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luftluuver
07-16-2007, 06:13 AM
Have been thinking about trying this game. Yes I know it is a pay-to-play but they do have a free trial period.

Am I wasting my time, and if so, why?

luftluuver
07-16-2007, 06:13 AM
Have been thinking about trying this game. Yes I know it is a pay-to-play but they do have a free trial period.

Am I wasting my time, and if so, why?

DmdSeeker
07-16-2007, 08:58 AM
It's a good game; with some drawbacks.

As a flight sim; it's as good as IL-2; with a very roughly similar plane set. In fact, as a piece of soft ware it's very impressive; it's amazing what they pack into the download and graphic card and joystick support is really top notch. You don't even need Track-ir or joystick software as the ingame profile and calibration regimes are that good (6 d.o.f. with Track ir; by the way)

The main arenas offer a "quake with wings" experience similar to DF servers, with the proviso that all sides have all the planes; all the time; so icons are an absolute must as a Spit or FW could be on any of the three sides.

The event arenas can be used by interest groups for recreations and virtual wars.

The down side:

1) The fora. Unless you're an American Republican don't even bother; you'll just get banned.
2) The main arena "all planes all the time" gets old (for me at least); I don't like attacking Lancs in a Spit.
3) Vox. AH enforces "range vox"; which means you're forced to hear every one whining about their girlfriends. I hated it.

I loved the software; didn't really like the company and hated the atmosphere on the fora. The main arenas got old and the company (at the time) didn't really seem to want to work with the volunteers that make the special arenas such as special events and war nights.

As software, it's much better than Air warrior or Warbirds ever was.

As a game; Airwarrior would knock it's socks off.

AKA_TAGERT
07-16-2007, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
1) The fora. Unless you're an American Republican don't even bother; you'll just get banned. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
NICE!

That would be a good thing in my book! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
3) Vox. AH enforces "range vox"; which means you're forced to hear every one whining about their girlfriends. I hated it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is what killed it for me..

NOTE I played Confirmed Kill which became Warbirds and than the makers of Warbirds sold it and they went off and made Aces High.. I played/paid them all and was one of the first users of Aces High.. Loved it.. But when IL2 came out.. I just stopped playing all of them for IL2.

But.. about a month ago I thought I would try that free trial period for Aces High.. At first glance it "looked" like it has not advanced graphically in years!

Than there was this kid sounded like his sac had not only NOT dropped but was stuck in his neck (read nails on a chalkbord) and he felt the need to give a play by play of every thing he was doing and thinking.. i.e.

I'm taking off now..
I'm turning left now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
Oooo look at that tree
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
Who is shooting at me?
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
Ill take out the trash in just a min mom Gosssh!
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
Did I feed the dog today?
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
I'm inhaling now..
I'm exhaling now..
Oh darn I crashed!

AAAAARUGH!

After about 5min of that I turned it off and never fired it up again!

Only thing worse than a kid like that is an adult that feels the need to "assume command" and tell folks how to have fun!

I hate games that dont allow me to choose who I have to listen to!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
As software, it's much better than Air warrior or Warbirds ever was.

As a game; Airwarrior would knock it's socks off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah AirWarrior.. good times.. version 1.0.. Black wire frames, hit bubbles the size of TX, and $12/hr to play it online! Thought we were getting a deal when the dropped the price from $12/hr to $6/hr! Problem was I just played twice a much! I recall getting a bill for $700 once! Good times! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WhtBoy
07-16-2007, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
As a game; Airwarrior would knock it's socks off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a very strange statement to me. I started my AW career in 1989 and AH is 50 times the game AW ever was. Huge plane set, an adequate armor set, very nice flight modeling, pretty cool combined arms (air/sea/armor), and very dynamic gameplay.

The voice comms in AH are nice with a tunable channel plus the range channel. It is true that, at times, the range channel does get crowded but a simple request to take it to a private channel has always worked for me.

Like you, my biggest gripe with AH is that every country has every plane available. Of course, the special events take care of that, although, I haven't done one in a long time.

My second biggest gripe is that they have bowed down to some gameplay compromises such as 3 axis trim on each plane, somewhat generic instrument panels, and friendly fire rebound. All in all though, I can live with those.

Add to that full 6DOF support and a huge player base and AH is well worth the $10/month.

--Outlaw.

Superluminal_8
07-16-2007, 11:50 AM
The H2H it´s free,only 8 player though,but I do play it from time to time.Get Mitsus sounds to replace the original ones if you get it.Real nice.

DmdSeeker
07-16-2007, 02:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WhtBoy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
As a game; Airwarrior would knock it's socks off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a very strange statement to me. I started my AW career in 1989 and AH is 50 times the game AW ever was. Huge plane set, an adequate armor set, very nice flight modeling, pretty cool combined arms (air/sea/armor), and very dynamic gameplay.

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every thing you say is true, and yet...

To be true; two of the best scenarios (god how I miss those! What are these IL-2 "virtual wars" I hear about?) I ever did were in AH; but that's exactly where it fell down for me.

In AW there was a feeling that the main arenas were for practise; Scenarios were where it was at.

In AH, the feeling is more that the main arenas are where it's at; and that special events are some thing which Hitech suffers as an evil necessity.

At least, that's how it felt as an event organiser.

I was always amazed with what we accomplished in AW; given the soft war limitations (but it had briefing rooms!) In AH; I was always irritated that the developers always had an attitude of "but it's perfect, it's just how I wanted it!" without listening to the event staff.

I know Dale has often said he thought the "community" too powerful in Warbirds, and it was a mistake he didn't want to repeat in his new game. I just think he went to far.

Nonetheless; to answer the original poster, it's a very good game, certainly the equal to (although different to) IL-2 in it's own way; I just prefer IL-2 at the moment.

crazyivan1970
07-16-2007, 03:14 PM
As a person that flew AH for several years, i can assure you, it is not flight sim. Sorry, this had to be said. As far as flight sim aspects go, it has nothing on IL2, not even close. But as far as MP goes, AH wins, no question there. Lets not get carried away, shall we http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I can safely say that AH loses in
FM
DM
Graphics
AI
Maps
SP

but

has better MP IMO.

That`s that.

zardozid
07-16-2007, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The down side:

1) The fora. Unless you're an American Republican don't even bother; you'll just get banned.
2) The main arena "all planes all the time" gets old (for me at least); I don't like attacking Lancs in a Spit.
3) Vox. AH enforces "range vox"; which means you're forced to hear every one whining about their girlfriends. I hated it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


"whiny ***** whipped right-wing republicans"...(I just had to clarify that in my mind by saying it out loud...) LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

WhtBoy
07-17-2007, 06:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
As a person that flew AH for several years, i can assure you, it is not flight sim. Sorry, this had to be said. As far as flight sim aspects go, it has nothing on IL2, not even close. But as far as MP goes, AH wins, no question there. Lets not get carried away, shall we http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I can safely say that AH loses in
FM
DM
Graphics
AI
Maps
SP

but

has better MP IMO.

That`s that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ivan,
AH was never designed for single play. Unless there is some module they have released that I didn't pay attention to, there is no AI at all.

As far as the flight model goes, there are differences but I wouldn't say that IL-2 outstrips it by much, especially in the low speed high AoA regime. Of course, that's not saying much b/c IL-2 absolutely $UCK$ in that regime. Also, low speed torque is brutal in AH. Jump in an F-4U, line up for take-off, and firewall the throttle to see what I mean.

The aircraft are a little more generic in AH but, they are looking for a bigger market and have, sadly, made those decisions.

I don't see how you can possibly say the DM in AH is weaker than IL-2. At least in AH the instruments indicate that there is damage. In IL-2 they are meaningless. Also, I've never had a single landing gear fail to lower in IL-2 (except when it's been knocked off). I have heard of gear being shot out but in all the hundreds of times I've brought a heavily damaged plane back to base it's always had both gear. They haven't always lowered but NEVER has just ONE lowered. I've had just about every possible combination of systems shot up/out in AH.

The terrain is a bit bland but geez, it's a combat sim, and an old one at that. At least I can say that, as far as I can recall, I've never flown through a tree in AH. I've hit many, but it was with disastrous results.

As far as MP goes, they can't even be compared. IL-2 doesn't just lose in this area, it can't even field a team.

--Outlaw.

Xiolablu3
07-17-2007, 09:35 AM
I find it really hard to believe that you think IL2 has a poor multiplayer.

I absolutely love it.

EDCF_Rama
07-17-2007, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WhtBoy:
Also, I've never had a single landing gear fail to lower in IL-2 (except when it's been knocked off). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have.... Got damaged in an IL10, and landing gear refused to lower when back on base.
I had to use manual gear (like in I16) to lower it.

3.JG51_BigBear
07-17-2007, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WhtBoy:
Also, I've never had a single landing gear fail to lower in IL-2 (except when it's been knocked off). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have.... Got damaged in an IL10, and landing gear refused to lower when back on base.
I had to use manual gear (like in I16) to lower it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had that happen in a P-51 once.

DmdSeeker
07-17-2007, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I find it really hard to believe that you think IL2 has a poor multiplayer.

I absolutely love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Imagine a three sided arena.

Side 1 = RAF
Side 2 = LW
Side 2 = RAF fighter controllers.

Niether the RAF nor the LW have radar (map icons) but the fighter controllers do. However, all they see is red dots; they can't tell plane type nor altitude; just position.

There were about 150 flying RAF; the LW was staffed by a proportionate number.

Vox was _very_ busy.

Each frame lasted for two hours or more; and if I remeber right there were six frames.

That's a lot of organisation and involvement. And we were doing stuff like that 10 years ago in Air Warrior.

Compared to that sort of thing IL-2 has a long way to go.

Can any one tell me more of these on-line wars in IL-2? My online experience has been DF servers and the odd co-op mission with my squad. It could be nice to get involved with something again.

WhtBoy
07-17-2007, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I find it really hard to believe that you think IL2 has a poor multiplayer.

I absolutely love it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not just poor, it's awful.

I can handle the no AI aircraft in DF servers but the inability to put multiple players in crew positions is awful. Other "awfuls" include the inability to end the game except based on time (without 3rd party applications), the inability of ground objects to do anything but fire, and the inability to limit the loadout of aircraft (3rd party application work around is pretty poor).

Co-Op servers suffer from the inability to join while a mission is in progress and the inability to run in dedicated mode.

As I said, IL-2 MP is a joke compared to AH. AH has huge numbers of players, real tactical (and some limited strategic) goals, and the ability to cooperate with ground forces in the taking of an objective be it city, airfield, or garage. Add in player controlled CAGs, ship based batteries, shore based batteries, and anti-aircraft positions and it's not even a contest.

Not that it's not fun at times, but it leaves much to be desired. The only server available with decent settings and enough players to make it fun is War Clouds, but, for all intents and purposes, it never changes. Sure the distance and heading to target are different but that's basically it. Note that I'm not knocking Sparx. He has it setup that way b/c of the limits of the software and the fact that 99% of the community won't play if they can't get their favorite ride.

Short of when a squad joins en-masse, the largest group of people I've seen working together is 5 or 6. Some might say that the solution is to join a squad but even during peak times a squad joining en-masse will skew the numbers so badly it will be a joke..


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EDCF_Rama:
I have.... Got damaged in an IL10, and landing gear refused to lower when back on base.
I had to use manual gear (like in I16) to lower it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mean "never" happened, I meant ONE (single) landing gear not coming down, while the other one does. Sorry for the confusion.


--Outlaw.

EDCF_Rama
07-17-2007, 01:32 PM
If your online experience on IL2 is limited to DF serveurs (and IMHO, there are some better than War clouds), I can understand you find MP awful.

but MP is far to be limited to DF servers. There are plenty of private online wars (using DCG or other generators or manual online campaigns), HL onlines wars like AW, and even from time to time some special online Wars like CF (limited to groups of squads)
It's tons of fun, of immersion (you fight the right planes for the side and epoch on the right maps)... the only drawback being that you have to wait a bit (usually around 30 mn before each game).
This what make this game fun for me. Would it be only made of DF servers, I would have quit since long time.

Also for a plane damage with one landing gear comming down and not the other... I also got that once or two... just don't remenber plane and circomstances.

I don't know AH.... it's probably a lot of fun (even if I would probably hate totally non-historical background)).... but I'm sure you don't know everything that IL2 MP can offer.
I play almost every evening since IL2 started... and I'm still surprised from time to time by new inventions, new form of online wars, new style, etc....

Xiolablu3
07-17-2007, 01:43 PM
I totally disagree.

IL2 is my favourite online game by far.

I have played it for around 2 years now none stop with a few breaks in between.

Not really what you would call a 'joke'.

Its fricking amazing.

Coops have AI planes, 350 flyable planes to add to the planesets. Spans all periods of WW2. Have you ever flown RNZOLIS coop server?

I certianly wouldnt want 'all planes for all sides'. WHat abouy Axis vs Allies in historical maps?

I can only think maybe you just havent explored IL2 totally.

My favourite gaming experinces by far have been flying IL2 online.

Wurkeri
07-17-2007, 02:00 PM
IMHO the gameplay is pretty good in the AH as well as flight modeling. It does not look as good as Il-2 but after a bit playing you won't note it anymore. Plane set is not as large as in the Il-2 (Il-2 has Brewster). If you play a lot it's probably worth of the monthly payment, but if you play quite little (like me) the payment is probably too much.

Regarding the fora; earlier there was quite weak moderation and personal attacks etc. were common, however, one day they choosed to have more strick moderation and started to permamently ban persons who continously violated forum rules. Nowadays, it's IMHO pretty good forum.