View Full Version : A great idea and a request, Oleg.

04-11-2005, 11:20 PM
First off, I want to say that IL-2, and everything after it is absolutely fantastic, and truely introduced me to a new genre, and got me hooked in the process. I hope you keep putting out more games just as good as IL-2!

Secondly, the thread topic. My request is, could you guys add cockpit to at least one four engined bomber from mid-late war in the game? Other than the TB-3, there are none, which I feel is extremely unfortunate.

Now I have an idea though as a workaround while you create all the proper cockpits. That 'virtual cockpit' feature for newbie pilots would be a fantastic way to use as a workaround the no cockpits issue, so that way people can fly planes that are normally unflyable (like the aforementioned four engined bombers). You could set it so that the virtual cockpit overrides the 'cockpit is missing' error, and have it automatically jump to virtual cockpit, even if realism settings state otherwise.

Turrets could either be uncontrolable (like how the non-cockpit planes are at the moment, which are AI controlled), or alternatively, you could rig up a new system that allows the virtual cockpit to be used for gunnery as well.

This way, we can enjoy EVERY plane in the period, and I doubt it would take an extreme amount of coding to do it. Reply back, because I want to hear your opinion on the matter.

04-13-2005, 09:44 AM
Does anyone else have any thoughts to this idea?

04-13-2005, 10:18 AM
Cockpits and gunner stations for Heavy (i.e. 4 engined, mulit crew) bombers require something on the order of 4-10 times the work of a single seat fighter, depending of course, on the complexity of the model.

While it IS a possibility I dont think that we will EVER see flyable planes without cockpits in the IL2 serise.

There are several reasons
1) the amount of work required (resources, staff and implementation)
2) the Il2 serise is not longer a primary focus of 1c Maddox games. While there is still a dedicated team working on the sim the majority of work is now being carried out on a new enige and sim scheduled for release some time around mid/late 2006 or early 2007.
3) The standard of this game has always been that flyable planes have cockpits. I know this its the 'thats how its always been, so why change it?' argument, but flying around with the cockpit off does very little for a LOT if not most of the players offline and some of the players online
4) the sim isn't really set up for high altitude, long range bombers; it isn't like you can do the London to Berlin or Okinawa to Tokyo runs in the game. The maps are really of a sie that is more suited to fighters and tactical bombers.
5) Apparently the deadline for submissions to add on to the game has already passed. Even without adding the 4 engined bombers there are approximately 20+ basic airframes (read types of plane) waiting to be implemented into the sim; Mosquito IV and VI, Ju-88A4 (+ multiple variants ?), Pe-2, G4M1, Tempest, Spitfire XIV, Ki-100, Mc 202, MC 205, B6N2, MC 200, Reggiane 2000, Reggiane 2001, Cr. 32, Do-335, Fokker D-XXI, Fiat G-55, J2M3, CW-21, S.M. 79, Avia biplane and maybe some others I have missed. Life is good still, there is a HEAP of content left to go.
6) Lastly, one of the reasons to play this game is to simulate WW2 aircombet to the highest standard that we can. Personally it just doesn't DO it for me to be flying disembodied in 'wonder woman view'

04-13-2005, 10:24 AM
Hi, Legacy

Idea is well known, and has been brought forward several times...

One of the things I respect most with Oleg and the dev-team is that they have very high standards of what they accept/approve to enter the sim. It has to be of the highest quality possible, as historically accurate as possible. There was an idea, that AI planes would become flyable without cockpit, only with crosshair like in no-cockpit mode - dev team refused it, because if they offer something, it must me not only completed, but also almost flawless...

Only this way this sim got its reputation. But this does not go without a toll... I am sure we would see B17/Fw200/lancaster if above wouldn't hold....

Altough AI planes are flyable from externals, they have simplyfied FM which would need to be reworked.

There is enormous work to do for one bomber (compared with fighters). It is harder to find relyable sources about FM compared to fighters - there is also a LOT of work to do all internals correctly, especially finding data on defensive guns angles is hard (but also very important - early B17s had a dead spot between upper position of a rear gunner, and a lower position of a back gunner. LW pilots learned quickly of that!).

Oleg himself admitted that high alt FMs (where viermots would mostly operate) are questionable...

And, nevertheless, dev team gets paid for what they do. And since you can make e.g. 5 fighters with the same effort that you would need for one "viermot", and since fighters sell much better, it is clear that fighters are priority...

I would like to see at least one of B17/24/29/Lancaster/He177/Fw200 in upcoming patch, but rationally I don't believe so...