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View Full Version : DRIVEABLE TANK ADD-ON IN PATCH 4.05m



traceshot
03-13-2006, 07:54 AM
So, now I have attention !

I think I would love a basic tank-model to be included into the game.

Some people could choose a tank, drive it to enemy base and try to do some damage there.

Others who want to stop the tanks, either have to fly a fighter with a heavy bomb, or have to fly planes like IL2's. I don't see any reason to fly an IL2 in this game.

This would be a lot of fun, and make this game even more playable and give it excellent addictive value.

In terms of modelling: very simple. Just use a plane model and give it a 100 HP engine, simple turret and simple machine gun. Add a lot of drag, and max speed is limited to 30-40 km/h.
Armour would need to be increased for sure.

Then release this whole package as the IL2 Tank Battle GOLD bundle with 3-5 modelled tanks.

That would be so cool!

Capt.LoneRanger
03-13-2006, 08:21 AM
Okay, quick calculation.

Common internet-server has bases with at least 10min flight between bases. 10 min at 400-500 kph.

Now, how long would it take to reach the enemy base in a tank with, maybe 30kph, which is very optimistic cross-land. So, how long do you want to drive?

Monson74
03-13-2006, 08:44 AM
Touché http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

jamesdietz
03-13-2006, 10:16 AM
Tisk-tisk,,you should have asked "How long do you want to drive before you are killed by death from above??"

JG10r_Bull
03-13-2006, 10:27 AM
this a fight sim NOT TANK SIM http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-13-2006, 10:29 AM
No, jamesdietz, if it was possible, the time to the enemy airfield would be sufficient to know. (my calculation is above 2hours, btw.).
It would be so much fun to kill that tank just 50m out of firing distance to the airfield http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Capt.England
03-13-2006, 11:10 AM
In a P.C. Pilot interview with Oleg, He did mention that `MAYBE` he would add a driveable tank.

Now who's laughing? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

cmw1980
03-13-2006, 11:44 AM
Perhaps it is a bad idea, but it could be fun don't you think? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

pdog1
03-13-2006, 12:13 PM
Don't be an arse. Just make spawn points for tanks closer to the base like 5km instead of 40km.

Viper2005_
03-13-2006, 12:31 PM
and watch the Ju-87Gs or P-38s set up camp...

x6BL_Brando
03-13-2006, 12:50 PM
Just before it went tits-up the Warbirds sim introduced driveable tanks. Six months later it was practically gone as a major online flight-sim. People flocked to IL2-Sturmovik in droves, totally unimpressed by tanks.

In my opinion this is a flight-sim and needs to remain so.

DuxCorvan
03-13-2006, 12:59 PM
How about manned AAA? It could be something to do for the bored ones prematurely dead in coops...

Vipez-
03-13-2006, 01:04 PM
I don't think you would like to drive that Tiger, when P-51s strike in with their .50s.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

WWMaxGunz
03-13-2006, 01:45 PM
Exactly as Vipez above, only 'a litte thing' that would turn into a big thing.

Oleg, my tank gun is undermodelled. It is 76mm, should be 76.2mm, I have documents.
Oleg, the tank interior is not right. Oleg, the tank is too slow on road and too fast
on rough ground. Oleg, the AI tank crew is not taking orders right. Oleg, the T-34
is too strong. Oleg the T-34 is too fast. Oleg, why aren't German tanks superior?
Oleg, we have to have individual infantry to attack the tanks with. Oleg, the HE does
not destroy trucks right. Oleg, blah blah, blah, blah. Oleg, you must model the tank
I want, there was 40 or 50 used, it's not historic without them. O-leeegggggg!!!!!

That is what we'd have to look forward to, and more. Did that tank ever carry APDS
and just how many before this or that date, or after and other armor minutiae.

How about a discussion of turning circles and the chance of throwing a track? Oh no,
gotta have the little men fix the track! Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!

So why does Oleg not have driveable vehicles and ships? Is it the scope or the need
for months and months of work only to be ragged at over a minor gift for players turned
into Yet Another Make or Break Feature?

rosaenrico
03-13-2006, 01:59 PM
Well, i can't see any bad if there would be a driveable (basic) tank in the game: if you like to use them, in a duel or against AI, you could; if you like a pure flight sim, this tank wouldn' t affect the FM or DM of aircrafts in any manner.

jamesdietz
03-13-2006, 02:12 PM
Viper 2005 :Are you forgetting about our new elegant Tempest or even the real tank killer the Sturmovik...and Rosaenrico...the only "tank " that might stand a ghost of a chance dueling with aircraft might be a German MkIV with Whirbelwind install or the lowly American half track with quad 50s..other tanks are dead meat...

rosaenrico
03-13-2006, 02:32 PM
I meant driven tank against driven tank http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ImpStarDuece
03-13-2006, 02:37 PM
It would have benefits: the return of the Sturmoviks anf Ju-87Gs to the skies in vast numbers.

But on the whole, I feel its a pretty ridiclous idea:

1. The ground terrain is set up for a flight sim. Tanks would keep driving into the invisible woods and BOOM. They would have almost 0 cover and/or concealment.

2. The amount of work a 3/4/5 man tank with cupola up/down, sight and periscope positions for the driver, commander and/or gunner, would be equavilent to getting a fully flyable 5 crew twin engined bomber in the game. One driveable tank would tanke 6 months just to make, let alone implement into the game.

3. The armour model in the game may not be set up to deal with the vaguaries of angled vs slope armour, blunt vs sharp nosed projectiles, heat warheads, weakend armour areas, grills, exhausts, track or turret damage. You need a tank sim for that, not a flight sim

Warbirds, Aces High and WW2online have shown that the ground/air interaction models currently available are pretty thin. What you need is a game, specifically designed from the ground up, to model tank vs tanks and aircraft vs tank combat.

I also think that if the effectiveness of aerial rockets and guns on tanks was similar to that of real life, the volume of whining on this forums would make a steam turbine seem low pitched.

cygfrain
03-13-2006, 04:01 PM
There has been more than one occasion when flying in forums where vulching is permitted, and when it is impossible to take off, that I have wished I could man an anti-aircraft gun. Warbirds III had a half-track with a four barrelled (20mm or 30mm?)gun which could be moved about the field and fired when required.

I think this would be a good addition to IL2 and BOB.

Has Warbirds really fallen over, I thought it was still going?

Troll2k
03-13-2006, 05:00 PM
IL2 is a flight sim.Not a WWII sim.If you want to drive tanks go play Battlefield 2

Treetop64
03-13-2006, 05:29 PM
I think that may sound like a good idea on paper. However, once a couple of hundered guys in tanks get blasted to kingdom come for the up-teenth time by marauding aircraft, the novelty of driving a tank in a sim infested with aircraft primed to blow stuff up on the ground (i.e. armored vehicles) will start to wear off, me thinks...

Hell, I'd fly more attack missions online just so I can say, "Hey, stupid!" to all the gluttons for punishment who chose to ride in steel coffins!

Come to think of it, that would be a lot of fun. You know, that's a great idea after all! Bring on the drivable tanks!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Gibbage1
03-13-2006, 05:32 PM
I would not mind hopping into a AAA station for base defense, but driving a lumbering tank around a flight sim does not sound all that interesting. I doubt it would be of any use. Hell, the AI shoots down aircraft with tank cannons, they would rape a slow moving human tank miles away!

FritzGryphon
03-13-2006, 06:20 PM
I agree, AAA in the same vein as the sitting TB-3 of doom would be lots of fun, and practical.

Vulching as we know it would be crushed in one fell swoop, if people could man flakvierlings. I promise you, no one would comlain about AI flak being 'too good' ever again!

Bartolomeo_ita
03-13-2006, 06:33 PM
i wanna drive a motorbike! gimme it gimme it oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Heavy_Metal1982
03-13-2006, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Bartolomeo_ita:
i wanna drive a motorbike! gimme it gimme it oleg! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Oooo Just like Steve McQueen!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

rushworth1
03-13-2006, 07:29 PM
Actually Wrbirds has tanks and has for some time, not belly up yet. Tank fights were great fun and made for excellent ground sorties for planes who had to find them. Took about 20 mins to travel to a base but worked well.

rushworth1
03-13-2006, 07:33 PM
Warbirds aso has anti-aircraft guns you could man, was great fun too. Also available was the opportunity to scan the field from the control tower before going to the field in plane. This gave the realism to the game where you could watch a fight or choose when was best to enter plane rather than simply appearing on the field as we have to do now. Interesting.

LEBillfish
03-13-2006, 07:37 PM
I think they should have them..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif


Naturally then I'll be forced to park my Ki-61 and start flying an IL2 again....Wonder if they'd call me a vulcher http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

strewth
03-13-2006, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Troll2k:
IL2 is a flight sim.Not a WWII sim.If you want to drive tanks go play Battlefield 2

Errr http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Idon't think Battlefield 2 is WWII http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

However Battlefield 1942 is and I play it, but the AC really leave alot to be desired http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Hey. They also had a go at it in CFS2 from memory.

vonStahlhelm
03-13-2006, 08:52 PM
if i remind that right, 1c is in developement of an realtime strategie game, based on a improved il2 engine, battlefield command or so was the name. if anyone wants do drive or command tanks he should wait to the release of this game. il2 needs no driving tanks, i think.

slo_1_2_3
03-13-2006, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Okay, quick calculation.

Common internet-server has bases with at least 10min flight between bases. 10 min at 400-500 kph.

Now, how long would it take to reach the enemy base in a tank with, maybe 30kph, which is very optimistic cross-land. So, how long do you want to drive?

hey have you heard of the flying tank?

slo_1_2_3
03-13-2006, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Troll2k:
IL2 is a flight sim.Not a WWII sim.If you want to drive tanks go play Battlefield 2
its not a ww2 sim eh? what virtual war are we fighting then ? i need to know.

pdog1
03-13-2006, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Vipez-:
I don't think you would like to drive that Tiger, when P-51s strike in with their .50s.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHA
I would hate to be inside KV-1 when Emil comes in and blow it up with glorious mingelshoss MG-FF shells

Lerxster
03-14-2006, 02:18 AM
If you want to drive tanks then play wwiionline (http://www.wwiionline.com)

Totally immersive ww2 battlefield...

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2006, 02:24 AM
slo_1_2_3, you mean something like this?

http://www.dldproductions.com/images/15mmcivet.jpg

I doubt they had that in WW2 - and the only thing deserving that name besides that is this ugly baby
http://k43.pbase.com/u37/kissiskickass/upload/40226625.a10.jpg

And it wasn't there in WW2 either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

vpmedia
03-14-2006, 03:38 AM
I like the idea to have the human operated aa guns on airfields in online mode.

Fehler
03-14-2006, 04:24 AM
I wonder if the tanks would automatically explode if they touched the pancake trees. I am convinced that delta wood is made from these trees!

jimDG
03-14-2006, 06:57 AM
Cool idea actually. Sort-a full real "Battlefield". You could have a map where you jump in a tank just a click away from the target, and have the tanks battle it between themselves while the planes try to intervene.

jimDG
03-14-2006, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
I think that may sound like a good idea on paper. However, once a couple of hundered guys in tanks get blasted to kingdom come for the up-teenth time by marauding aircraft, the novelty of driving a tank in a sim infested with aircraft primed to blow stuff up on the ground (i.e. armored vehicles) will start to wear off, me thinks...

Hell, I'd fly more attack missions online just so I can say, "Hey, stupid!" to all the gluttons for punishment who chose to ride in steel coffins!

Come to think of it, that would be a lot of fun. You know, that's a great idea after all! Bring on the drivable tanks!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

If every 5 Pathers are accompanied by a humble 4x20mm AAA Wilberwind (human operated drivable AAA) than most p-51/p-47 would start having second thoughts about attacking those.

BM357_TinMan
03-14-2006, 07:25 AM
same thing as I posted in the infamous "trim" thread by sarah...

sheesh people.

carguy_
03-14-2006, 10:21 AM
Well if there`s anythin wrong with IL2 it`s the land combat.

A medium tank will beat a light tank,a heavy tank will always beat a medium tank.A T34 will always beat PanzerIII/IV.A Tiger will always beat a T38 and so on.

This is best seen in online wars where ground combat seems to influence the frontline advance the most.In `42 VVS get T34 and advance 30km/day because one T34 usually beats 4PzIII attacking the camp/base.
Similar,in `45 Tigers make German lines very hard to break and Soviet camps are normally done for.
The influence of air combat is much too small.Even with complete air superiority the enemy advance can not be put to a stop.
Unless it`s a direct hit,a T34 will not be destroyed by a 250kg bomb exploding in immediate vicinity.

Add to that planes with ShVak easily destroy light/medium German tanks whereas Russian medium/heavy tanks are 20mm proof.

TC_Stele
03-14-2006, 10:21 AM
I'm all for tanks in the this sim. I want nothing more than having snot nosed kids joining a game and jumping in tanks that they believe won the war single handedly, only to blow them away with a well blaced 500lb bomb. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Vipez-
03-14-2006, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by pdog1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vipez-:
I don't think you would like to drive that Tiger, when P-51s strike in with their .50s.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHA
I would hate to be inside KV-1 when Emil comes in and blow it up with glorious mingelshoss MG-FF shells </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Haha, KV-1 would not longer be KV-1 Akbar, when Emil dives for the attack http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Lucius_Esox
03-14-2006, 11:15 AM
Hmmm, anything that takes away from the focusing on making this what it is, i.e. a GREAT flight sim is not a good idea imho. Water it down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

It is a shame really because if there was enough passion and commitment it would be awesome to have tanks and infantry involved, modelled with the same eye for accuracy as the rest of the sim.

Can you just imagine how much resources that would take http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Apart from the fact you might need a s/ware business the size of Microsoft to develop it can you imagine the kit needed to run it. I'm talking about doing it with Olegs eye for realism lolol,,, can only dream.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

russ.nl
03-14-2006, 12:14 PM
Plz people, just keep it a ww2 FLIGHT simulator!

These kind of games will come in the future.

blindpugh
03-14-2006, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Just before it went tits-up the Warbirds sim introduced driveable tanks. Six months later it was practically gone as a major online flight-sim. People flocked to IL2-Sturmovik in droves, totally unimpressed by tanks.

In my opinion this is a flight-sim and needs to remain so. too right m8 let the tankies go to steel beasts-or panzers II

blindpugh
03-14-2006, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Exactly as Vipez above, only 'a litte thing' that would turn into a big thing.

Oleg, my tank gun is undermodelled. It is 76mm, should be 76.2mm, I have documents.
Oleg, the tank interior is not right. Oleg, the tank is too slow on road and too fast
on rough ground. Oleg, the AI tank crew is not taking orders right. Oleg, the T-34
is too strong. Oleg the T-34 is too fast. Oleg, why aren't German tanks superior?
Oleg, we have to have individual infantry to attack the tanks with. Oleg, the HE does
not destroy trucks right. Oleg, blah blah, blah, blah. Oleg, you must model the tank
I want, there was 40 or 50 used, it's not historic without them. O-leeegggggg!!!!!

That is what we'd have to look forward to, and more. Did that tank ever carry APDS
and just how many before this or that date, or after and other armor minutiae.

How about a discussion of turning circles and the chance of throwing a track? Oh no,
gotta have the little men fix the track! Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!

So why does Oleg not have driveable vehicles and ships? Is it the scope or the need
for months and months of work only to be ragged at over a minor gift for players turned
into Yet Another Make or Break Feature? Have a heart m8 they are only little kids who cant afford a tank game on their pocket money HEHEHE

blindpugh
03-14-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
It would have benefits: the return of the Sturmoviks anf Ju-87Gs to the skies in vast numbers.

But on the whole, I feel its a pretty ridiclous idea:

1. The ground terrain is set up for a flight sim. Tanks would keep driving into the invisible woods and BOOM. They would have almost 0 cover and/or concealment.

2. The amount of work a 3/4/5 man tank with cupola up/down, sight and periscope positions for the driver, commander and/or gunner, would be equavilent to getting a fully flyable 5 crew twin engined bomber in the game. One driveable tank would tanke 6 months just to make, let alone implement into the game.

3. The armour model in the game may not be set up to deal with the vaguaries of angled vs slope armour, blunt vs sharp nosed projectiles, heat warheads, weakend armour areas, grills, exhausts, track or turret damage. You need a tank sim for that, not a flight sim

Warbirds, Aces High and WW2online have shown that the ground/air interaction models currently available are pretty thin. What you need is a game, specifically designed from the ground up, to model tank vs tanks and aircraft vs tank combat.

I also think that if the effectiveness of aerial rockets and guns on tanks was similar to that of real life, the volume of whining on this forums would make a steam turbine seem low pitched. Dont get involved m8-only an idiot-or child would want a tank in a flight sim-

blindpugh
03-14-2006, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by cygfrain:
There has been more than one occasion when flying in forums where vulching is permitted, and when it is impossible to take off, that I have wished I could man an anti-aircraft gun. Warbirds III had a half-track with a four barrelled (20mm or 30mm?)gun which could be moved about the field and fired when required.

I think this would be a good addition to IL2 and BOB.

Has Warbirds really fallen over, I thought it was still going? Please go home and play with your little plastic tanks

Lodovik
03-14-2006, 02:10 PM
Virtual Battlefields with dynamic 24/7 campaigns with multiple human players & independent AI waited since at least 1984 been have.
Even though the Force strong in this sim series is, seems the world not yet for such ready is, Young Padawans... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

fordfan25
03-14-2006, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
How about manned AAA? It could be something to do for the bored ones prematurely dead in coops... yes

Chuck_Older
03-14-2006, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by traceshot:
So, now I have attention !

I think I would love a basic tank-model to be included into the game.

Some people could choose a tank, drive it to enemy base and try to do some damage there.

Others who want to stop the tanks, either have to fly a fighter with a heavy bomb, or have to fly planes like IL2's. I don't see any reason to fly an IL2 in this game.

This would be a lot of fun, and make this game even more playable and give it excellent addictive value.

In terms of modelling: very simple. Just use a plane model and give it a 100 HP engine, simple turret and simple machine gun. Add a lot of drag, and max speed is limited to 30-40 km/h.
Armour would need to be increased for sure.

Then release this whole package as the IL2 Tank Battle GOLD bundle with 3-5 modelled tanks.

That would be so cool!

Hi. "Addictive value"? "Make this game even more playable"?

This is nonsense. I know a lot of people don't like it when I post like this, but I'm not going to lie to you, I don't beleive in it, and I won't do you the dis-service of deceiving you. That is nonsense. I'll hear from a lot of folks about how I'm mean. I don't mind at all, but I'm telling you that this stuff is perfect gibberish
*****
"I don't see any reason to fly an Il-2 in this game" and "In terms of modelling: very simple. Just use a plane model and give it a 100 HP engine, simple turret and simple machine gun. Add a lot of drag, and max speed is limited to 30-40 km/h."

Of course this makes sense to you; you aren't a simmer, you're a gamer. The Il-2 doesn't interest you, so it's worthless to everyone. Adding a turret and restricting speeds for a general purpose vehicle is simple for you to conceive
*****

"That would be so cool"

You need to play a game you like...this isn't a bash, but you're a gamer, you want explosions and great variety instead of accurate modelling and efforts to recreate real things with accuracy. Operation:Flashpoint is still available, try Amazon.com, then download some of the very excellent (and cool) WWII mods for it. You'll be able to drive a Tiger tank, hop out, steal a B-17, drop bombs on Berlin, parachute out, and kill Hitler with a silenced tommygun

And please everyone, don't get on me about this, I ain't in the mood for BS. I do a lot of things like help new guys and whatnot, but I'm not paid to smell cow patties and tell everyone it's a rosebed. When I agree with folks, I tell them it's a good idea. When I don't think it's a good idea, I tell them why. This is dumb. A bad bad idea. Dumbing down the sim is stupid, and that's what this is all about- making the sim more gee-whiz and bumper-car generic. As a matter of fact, I'm coining the term 'bumper-car modelling' right now, to describe shoddy and thrown-together modelling in a sim. <span class="ev_code_PINK">Just say NO to bumper-car modelling!</span>

VF-51-Dart
03-14-2006, 03:40 PM
Jeez. This is a flight sim. Let's leave it that way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TX-Zen
03-14-2006, 03:42 PM
Well said Chuck (no offense to the original poster)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Jumoschwanz
03-14-2006, 03:46 PM
I think it would be great to have a driveable tank in this sim. I have thought about it often when I have been taxiing a bomber around and jump in a turrent while doing so. No difference really.

I have even landed bombers close to enemy bases and jumped in the turrets and sniped out aaa and planes taking off and landing. Sure they shot the krap out of me in short order. But I had fun.
All a tank would be in this sim is a plane model, with no wings or lift, yes horsepower or speed limited, and the turret could be modeled just like a bombers turret with the same controls.

In an online server you would not drive long distances because you would be set to spawn by a battle at the front, or your base to cover your field, your choice. It would also be your choice if you did want to drive for hourse to some remote point. On a full-real server, you would have a good chance to hide from aircraft, and dodge their shots by running behind buildings and such.
Entirely and easily doable, and yes lets be able to man the AAA also, and maybe even ships and the turrents on them. If someone wants to volunteer the time to do the modeling and all the work, and all Oleg and crew would have to do is compile it in the sime and test it, it may happen someday.

Jumoschwanz

VF-51-Dart
03-14-2006, 04:22 PM
If you guys want that kind of action go check out WWIIOnline. This is supposed to be a FLIGHT SIMULATION. Notice the key word here guys? FLIGHT! Not tank. Not car. Not AAA Gunner. Not ship. Not train. Not a FPS soldier. It's a bloody FLIGHT SIM, and a damn fine one too in my experience!

El Turo
03-14-2006, 04:34 PM
Yes, quite so. Go check out WWII Online if you're at all interested in tanks, infantry, ATGs and all the other manable goodies. IL2 is great because it sticks to what it does best.. be a kick *** dedicated flight sim.

Taylortony
03-14-2006, 05:36 PM
Jeez you will be wanting deer next http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AVG_WarHawk
03-14-2006, 05:38 PM
HHHmmm, Tanks?
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/AVG_WarHawk/pig_eating_lg_nwm.gif

Taylortony
03-14-2006, 05:44 PM
Here you go best of both parts of the sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/102793.jpg

El Turo
03-14-2006, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
Jeez you will be wanting deer next http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Was it in the old Jane's products that had the deer and some other oddball props that could be put into scenario maps? I seem to recall in a moment of lunacy creating a mad cow map in which the enemy's every last deer had to be eliminated for victory. Hehe..

DoubleTap2005A
03-15-2006, 04:08 AM
Having both played WWII online for a bit, and Battlefield 1942 quite a hell of a lot, I gotta say the idea is intriguing, but impractical.

As someone pointed out early in the thread, the average distance needed to drive overland in a map is LONG. If I remember correctly, each large square is 10km, and even the desert map (one of the smallest) is what, 5 squares wide? Add to that the average tank can do under 30km an hour ON ROADS, it will take you a hell of a long time to get there. Time is DEATH for you average player, IMHO. Most people have too many demands on their time and they can better afford (on average) to buy better hardware than they have time to use it.

Playing mixed forces is ALOT of fun. I would not have play BF1942 for so long it were not. The attraction for WWII online was that on such a large battlefield, you can REALLY think tactically, strategically and surprise the HELL out of someone.

One of the best times I had on WWIIO was when I spawned with an 37mm AT gun, and dragged it out of the base and set up alongside a road behind a hedgerow. Wouldn't you know, not soon after I hear the rumble of a tank from beyond, and this panzer comes rumbling down the road. He cleared the hedge, and apparently never saw me as I pumped rounds into him. First I drove him off the road, then knocked his tread off, then I took him out. Another time I ran for quite a while outside of a town under seige by the Germans. By sneaking up at a crawl, I was able to suprise a German crew setting up an 88 to use against our base. Took out my pistol and BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! Sorry Fritz! THAT WAS FUN!

The downside is that you don't always have action that quickly. You may have to wait or run or drive a long while for ANYTHING to happen, and when it does, you can be dead in a second.

BF 1942 solved this problem by making much smaller maps to fight on. While there was still some room to maneuver and surprise people, getting into the fight was never more than a minute of two away. Even though you tended to die ALOT, especially in a small, intense firefight, you could come back in quickly. I think that also fostered more of a teamplay attitude.

The only way to make this even remotely practical for IL2 or BOB would be this:

Each map would have a "battlezone", not just a front. The battlezone would most likely be no more than 1 square large, and land unit spawn points would exist in the adjacent squares. Ground units spawn in their rally squares, and move toward the objective. If you WANT to drive around the long way for a surprise, you can, but within 20 square km there should be sufficient room to maneuver.

Planes spawn or begin as per normal airfields, as they will typically take as long or less time to reach the area of contention than others.

What can help make it work is that the planes can attack the ground forces directly, or they can attack objects in the spawn points. By taking out a certain number (and/or certain types) of ground objects, you limit what can spawn there, and how often, similar to WWIIO.

Anyway, that's how I would do it to maximize the playability.

cygfrain
03-15-2006, 08:10 AM
A couple of statements first:-

I don't want to drive tanks or engage in online tank battles.

I'm not against vulching if its clear that a forum permits it, after all vulching went on in real life (i.e. allied's attacks on Me262s during the later's landing approaches).

I said earlier that I would like the opportunity to use AA when the enemy's presence over an airfield makes it impossible to get into the air. The vehicle, a half track with bofors or oerlicons (or some axis equivalent) would allow the user to either drive it anywhere within the perimeter of the field or use the gun at a seperate gunner's station.

Any a/c brought down is worth 100 unless the vehicles is damaged at the same time and any vehicle destroyed is worth 100 if the pilot get back in one piece.

If the program permits the host of any forum could limit the number of manned vehicles per airfield to stop too many people choosing the option when flying is difficult.

On a couple of ocassions, during one of their free week ends, I've tried out this scenario in Warbirds III and it was quite enjoyable extra.

foxyboy1964
03-15-2006, 08:19 AM
**** tanks!

diabloblanco1
03-15-2006, 08:38 AM
This kind of request was inevitable. In a day when you have all of these WW2 games where you can fly,drive and be and infantrymen. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Having said that, it would be the end of the IL2 "sim game" days and the death of the series.

Heres an idea, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif how about spending time fixing some of the porked features in FM and DM of the "planes"? Afterall, this is a "FLIGHT SIM", or is it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

mortoma
03-15-2006, 09:39 AM
Aren't there any old Air Warrior fliers in here??
I used to play online Air warrior back about 1996 and 97. They had ground vehicles you could drive
and shoot stuff up in. It was great fun, not a detraction from the game at all.

zjulik
03-15-2006, 10:03 AM
How `bout a golf addon? Landing a 400 yard putt on Iwo Jima amidst screaming Zero bullets - now that would be fun.

So many beautiful maps and scenery, and nothin to do on Sundayshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Heck, a good drive could even take out a Glad or two.

traceshot
03-15-2006, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by traceshot:
So, now I have attention !

I think I would love a basic tank-model to be included into the game.

Some people could choose a tank, drive it to enemy base and try to do some damage there.

Others who want to stop the tanks, either have to fly a fighter with a heavy bomb, or have to fly planes like IL2's. I don't see any reason to fly an IL2 in this game.

This would be a lot of fun, and make this game even more playable and give it excellent addictive value.

In terms of modelling: very simple. Just use a plane model and give it a 100 HP engine, simple turret and simple machine gun. Add a lot of drag, and max speed is limited to 30-40 km/h.
Armour would need to be increased for sure.

Then release this whole package as the IL2 Tank Battle GOLD bundle with 3-5 modelled tanks.

That would be so cool!

Hi. "Addictive value"? "Make this game even more playable"?

This is nonsense. I know a lot of people don't like it when I post like this, but I'm not going to lie to you, I don't beleive in it, and I won't do you the dis-service of deceiving you. That is nonsense. I'll hear from a lot of folks about how I'm mean. I don't mind at all, but I'm telling you that this stuff is perfect gibberish
*****
"I don't see any reason to fly an Il-2 in this game" and "In terms of modelling: very simple. Just use a plane model and give it a 100 HP engine, simple turret and simple machine gun. Add a lot of drag, and max speed is limited to 30-40 km/h."

Of course this makes sense to you; you aren't a simmer, you're a gamer. The Il-2 doesn't interest you, so it's worthless to everyone. Adding a turret and restricting speeds for a general purpose vehicle is simple for you to conceive
*****

"That would be so cool"

You need to play a game you like...this isn't a bash, but you're a gamer, you want explosions and great variety instead of accurate modelling and efforts to recreate real things with accuracy. Operation:Flashpoint is still available, try Amazon.com, then download some of the very excellent (and cool) WWII mods for it. You'll be able to drive a Tiger tank, hop out, steal a B-17, drop bombs on Berlin, parachute out, and kill Hitler with a silenced tommygun

And please everyone, don't get on me about this, I ain't in the mood for BS. I do a lot of things like help new guys and whatnot, but I'm not paid to smell cow patties and tell everyone it's a rosebed. When I agree with folks, I tell them it's a good idea. When I don't think it's a good idea, I tell them why. This is dumb. A bad bad idea. Dumbing down the sim is stupid, and that's what this is all about- making the sim more gee-whiz and bumper-car generic. As a matter of fact, I'm coining the term 'bumper-car modelling' right now, to describe shoddy and thrown-together modelling in a sim. <span class="ev_code_PINK">Just say NO to bumper-car modelling!</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don't know someone, then don't judge him. If someone is interested in REAL modelling and ACCURATE details it's me. As a real life pilot, I can tell IL2 is the best.

Any host can decide for himself to include tanks in his hosted game or not.

Looking at your reply, I think you're pre-biased and just very protective about your game, which I can understand as Il2 as it is today, is just great. But there are some add-ons that might attract a lot of other people. It could be included as a hidden feature (don't forget, flying AI planes on-line isnt realistic either).

And finaly... Adding tanks in an offical new realease could make Oleg new $$$$, which I think would be very nice as well.

Vuco1
03-15-2006, 02:21 PM
Tanks? µÑ"! (Njet, or not on russian)

AAA? "?! (Da, or yes on russian)

Chuck_Older
03-15-2006, 02:56 PM
Trace, a few things:

1st I'm not judging you. I am judging the notion of 'throw it together' generic modelling and slapping stuff together for the sim.

Have I said you were stupid, or a child, or idiotic or anything? No. Have I said this is a bad idea? Heck yes! Have I given reasons why I feel that way? Hell yeah!

Your being a real life pilot and wanting realism...is in direct contrast to your "model a simple turret and restrict it's speed" notion. On one hand you're saying you want a generic model of something, and on the other, you want accuracy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Pick one please, you can't have both- either you make accurate modelling for everything, or you accept 'good enough' or 'make do' modelling. Think I'm kidding or exaggerating? Look at CFS3. How many years did it take to make that tinker-toy something worth playing? And it was done by third party efforts...byt the time they had gotten it pretty much right, they lost their niche. Check out a CFS3 board sometime and look at the dates of the posts. Then look here. We are alive and thriving, they are holding on by their fingertips

The other thing I'd like to point out is that the simulation genre is not strong. Watering down a sim that has a reputation for strict accuracy (most folks don't realise that the reason they think plances are undermodelled is probably because the most reliable and repeatable-not always the most optimum-performance data is used) by tossing in some play-toy tanks....no thanks, uh-uh, bad idea, all stop! Full reverse!

If they (tnaks) were accurately modelled, then I'd say we are muddling the waters by shifting focus away from the physics engines that are tried and true for the (flight!) sim- look at it the other way- could you make a tank sim feature an airplane that was worth a damn by just making a plane-shaped tank that can travel in 3D?

I think this is a bad bad idea.

For another thing- how (get ready for it) shoot-'em-up is modelling a tank in a military flight sim? I mean seriously. How many pilots could hop into a tank and rumble off? You may as well ask for an Alfa-Romeo to tear around in, in my opinion. How about some cool boats? I'd love to take that Type VII U-boat for a spin and torpedo the Akagi with it. There is a great U-boat sim you say? SHIII? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif No no no, I want to pilot a U-boat in THIS sim, not in SHIII. I also want to bail out of my plane and steal a German plane at a German base. Maybe I could steal a motorcycle and try to escape. I already have a Steve McQueen pilot skin. Why not? I bet many FB/PF players would like to race motorcycles in the sim, so gimme a BMW and a P-38 pistol and I'll re-enact the Great Escape.

No. No no no no no. No. I'm not protective of my "game", I'm protective of what a *sim* is. I don't want P-51s in GPL or GT Legends (oh God, I'd buy an assault rifle and make the news!), and I don't want driveable tanks in my WWII combat flight sim. Sims died out for a long time and made a quasi-comeback. The CFS series is partially to blame IMNSVFHO* with their opened structure, let's model any plane any way we like...it's Crimson Skies if you want it to be, excpet there's no power-ups

I'm a purist. I want my 361st P-51s to have the right codes, and the right paint schemes. I want accurate enemies in accurate aircraft with accurate markings. Why in the world would I want to water-down the sim with a foolish half assed generic plane that drives like a tank? It's 100% novelty. Maybe we could aslo make the tanks look like Zentraedi warriors in their battle pods by skinning? Then we could put our mecha into gaurdian mode and....is this ridiculous enough to illustrate how I feel about tanks in the sim yet? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'm not saying you're dumb, stupid, gay, ignorant, idiotic, ect...I'm saying this is a half-baked idea. A bad idea. I beleive that truly. I have plenty of bad ideas, probably more than you. I keep my mouth shut about most of them though


* I'm sure you can work your way through what "IMNSVFHO" means http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

slo_1_2_3
03-15-2006, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
slo_1_2_3, you mean something like this?

http://www.dldproductions.com/images/15mmcivet.jpg

I doubt they had that in WW2 - and the only thing deserving that name besides that is this ugly baby
http://k43.pbase.com/u37/kissiskickass/upload/40226625.a10.jpg

And it wasn't there in WW2 either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

nope i was talking about this one but yours would work to i guess
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/slo123/t1.jpg

Treetop64
03-15-2006, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Trace, a few things:

1st I'm not judging you. I am judging the notion of 'throw it together' generic modelling and slapping stuff together for the sim.

Have I said you were stupid, or a child, or idiotic or anything? No. Have I said this is a bad idea? Heck yes! Have I given reasons why I feel that way? Hell yeah!

Your being a real life pilot and wanting realism...is in direct contrast to your "model a simple turret and restrict it's speed" notion. On one hand you're saying you want a generic model of something, and on the other, you want accuracy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Pick one please, you can't have both- either you make accurate modelling for everything, or you accept 'good enough' or 'make do' modelling. Think I'm kidding or exaggerating? Look at CFS3. How many years did it take to make that tinker-toy something worth playing? And it was done by third party efforts...byt the time they had gotten it pretty much right, they lost their niche. Check out a CFS3 board sometime and look at the dates of the posts. Then look here. We are alive and thriving, they are holding on by their fingertips

The other thing I'd like to point out is that the simulation genre is not strong. Watering down a sim that has a reputation for strict accuracy (most folks don't realise that the reason they think plances are undermodelled is probably because the most reliable and repeatable-not always the most optimum-performance data is used) by tossing in some play-toy tanks....no thanks, uh-uh, bad idea, all stop! Full reverse!

If they (tnaks) were accurately modelled, then I'd say we are muddling the waters by shifting focus away from the physics engines that are tried and true for the (flight!) sim- look at it the other way- could you make a tank sim feature an airplane that was worth a damn by just making a plane-shaped tank that can travel in 3D?

I think this is a bad bad idea.

For another thing- how (get ready for it) shoot-'em-up is modelling a tank in a military flight sim? I mean seriously. How many pilots could hop into a tank and rumble off? You may as well ask for an Alfa-Romeo to tear around in, in my opinion. How about some cool boats? I'd love to take that Type VII U-boat for a spin and torpedo the Akagi with it. There is a great U-boat sim you say? SHIII? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif No no no, I want to pilot a U-boat in THIS sim, not in SHIII. I also want to bail out of my plane and steal a German plane at a German base. Maybe I could steal a motorcycle and try to escape. I already have a Steve McQueen pilot skin. Why not? I bet many FB/PF players would like to race motorcycles in the sim, so gimme a BMW and a P-38 pistol and I'll re-enact the Great Escape.

No. No no no no no. No. I'm not protective of my "game", I'm protective of what a *sim* is. I don't want P-51s in GPL or GT Legends (oh God, I'd buy an assault rifle and make the news!), and I don't want driveable tanks in my WWII combat flight sim. Sims died out for a long time and made a quasi-comeback. The CFS series is partially to blame IMNSVFHO* with their opened structure, let's model any plane any way we like...it's Crimson Skies if you want it to be, excpet there's no power-ups

I'm a purist. I want my 361st P-51s to have the right codes, and the right paint schemes. I want accurate enemies in accurate aircraft with accurate markings. Why in the world would I want to water-down the sim with a foolish half assed generic plane that drives like a tank? It's 100% novelty. Maybe we could aslo make the tanks look like Zentraedi warriors in their battle pods by skinning? Then we could put our mecha into gaurdian mode and....is this ridiculous enough to illustrate how I feel about tanks in the sim yet? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'm not saying you're dumb, stupid, gay, ignorant, idiotic, ect...I'm saying this is a half-baked idea. A bad idea. I beleive that truly. I have plenty of bad ideas, probably more than you. I keep my mouth shut about most of them though


* I'm sure you can work your way through what "IMNSVFHO" means http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Agree 100%

Tully__
03-15-2006, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by diabloblanco1:
This kind of request was inevitable...

Not just inevitable, it's old news. It goes right back to within a couple of months of the release o the original IL2 Sturmovik game (maybe earlier).

redfeathers1948
03-15-2006, 08:51 PM
drivable tank!!??...baaaaaaloney

El Turo
03-16-2006, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
slo_1_2_3, you mean something like this?

http://www.dldproductions.com/images/15mmcivet.jpg

I doubt they had that in WW2 - and the only thing deserving that name besides that is this ugly baby
http://k43.pbase.com/u37/kissiskickass/upload/40226625.a10.jpg

And it wasn't there in WW2 either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

nope i was talking about this one but yours would work to i guess
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/slo123/t1.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet that tank flies faster.