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luftluuver
10-09-2006, 04:11 AM
For those that believe that Dulias is the real McCoy, check out the LW victory list on this site, http://www.luftwaffe.cz/1945.html

Do you see any of his claims listed?

Hoarmurath
10-09-2006, 04:45 AM
Well, probably because the author of this website haven't put them on those pdf...

On the other hand, he have put a victory for klaus faber that was not only not confirmed, but unclaimed.

This document is not a proof of anything concerning luftwaffe victories. Dulias claims could have been on that document, and it would have proven nothing either.

This document could be useful for someone doing serious research, by pointing to the sources for some claims.

But at least you have proven something, you have just proven that you are ready to believe anything written on the internet, as long as it suit your bias.

NagaSadow84
10-09-2006, 05:16 AM
Those lists aren't complete.

luftluuver
10-09-2006, 05:50 AM
You Hoarmurath, have shown that you will believe anything as well.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess some of the Dulias fanbois should get in contact with Tony Woods (for the Spitfire claims) and the author of the site and supply details of Dulias' claims to update the pdf files. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Notice that no I-16s are listed either. Guess Dulias shot down the only and last remaining I-16s at the front. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hoarmurath
10-09-2006, 07:20 AM
I don't believe anything about dulias, and honestly, i don't care.

I just point that it is not because someone have decided to put some kind of list on the internet that it become true, all by virtue of being on the web.

But i like how you take this page for an absolute proof of anything, really. I presume that if the same guys come with a similar hand made list of victories where they will forget all of Bader, Johnson, or Bong victories, all of a sudden these pilots will become fake, just by virtue of the mighty power of truth of anything posted on the internet.

The most fun part is thinking that while you believe what this website say, you don't believe anything that kurfust say, even though it is written on the web. Maybe you will share with us what make this website an absolute truth?

LEBillfish
10-09-2006, 08:30 AM
what's a dulias? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

KIMURA
10-09-2006, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
what's a dulias? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif click here LEBillfish (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5451045084/p/1)

luftluuver
10-09-2006, 03:24 PM
Hoarmurath

with other other proofs it is relevent.

I should also add the H. Lipfert makes no references to any I-16s in his book in early 1945. One would think that other members of the JG would have seen or claimed some I-16s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

MB_Avro_UK
10-09-2006, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
Hoarmurath

with other other proofs it is relevent.

I should also add the H. Lipfert makes no references to any I-16s in his book in early 1945. One would think that other members of the JG would have seen or claimed some I-16s. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I am half way through reading 'Helmut Lipfert JG52 on the Russian Front 1943-45'. Is this the book you mention?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Waldo.Pepper
10-09-2006, 05:28 PM
I thought Jochen Prien's post on the 12o'clockhighforum on July 25th, 2005 was rather persuasive.

Hoarmurath
10-09-2006, 06:33 PM
Prien's commentary expressed doubts about it, but i haven't read anything categoric from mister Prien.

I'm certainly not more competent than mister Prien on the subject of JG53 history, so i don't see how i could have any certainty about this either.

I think that some people need a reality check, they are certainly not going to expose mister Dulias as a fraud with their wikipedia level knowledge of ww2 history in general, and about luftwaffe history in particular. Having an internet connection and an inflated ego isn't enough to make an historian.

What Luuftlover have proven here, if there was something that needed to be proven, is that as an historian, even an amateur one, he is seriously lacking. The website he presented as some indisputable proof is definitely on the level of wikipedia knowledge. When i read the sources cited for some of these "victories" claims, i can only smile. I didn't knew that "experten decals" was such an indisputable source of ww2 luftwaffe knowledge.