PDA

View Full Version : On the "percieved" belief that you cannot stall...



XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 08:20 PM
I think those of you that say planes cannot be stalled in FB really need to take a look at your stick settings. It is possible to set your sticks to such a parameter that you cannot stall. I have set up my Cougar and have found I can stall quite easily. High speed stalls, High G stalls, you name it, they are there.

Of the people who say you cannot stall a plane, I ask have you fiddled with your stick setting at all?

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 08:20 PM
I think those of you that say planes cannot be stalled in FB really need to take a look at your stick settings. It is possible to set your sticks to such a parameter that you cannot stall. I have set up my Cougar and have found I can stall quite easily. High speed stalls, High G stalls, you name it, they are there.

Of the people who say you cannot stall a plane, I ask have you fiddled with your stick setting at all?

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 08:23 PM
Nope! I find the default (10-20-30) work just fine.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

fluke39
07-19-2003, 08:34 PM
mostly when i see people saying that i thought they were speaking figurativly (excuse my spelling) - as in "you cannot stall the hurricane" - whilst the hurricane is the most unstallable plane - it can still be done - and more than just 'slips' i know as i managed to get into a fatal stall/spin online in one yesterday - i was quite proud of myself actually !/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

Hunter82
07-19-2003, 08:54 PM
perception is reality in most cases.......

<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">IDC
Completely disorganized,and coming to a base near you[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
<center> Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 08:56 PM
You can stall every plane in FB 1.0 by defination. As in your wings fail to provide enough lift to maintain altitude. But some planes like the Hurricanes are very odd in this realm. They don't stall until you are at around 110km/h. And even then, it only enters simple stalls (nose mushes down but no spinning or tumbles). The main issue is actually climb rate, the hurricanes appear to not be subject to gravity.

----------------------------------------
<center>I/JG1 Oesau (http://jg1-oesau.org) is recruiting. Join us!

Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 08:57 PM
"Hunter82 wrote:
- perception is reality in most cases....... "

Don't you mean the exact opposite? Ask a cop at a crime scene questioning witnesses.

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 09:01 PM
Hedus wrote:
- I think those of you that say planes cannot be
- stalled in FB really need to take a look at your
- stick settings. It is possible to set your sticks
- to such a parameter that you cannot stall. I have
- set up my Cougar and have found I can stall quite
- easily. High speed stalls, High G stalls, you name
- it, they are there.
-
- Of the people who say you cannot stall a plane, I
- ask have you fiddled with your stick setting at all?
-
-
-
-

Hmm, I don't remember anyone saying that the planes couldn't be "stalled", but instead that the flight models overall were more forgiving to the "yank and bank" crowd, which they are I believe.

_____________________________________
Proud flyer of IL2 Forgotten Battles: The home of the first, and only fully Kevlar covered airplanes...the Lagg 3 and I16 Rata.

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 09:13 PM
well, i know that alot of planes dont have a high speed stall with the default stick settings that i fly with, specially the fw190

in all my expierence i cant really think of any planes that have a high speed stall in FB, most of them you can just pull the stick all the way back if you are going really fast, and then just let off some when you slow down and you wont stall, specially if you know what the highest speed the plane can stall at

----------------------------------------

USA, ALL THE WAY!!
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/362000-362999/362642_1_full.jpg
P-51, it "won the war"

don't forget to take it easy, and if it's easy, take it twice.

Hunter82
07-19-2003, 09:21 PM
Nope.

The way one perceives a situation is their 'reality'.

Until proven as a fact each situation in ones life is a perception of their beliefs or collection of data at the time of occurance. This tends to be obscured through thought processes and memory recall,which is why some can fight endlessly for their beliefs...it has yet to be factually proven to them....hence perception is reality /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Most spoken thoughts or conversation have little factual basis and are ones perception of events, collectivly making up ones life or reality /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ... OK I`m back to painting my house now...... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Hedus wrote:
- "Hunter82 wrote:
-- perception is reality in most cases....... "
-
- Don't you mean the exact opposite? Ask a cop at a
- crime scene questioning witnesses.
-
-



<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">IDC
Completely disorganized,and coming to a base near you[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
<center> Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 09:33 PM
190 doenst have high speed stall because you cant more the elevator at high speed enough to make it stall.


"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"The future battle on the ground will be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions." --Erwin Rommel

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/Mesig.jpg
--NJG26_Killa--

fluke39
07-19-2003, 09:40 PM
y
Hunter82 wrote:
- Nope.
-
- The way one perceives a situation is their
- 'reality'.
-
- Until proven as a fact each situation in ones life
- is a perception of their beliefs or collection of
- data at the time of occurance. This tends to be
- obscured through thought processes and memory
- recall,which is why some can fight endlessly for
- their beliefs...it has yet to be factually proven to
- them....hence perception is reality
-
- Hedus wrote:
-- "Hunter82 wrote:
--- perception is reality in most cases....... "
--
-- Don't you mean the exact opposite? Ask a cop at a
-- crime scene questioning witnesses.

you should have really made your fist post clearer - true each person percieves their own reality or rather their reality is made up of what they percieve - but how are we ever to know what true 'reality'is -
the only way to percieve true reality is to strip yourself of your perceptual 'filters' - which is quite hard to do - well it can be done - but you have to try hard to ignore those strange cartoon mushrooms that keep sprouting everywhere and distracting you /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 09:45 PM
You'll be happy to hear the Fw190 in the patch has a nice high speed stall, and it doesn't matter what your settings are.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

Hunter82
07-19-2003, 09:47 PM
OK in simple terms the world is round....now if I could just get this talking cat and crazy dude on a hat from chasing me..... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">IDC
Completely disorganized,and coming to a base near you[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
<center> Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 09:56 PM
well, ill be flying the p47, after patch, or the stang if its in the patch

----------------------------------------

http://www.microworks.net/pacific/aviation/xfl-1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 10:14 PM
Is there any chance that the default stick settings don't give enough range for alot of people's controllers? Maybe this is why they can't get stalls, like I can in the 190, just like it did in RealLife(tm).

Maybe some changing of the stick settings could give more of a realistic handling than just settling for default as "model de jour".

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 10:25 PM
Most guys put softer settings in than default. Olegs setting are very soft. As long as the last number is 100. Your getting full throw. If you stall all the time. Make the last number 85-90, and taper the other settings up to it more slowly than default.

Some guys make the settings very aggessive. They start at 40-50, and get to 100 in 4-5 steps. I feel this is to touchy. Especially in the Fw190. Some guys will even use 100 straight across. This is is insane. I can't fly that way.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 11:36 PM
As they say, it depends on your stick settings.
I set mine up so I can pull full (yank) at approx 400 without stalling. This is aircraft dependent.

As for the one reply about "yank-and-bank", I use this at low speed, low height to escape yak3's. the trick is when you "yank", your craft naturally stalls, so immediately, centralise stick and you find yourself rotated 180 in roll.
This is faster than aerilon rolls.

Stalling is not so bad, as long as you can recover quick enough. It can be used to "Brake" your speed and/or "Roll" faster than normal.

Cheers
Tony

Hunter82
07-19-2003, 11:56 PM
What you need to check is where DX and the sim see as the end of travel. If both end at the end of the box at the same time in the input menu your settings are fine. If they end differently adjust down the furthest right slider from 100 until both end at the same time when the stick reaches full travel, the adjust all others down the same amount for a starting point. You can adjust up or down from there for taste.



Hedus wrote:
- Is there any chance that the default stick settings
- don't give enough range for alot of people's
- controllers? Maybe this is why they can't get
- stalls, like I can in the 190, just like it did in
- RealLife(tm).
-
- Maybe some changing of the stick settings could give
- more of a realistic handling than just settling for
- default as "model de jour".
-
-



<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">IDC
Completely disorganized,and coming to a base near you[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">[/i]</FONT>
<center><FONT COLOR="white">Hunter wrote:
"I did not have technical relations with that question"
[/i]</FONT>
<center> Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com/) </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>
<center> <a href="</a> </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 12:09 AM
Lol i flew FB with oleg before it was released at a UK show and to say the stick settings were "soft" is a misnomer, he had em at full real.

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 12:16 AM
Do you know what we're talking about? Not difficulty settings. Input joystick settings. Oleg's came with a patch for IL2, and they ARE very soft.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 12:19 AM
Taylortony

Here's Oleg's settings. You don't call these soft?

Pitch:
0 5 10 17 25 33 43 54 71 100
Roll:
0 3 7 15 25 35 50 66 84 100
Yaw:
0 8 19 29 39 51 62 75 86 100



Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 12:20 AM
LOL

<Center><div style="width:700;colorhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifurple;font-size:14pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=black,strength=11)"><Center>
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.</div> <center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</FONT>

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 04:21 AM
Perhaps you are misunderstanding the issue that some people have. While I agree that I might call a hurri "unstallable" in this sim, I might also call all the planes unstallable simply because of the way in which the FM treats excess angle of attack. In IL-2 and FB a stall does not occur when the critical angle of attack is exceeded, instead the aircraft performs a snaproll, or incipient spin (depending on entry speed) and this is not preceded by an actual stall (obvious only to those with real world flight knowledge), and no amount of coordination between rudder and aileron will prevent a wing from dropping at, and just preceding the break. The fact that this sim doesn't stall in my mind has nothing to do with stick sensitivity. (fortunately I like snap rolls!!)

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Reserve Pilot Aircraft #2 of Gruppo 313
Pattuglia Acrobatica Virtuale
http://www.pav-amvi.it

http://www.calaggieflyers.com/



http://www.txsquadron.com/images/txsquadron_main.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 04:26 AM
wait for the patch .. the FM may change



btw .. if you want good evidence of the current whacky state of the FM just spawn an Emil hit 110% throttle and push the stick forward so it stays on the runway. You will see it hitting more than 300kmh before you run out of runway .. still on the ground with the gear down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif))

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 04:42 AM
TX ecodragon, I do have some Real World(tm) flight knowledge, and Mustangs, P-47s and 190s do have high speed stalls, which don't have the indication of low speed stalls, like shuttering. The high speed stalls have practically no indication, hence the snap roll. I have not really seen great low speed stall indicators in FB, where Warbirds had really good indicators. There should be shuttering, mushy controls. Have to see what happens after the patch.

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 01:04 PM
High-Speed stalls are modelled better (IMHO) in the patch, but they are not as severe as they were in IL-2.

The Hurri (In Build08 at least) is more prone to high AOA stalls but the main thing I noticed is that its Roll Rate has been decreased.

The FW190 elevator authority is much better /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
However the 190 does (IMHO) roll too rapidly at high-speed. Even at 700Kph it can roll almost as fast as it can at around 400kph. The final build may be very different though.

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg