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View Full Version : HSFX 4.0 Mod package: A big step forward



Buzzsaw-
10-21-2009, 01:21 PM
Salute All

Check out the HSFX 4.0 mod package, this is quite a step forward in terms of giving Modded play the ease of use we saw in the original IL-2.

(to see HSFX 4.0, google "242 Squadron 242 (Virtual) Squadron" and then select "IL-2 Mod Software Releases" forum)


In particular, the HSFX mod package has the following changes from standard mod packages:

>>>

Game performance increases

SFS Files

The IL-2 game engine was designed to store and retreive it's resource files (graphics, sounds, java code) in a
compressed format in SFS files. The Mods, up until now, have stored their altered files, in uncompressed files,
many thousands of files ... and in a multitued of graphic formats, many that are non-native to IL-2 and have to be
translated by the engine before use. This has slowed game load times dramatically, and become worse in each
Mod release. User's with average PC's have seen load times recently of 4-8 minutes.

Version 4.0 now uses SFS files to store all Mod files in a compressed format, a huge saving in storage space, and
all graphics files has been converted to formats that are native (faster, smaller) to the IL-2 game engine. This change
dramatically reduces the game load times so that they are now close to standard Il-2. This also increases in-game
performance over all previous versions of the Mod.

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Java Code corrections (242Sqn_Chap)

Many of the Mods included up to now have had literally hundreds of Java errors. This has been caused by coding
being altered without an assessment of the full impact of the code changes, in all scenerios. It's a tribute to the
design of the IL-2 game engine that it could cope with the hundreds and hundreds of errors being generated while
running previous versions of the Mod packages, and still run with most users completely unaware of all the errors
being generated. These errors did have a cost though, in game performance, as the game engine runs routines to
determine how to respond to the error and still continue executing the program.

All the Java routines, from A to Z, have been completely and thoroughly debugged in Version 4.0, including anything
that was appearing in the log 1st file. This work is a significant contribution, along with the SFS files mentioned above,
in the dramatic increase in performance in Version 4.0.

<<<

The HSFX Mod also rationalizes and streamlines mods from a number of sites, incorporating them into this Mod, while giving the original creators full credit.

It is the most complete package of mods out there. Even so, it is smaller in size, due to its use of the .sfs file format, than other mod packages, even though it includes much more content.

The HSFX package is designed to work the new Oleg approved 4.09, with all its new content.

As well, it is available through bit torrent downloads, for quicker access, and less potential for corrupt files.

The HSFX mod starts with 4.08, then the user patches to 4.09, then patches to the HSFX mods.

Check it out.

thefruitbat
10-21-2009, 01:24 PM
Interesting, thanks for the heads up.

edit, after fully reading it, if it does what it says, its awesome! of to try it out.

fruitbat

BillSwagger
10-21-2009, 01:52 PM
This is a huge mile stone in the progress of this sim. It also seems to complete other functions and because of SFS compression its more similar to a game patch, and will lead to much better load times.

way to go~



Bill

ytareh
10-21-2009, 02:09 PM
Cant say Im noticing any really long load times ...maybe a minute max online with 4.09bm...try Rise of Flight's 3 minute loading times and report back about long load times!

LEBillfish
10-21-2009, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the tip, I'll look into it!

K2

Extreme_One
10-21-2009, 02:20 PM
Just what I've been looking for.

Thanks to all involved.

Buzzsaw-
10-21-2009, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by ytareh:
Cant say Im noticing any really long load times ...maybe a minute max online with 4.09bm...try Rise of Flight's 3 minute loading times and report back about long load times!

Salute ytareh

I think you are using only the official patches.

This is a patch which includes nearly all the modded content which has been created over the last couple years.

Load times for installations which included this content typically were 4-8 minutes, with this HSFX patch, load times are around 20-30 seconds.

HayateAce
10-21-2009, 02:41 PM
Unless I mis-read the readme.text, the only thing to change with the P51's is a carping mirror?

As much as I like the idea of better compression attributes and fixed errors, I'm sticking with Ui1.2 for now.

Choctaw111
10-21-2009, 03:24 PM
That is interesting. I will look into it and see what I think about it.

Freiwillige
10-21-2009, 03:40 PM
does this have UI-1.2 in it as well?

HayateAce
10-21-2009, 03:52 PM
Sounded a bit ungrateful there.

Thank you MOD SQUADS, the old girl has new life.

Buzzsaw-
10-21-2009, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
does this have UI-1.2 in it as well?

New Content in Version 4.0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Game performance increases

SFS Files

The IL-2 game engine was designed to store and retreive it's resource files (graphics, sounds, java code) in a
compressed format in SFS files. The Mods, up until now, have stored their altered files, in uncompressed files,
many thousands of files ... and in a multitued of graphic formats, many that are non-native to IL-2 and have to be
translated by the engine before use. This has slowed game load times dramatically, and become worse in each
Mod release. User's with average PC's have seen load times recently of 4-8 minutes.

Version 4.0 now uses SFS files to store all Mod files in a compressed format, a huge saving in storage space, and
all graphics files has been converted to formats that are native (faster, smaller) to the IL-2 game engine. This change
dramatically reduces the game load times so that they are now close to standard Il-2. This also increases in-game
performance over all previous versions of the Mod.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Java Code corrections (242Sqn_Chap)

Many of the Mods included up to now have had literally hundreds of Java errors. This has been caused by coding
being altered without an assessment of the full impact of the code changes, in all scenerios. It's a tribute to the
design of the IL-2 game engine that it could cope with the hundreds and hundreds of errors being generated while
running previous versions of the Mod packages, and still run with most users completely unaware of all the errors
being generated. These errors did have a cost though, in game performance, as the game engine runs routines to
determine how to respond to the error and still continue executing the program.

All the Java routines, from A to Z, have been completely and thoroughly debugged in Version 4.0, including anything
that was appearing in the log 1st file. This work is a significant contribution, along with the SFS files mentioned above,
in the dramatic increase in performance in Version 4.0.

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GUI changes

Old style IL2 Sturmovik game menus. (Fly Zo)

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SaveMissionParams_1_0 (Fireball)
See read me.

If you build and edit missions using any special mod commands, add the described line to your bldconfig.ini and
IL-2 will no longer delete your settings when you re-open the mission in FMB.


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128 Player co-op (FC)

This version includes the code that allows up to 128 players in an on-line coop mission. The actual number of
players that play without excessive lag and micro pauses, etc. depends on the performance of the server that is
hosting the coop.

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Hidden Co-op Slots (UF_Fernand)
See read me

The server stores two prefix’s and players that join the server with the correct prefix’s only see aircraft for their
own side in the selection screen. Also aircraft types are removed in the in-game S menu. This preserves the Fog
of War in a more realistic way.


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Bomb Bay Doors (Fireball)

All aircraft with Bombay doors have to open their Bombay doors. Map this new key in your control.

Adds new key combinations if you so wish

Also controls specific server side views .

See enclosed BombBayDoors_Plus_v2_README.txt and make SURE that you map a key to
Open/Close Bombay doors.

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Ai V3.0 (Certificate)

An improved version of the AI routines for the AI controlled aircraft.

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Carrier Catapult Mod (Fireball)
See read me
Taxi forward to the catapult track on carriers with them. Put chocks in and you will snap to the catapult track.
Throttle up and deploy flaps etc, when you release chocks the catapult will go throw you forward.

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Radar for Ground and ships (Maraz, Manu & 4Shades)
See SEOW read me

This allows placement and operation of working Radar networks within missions.

For ground networks you have to place Radar chain High and Radar Chain Low stationary objects or ships with
working Radar, ( all Carriers, Cruisers and Battleships + later US Destroyers) into the mission and then a
Radar Aircraft (parked) for the Server.

Data is then outputted to the Radar display pages of the SEOW mission planner.

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Ship damage Logging (Shades & Fc)

Outputs damage to ships to the Log file so that SEOW can parse cumulative ship damage between missions.
(note:- this currently only logs ship vs ship and ai vs ship but it is still a great feature, we hope to include player
damage at a later date.)

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Aircraft:-

AI Planes that are now Flyable.

P36’s, MS 400’s , Me 210’s & a bunch of other aircraft are made flyable by default, in addition we have added
in the following:-

A5M4
AR-196A3
Avenger
B17 D,E,G
B24
B25’s
B29
B5N2 Kate & B6N2
Bf110 C4 & C4B
Blenheim MkI & IV
C47
DB3 Russian medium bombers
Fw200
G4M2 and Okha
Gladiator MkI & II
HS 129 (cockpit mk V by Ranwars & Chap)
H8K1
Ju52
Ki21 I & II
Ki46
Macchi 200 Mk I & 7
MBR-2AM34
Mosquito MKIV
Nemen R10
PBY
SB2M-100 & 103
Su2
TU 2S
TBF & TBM’s
U2VS

All but HS129 originally by PeaceLovinHippy & Lt.Wolf

Although almost all of them have been extensively reworked by us or by others since.

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New Aircraft added to IL-2 with the Mod.

Beaufighter Mk X
B29 Silverplate
Bf 110 G4
Me410’s
FW190 A3
FW190 D11 & D13, 1945
Spitfire MKI
Spitfire XII
Spitfire XIV’s
Hurricane Mk IID
Mosquito XIV

Above by: -
Mr Jolly (Class editing)
Ranwers (Model Alterations and texturing)
Zeppo & Vpmedia (Skins)
Hunin (Flight Models)
Fatduck & DrJones (3d conversion)

(plus sometimes….Waggle Flushy, Zorin, Howlin)

FW190_A2
P36 A2 & Mowhawk IV
PBN5 Catalina
Fw190 A7’s

by LAL_Josse

Tempest Series 1 & 2
These are ‘hybrids; of Josse’s Load outs, Hunnins FM’s Ranwars sliding cockpits.

109 F1
190 D5 /Torp,3
I-15 M-22, 1934 & I-15 M-25, 1937 = Early fixed wheeled I15's.
I-16 Type 5, 1935, I-16 Type 10, 1937, I-16 Type 17, 1938, I-16 Type 18 (2xBS), 1939, I-16 Type 27, 1939,
I-16 Type 28, 1939
Yak7 Bubble top
Yak 3N
Yak-1 PF, 1942
Yak-1 PF Light, 1942
Yak-1B early, 1942
Yak-9M early, 1944
Yak-9U early, 1944
La-5F early, 1942
Yak-9DD, 1944
MiG-3 field mod, 1941
HurricaneIIa, 1940
Spitfire Va, 1941

All by Blitz & Chameleon (Aviaskins Russia)

Lagg Series 1, 1941
Lagg Series 11, 1941
He-111H-16, 1943

All by By_Rudi

Douglas DB-7 ‘Boston mkII’
Breda Ba65 (ai only)
Beaufighter MKI
He-111H-21, 1944
F80A
F80C (based on Flatikens Wing meshes)

by Chap

SeaHurricane 1b & IIc
SeaGladiator

By Maus

Spitfire 1b
Spitfire IIa
Spitfire IIb

Updated Spitfire Va and Hurricane IIa (new FM’s by HSFX team)

By Anto

New Bf 110 variants
C1 C7,D, E, F

By SAS_Cirx (fm’s by EnsignRo )

Bf109E1 & E3 (Veltro) (Cannon canopy updates)
Spitfire Vc Fb’s ‘’
SpitfireVIII FB’s ‘’
Cr42 Bombe Aleri ‘’
Seafire MKI & II.’s (updated versions) (Veltro & Gitano)
Original Bf109 F2B & F4FB classes. (Veltro & Gitano)
Hurricane tropical versions (GCT_Veltro )
Bf109's G4 & G2t,G4t & G6t (tropical) versions.
(Cannon:- Tropical filter , GCT_Veltro Classes, Chap AHS integration)



Ju88A4 Torpedo variant. ( 6S.Maraz , _1SMV_Gitano , char_aznable)
TBM-1 Avenger, 1942. ( 6S.Maraz , _1SMV_Gitano , char_aznable)
Ju88C6 Dayfighter (Importation & java 6S.Maraz )

Swordfish (6S.Maraz & 6S.Tamat)


DH82A TigerMoth (Ranwars & Kumpel)
(Note This aircraft is for Fun, it does not have a fully developed DM so not recommended as an online flyable)

RWD8 2.0 (Ranwars)

FaireyBattle
MosquitoVI Coastal Command

HalifaxBMkIII (Chap & Ranwars)

Yak7Uti (Ranwars, Blitz & lefty)

B24J with full load outs (EnsignRo)

Recon 109’s (DZZ)
Transport TB3’s

Miles Magister M14 (RAF_Magpie) (Superb)
http://www.raf662.com/forums/index.php

SeaFury
P2V5 Neptune
F9F2 Panther (Flatiken) (Extremely high quality work !)

Bf109 ‘Erla’ later series
C3 variants
K6
Plus improved LOD (Anto)

n.b. The Bf109’s have become pretty complicated and its really hard to keep track of just exactly who did what:-

Hun in the Sun, Gordano, Veltro, Maus, Anto & Cirx certainly have each done a lot of work over time. Each
improving and building.

I have used Anto & Cirx versions ‘mostly’ in the final incarnations as they have benefited from over a year of
development and are the culmination of all that has gone before.

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Plane Cockpit retexturing: -

Hurricanes & Spitfires (Avala)

B29’s
B17’s
Me210’s
Me410’s
Fw189
Fi156
PBY & Catalina (Ranwars !)

Iar80’s
Fiat G50
P40’s
P38’s
A20’s (All positions) (Tyrl)


Mosquito (Fly Zo)

Ju88 (bolox )

P47’s (Taurus & Poncho)
Retextured P47 engine & wheels external (Thirdeye)

F6F Cockpits retextured. (Fly Zo)

i16 Cockpits (Mangas)

i153 (Bee)

Yak Cockpits & La Cockpits (Mangas)

U2VS Cockpit (AAA_Kumpel, Ranwars, Mr Jolly )

Fw190’s (Capt Flushgarden)

The 109 cockpits have undergone complex evolution, they are a modification of AHS (Hun in the sun)
but developed & simplified, with new textures (by Freddy) but then cut down by (Hades) to correct
the sun shining through Alpha’s problem.

Ju87 & He111 (der-blaue-max)

Ki61 (mane & updated by SAS_Cirx)

Zero Cockpits (Der Wurstenfuchs)

Ki-84b & c (200th Sakagawa)

GB Gladiators (Chap)

Tiger Moth & Magister Cockpits (Ranwars, English gauges Chap)

Final retexturing of the FW190,
109 and Spitfire cockpits. (C6_Claymore)

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Updated and Improved Aircraft:-

All AI aircraft made flyable have enhanced FM’s, usually this is just the addition of glide and stall characteristics
and revised weight and wing area data wherever appropriate…although in some cases it has had to be more
exhaustive. (eg most of the 4 engine Heavies) We have also worked up the FM’s of some of the new aircraft
when we have thought them to be wildly wrong. (eg the Me410 was way off research data.) This is a constant
WIP. Olegs player FM’s are sacrosanct of course. (The HSFX team)

Bomber gunner positions correctly named wherever possible in net code. Updated gunner cockpits in most of the
AI made flyable bomber with guns of correct nationality, cleaner positions and more appropriate turrets in many
cases. Fire extinguishers added to the US heavies. (Chap)

There has been a lot of incremental improvements to a whole variety of thing’s, this is difficult and takes a lot of
time and effort.

New Hurricane, Tempest & SeaFury Canopies Open (Maus & Veltro)
New 109, All Fw190 & P40E,M Canopies Open (EnsignRo)
Bf110G4:- improved 3D and Schräge Musik site. (Maggot & Slow)


BlenheimIV Glass Nose and Norden (BY_Rudi)
Li2 Bombsight

Zero updates (Japancat)
Zero Skins (RZ)

Ordinance Mods:- Highly detailed bombs (Mostly Zorin)
Japanese Ordinance mod (JG53 Badger)

There is so much here that it is extremely difficult to list it all individually, if we find something that could be better,
we do it and it runs into many hundreds of items over the life of HSFX. Check out many of our bombers to see
this difference.

Hakenkruz enabler (Brigstock)

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Gun sights & Mirrors: -

FW190 Bar removed (Fucida)
Spit Vc cockpit position lowered (Total spoon, Veltro & Gitano, Chap integration)
Macchi 202 reticule correction
Zero cleaned reticules (Fly-Zo)
F6F F5 & Hellcat Mirror ( PeaceLovinHippy)
P51D’s mirror added (PeaceLovinHippy & Lt Wolf)
MkII gyro gun sight for Spits 44+ ( Mr Jolly)
Askania gyro gun sight added to Ta-183 ( Mr Jolly)
New Gun sights for P47’s (Poncho)
P38 Gun sight improved (Poncho)
Fw190 Tinted Revi’s (Cirx)
Updated US Reticles (NWD)

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New Effects: -

High Rez oil blotch (Avala)
Gunfire flash Effects 2.1 (Vpmedia)
Improved Tracers (ZG2Rainer Zufall)
New Fire effects & Realistic Blackout (Fly)
Landing lights that no longer shine through wing. (nightshifter)
Destruction mod makes some static objects tougher (eg trees and destroyed ones are now replaced by stumps)
and also makes some ships guns destructible (FabianFred).

Lots of smoke and dust effects & damage and destruction effects refined. In some cases we have actually removed

Final perfection by C6_Claymore with a little help from SAS_Cirx

UFF_Josses Environment effects (slightly lightened)
High level stratos and mist effect and optimised fog and other cleverness.

Ambient Gunflash toned down by SAS_Cirx

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New Default Skins:-

By Vpmedia, Kristorf, Mongoose, Tchaika, Imme, Greg Boyington, CanonUK, RONNCO & many more…J

New Default Pilot skins by Elephant

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Clouds & Wind: -

High altitude stratos effects (Vpmedia, LAL_Rhone)
Low Cloud height Mod allows new settings in FMB

We have used a cloud version by OlegPetrushko. This looks good and also gives good performance.

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New Maps:-

Zuti’s Airfield Friction Mod v3.0
This is a great tool, lightened versions of Centmed, Malta, Lybia and Lower Burma are included in this version
and Slovenia is built upon this. This makes it possible.

See full read me

Flight Test Map (Brian Bury)

The Slot (Team pacific FA_Cheech etc)
ffb_Thailand (FabianFred)
LowerBurma (CzechTexan)
NTL_Darwin (Neil Lowe)
Midway (populated) (Panzerkeil)
Midway expanded (242Sqn_Cat)
Philippines 2.0 (Delvpier)
(detailed Philippines location names) (352ndOscar)

Channel Map beta (Cannon)
Channel 1940-41 (Cannon)
Channel 1942-45 (Cannon)
Channel 1940-41 Winter (Cannon)
Channel 1942-45 Winter (Cannon)

Kt-Channel DF map (Kapteeni)

Finsgulf (Kapteeni)
Finland Online (Kt) (Kapteeni)
Tab-Ardennes
LAL_Normandy 43 & 44 (LAL_Rhone)
Slovakia Winter map (may-bug)
Slovenia Map 1.35 (Zuti)
Gothic Line (Brigstock)

Italy, Greece, Africa (Redfox_69)
Sardegna (Redfox_69)
Malta (6S.Maraz)
CentreMed (6S.Maraz)
Libya NE (JV_69)

Sinai (delvpier)

Aleutians
Dakar
Madagascar (Agracia)

Crete
El Alamein (Viking)

Map Retexturing

Perfect map textures option (Vpmedia)
Some alternate Seasonal variants (Gilb57)
LAL_Kursk and LAL_Provkharovka (LAL_Rhone)
LAL_Crimea multiseasons (LAL_Rhone)
LAL Okinawa Map (LAL_Rhone)


New Map Objects:-

Bridges and Dessert objects (exported from TOW) (DLV).
Note:-Added damage box’s to the Houses and Camels but some of the other features do not have them.

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New nations & Squadron:-

Gaston has added a lot of new nations and some squadrons for many existing nations.

RA, ANR , SAAF, 12th & 15th AF OOB’s. (Veltro)

Updated VVS & LW formations (researched by Brandle)

Canadian and Full RAF & LW BOB OOB’s (Brigstock)
.
***Only use the new nations and squadrons online when you are certain that all others also have them.***

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Ground Objects:-

Ship pack 2: - Introduces a lot of new stationary and moving ships. (FC & Archie)
+
Char Aznable (Soldati)
Miker (Indomitable & reskinned Essex class + another ?)
Chap (HMSFiji & Tribal, Littorio Battleship)
Cat (IJNHiryu, Kaga & Soryu plus reskinned Akagi)

Tank Pack One (Chap)
Commonwealth:- VickersMKVI (mg tank) M3Lee Crusader CrusaderAAA (a 44 'Hobarts' funny )
Italy:- Fiat 13 & M15 Light tanks. Fiat M40 & M42 SPG's
France:- HotchkissH35 & RenaultR35 light Tanks. SomuaS35 Medium tank.

Many new tank texture (Boser.)

New vehicle Models:- (Wfly).

Beautifully improved desert versions of M4a2, Valentine, Matilda UK, PzIIIj and Pzivf2 & PzVIE
Completely New M3Grant Model & also M3A1.
These have radio aerials, lamps, headlights, fuel drums and fine detailing, really an insight into how good armour
can look. Note you will not see these in FMB but the Summer versions, however on a Desert map you will see
them when you play the missions. (this is the same for all Desert vehicle textures & Infantry...many in game
vehicles do now have these but the FMB does not show them, but they do show during the missions.)

German & Russian Trucks retextured (rofl)

New Vehicles
FireEngine, FireTender. NAAFI wagon, RAF and new US Bus. Civilian
Trucks and Cars. Fiat Truck (LAL_Rhone & Chap)


Tougher Bridges and Trains (Chap)

New columns types

Columns and Trains updated to use new AAA types

Extremely Tough coastal artillery emplacements
Warning, the 15” guns can defeat a Battleship !

Edited armour values & speeds for many vehicles & tanks, a lot of small edits but all values are now in line with the data provided here:-
http://www.onwar.com/tanks/index.htm

Armour that no longer fires at Aircraft (type specific) (Brandle)
Armour Spacing now 24m without Radios 96m with Radios

(Wargs) range calculations adopted.

The above technics alterations improve playability and the solid methodology further reflects actual capabilities.

Train Mod, trains retextured. (LAL_Rhone)
Hanger pack 2.0, over 100 new buildings (LAL_Rhone)
Fortifications mod (LAL_Rhone)

Cumulative Ship Damage Logging (FC & Chap)

Ground radar (Marz, 4Shades based upon original code by LesniHun)

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Infantry

FC (Idea & Initial classes and 3d) Delvper (TOW object conversions) and Chap (Development and il2/SEOW
integration) using some skins by LAL_Rhone.

New Infantry types that move and fire.
These are not perfect but are optimised to work with the SEOW system.

Moving infantry are available under the new Infantry option in FMB in 1,2,3 & 4's.
Most types are also available as Stationary Artillery.

These will move and fire. At close range <100m's they will also use explosive weapons so they do have some
capability against Tanks and other hard armoured vehicles.

Overview

Think of Infantry as representational rather that ‘exact’, this is similar to almost any war game.

Infantry are tougher than they should be, it takes about 10 7.6mm shots to kill a group of 3. (but they cannot hide
or use cover in il2 as they would in reality).

The follow on from this is that each group of 3 in game is loosely representational of about 10 men:-
So:-
4-XXInfantry is equivalent to a platoon.
3-4 X 4-XXXInfantry, a Company
9-12 X 4-XXXInfantry, a Regiment
36 X 4-XXXInfantry, a Brigade
100+ X 4-XXXInfantry, a Division
(it differs from nation to nation but you should get the drift.)

Firepower is representational also, The capabilities of the AT sections representing not only AT weapons, but
other explosives like grenades, Satchel Charges and Mortars indigenous to almost all armies of this period in
some form.

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Mission naming:-

The underlying il2fb.exe is Russian although all of the menus have been changed to English (or whatever you chose
under language).

For this reason if you wish to play old missions you must rename the mission properties files:-

Eg
brilliantmission.mis
briliantmission.properties would be your mission.

Change the missions properties files to:- brilliantmission_ru.properties and you will then get the briefing s back in
English.

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Additional Downloads:-


Download FULL 4.09 skins.

It is really worthwhile getting this part of 4.09. It adds a lot to the game.

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Features that have been Dropped from 4.0:-

FMB+

Full mission Builder Plus by (FC). Increased functionality for map builders.

If you are a mission builder or map designer this is highly recommended, however installed as standard it created
compatibility problems online and is quite bulky.

Anyone that knows enough to use this will also know enough to install it if they wish too is our logic !

QMB+

The 4.09 full release comes with a more developed version (also by FC) with more features , We ported this into HSFX as a better option.

Bearcat99
10-21-2009, 09:27 PM
Hmmmm This looks interesting.. but my squad are primarily Pony drivers... and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

LEBillfish
10-21-2009, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2

Rjel
10-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Now it flies like it should. Still stalls, still snap rolls but not so hap hazardly.

Waldo.Pepper
10-21-2009, 10:37 PM
So this works with the latest 409 then?

Is so then yippee and well done.

xTHRUDx
10-21-2009, 11:29 PM
Billfish, you don't have the 1.2 ?!?! i figured the new p-38s, p-51s,and b-25 with the correct 50 cal ammo would have won you over. i guess you're waiting on that new guinea map in 1.3, eh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

skarden
10-22-2009, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no,they've added another 4 or 5 new slot D model mustangs.

TooCooL34
10-22-2009, 02:30 AM
Technically it sounded great but after a few hours of fiddling around,
practically AAA UI is better than HSFX for me.

All in all, AAA UI team seems to know what players like me want, while HSFX not.
I see much faster loading time and maybe it is error free but many crucial mods are missing and mod enabler is not more intuitive.
I hope they provide their good programming skill to AAA UI team.
Let AAA UI team supervise and decide what to include or not and HSFX team refine them.
Just my 2 cents.

HSFX still is such a beautiflu work, it deserves standing ovation for their passion and skill.

msalama
10-22-2009, 04:40 AM
Thanks for the headsup Buzzsaw. Being a quality not quantity man myself this I think is the supermod I'll finally try... after having sat on the fence for a couple of years now mindya http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Frankly speaking I couldn't care less of all those AI planes made flyable, &c., but the new engine model with realistic torque is something I just _have_ to try. Any idea if it's available as a separate download somewhere?

Bearcat99
10-22-2009, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Now it flies like it should. Still stalls, still snap rolls but not so hap hazardly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rjel hit it on the head... and thew API belting is much better... The plane still stalls.. still snap rolls.. still has the elevator issues if you try to yank & bank.. but it is much more stable.. it still reqires trimming.. but it is not as twitchy.. It no longer feels like you are trying to balance it on the head of a pin..


Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Technically it sounded great but after a few hours of fiddling around,
practically AAA UI is better than HSFX for me.

All in all, AAA UI team seems to know what players like me want, while HSFX not.
I see much faster loading time and maybe it is error free but many crucial mods are missing and mod enabler is not more intuitive.
I hope they provide their good programming skill to AAA UI team.
Let AAA UI team supervise and decide what to include or not and HSFX team refine them.
Just my 2 cents.

HSFX still is such a beautiflu work, it deserves standing ovation for their passion and skill.

That was one of my concerns actually.. There are certain mods like the openable canopies on the P-40s & 190s, the splash screen mod, the skin mod, that require having access to those folders.. It would be nice if those mods could be placed in a folder that is accessible. I guess that might defeat the purpose of why they did it though.. but then that would be on the individual whether or not he was CRT=2 compliant or not.. and if he wasnt he wouldn't be able to get into CRT=2 servers..

T4T-TheProf
10-22-2009, 03:20 PM
Quote: Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Technically it sounded great but after a few hours of fiddling around, practically AAA UI is better than HSFX for me.

All in all, AAA UI team seems to know what players like me want, while HSFX not. I see much faster loading time and maybe it is error free but many crucial mods are missing and mod enabler is not more intuitive.

I hope they provide their good programming skill to AAA UI team. Let AAA UI team supervise and decide what to include or not and HSFX team refine them.
Just my 2 cents.

HSFX still is such a beautiful work, it deserves standing ovation for their passion and skill.
------------------------------------------------

This is actually a valid point, that we (The HSFX Team) have have said as well. This versions primary objective was for use with Scorched Earth Campaigns in mind. It can always be used to fly on On-line Servers, but it's not our primary target.

You can add the Mods you want to the HSFX 4.0 package though. That was always our intention. I think you could add all of the AAA 1.2 release over HSFX 4.0 and have it all (I've never tried it so I can't say for certain.).

Our objective always was not to put limits on anyone, we provide the things our community wants and then people can add anything on top of it they want.

The only downside is that we can support whats contained in HSFX Version 4.0, but if other Mods are added and someone has a problem, support becomes a problem. We will try to help of course, but it's tough to solve a problem with software you don't have. But, I don't expect people will have any problems adding Mods other than the type of problems people have been having since the beginning installing Mods. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
10-22-2009, 03:28 PM
That is good to know... Actually there isnt much that is not there... Do you folks intend on adding the recently added aircraft from UI1.2 anytime soon?

Extreme_One
10-22-2009, 03:46 PM
I'm really pleased to see that simply dropping mods into the MODS folder automatically activates them alongside the HSFX included content.

Great work.

cmirko
10-22-2009, 04:03 PM
first mirror for people unable to download torrents - please be sure to check md5 hash sums when downloading from filefront....

EDIT: Links to mods not allowed (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7441010176)


HSFX will have regular patches, creators of this mod pack are in excellent working relations with other major mod players (AAA, C6, Ultrapack) so we can all expect good things in the future http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cheers

T4T-TheProf
10-22-2009, 04:15 PM
That is good to know... Actually there isnt much that is not there... Do you folks intend on adding the recently added aircraft from UI1.2 anytime soon?

It was discussed with AAA, and they kindly said go ahead and include them. But they have done an awful lot of work on those planes and we thought they should have an exclusive on it, because our release dates were so close.

But they will be included in a future release.

Urufu_Shinjiro
10-22-2009, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by T4T-TheProf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That is good to know... Actually there isnt much that is not there... Do you folks intend on adding the recently added aircraft from UI1.2 anytime soon?

It was discussed with AAA, and they kindly said go ahead and include them. But they have done an awful lot of work on those planes and we thought they should have an exclusive on it, because our release dates were so close.

But they will be included in a future release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice, I like this attitude.

Rjel
10-22-2009, 04:38 PM
I think it bodes well for the future of IL2 that (for the most part) there seems to be some real cooperation between the various mod groups.

waffen-79
10-22-2009, 05:29 PM
Wasn't AAA the second "official" way to go?

HL servers changing to either UI 1.1.1 or 1.2

in this faster load time set of mods...

what if I want to change a texture in X cockpit?

what if I want to a sound in X plane?

I have a fresh copy of 4.08m and ui 1.1-1.2 plus several other mods

this could be getting out of hand as it is, right now I'm wishing official AAA word about compatibility with 4.09m final.

fabianfred
10-22-2009, 06:29 PM
Fortunately the cost of HDD space is minimal now...
I already have the following folders installed on my computer so this will just add another one.....I'm ready to try anything new....especially the new MDS mod to come soon with the radars and refuelling/rearming etc.

4.8/4.9/4.9b1m modded to hell/1.11 UI/1.2 UI/ 4.9+1.2 combined....... standby...wait..out

T4T-TheProf
10-22-2009, 07:31 PM
Well, no, there isn't an "official" way to go. Truth is we are all hacking someone else code. Fortunately for all IL-2 users, Oleg has a very enlightened and refreshing view on all this, or it couldn't be happening. The various Modder's for the most part, now work in many different groups with no affiliations. They build what they want to see, naturally, and there's no central control and there can't be.

The various groups are trying to cooperate and are trying to come to some type of common base for the sake of the on-line servers.

It's a difficult process, the Mods have had an extremely troubled past. There are a lot of hardened attitudes. But it is a work in progress.

This is just my opinion, but I think this release shows whats possible. It's a combination of many, many peoples work, everyone cooperating, Credit is given in all cases where we can find the author. It isn't the product of an individual or group, it's a collection of every one's work. It can be installed, configured and removed by someone without a great deal of computer skills.

I'm not sure what you mean by "what if I want to a sound in X plane?". By all means, you can go and do that if you want. There nothing in this release that stops you from Modding a mod.

Rjel
10-22-2009, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by T4T-TheProf:
Well, no, there isn't an "official" way to go. Truth is we are all hacking someone else code. Fortunately for all IL-2 users, Oleg has a very enlightened and refreshing view on all this, or it couldn't be happening.

How many new users to IL2 have been because of the availability of the mods? I've seen a lot of new names here in the last couple of years. Not all of it due to the fact IL-2 is modded for sure, but I'd wager a good share of them. Oleg is nothing if he isn't a good business man. He could have made life miserable for the modders and websites, this one in particular if he wanted. This sim was just dying a slow death before the mods came along. How many more sales did he make by not stopping fan developement?

LEBillfish
10-22-2009, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Now it flies like it should. Still stalls, still snap rolls but not so hap hazardly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeahhhhhhhhh.....how interesting and disconcerting.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

K2

Rjel
10-22-2009, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Now it flies like it should. Still stalls, still snap rolls but not so hap hazardly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeahhhhhhhhh.....how interesting and disconcerting.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't have to take my word for it. From previous posts, I think you respect Bearcats opinion. He's ok with 'em. Give them a try. I think you'd agree they aren't magic carpets by any means.

As to whether or not it's disconcerting, I can live with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEBillfish
10-22-2009, 09:10 PM
Not my point.....

"FM's and weapons will never be messed with"....

Now don't get me wrong, the AI made flyable often need correction, and obviously new aircraft. Yet if old flyables are being altered, to even if "old aircraft/new slot" planes are made, it starts messing with the curve doesn't it?

To a point "i'm guessing", FMs "in the base sim" are a sweeping thing wherein if you cange the FM, all aircraft get altered......Then there is the tweaking of individual aircraft........At that point JUST as it was when Oleg made them it is subjective, and we have seen how rediculously left field opinions on aircraft can be.

So, that said...........I take it the Ki-43's 4.07 stalls were fixed yes? Being it was probably one of the most forgiving aircraft.....Or what about the proven out Ki-61 windscreen oiling?....etc..

Wanna bet not?

How about all the nice reviews on .50 calibers on the whole...."whoa dude! I could never take down planes like this before, and now I can wings off kill 20 190's with split second bursts!".......Though an exageration, we've seen these posts since 1.2 came out.

So how is it that the good pilots here had no trouble with them before, and suddenly EVERYone here now finds .50 cals ace makers?

"Never" was the word.......So since never is shorter then "2 weeks", how balanced or true to real life was it ALL adjusted?

K2

Rjel
10-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Not my point.....

"FM's and weapons will never be messed with"....

Now don't get me wrong, the AI made flyable often need correction, and obviously new aircraft. Yet if old flyables are being altered, to even if "old aircraft/new slot" planes are made, it starts messing with the curve doesn't it?


This has been argued about for two years now. For the record, these are new slot A/C. Your tried and true planes aren't being touched to my knowledge. I personally feel it's a much closer representation to what I have read about the Mustang for many years. I'm confident the people doing the work on this model P-51 are doing an accurate representation of real life performance. Your mileage may vary.

fabianfred
10-22-2009, 11:10 PM
What size does this package add to our install?

Suppose my partition with a clean 4.09 has a spare 10-15 GB...would that be enough to install this?

BillSwagger
10-22-2009, 11:41 PM
I think it adds another 4 gigs to your 4.09m install, which comes out to about 10.3 gigs total.



Bill

Viper2005_
10-22-2009, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
I'm confident the people doing the work on this model P-51 are doing an accurate representation of real life performance. Your mileage may vary.

In that case I just hope they aren't the same people who made the Mosquito B.XVI...

Fehler
10-23-2009, 12:00 AM
@Billfish...

I think this is the one thing that has intrigued me since day one about the mods. None of these reputable groups have ever messed with the FM/DM of any official 1C aircraft.

If a group feels like an Oleg plane does not perform to spec, they make a brand new slotted plane separate from Oleg's and introduce it that way.

For example, I was flying on Spits v 109's yesterday. They use AAA's 1.2 with CRT=2. (CRT=2 means Check Runtime 2) This verifies that everyone is flying the same mods as far as the java class files that contain the FM/DM.

So, one entering knows that everyone else is on the same playing field. (That's reassuring)

Well, one map had one of these new P-51's that was included in the AAA 1.2 installer. I flew against it and I didnt notice any difference except that the .50 cals seemed to have a slightly better punch. It didnt turn faster or pull more G's than the other non-modded ones. It seemed quite normal to me to fly against it.

But the point here is, these are NEW planes not changes to Oleg made aircraft.

LEBillfish
10-23-2009, 12:49 AM
Please do NOT get me wrong.....

Oleg was not infalible and by no means does that mean that any changes made to his aircraft are wrong.....

However, the very same issues that affect the P51's, affect ALL the aircraft. As I used as an example the Ki-43 is an absolute joke now making FW's and P51's seem like Oaks.

Yet that is a result of the overall FM my guess. That means we all suffer.

Okay, so you make a new aircraft, though flying under the same FM it is tweaked to not be so affected by the FM all other aircraft live under..........Hence, you suddenly have imbalance.

Now I'm not saying there is an easy answer....In fact, I bet if you changed the FM, suddenly you'd have half the planes flying like crap the rest fixed up.....Yet if we think about it what was really different about these new P51's from the others in the sim as to stability. Was there some new wing design? Balance points change? New tail section? What?.....In kind what about the new ammo loadouts on the new aircraft? If you change for one you change for them all, or is it that they have their own custom ammo?

It's not saying the old were correct, nor is it saying the FM is, in fact the way these new aircraft are may be spot on.......What it is saying though is, these new aircraft are not as affected by the FM then the rest from what you all are saying.

.......and to that end we now have imbalance in the sim.

That's the point.......They either all need to be right, or all wrong. How it works be it for aircraft FM's/DM's and armament.

I'm not making a "Mods is evil" post.....Yet this goes back to the very issue that most had with them way back...........There are some awesome aircraft and weapons being made by those modding, many of them I am personally glad we're getting. Yet if they are being fixed for the sims failings, what do you then do about the rest?

K2

F19_Orheim
10-23-2009, 12:58 AM
gotta go with billfish on this one.
Once we start to fiddle with new "variants" of old planes, even if they are given new slots, the questions appear: "why not make new variants of this, and this and this..." ... will we have 10 new slots for each and every plane in order to say "well at least we didn't touch the original FM"?... and those "new" 50cals.. affect all planes right?

i am for mods, less more for "new" fm's on new "variants" of "old planes" and "for" a "lot" of quotation mark.

LEBillfish
10-23-2009, 01:19 AM
Well, it's not just P51's, as there are a lot of new FM aircraft and even some existing changed.......Yet again, not all, so no even across the board fix.

To be frank I could much easier deal with an overall FM change then a partial plane at a time.........As I can assure you the "uber/porked" debates are coming.

Lastly, some mods quite frankly I "personally" (so just anothers opinion) don't approve of in that they are not historically correct. Now I know the argument "so don't use them"....Okay, that's all good and fine, yet I have to face folks who do so have an option of either fly wrong to be on par, or fly right at a possible disadvantage.

There is so much to this very core issue...........

HOWEVER......I do not believe doing nothing is the answer either.

There is a sound, community acceptable answer out there, trick is to find it.

K2

doraemil
10-23-2009, 01:42 AM
Thanks, this seems pretty amazing.



Hmmmm ya know . . .


I have to agree with the LE and F19. All or nothing.

Even if its to make it closer to real, how about planes that weren't modded? The popular ones get new hotness FM's and the ones well are left with old and busted?

So like popular planes like Hellcats and Mustangs get the History Channel makeover so they perform and are the true war winners.

And certain planes like the Ki-43 or the 109E/F still have the old and busted FM?

I'd feel better if there was some sort of "official" team D or Oleg & crew sanctioned regulation that would balance out FM and weapons mods. That also allows community input but keeps the heart of the matter: making it accurate and balanced in terms of the current game FM and for all aircraft.

And also not catering to popular opinion or playing favorites but by using true historically accurate using many accounts:

first hand pilot / crew experiences, flight tests / results, actual engineering documentation / statistic compilations, and comparisons against other aircraft. Actual flight testing of restored airworthy . . .

And well some planes you can't get information like the push prop Shinden, so they would have to go with the design plans and set it so it has its performance strenths and weaknesses with its competitors (like F8F Bearcat). with the heart of the designers in mind . . . .



My own personal feeling is . . .it's ok to mod FM's or weapons for non online uses.

But modded FM's and Weapons online can gives the advantage to the modders. Especially for mods that aren't openly distributed.

I'm not saying that happens here, haven't seen this for myself.

But one place I know where this happens and its a very popular game and game company takes a much harder stance and spends alot of resource to police their policy of no game altering mods.

In MMO's (World of Warcraft) this is a big issue. My ex and I quit that game partly due to this reason. It's known there that guilds (squadrons) with powerful and very subtle and hard to detect mods usually only circulate them within as to keep the advantage to themselves. And some mods are manhattan project worthy and give amazing, amazing advantage to the users of that mod. So secrecy is a big must.

Blizzard (WOW's parent companY) takes a harsh approach to no mods and consistenly works to keep them out of the online, but still they are prevalent.

It sucks because to excel at that game its more about WHO you know than your gaming skill. Whats more sad is most warcraft players don't even know about those uber mods or dismiss their existence (addiction to the game is blinding) . . .

Its gotten so rampant that WOW tournaments ban the use of mods and custom PC's / keyboards and force players to use tournament stock machines / WOW installs.

Here though for IL-2 Oleg takes a balanced approach and the community is good at policing itself.

I'm probably going to get slammed here but I've had first hand experience on where mods are used to gain an unfair advantage.

And the easiest solution w/out official regulation is to just use stock online so everyone is at a level playing field.

Or maybe allow all mods like the sound or graphics ones . . . except those that add to, change or update FM and weapons unofficially.

Fehler
10-23-2009, 02:16 AM
I think there is some misunderstanding going on. Each and every plane in IL2 has it's own flight model and damage model. There is no "universal" FM/DM. So making a new plane with a new FM/DM means just that. It is different and separate than the others.

Now, as far as I understand it, each map has it's own separate parameters that will effect all planes, but that is the way it has always been. Remember when Oleg wanted us to make our tests on the Crimea map? That was because it was the most "neutral" map in the batch. Others have different pressures and temperatures, etc.

With the new P-51's, I do not know what was actually done to the flight model (if anything). I do know that API was added to the belting of the weapons which is correct for later year model .50 cals. This only applies to the planes that are modded. Not all .50 cal planes received the API belting, only the newly slotted planes.

Why?

To preserve the purity of the original aircraft as modeled by Oleg.

I remember when the big debate (a few years ago) about the 20mm guns on German aircraft. Oleg modeled the belting to Russian front standards, although a completely different belting was used in the west. For the Russian front, there were more AP rounds and less Mine rounds, where in the west they used more explosive rounds because their greatest threat was strategic bombers.

Now, again, I do not know exactly what was done to the flight model of the new slot P-51's. As a matter of fact, they may even be cloned from other variants which is what was done with the Sea Hurricanes.

Even with the API belting on the new Mustangs, one must still hit at convergence to get good effect. The API belting helps to ignite fires a little easier than before and do a little more structural damage than the other .50 cal Mustangs without the API.

Believe me, these are not "world beaters" by any stretch of the imagination.

To me, I think it's cool that players have an opportunity to experience more of this genre than was originally provided by the game's creator. It is a great tribute (IMHO) to the quality of game that Oleg devised nearly 8 years ago! It has opened the door to opportunities that were impossible before the mods.

For example, our group is currently experiencing a long campaign designed around the Mediterranean theater. We have Blenheims and Beaufighters and tropical 109's. We are using moving ships and columns that stop and fight each other. We have carrier based Martlets and (soon) the Swordfish. None of these things would have been possible without the hard work of talented modders.

Now, I too was once a HUGE skeptic. I remember the CFS days of super-human 109's and P-51's.

But this adventure is greatly different. These arent 12 year old kids that want to rack up 700 kills in a dogfight server; editing simple text documents to make their planes 3000 lbs lighter or their weapons hit like mini nukes.

These are responsible people that share the same love for this game as we all do. They have taken the things that we all wanted in the game and made it happen. They are the same people that used to frequent this very forum and took part in open discussion with Oleg about this sim. Far from the pasty-skinned, pimple faced kids that wrecked CFS because they couldnt get a girlfriend. LOL!

M_Gunz
10-23-2009, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out..

How is that?....FM's have changed?

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Now it flies like it should. Still stalls, still snap rolls but not so hap hazardly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeahhhhhhhhh.....how interesting and disconcerting.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Back to the pre-IL2 days again with hacked or open sims X, Y and Z.

This doesn't seem right --- tweak.
Well this plane should be faster than that one --- tweak.
But those should climb better -- tweak.
And these should accelerate better --- tweak.
Now those aren't faster any more --- tweak.
That's good but now these have an unfair advantage between 2km and 2.5km alt --- squeak.
Well I can prove that the energy retention is wrong with my special tests --- and so it goes.

Everyone who can come up with "a good reason" for "it should" can justify a mod to someone
who can't see why not, the same as it went before but of course THIS time the result will
be different uh-huh.

Food court at the mall. 12 little shops and 4 vending machines to pick from.

fabianfred
10-23-2009, 03:11 AM
The cynical remain as ever..cynical, the thankful remain thankful....and the rest are not sure who to follow....

Suck it and see has always been the best advice...and if it doesn't suit your taste , then spit it out....... but don't go snatching it out of the mouths of others.

Fehler
10-23-2009, 03:25 AM
Haha, I see your point Max.

But question... How is that different than what has happened to the original game throughout all it's patches and fixes?

When first released, all the "is correct, be sure" changed quite a bit. Doubt me? Dig out your original IL2 disc and install it.

Fly the planes, then patch to current game. If you dont notice differences... well then ya aint looking.

So, the question I ask is the same I asked way back then. If this is supposed to be correct, why was there a change? And now that there have been at least 20 changes... which one is/was right? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Remember the flying wooden tank Lagg? Has that stayed the same? Or the underperforming FW-190's? Did they stay the same? What about the amazing Super-Rata's? They are the same as they were originally modelled, right?

Now I know what people will say. Oleg made changes because:

1. better coding techniques.
2. more data for a particular aircraft
3. (my personal favorite) pressure from us; the end user.
4. because he hates country X aircraft.
5. because he loves country X aircraft.

But the fact remains, very little has changed in how an airplane is coded from the original game. So again I ask.. if it was sold as "this is correct" then why was it changed? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Patches are supposed to fix game bugs not game mistakes. Get what I am saying?

Nothing is perfect. That's just the truth about it. And even taking a pixel plane and making it perform exactly to documented standards cannot take into account that some (similar) planes were just built better than others. Some maintenance crews were better than others and could get better performance out of their plane than the next crew. No two similar aircraft will fly exactly like each other. Even being built in sequence on the same assembly line. The same holds true today. In the real world, nothing is perfect.

However...

At least the modders are leaving the original (Or should I say the changed over and over and over and over and over again by Oleg) planes and only making changes to a plane that will use a new slot. This is how the original game integrity has remained intact. Althought, the original game integrity hasnt remained intact if you really look at it. (I guess it's a matter of perspective) But at very least keeping with the spirit that only non-oleg planes receive FM/DM treatment is vastly different than the history behind game brand X Y Z. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Some of these guys actually built models for a lot of the planes that Oleg put in the game! That's quite different than what hapened in CFS.

BillSwagger
10-23-2009, 03:57 AM
In response to Fehler:

I think the concern for modded versions of planes is that its used as a work around to get planes into the game that might not otherwise meet the standards that 1c might want to include in a game. There are lots of great modded planes, and i really don't have a problem with them. Most servers online seem to sift through the BS, and never seem to include planes that are questionable anyway.

I also understand what you are saying about the patches of previous Il2. You also have to understand that as a developer sometimes your goal is to get your product out the door and onto the shelf so you can make money in order to keep making games. In this way, some planes probably got the shorter end, but i've also heard that the Il2 we know today is leaps and bounds over its original premise. Something about strictly flying only Il2s on the eastern front. So many planes were added to a game that really didn't have the capacity to play that way just yet.

The other reality is, in order to do all the testing and double/triple checking of flight models for historical accuracy, it would take many man hours. If the game were only 5 or 6 planes this might be easily achieved. Easy means cost effective. 20 planes becomes quite a task, 50 planes....100 planes....

You can see where this is going. Its far easier to just release your product and make corrections based on your consumer base. This might be far fetched, but i think this game was probably more popular in Europe and SOV/Russia before it was ever known about in the US. Thats why i think a lot of the Russian and German planes are bit more detailed and well armed in some aspects, but that discussion leaves too much for interpretation.

Mods are different, and are really the result of a game that was no longer being developed. So modders, some of them also developers, saw the potential to expand the game. I don't see a problem with it, because most modding sites also enforce strict standards. Someone also mentioned that anything game is hackable, and the existence of mods is simply a scapegoat, at times, for the reality that there are a lot of unemployed professionals with computer science degrees.

cmirko
10-23-2009, 04:02 AM
this discussion has gone was into OT (look at thread title please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

i will say only this, CRT=2 is a really good protection system, so far I have never seen anyone connect to my CRT=2 server with different mod packs....

cheers

BillSwagger
10-23-2009, 04:23 AM
now that i have HSFX working, which server would that be?

the one with two people on it...lol


just kidding. really which server.
I've had trouble getting on any server that has CRT=2, and i'm not sure why, my mods are legit.

Fehler
10-23-2009, 04:41 AM
Oh Billswagger, I truly understand what you are saying.

Even in our own little group, we test every "new" plane against the data we have and make sure it is within an acceptable tolerance before we use it in our on-line dynamic campaign.

Some mods meet our standards, some dont cut the mustard.

But the same goes on for most of the serious servers, and has since this game was flown originally. For example, some servers do not allow certain aircraft because they are deemed to "tip the balance of play" for one side or the other. The Ki-84C is a fine example of this.

Of course, I am not talking about the casual server that allows open dogfighting against non-combative types of aircraft (P-51's v Corsairs) and things like that. I am talking about the more serious servers that cater to the simulation part of this game; where simulating a particular battle or region is the agenda.

On those types of servers, the "suspect" aircraft are weeded out quite well, and quite rapidly.

Do the mods present a possibility for abuse? Sure.

But the mods bring so much more to the table than that. New maps. New sounds. New graphics. New possibilities.

It is quite hard to condemn the mods because of one or two minor issues when there are so many more things they bring to the table.

"So, what keeps people from making their own mods and bringing them to play?"

CRT=2 (Check runtime 2)

This is the same thing that keeps the stock game "non-cheat-able"

If a particular mod (java class - which is where the flight models and damage models are stored) is not present on a server, but is present on a client, the server kicks the client and he cannot join.

Now, this doesnt stop a client from installing a graphic mod to enhance his experience, like a custom painted cockpit or a sound modification to make his guns sound better to him; something like that. (For example, I have a picture of my wife in nearly every cockpit that I usually fly. She gets a kick out of it, and it adds immersion for me)

But if I were to attempt to join a CRT=2 server with a beefed up plane or weapons, I would get kicked.

Now, nothing is perfect. As a matter of fact, there have been ways around CRT=2 since Oleg designed it. But even in the "stock" servers, CRT=2 can be defeated. Usually, those people are discovered quickly and dealt with properly.

Look, all I am saying is that for me, the mods have added so much more to the game that I would have ever realized possible. And throughout this modded experience, I have yet to run across anything or anyone that was so suspect that I thought he or she was cheating.

But then again, I tend to fly on close pit, full switch servers where I know 99% of the people and have flown with and against them for a very long time now. I was laughing with someone the other day when a person I was fighting made a maneuver and I knew exactly who it was by the way he was flying. And I was right! ROFL! (How's that for knowing your enemy?!?) LOL!

Those arent the kind of people that cheat.

In closing I will say this... for those that have not tried the mods (and mean really given them a try) I feel you are cheating yourself out of many rewarding possibilities. For those that have and had a bad experience, I recommend trying them again and flying in places where the competition is more credible.

Oleg build a beautiful game for us to enjoy. The fact that we sit here years after it's conception and still talk about it can attest to that fact! But Oleg merely opened a door to another world. That world has yet to be fully explored...

Salute!

Manu-6S
10-23-2009, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
now that i have HSFX working, which server would that be?

the one with two people on it...lol


just kidding. really which server.
I've had trouble getting on any server that has CRT=2, and i'm not sure why, my mods are legit.

Read here...


Originally posted by T4T-TheProf:
This versions primary objective was for use with Scorched Earth Campaigns in mind. It can always be used to fly on On-line Servers, but it's not our primary target.

Fehler
10-23-2009, 04:50 AM
LOL...

Yeah, I am sorry I got off topic...

I just felt that there were some that had reservations about trying HSFX or any other main-line mod package.

---------

The biggest benefit of HSFX is the recompiled .sfs files back to their original compression as Oleg had intended the game to run.

It seems a little less resource demanding and a lot faster loading than the other standard mod packs.

That said, most of the main servers are utilizing the AAA unified installer 1.2 and CRT=2.

To the end user... it simply becomes a matter of choice. I use the AAA pack because:

1. I know most of the guys over there and have for a long time.
2. The servers I like to fly on use their installer.
3. Our online dynamic campaign (Forgotten Skies) uses AAA 1.2 with custom made features for our online war.

There ya have it... LOL Like anyone really wanted to know... ROFL!

Feathered_IV
10-23-2009, 05:16 AM
Would the 242 Squadron people ever release an SFS-creator tool that would allow offline users to package up their own custom installs into time saving SFS files? It's the one thing I've been hoping for, as I've spent a lot of time putting my own setup together, and it's massive. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

F19_Orheim
10-23-2009, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
The cynical remain as ever..cynical, the thankful remain thankful....and the rest are not sure who to follow....

Suck it and see has always been the best advice...and if it doesn't suit your taste , then spit it out....... but don't go snatching it out of the mouths of others.

well that is OT i my book.
Are discussions no allowed? just because we are "thankful", which we are (if you haven't seen than then your vision is quite selective), does that mean we are not allowed to be critical at times? are these issues only allowed for the "in-mods-circle-people" to discuss?
I think not.

Bearcat99
10-23-2009, 07:14 AM
Some of you are missing the point.. (perhaps not..) These new Mustangs are under the D-XXNT slot.. but the only thing that ha schanged about the FM is that it is just more stable.. and that is frankly something that, and I dont care what anyone says it's a fact, the P-51s have needed in this sim since FB. The planes were too skittish.. It was almost impossible to say, kick a little rudder to line up a shot.. because the plane was so skittish it was hard to control.. now it is more stable.. and the reason the 50s seem to have more punch is because they are belted with API rounds.. which is historically correct.

I dont think there are too many people who are modding FM's because "in their opinion it doesnt feel right.." From what I can tell most of the new variants have FMs that were tweaked based on a lot of research and longstanding well known issues.

IMO the thing that has kept this all in perspective and that will I seriously believe keep this sim from going the way that many others have once modded, is

A-The complexity of the code itself.
and
B-The overall integrity of this community at large.

Sure we have a few knobs in here.. but for the most part everyone modder and non modder alike just wants the best most accurate sim we can get. Where many differ is on how that accuracy can be delivered.. Some feel that Oleg is or should be the sole source, while others see and rerspect the quality work from other sources who are taking advantage of that cat that has been out of the bag for some time now.

From my perspective, the fact that Oleg has not condemned the whole process speaks volumes. I believe that once he saw that his sim was not being ruined as so many others were while not openly condoning the intitial process he has seen that these mods have been good for the sim overall, but I maintain that the best thing about this sim is us. It has always been that way, even though some of us were spoiled etc.. this community has always striven for accuracy & realism overall and it is that desire that drives most of this and keeps most of us here because even unmodded this is still the best most realistic WWII air combat sinm to date.

Meanwhile... can you get into CRT2 servers with this package.. considering whats in it or is it too diverse?

rnzoli
10-23-2009, 07:38 AM
I dont think there are too many people who are modding FM's because "in their opinion it doesnt feel right.."

For all what I know, there is clear pattern that FM/DM modding is always primarily driven by people who like that particular aircraft. So with credit to research etc., modding is already done to "improve" the FM/DM, instead of making it ever "worse". No one is taking an independent look on his work, since the work itself is done by the fans of the particular aircraft. So in all modding, you have a big risk of meeting the best ever documented performance parameters for your "improved" aircraft, rather than meeting the average performance on the field.

Now, this is where you can trust HSFX pack much better than anyone else! As the package is mainly for usage in SEOW campaigns, there is a regular counter-test (double checks) from capable and experienced pilots on the oppositie side, similar to testing "captured" aircraft. These tests are rather rigorous, and conducted in the framework of competitive online squadrons. You can't just shout in "your plane is a UFO" or "my plane is borked" (else your squadron commander will shut you up). If a biased plane enters the pack by any way, soon it will be tested and counter-tested by pilots flying with and against that type. In this test nothing is left unnoticed and uncorrected. If there is no agreement over where to adjust performance of a certain plane, there will be no possibility to use it in the campaigns (or the campaing itself will not fly). So usually the planes get tweaked into the middle of the availabel best-worst performance ranges by the HSFX contributors. So I trust the FM/DM/Weapons modelling in this pack the most.

Manu-6S
10-23-2009, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I dont think there are too many people who are modding FM's because "in their opinion it doesnt feel right.."

For all what I know, there is clear pattern that FM/DM modding is always primarily driven by people who like that particular aircraft. So with credit to research etc., modding is already done to "improve" the FM/DM, instead of making it ever "worse". No one is taking an independent look on his work, since the work itself is done by the fans of the particular aircraft. So in all modding, you have a big risk of meeting the best ever documented performance parameters for your "improved" aircraft, rather than meeting the average performance on the field.

Now, this is where you can trust HSFX pack much better than anyone else! As the package is mainly for usage in SEOW campaigns, there is a regular counter-test (double checks) from capable and experienced pilots on the oppositie side, similar to testing "captured" aircraft. These tests are rather rigorous, and conducted in the framework of competitive online squadrons. You can't just shout in "your plane is a UFO" or "my plane is borked" (else your squadron commander will shut you up). If a biased plane enters the pack by any way, soon it will be tested and counter-tested by pilots flying with and against that type. In this test nothing is left unnoticed and uncorrected. If there is no agreement over where to adjust performance of a certain plane, there will be no possibility to use it in the campaigns (or the campaing itself will not fly). So usually the planes get tweaked into the middle of the availabel best-worst performance ranges by the HSFX contributors. So I trust the FM/DM/Weapons modelling in this pack the most. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
+10000

Bearcat99
10-23-2009, 08:22 AM
For all what I know, there is clear pattern that FM/DM modding is always primarily driven by people who like that particular aircraft. So with credit to research etc., modding is already done to "improve" the FM/DM, instead of making it ever "worse". No one is taking an independent look on his work, since the work itself is done by the fans of the particular aircraft. So in all modding, you have a big risk of meeting the best ever documented performance parameters for your "improved" aircraft, rather than meeting the average performance on the field.

Granted.. be all that as it may very well be, the improvements to the Mustangs are very well done and long overdue, and they certainly don't render the Musatang to it's best ever performance.. it still over heats, you can still snap a wing if you dive too steeply and try to change direction.. you can still snap roll in a heartbeat if your AoA exceeds the limit.. and the engine still has a glass jaw as it should.. You still have to hit at convergence for best results, and you cant make that convergence too far out either... Overall a very well done mod... and I said what I said to signify that the people doing many of these FM mods don't want to take any aircraft out of it's historic niche.. they just want it to be there.. and I have to say that the new Mustang D-20,25 & 30 NTs do just that. IMO Fehler hit it on the head, and being someone who has fought against the Mustangs for years.. IMO his opinion on the new ones has some weight. I dont think he would bite his toungue of they were turned into studs that were widely different from the stock AC or way outside the historic performance.. and it is still a matter of who is behind the stick.

robtek1957
10-23-2009, 08:23 AM
I'll drink to that!

Manu-6S
10-23-2009, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
gotta go with billfish on this one.
Once we start to fiddle with new "variants" of old planes, even if they are given new slots, the questions appear: "why not make new variants of this, and this and this..." ... will we have 10 new slots for each and every plane in order to say "well at least we didn't touch the original FM"?... and those "new" 50cals.. affect all planes right?

i am for mods, less more for "new" fm's on new "variants" of "old planes" and "for" a "lot" of quotation mark.

I'm really curious about these new 50cals... 190s were hard beasts to bring down, but I could cut late 109s like they were made of butter.

Does this mean that now you can kill a 109s with 5 bullets?

Urufu_Shinjiro
10-23-2009, 09:18 AM
AFAIK, the only thing changed with the new 51's FM is the CoG was corrected for the issue with the center fuel tanks. We all know now that the center fuel tanks really messed up the stangs stability and was the first fuel to be burned off, but since il2 does not model fuel weight consumption, let alone from a particular tank, then the FM is inherently incorrect if modeled after having the center tank filled. By the time the 51's got anywhere near combat that center tank would be empty and the 'stang would be in fighting trim so to speak. And of course the API belting is long overdue.

I understand the reservations about who is fiddling with FM's and how rigorous their methods are, but from what I have seen the guys writing these FM's are being extremely careful and meticulous about their research. Lets face it, there is a lot more info out there on the net in 2009 than there was in 1999-2001 when oleg was researching his flight models.

T4T-TheProf
10-23-2009, 09:23 AM
As far a HSFX and Flight Models, almost all the changes were to four and two engine aircraft that were AI aircraft made flyable. For example, the B-17, with full fuel and bomb load was "floating" off the runway in about 200 ft., then climbing like a ballon. Also it would float over the runway on landing with engines throttled back to 0. Eventually it would just drop and crash on the runway. It was ruining the experience of flying it. So we altered it into a much heavier aircraft.

We can't claim, and won't try and say it's exactly absolutely correct. But we can say it's far better than it was. The other 4 and 2 engine aircraft were much the same. They weren't made easier to fly, they were made harder to fly. We don't touch any of Oleg's FM's ever.

BTW, just to be clear to anyone reading this, the P-51 changes weren't introduced by HSFX or included in the HSFX release. This is the AAA 1.2 release.


Feathered_IV

Would the 242 Squadron people ever release an SFS-creator tool that would allow offline users to package up their own custom installs into time saving SFS files? It's the one thing I've been hoping for, as I've spent a lot of time putting my own setup together, and it's massive.

I'm afraid we can't. It was offered to us with conditions, one of which is, we can't distribute it.

Uncle_Stranger
10-23-2009, 10:36 AM
I read that infantry is also in this pack, so now I'd like to know how it functions and if somebody could please post a screen shot of them. Thank you

HayateAce
10-23-2009, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
AFAIK, the only thing changed with the new 51's FM is the CoG was corrected for the issue with the center fuel tanks. We all know now that the center fuel tanks really messed up the stangs stability and was the first fuel to be burned off, but since il2 does not model fuel weight consumption, let alone from a particular tank, then the FM is inherently incorrect if modeled after having the center tank filled. By the time the 51's got anywhere near combat that center tank would be empty and the 'stang would be in fighting trim so to speak. And of course the API belting is long overdue.

I understand the reservations about who is fiddling with FM's and how rigorous their methods are, but from what I have seen the guys writing these FM's are being extremely careful and meticulous about their research. Lets face it, there is a lot more info out there on the net in 2009 than there was in 1999-2001 when oleg was researching his flight models.

10-4 Good Buddy.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The "new slot" P51D's are really terrific aircraft. One of my training regimens in QMB is to allow an enemy a/c close up on my six, then initiate a scissors. Previously, this was practically impossible to do in the P51D. One or two turns into it, and the drunken sailor FM put you right into the dirt.

The fun is certainly back in the P51D. I'm having some terrific fights with the P51D vs Ki84's and Ki100's.

Waldo.Pepper
10-23-2009, 10:46 AM
I had the pleasure of installing the HSFX last night and playing around with it for hours.

About new planes added ...


Originally posted by T4T-TheProf:
"floating" off the runway in about 200 ft., then climbing like a balloon."... and ... "it would float over the runway on landing with engines throttled back to 0. Eventually it would just drop and crash on the runway. It was ruining the experience of flying it."

Actually I still find this to be the case with the majority of the 'new' planes added.

Halifax, Swordfish, Avenger, Panther, Catalina to name a few.

I shall play around with the installation before further condemning all the hard work that undoubtedly went into this install.

I love the ease of install and the quicker loading - those aspects of the install are sensational and now that they are available it is near criminal to not have these aspects incorporated into other offering from other groups to me.

In my opinion they all seem to fly closer to the Goodyear blimp than anything else in the game. And like the quote above this ruins the experience for myself - so far.

I realize that some will say that this is the nature of the various mod install packages, that they are in effect all a work in progress. But so far for me playing with a work in progress makes me want to stand up from my desk and walk away from the game. It completely ruins Il-2 for me. I want, I need - a polished finished product.

It is as if someone walked up to the Mona Lisa with a can of spray paint and painted bigger boobs on her. (I think most of us can agree that poor old Mona is a little flat chested - but still. Modding her into a caricature of Pamela Anderson ruins her.)

The unpolished flight models make the game into the CFS series for me. (And the absolute clincher for me is the addition of the creaking wooden battleship sounds when the airframes are under stress. OMG I hate that!)

Still trying to keep an open mind, and despite what I wrote I sincerely appreciate the effort and passion and dedication of those who give their time and talents to the cause. I started to think about all the collective man hours needed to bring one plane or a map to the table. I cannot imagine the tens of thousand of hours that this must total. It is either colossally impressive of horrifying. Frankly, not sure on this. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HayateAce
10-23-2009, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:


I'm really curious about these new 50cals... 190s were hard beasts to bring down, but I could cut late 109s like they were made of butter.

Does this mean that now you can kill a 109s with 5 bullets?

OFFLINE:

The new belting does NOT equal WonderAmmo.

The dispersion looks wider, kind of like back in the day when US a/c first came to the sim. From longer distance, the best you hope for is some surface damage to degrade your opponent's aircraft. You have to close up and really punch your target with a good burst. Initially, I am experiencing fewer wing removals against anything except Zeros.

The number uno change is the tracers. Much, much better. The two things many of us were asking for: You can now see the darn things, and they "burn" for a longer distance. This is how I am now hitting my targets harder. Regarding the sounds, the interior sounds seems fine, but the exterior needs some work.

One other aspect that is not related to the weapons themselves, is that in the case of the P51D, you have better control since the drunken sailor FM has been fixed. Now when an enemy pulls a Split S, I actually have a chance of hitting his plane. Without the bobble nose, I can use rudder inputs at this point to actually aim. I am finding many more shot opportunities than before.

M_Gunz
10-23-2009, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Fehler:
Haha, I see your point Max.

But question... How is that different than what has happened to the original game throughout all it's patches and fixes?

When first released, all the "is correct, be sure" changed quite a bit.

I remember the FM's being told to be where possible within 5% and mostly closer than that. And the words "hardware limits"
being used often. On some things "is correct" was told like the 190A-4 ATA for that Russian Front model. And I remember
not agreeing about The Bar and The Trim but dealing with those anyway.

Today we don't have models on steroids but from the history of mods I know the "just a little more" principle does happen.
Some of the things sure to be "fixed" in FM are piloting problems that Aces didn't write as having simply because they flew
right but with enough dumbing down won't give Johnny "I read a book, I know how it should be." Joystick any trouble either.

The good news is there can be servers for anybody who wants that. The bad news is when half or more the servers are that.
How many servers are running 4.09 now and how many are waiting for 4.09 compatible mod patches first?
But really WTH when SoW is coming along?

LEBillfish
10-23-2009, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Fehler:
I think there is some misunderstanding going on. Each and every plane in IL2 has it's own flight model and damage model. There is no "universal" FM/DM. So making a new plane with a new FM/DM means just that. It is different and separate than the others.

I'm not so sure that is correct......

Virtually every patch issued by Oleg there was a FM change.......You cannot tell me he sat down and altered every single aircraft.

My "guess" is there are two aspects to FM.
1. A universal "Flight Engine" if you will, this produces the characteristics of lift, drag, stall, etc.. and is universally applied over the entire sim. IOW, if an aircraft has this wing area, this distance to the elevator from the pivot, this weight, this power, etc. etc. you get "X" result.
2. An individual aircraft FM...Here you input all the criteria for the above, HP, weight, wing area, etc..

Think of item 1 as an algebra equation...Lots of A,B,C variables.....Think of item 2 as what each variable is.

So, you alter item 1 determining that say gravity is more realistic if x=.5y*23.87654/2 within the item 1 equation, and you have to do nothing with all the A-B-C-X-Y-Z variables...you simply get a result.....However.....That means where in this and that aircraft are now flying better, that one and that one are way off base......So at that point you go in and make little adjustments to item 2 per aircraft to bring them back into spec based upon the new "flight engine".

That's my guess anywho............


YET..........Not the point.....


SO let me come out and say it.....

These very questions, fears and concerns were voiced by the "anti-modders" from day 1. The crux of the entire thing was "across the board consistancy"....NOT some sacred "Oleg FM".

That means that to truly deal with this issue, item 1, the flight engine if you will needs to be looked at....Yet to change it means EVERY aircraft will change........Now fears of lack of consistancy have been proven out by the "MODDING COMMUNITY". Proof being, at this site X/Y/Z mods are not allowed, at the other site the other guys, back and forth everyone doing their own thing and shunning the rest.

So each starts wrestling for who's mod set is the one....AAA taking great steps with the UI, 242 with their SFS method, each having their merits and I'm sure SAS and so on as well. To a great degree they all "help" security and consistancy......Then comes along DT with the official 4.09 and wham, new player in the mix.

242Sq. then takes from the other groups for HSFX 4.0, even able to overlay it over 4.09....YET....As can be seen in this thread doesn't offer all of what the players want.

Lastly, we see all these groups, even DT willing to discuss working somewhat together.....Anyone seeing the answer yet?

It's now time if it has not already happened (in that I'm not privey to the behind the scenes management of the modding groups)...That all these groups get together and apply all their work able to cross check one another and offer a true community wide patch.

Now I do not expect DT to suddenly pick up all the final work, nor any group, yet "what if" 242Sq. utilizes their SFS & Java checking magic, AAA accumulating the bulk, SAS doing what they do (don't know never been to their site, ETC. ETC.......In the end, DT doing nothing more then perhaps just being kept in the loop, their level of involvement up to them, you have the following result:

1. A real "patch/add-on", not bits and pieces that can be chopped out or easily altered.
2. The security that only an SFS patch can bring. AAA made great strides and efforts with U.I., it is more secure, yet not as much as 242sq. method.
3. You get many more mods in that the SFS files are smaller so finding a reasonable limit may be bigger then what 242sq. offers, yet smaller then U.I.
4. You get consistancy, everyone is running the same thing no matter where you get your mods from.....and those individual aspects folks want can be added over yet are truly kept seperate wherein UI to a great degree really dominates the software.
5. Faster load times....Say what you want, many saying it loads fast simply to be contrary as in "fast enough"....Yet 4.08 loads miles faster, I'd like that back.
6. Bug checking....The concept 242 offers regarding checking for bugs and java conflicts I really like.....and yes there are problems.
7. Better compatibility with DT....More so, they might just get on board.
8. With such a community wide patch such things as FM's, DM's, Weapons can all be messed with YET on a even keel, all aircraft either reaping or suffering from the benefits.......It makes the FM/DM/Weapons issues mute.
9. No one has a leg to stand on about modding, it then balanced, fair, everyone flying the same sim.


etc..

The modding community is "that close"......Trick will be if they can really work together and remember......."This was meant to be a historical flight simulation"....Not just a game.

Now go back and read what I said when modding first came out........There it is again.

K2

waffen-79
10-23-2009, 02:18 PM
I like to think AAA set of mods DON'T alter existing oleg's planes in anyway except

Retexturing cockpits
Assigning cockpits to non flyables

I know some tweaks have been made to AI planes in order to make them flyable

I don't even stop for a moment to think about new slot planes, I mean, if you fly on a server that features them you do it at your own risk

Can any of you guys, maturely say, which stock ac has been touched?

Rjel
10-23-2009, 02:57 PM
I guess I don't get the concern with online flyers. If the mods are an issue why not just fly the unmodded game? If it's a server issue that some users feel there aren't any places left to fly the version you want online why not host your own? I don't fly online much anymore so the issues raised by some here don't really concern me.

Just looking at the AAA website shows 39599 registered users. I've no idea how many users there are here, but I'd bet not nearly as many. Obviously there are many people who have learned how to use mods in a way that works for them. That, in the end, is all that matters.

wolf-striked
10-23-2009, 03:57 PM
Hi guys.I was an avid IL2 player yrs back but left when Oleg installed the new FM.It had an issue for me and many that was termed wobbles.I just couldn't seem to live with the massive instability that Oleg claimed was either realistic or in my head.Some people had it while others didn't and it just ruined the game for me.

For the past few years I have watched SOW with anticipation but also dread that Oleg was still finding this unstable FM to be accurate.So I ask....do the mods remove the "wobbles"......does anyone even remember the term wobbles?

~S~ all

Urufu_Shinjiro
10-23-2009, 04:21 PM
You left too soon, the wobbles got toned down a lot like 1 or 2 patches later.

thefruitbat
10-23-2009, 05:06 PM
patch 4.02. the horror.

patch 4.04, the joy!

wolf-striked
10-23-2009, 05:28 PM
Say it aint so http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I was angry and sad at same time that I left.I am in process of defragging right now and will do a reinstall and add this HSFX 4.0 mod in.

fabianfred
10-23-2009, 07:28 PM
I tried the Infantry...no screenshot yet...
A group of four men represent a platoon and move slowly along to the sound of footfalls in boots....they fire at enemy..(I set them on the new Midway map and landed my D3A there)...some of the groups have a bazooka so will engage tanks too.... my plane was set on fire by ground fire whilst parked....not sure if they will fire at planes in the air.

Bearcat99
10-23-2009, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by wolf-striked:
Say it aint so http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


That's what you get for jumping ship... If Oleg has taught me nothing else it is that when it comes to flight sims he & 1C know their stuff.. and all these great mods we now have wouldn't be here if the original canvas & paint of IL2 had never been made...

and don't you forget it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

I still cant believe that I am still here.. If someone had told me in 2001 that I was getting into something that I'd be doing prety regularly over the next decade I would have told them they were crazy.. but it has been a great ride.

wolf-striked
10-23-2009, 07:53 PM
I know what you mean Bearcat and good to see you again as I easily remember Bearcat.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The next step in simulations is coming around the bend,I can feel it!!

Box-weasel
10-23-2009, 08:07 PM
Back on topic 4 a moment please,

Is my patch order
my DLd D2Drive 4.08m==>HC's patch==>HSFX 4.0==> 4.09m ?

Appreciate any help. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Ibis
10-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Installation Instructions for History Mod Version 4.0

That's a no no.. I just saw this.

Endy1
10-26-2009, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the heads-up on this Buzzsaw.

4.09 Final is a fantastic job, but I did miss the modded sounds and 6DOF.
Now with this HSFX, I have everything. Plus a load of things I didn't expect.

Installed without probs. Nice one Buzz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

willyvic
10-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Guys, discussing the mods is allowed. Specific help on installing, running, fixing, deleting, etc is not. Please abide by the rules or this thread may have to go bye-bye.

WV

Metatron_123
10-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but can you add individual mods over this install?

thefruitbat
10-27-2009, 12:58 PM
yes

robtek1957
10-27-2009, 02:22 PM
I've been testing the HSFX Mod and i like it very much.
However i found a little discrepancy, the speed of the Bf109 F1 and F2.
Here is a little chart i've made:


Bf109 E1 with Mod 450 km/h

Bf109 E3 Original 500 km/h

Bf109 E4 with Mod 450 km/h without Mod 450 km/h

Bf109 E7/N with Mod 444 km/h

Bf109 E//Z with Mod 446 km/h without Mod 450 km/h

Bf109 F1 with Mod 435 km/h Original 486 km/h

Bf109 F2 with Mod 428 km/h without Mod 480 km/h Original 486 km/h

Bf109 F4 with Mod 479 km/h without Mod 480 km/h Original 526 km/h

Bf109 F5 with Mod 471 km/h

This date was gathered offline in the QMB, Moskau 1 Map with 100% Fuel
cooling flaps auto (same flight time for all)
Start in 1000 m, split s to 300m throttle advanced from 0 to 100% and waited for stabilized speed.
Sorry i couldn't do a nice chart here.
I think the F1 and the F2 should be considerably faster than the Emils!
The Original Data is from Kurfurst's page and flown with take off power,
that might be 110%.

waffen-79
10-27-2009, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
yes

Hi mate, I need clarification on this, I think I was misunderstood earlier

All I was saying is "what if I needed to alter or mod a texture of a cockpit?"

after this install I can override the SFS and instead load a folder of a mod?

regards

Buzzsaw-
10-27-2009, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by robtek1957:
I've been testing the HSFX Mod and i like it very much.
However i found a little discrepancy, the speed of the Bf109 F1 and F2.
Here is a little chart i've made:


Bf109 E1 with Mod 450 km/h

Bf109 E3 Original 500 km/h

Bf109 E4 with Mod 450 km/h without Mod 450 km/h

Bf109 E7/N with Mod 444 km/h

Bf109 E//Z with Mod 446 km/h without Mod 450 km/h

Bf109 F1 with Mod 435 km/h Original 486 km/h

Bf109 F2 with Mod 428 km/h without Mod 480 km/h Original 486 km/h

Bf109 F4 with Mod 479 km/h without Mod 480 km/h Original 526 km/h

Bf109 F5 with Mod 471 km/h

This date was gathered offline in the QMB, Moskau 1 Map with 100% Fuel
cooling flaps auto (same flight time for all)
Start in 1000 m, split s to 300m throttle advanced from 0 to 100% and waited for stabilized speed.
Sorry i couldn't do a nice chart here.
I think the F1 and the F2 should be considerably faster than the Emils!
The Original Data is from Kurfurst's page and flown with take off power,
that might be 110%.

Oleg does all his testing on the Crimea map I believe.

thefruitbat
10-27-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
yes

Hi mate, I need clarification on this, I think I was misunderstood earlier

All I was saying is "what if I needed to alter or mod a texture of a cockpit?"

after this install I can override the SFS and instead load a folder of a mod?

regards </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As i understand it, anything you place in the mods folder, will overwrite the complied mods.

Its certainly worked for the few i've felt the need to add like the widescreen and orig qmb mod(i think its better than the 4.09 version.)

However, i imagine it's probally impossible to add planes themselves, because that needs a change to the compiled buttons file.

SAW_343
10-27-2009, 05:00 PM
Is 15 hours to download this using torrent a normal amount of time?
AT&T internet.

SAW_343
10-27-2009, 05:55 PM
nevermind, answered ny own question. Just upgraded to dsl elite

mortoma
10-27-2009, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Hmmmm This looks interesting.. but my squad are primarily Pony drivers... and the UI1.2 Mustangs are a MUST HAVE for us.. I th8ink I'll do a clean install and check this out.. I've been extensively testing all new Stangs in 1.2 mods against the older ones. I just keep doing a QMB where I lead 4 Stangs against 4 Bf-109K4's and keep changing to different Mustangs to see if I notice much difference or do better with the newer Mustangs. Me and my 4 AI flight mates do as well with the old Mustangs as with the new ones. I fly with 25% fuel and notice a slight improvement in handling but not enough to make a difference. Stalling and snapping and other quirks is not a problem for me since I always fly the Mustang smoothly and never hamfist her. I never push it past the envelope it's capable of. The newer ones wobble a little less than before. You can get your guns stabilized on target about a second faster on average.

So for this reason, the new ones don't help me that much. Apparently it has little if any effect on the way the AI fly them also.

Rjel
10-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
...I fly with 25% fuel and notice a slight improvement in handling but not enough to make a difference. Stalling and snapping and other quirks is not a problem for me since I always fly the Mustang smoothly and never hamfist her. I never push it past the envelope it's capable of. The newer ones wobble a little less than before. You can get your guns stabilized on target about a second faster on average.

So for this reason, the new ones don't help me that much. Apparently it has little if any effect on the way the AI fly them also.

But is flying with 25% fuel realistic? IRL a Mustang pilot would well be on his way home at that point. If he wanted to get home that is. For my money that is the beauty of the newer Mustangs. You can fight them with a real life fuel load and still not suffer from the problems of the original IL2 P-51s.

Sillius_Sodus
10-28-2009, 01:09 PM
First, let me congratulate the creators of this mod for their fine work. I downloaded the package via bit torrent in about 2.5 hours. The installation worked the first time, something that has not happened for me with the other mod packs. For the "tinkering challenged" like me this is a real treat! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The game runs well and sounds fine too, even in mono.

On the other hand, and please don't take this as negative criticism, nice as they are, I still prefer the original cockpits and terrain textures.

So for me HSFX4 is a 9.5/10. Nice work! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

skarden
10-28-2009, 02:26 PM
Mmmm now this looks like a fantastic mod package,I really like the New engine mod with extra torque and warm up times needed.
As soon as U.I. 1.2 is 4.09 compatible I'm gunna try and install both into an install and create an ultimate offline capaign version! mwahahahaha

Great work to all involved http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bearcat99
10-28-2009, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I've been extensively testing all new Stangs in 1.2 mods against the older ones. I just keep doing a QMB where I lead 4 Stangs against 4 Bf-109K4's and keep changing to different Mustangs to see if I notice much difference or do better with the newer Mustangs. Me and my 4 AI flight mates do as well with the old Mustangs as with the new ones. I fly with 25% fuel and notice a slight improvement in handling but not enough to make a difference. Stalling and snapping and other quirks is not a problem for me since I always fly the Mustang smoothly and never hamfist her. I never push it past the envelope it's capable of. The newer ones wobble a little less than before. You can get your guns stabilized on target about a second faster on average.

So for this reason, the new ones don't help me that much. Apparently it has little if any effect on the way the AI fly them also.

Yeah but that second can mean the difference between making a shot and missing a shot.. That's what I like about them.. They only seem to correct the one quirk.. well the 2 quirks in the stock ponies if you consider the belting.. They don't turn the plane into a UFO.. or an UBER weapon.. in the hands of a hamfisted beginner (or vet for that matter) it is still a death trap.. but it is just a bit more stabel and in line with the historic Mustang.. which was all I ever wanted..


Originally posted by skarden:
Mmmm now this looks like a fantastic mod package,I really like the New engine mod with extra torque and warm up times needed.
As soon as U.I. 1.2 is 4.09 compatible I'm gunna try and install both into an install and create an ultimate offline capaign version!


Yeah I always thought that torque/warm up thing was great..

thefruitbat
10-28-2009, 04:06 PM
Don't know about anyone else but i've got two new favorite planes from hsfx, which are new to me, having never had the ultrapack. And thats the fw190a2 and more surprisingly to me,the hurricane mk1b, it rocks big time, i prefer it to the spits at the moment.

fruitbat

timholt
10-29-2009, 11:58 PM
I have to say I am mucho impressed with the professionalism of this mod and the great load times.
This will do for me for some time to come I think.

Metatron_123
11-05-2009, 04:29 PM
Oh hey, it says here propwash is modelled. Now this should be interesting...

SAW_343
11-25-2009, 07:00 PM
where can I re-download this? The links I used before on other forums are broken.

timholt
11-25-2009, 08:22 PM
Google 242 Squadron

SAW_343
11-25-2009, 08:50 PM
I did. Those are the links that are broken. Antwhere else or is that it?

Thanks in advance.

Bearcat99
11-25-2009, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Fehler:
@Billfish...

I think this is the one thing that has intrigued me since day one about the mods. None of these reputable groups have ever messed with the FM/DM of any official 1C aircraft.

If a group feels like an Oleg plane does not perform to spec, they make a brand new slotted plane separate from Oleg's and introduce it that way.

For example, I was flying on Spits v 109's yesterday. They use AAA's 1.2 with CRT=2. (CRT=2 means Check Runtime 2) This verifies that everyone is flying the same mods as far as the java class files that contain the FM/DM.

So, one entering knows that everyone else is on the same playing field. (That's reassuring)

Well, one map had one of these new P-51's that was included in the AAA 1.2 installer. I flew against it and I didnt notice any difference except that the .50 cals seemed to have a slightly better punch. It didnt turn faster or pull more G's than the other non-modded ones. It seemed quite normal to me to fly against it.
But the point here is, these are NEW planes not changes to Oleg made aircraft.

From what I understand thye only difference is that they changed the length by @ a foot or less.. it changed the CoG which was why the Mustang was so unstable..

TheGrunch
11-25-2009, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
From what I understand thye only difference is that they changed the length by @ a foot or less.. it changed the CoG which was why the Mustang was so unstable..
Yeah, according to Kwiatek, the length data in the FM was set as 9.38 metres instead of 9.83...just an honest typo.

stalkervision
11-26-2009, 07:32 AM
All I can say is WOW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

thefruitbat
11-26-2009, 07:43 AM
good news, hsfx4.1 is in beta testing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Falcon_41
11-29-2009, 03:36 PM
Gents,

Sorry if this has been addressed earlier or somewhere else, although I did have a wee look around, but is anyone having a game freeze when attempting to do a screen shot while in an HSFXv4 session?


Thanks,


=FI=Falcon

fabianfred
11-29-2009, 03:45 PM
Not only in HSFX but also UI...if the mission is very busy and it is on a large map I have often had the screenshot freeze the game..... in which case i tend to pause the game and use the PrtScr key....then minimise and open Paint and paste and save it...
My default key for in game screenies is F12...

jamesblonde1979
11-29-2009, 09:52 PM
One happy customer here, thanks for bringing it up!

mortoma
11-30-2009, 08:14 PM
I have a really good question! Since they use SFS files, is there any way to disable features or cockpits you don't like?? I mean you may not agree with everything that a modder does. I usually don't accept everything. I'm really picky about my mods. At least with the old AAA system, you could absolutely disable things you didn't like. I'm thinking this SFS file thing will disallow disabling things?? Possibly??

ElAurens
11-30-2009, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
.... in which case i tend to pause the game...

Not an option for us online flyers.

And yes I've had screenshots totally freeze my computer to the point of having to do a hard re-boot. Try giving more space to your virtual memory, I've heard that may help.

Buzzsaw-
11-30-2009, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I have a really good question! Since they use SFS files, is there any way to disable features or cockpits you don't like?? I mean you may not agree with everything that a modder does. I usually don't accept everything. I'm really picky about my mods. At least with the old AAA system, you could absolutely disable things you didn't like. I'm thinking this SFS file thing will disallow disabling things?? Possibly??

Salute Mortoma

HSFX uses the JGSME selector, which allows you to pick the mods you want to use. You just move the mods you want to the right side, keep the ones you don't want on the left.

http://www.242sqn.com/Temporary/JSGME.jpg

HSFX is going to release their 4.1 patch very soon, and it will include all the new content from UP 1.8 and AAA 1.2 and 1.25, with all the Java errors fixed and the material in .sfs files for quick loading and smooth running.

mortoma
11-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
I have a really good question! Since they use SFS files, is there any way to disable features or cockpits you don't like?? I mean you may not agree with everything that a modder does. I usually don't accept everything. I'm really picky about my mods. At least with the old AAA system, you could absolutely disable things you didn't like. I'm thinking this SFS file thing will disallow disabling things?? Possibly??

Salute Mortoma

HSFX uses the JGSME selector, which allows you to pick the mods you want to use. You just move the mods you want to the right side, keep the ones you don't want on the left.

http://www.242sqn.com/Temporary/JSGME.jpg

HSFX is going to release their 4.1 patch very soon, and it will include all the new content from UP 1.8 and AAA 1.2 and 1.25, with all the Java errors fixed and the material in .sfs files for quick loading and smooth running. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is totally superb and then worth downloading then. Massive coolness!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

F19_Orheim
12-01-2009, 02:46 AM
I was under the impression that Screenshotprint during a mission will make the game stop (in mod packs) in order to prevent screenshotprint cheat.. I might be wrong.

Falcon_41
12-01-2009, 08:45 AM
Orheim,

Interesting, did you read this somewhere?


Falcon

thefruitbat
12-01-2009, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
I was under the impression that Screenshotprint during a mission will make the game stop (in mod packs) in order to prevent screenshotprint cheat.. I might be wrong.

I take screenshots using printscreen all the time, with all the different packs...

F19_Orheim
12-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Falcon_41:
Orheim,

Interesting, did you read this somewhere?


Falcon

read it at UP site:

Quote from: xxxxx on November 15, 2009, 04:03:28 AM
print screeen crashes the game

Yes IF you fly on-line. Its another prevention measure of the last patch for the print-screen cheat. Offline works fine.

ElAurens
12-01-2009, 10:58 AM
That is utter nonsense.

Needs to be removed from any further development of merged mod installers.

thefruitbat
12-01-2009, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
That is utter nonsense.

Needs to be removed from any further development of merged mod installers.

Why?

When you fly online, just record an ntrk, and then take screenshots from that.

Falcon_41
12-01-2009, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
...

Why?

When you fly online, just record an ntrk, and then take screenshots from that.


Well, that would work, if you had the space, if you had the time, if you knew how to do it and if you remembered or thought you would need to start a recording.

Sure you can do it, but there's no "just" to it. Come ON man.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Falcon

thefruitbat
12-01-2009, 11:33 AM
err, its a press of a button, space is negliable, i mean come ON man.

F19_Orheim
12-01-2009, 11:38 AM
I actually think it's a very good idea.

Willi_Wombatt
12-01-2009, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
err, its a press of a button, space is negliable, i mean come ON man.


LOL

Hey, I've been there. You forget! You need to wade through twenty minutes of recording, and then you miss the picture. Arg!

I mean, come ON!

But once you get familiar with it and the rest of the squadron gets familiar with it, then it is kinna a good idea, sorta.


WW

BillSwagger
12-01-2009, 01:24 PM
You should really be using FRAPS for screen shots. It has no in game interference and doesn't require that you record a track ahead of time.

I think it should cause an autokick for those that choose to abuse the feature.


Bill

Rjel
12-02-2009, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
You should really be using FRAPS for screen shots. It has no in game interference and doesn't require that you record a track ahead of time.

I think it should cause an autokick for those that choose to abuse the feature.


Bill

I don't understand everyones love affair with Fraps to take screen shots. It's just another program robbing system resources from a sim that demands all it can get. Plus you're limited to what Fraps records on screen.

It's really so easy to use the screenshots feature in game. As was suggested use the .ntrk feature and get your screens from that. You can't pose the screen shot while flying like you could from the recording. Unless you're flying 2 or 3 hour missions it doesn't take that long to review your flight. Even if your missions are longer, you can make shorter multiple .ntrks in the same flight.

T_O_A_D
12-03-2009, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by Rjel:

It's really so easy to use the screenshots feature in game. As was suggested use the .ntrk feature and get your screens from that. You can't pose the screen shot while flying like you could from the recording. Unless you're flying 2 or 3 hour missions it doesn't take that long to review your flight. Even if your missions are longer, you can make shorter multiple .ntrks in the same flight.

+1

Mercanario
12-05-2009, 09:22 PM
Ive tried downloading the torrent files from the 242 sqdn website, all i get is a 404 not found on this server message for both files..anyone else having problems?

cmirko
12-06-2009, 12:52 PM
No Links Allowed...

Mercanario
12-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Thanks very much mate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

PanzerAce
12-06-2009, 02:43 PM
cmirko, you're going to want to remove those links.

Though a very detailed explanation of how to find that second one might be useful for some people. Is it legit? (since I keep seeing people say monday is when 4.1 is out)

julian265
12-06-2009, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Willi_Wombatt:

LOL

Hey, I've been there. You forget! You need to wade through twenty minutes of recording, and then you miss the picture. Arg!


Unless you think just that little bit laterally, and press the record button when you want your shot, instead of the screenshot button, then press it again soon after.

Rjel
12-06-2009, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
cmirko, you're going to want to remove those links.

Though a very detailed explanation of how to find that second one might be useful for some people. Is it legit? (since I keep seeing people say monday is when 4.1 is out)

It must be Monday someplace. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Time to crash some download servers I think.

waffen-79
12-06-2009, 08:53 PM
Rjel mate, you said the same at aaa, how soon?

should I be on alert?

regards

PanzerAce
12-07-2009, 02:08 AM
I'd say you should be at five minute scramble alert http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9950/hsfx41.jpg

Image taken without manually installing *any* aircraft.

Metatron_123
12-07-2009, 05:30 AM
Oh yes, would you look at that.

It's amazing what a boost the war gave to technology isn't it?

Diablo310th
12-07-2009, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:

That's what you get for jumping ship... If Oleg has taught me nothing else it is that when it comes to flight sims he & 1C know their stuff.. and all these great mods we now have wouldn't be here if the original canvas & paint of IL2 had never been made...

and don't you forget it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

I still cant believe that I am still here.. If someone had told me in 2001 that I was getting into something that I'd be doing prety regularly over the next decade I would have told them they were crazy.. but it has been a great ride.

I could not agree more BC.

thefruitbat
12-07-2009, 02:17 PM
Well, i'm enjoying 4.1, is what it said it is, ui1.2 merged with hsfx. Very similar to ultrapack1.8 altough from first impressions less buggy. missing a few things from ultra that i like, but so what.

Ultrapack's got a patch out soonish, i suspect they've been waiting for this, which i'm looking forward to...

The thing i'm really looking forward to, is tiger 33's sound mod V2. theres a few youtube vids out with teasers, and it sounds awesome.

fruitbat

PanzerAce
12-07-2009, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Oh yes, would you look at that.

It's amazing what a boost the war gave to technology isn't it?

Indeed it is.

Mostly though I was looking for two planes; one that was 4.09 (which was easy), but the other had to be a HSFX4.1 plane that wasn't in 4.0, and wasn't very likely to have been added manually. I thought of using the Sentinel (or whatever that american scount plane is in game), but setteled on the -15bis instead.

K_Freddie
12-07-2009, 03:18 PM
Is there a download manager friendly site anywhere ?.
Our international link is..'unreliable'.

PM would be OK, or if not..
PM me on the Green forum - Same Name (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=36)
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BillSwagger
12-07-2009, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
You should really be using FRAPS for screen shots. It has no in game interference and doesn't require that you record a track ahead of time.

I think it should cause an autokick for those that choose to abuse the feature.


Bill

I don't understand everyones love affair with Fraps to take screen shots. It's just another program robbing system resources from a sim that demands all it can get. Plus you're limited to what Fraps records on screen.

It's really so easy to use the screenshots feature in game. As was suggested use the .ntrk feature and get your screens from that. You can't pose the screen shot while flying like you could from the recording. Unless you're flying 2 or 3 hour missions it doesn't take that long to review your flight. Even if your missions are longer, you can make shorter multiple .ntrks in the same flight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I'm not gonna quibble over which method is better, the point of fact is that the in game printscreen causes a game freeze that results in warping in online play. So in that regard it sucks because its so easy to abuse and i often wondered how a plane always seemed to warp as i closed in to shoot it.
For that reason i recommend Fraps, which actually makes no noticeable difference on my system. Maybe i lose a half a frame.
I would still recommend using the Ntrk to record game play, as Fraps videos can rack up memory pretty fast depending on the size and frame rate. Anyway, people have different reasons for recording, i just oppose the printscreen feature of the game for the obvious problems it can cause with warping and how easy it is to abuse.

Which is why i mention an auto kick if its possible to track people who use printscreen excessively.


Bill

Rjel
12-07-2009, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
...i just oppose the printscreen feature of the game for the obvious problems it can cause with warping and how easy it is to abuse.


I certainly understand your point. With the recording system built into IL2 I can see the reasons to disable the print screen key online. My point was more to the fact that I felt I can make better screen shots from .ntrks as opposed to trying catch the right angle while in flight. It's just the way I've always done it.

Rjel
12-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
The thing i'm really looking forward to, is tiger 33's sound mod V2. theres a few youtube vids out with teasers, and it sounds awesome.


I hope it's released soon. The P-51 YouTubes were great. Looking forward to hearing the new P-38s and hopefully that Tiger did something with the Mosquitoes. I'll be in hog heaven then.

Rjel
12-07-2009, 05:44 PM
Now that it's officially released check out these new P-38 entries. This new patch appears to be everything it was promised to be.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll155/Rjelmiles/grab0000.jpg

PanzerAce
12-07-2009, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Is there a download manager friendly site anywhere ?.
Our international link is..'unreliable'.

PM would be OK, or if not..
PM me on the Green forum - Same Name (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=36)
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Google "242 HSFX"

Daiichidoku
12-07-2009, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
Now that it's officially released check out these new P-38 entries.

fapfapfapfapfapfapfap

Rjel
12-07-2009, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku
fapfapfapfapfapfapfap

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif k

RSS-Martin
12-08-2009, 12:08 AM
Yeah what are you going to do? Have P38 fly against P38? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Rjel
12-08-2009, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Yeah what are you going to do? Have P38 fly against P38? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Yeah... orrrr maybe choose one from the drop down box to fly. You have played the game before, right??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

BillSwagger
12-08-2009, 12:49 AM
awesome.

i'm glad to see all those P-38s as well as the B-25s and P-51s. Its nice to have various options for different planes adding to the variety of the game. I think its about time other plane sets got expanded upon considering that we have 20 or so spits, and 109s, as well as the lengthy variety of 190s offered in the game. Nice work to all who contributed, and i look forward to more.


Bill

cmirko
12-08-2009, 07:57 AM
readme and installation instructions for HSFX v4.1 - all links to downloads have been removed - just google it...


<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE USE OR INSTALLATION OF MODS ARE PROHIBITED ON THIS SITE... </span>

ElAurens
12-08-2009, 10:57 AM
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7776/f84f.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8303/droopsnoot.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

thefruitbat
12-08-2009, 11:11 AM
It customises well to, got all my favourite little tweaks done .

Check out the p38 sounds, they rock.

Gibbage1
12-08-2009, 07:33 PM
Your welcome. I helped with both the P-38 and B-25 models.

jamesblonde1979
12-08-2009, 08:14 PM
A whole bunch of pleasant surprises in this pack, I'm very happy with it.

There's even a little L-5 recce kite which looks pretty cool.

ElAurens
12-08-2009, 10:39 PM
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7079/sentinelw.jpg

RSS-Martin
12-09-2009, 03:39 AM
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/Me410a.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

waffen-79
12-10-2009, 04:21 PM
Hi guys

I was tempted to make a new thread with rants about HSFX weapons effect

how now some .50 cals have now tracers and gun smoke in some planes and some that use the same exact .50cal dont' have them

and detail them in a list and so on, I mean some incongruencies

I mean HSFX 4.1 is AWESOME but no ta-152 variants and no whirlwind?

but instead

Can you guys help me putting the old UI 1.2 effect curved white tracer? for:

Hispano 20mm
MK108,103 30mm


I want my tempest and lw mk108 armed planes to look the way they were in UI 1.2

via PM

regards

thefruitbat
12-11-2009, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
Hi guys

I was tempted to make a new thread with rants about HSFX weapons effect

how now some .50 cals have now tracers and gun smoke in some planes and some that use the same exact .50cal dont' have them

and detail them in a list and so on, I mean some incongruencies

I mean HSFX 4.1 is AWESOME but no ta-152 variants and no whirlwind?

but instead

Can you guys help me putting the old UI 1.2 effect curved white tracer? for:

Hispano 20mm
MK108,103 30mm


I want my tempest and lw mk108 armed planes to look the way they were in UI 1.2

via PM

regards

Should be able to sort that out for you, but it won't be until this eveening, work calls now....

fruitbat

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-11-2009, 10:35 AM
Do it in PM, can't give mod instructions here.

thefruitbat
12-12-2009, 06:20 AM
waffen-79, check pm's

fruitbat

waffen-79
12-15-2009, 02:27 AM
everything is working perfects guys, thaks for all the PM's

Remember: Stay in School, eat Veggies and DONWLOAD your copy of HSFX 4.1 TODAY

regards

PanzerAce
12-17-2009, 02:01 AM
Speaking of 4.1, does any one know if an IL2 compare file exists for the 4.1 planes? If you know where to find one, please PM me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Jure_502
12-17-2009, 03:15 AM
I'm a bit confused here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

What is a difference between Ultrapack 1.8 and HSFX 4.1?

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-17-2009, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Jure_502:
I'm a bit confused here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

What is a difference between Ultrapack 1.8 and HSFX 4.1?

Well, I'm not sure what all has been added to HSFX 4.1 since UP 1.8 came out before it, but the next UP (which should be out soon AFAIK) will contain HSFX4.1 and a little bit extra. Through the mod enabler you will actually be able to enable pure HSFX 4.1 in the new UP, or add the extra stuff, so the new UP is going to basically be HSFX 4.1+.

Ba5tard5word
12-17-2009, 12:17 PM
Supposedly the new Ultrapack is coming out on Friday? Though I'm not sure where to find it, I guess I'll figure it out tomorrow (friday).

thefruitbat
12-17-2009, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Supposedly the new Ultrapack is coming out on Friday? Though I'm not sure where to find it, I guess I'll figure it out tomorrow (friday).

Yep, thats what i've heard too, can't wait.

Up1.8 with the new patch will have a hsfx4.1 switcher that comes with it. It has all of hsfx plus a little bit more including western front plane performance (in new slots) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I shall be downloading the instant its available http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Edit , to panzer ace, there will be a complete il2compare data list released with the patch of ui1.8, that will have all hsfax data, so you only have to wait until tomorrow!

Another edit, it will be called UP 2.0 now, not UP1.8x.

Roll on tomorrow...

waffen-79
12-17-2009, 01:43 PM
see I don't get it

The way I see it, the AAA guys declined in favour of HSFX, due to its structure Benefits

No more things are going to be released to UI 1.2 only thru HSFX 4.x.x patches

On the other hand the UP guys, they're still releasing their packs and not only that, they are using the HSFX content and structure now

-nothing against UP, they had the edge of Zuti's support, but since he's working with Team Daidalos now...-

I was thinking an unification and unbranding was going to take place so there could be only the official version and one mod pack

anyway, what's done is done

I've downloaded already

AAA UI 1.1
AAA UI 1.2

UP 1.8

HSFX 4.0
HSFX 4.1

Right now I think HSFX 4.1 is the best thing around but I'm using IL2+UI 1.2 for online mostly so questions still remains

Which is the Best Pack?

Should I wait for UP 2.0?

Which pack is going to be the standard online? (HL)

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-17-2009, 02:00 PM
My best guess, and it is just a guess, is that HSFX will be the new HL standard, and some servers will run with the extra UP2.0 stuff, but I think the majority will be straight HSFX. At least the UP2.0 will be completely compatible so the users need only have one install.

Jure_502
12-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Ok, thanks for explenation, so basically all we have to do is wait for next UP to come out if I understand correctly.

thefruitbat
12-17-2009, 02:30 PM
By the way, there will be a much smaller download to turn hsfx4.1 into UP2.0 available as well.

As i see it, UP2.0 will let you play on 4.09, hsfx4.1 and UP2.0 servers, all in one install, win win. Plus UP2.0 has the latest version of zutis mds, 1.1.

me personally, i'll keep both as i like to tinker...

Rjel
12-17-2009, 02:44 PM
My only complaint with HSFX so far is with the sound mods. It's not nearly as good as what I had in the UI 1.2 install. I really enjoyed the whine of my Mustang's engine as my dive speed built up. It was the most effective sound add on I ever found and I haven't yet been able to reproduce it in HSFX.

thefruitbat
12-17-2009, 02:48 PM
Tigers sound mod v2 is nearly ready, so don't worry. From what i heard, it nearly made the cut in UP2.0, but thers still a few problems with it yet. I've also heard it will be in sfs format.

check out the youtube vids, it sounds amazing, especially the mustang whistle...

Rjel
12-17-2009, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
check out the youtube vids, it sounds amazing, especially the mustang whistle...

I saw those too. Yup I'm waiting for them too (rather impatiently I'm afraid). They might the biggest improvements in this sim since its beginning.

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by thefruitbat:
Tigers sound mod v2 is nearly ready, so don't worry. From what i heard, it nearly made the cut in UP2.0, but thers still a few problems with it yet. I've also heard it will be in sfs format.

check out the youtube vids, it sounds amazing, especially the mustang whistle...

If it's in sfs format does that mean we can just drop it in the game folder and it works, or is there more to it than that? I know we can't get into too much detail about mod tweaking, just curious.

thefruitbat
12-17-2009, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
Tigers sound mod v2 is nearly ready, so don't worry. From what i heard, it nearly made the cut in UP2.0, but thers still a few problems with it yet. I've also heard it will be in sfs format.

check out the youtube vids, it sounds amazing, especially the mustang whistle...

If it's in sfs format does that mean we can just drop it in the game folder and it works, or is there more to it than that? I know we can't get into too much detail about mod tweaking, just curious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this means that you will be able to enable it via JSGME. If you look in your JSGME-MODS folder, you will find that some of the files are in in sfs format, some not.

For those that haven't heard already,

http://www.vimeo.com/6667705

cheers fruitbat

M2morris
05-09-2010, 07:31 PM
Possibly a double no-no reviving an old thread about mods ,but I have to ask for help:
I made a clean install and patched it up, installed HSFX 4 and HSFX 4.1, but my game won't load with 6DOF added to the right side of the GME.

It loads to 95% stops and becomes unresponsive.

With 6DOF put on the 'left' side of the GME the game loads and plays. But if I put it on the right it won't load past 95%.
Any ideas?
I'm waiting for an answer at AAA but hoping maybe somebody can help me here. Thnks.

AndyJWest
05-09-2010, 08:08 PM
Sorry, we're not allowed to help out with mods on the Ubi forum. AAA sounds like the best place for answers to this anyway.

RS_Deacon
05-09-2010, 08:08 PM
Morris, try adding the 6DOF as the LAST mod on the right side.

Should work.

M2morris
05-10-2010, 01:02 PM
I got it working. Thnks.
Bada$$.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif