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View Full Version : P39 is no longer a turn fighter.



Col_Tibbetts
01-12-2004, 08:58 AM
Well, I hadn't flown the P39 since my noob days but I was on a server where my favorites were not available so I thought I'd give her a try. What a difference from the P39 of the past! I remember flying circles around Me109s pre-patch. When I tried it last night it would fall into a spin after a sustained turn with a 109. I even found myself in an unrecoverable flat spin from which I had to bail! The 109 was also able to out turn me in low speed situations.

I think this is great. Hats off to the developers who must have read the same things I have about this plane. It is a great fighter. However its infamous spin characteristics are now accurately modelled so one must fly it as it was intended.

I should have known since all the noobs seem to be in Zeros these days!

Col. Tibbetts

Col_Tibbetts
01-12-2004, 08:58 AM
Well, I hadn't flown the P39 since my noob days but I was on a server where my favorites were not available so I thought I'd give her a try. What a difference from the P39 of the past! I remember flying circles around Me109s pre-patch. When I tried it last night it would fall into a spin after a sustained turn with a 109. I even found myself in an unrecoverable flat spin from which I had to bail! The 109 was also able to out turn me in low speed situations.

I think this is great. Hats off to the developers who must have read the same things I have about this plane. It is a great fighter. However its infamous spin characteristics are now accurately modelled so one must fly it as it was intended.

I should have known since all the noobs seem to be in Zeros these days!

Col. Tibbetts

Lunix
01-12-2004, 09:27 AM
Depends on you adversary but the P39 is really an E fighter. If you are going to get hot and heavy with someone dont forget to use the uber flaps. Nothing lifts like a P39 flap. Also she does not like rapid changes in attitude so be gentle on that stick and listen for buffeting. haha the Zero is easily overcome even in a P39.

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p1ngu666
01-12-2004, 09:38 AM
i was out turned by 109's yesterday in a p39 :O
managed to give a few some 37mm pressies tho http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A.K.Davis
01-12-2004, 09:49 AM
Using combat flaps P39 will outturn any 109. P39 is certainly a turn-fighter, just one that takes a bit of finesse and intelligence.

--AKD

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Copperhead310th
01-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Just 3 words here...

Nuterd
Last
Patch
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BBB_Hyperion
01-12-2004, 10:48 AM
Turn
High Speed about Equal
Medium Speed P39 advantage
Low Speed BF109 advantage

Regards,
Hyperion

faustnik
01-12-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Just 3 words here...

_Nuterd_
_Last_
_Patch_
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aww, comon' Copperhead. Brought back to reality would be more accurate than "neutered".
The Cobra is still a great low altitude fighter.

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ZG77_Nagual
01-12-2004, 10:57 AM
P39 is my fav - at least until we get the p63. It zooms and turns better than most.

Just out of curiosity - just exactly what do you guys think has changed since pre-patch - seems pretty much the same to me - possibly the stalls are a little more assertive, but they happen at about the same place. Climb etc. seem the same

JG27_Dacripler
01-12-2004, 11:01 AM
Fly a round with Lixema and he will change your opinion.. oink oink!!

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-12-2004, 11:12 AM
You should've tried the P-39 in Il-2 V1.0!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

one of the most difficult planes to fly, together with the MiG-3.

Altough, it forced you to detect probable stalls early and react accordingly. You can also learn the best spin-recovery methods. If it worked on the P-39, it works on any plane.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

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faustnik
01-12-2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
P39 is my fav - at least until we get the p63. It zooms and turns better than most.

Just out of curiosity - just exactly what do you guys think has changed since pre-patch - seems pretty much the same to me - possibly the stalls are a little more assertive, but they happen at about the same place. Climb etc. seem the same<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-reduced climb rate
-increased stall speed
-increased energy bleed
-still no tendency to spin like old IL-2 version.

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Osirisx9
01-12-2004, 11:35 AM
It all depends on wich p-39 you fly. I mastered the Q-10 and 109s are nothing but 37mm magenets for me. I can even give the Zero problems and shoot them down 80% percent of the time. This goes for human pilots. The key to flying the P-39 Q-10 is to be smooth and precise with the controls and that only comes with practice. If you fly the plane with ham hands your going to just cause youself allot of grief. Anyway I've been practing with the 109sk and learning how to fly the zero hard and fast...Pretty intresting task since the zero doesn't like to go fast and her controls get really stiff. My skills i the P-39q10 might be a little rusty, but I can still kill 109s with ease.

Osiris_X9

Copperhead310th
01-12-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
You should've tried the P-39 in Il-2 V1.0!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol i did. but of course that was back in the days when you could actually dogfight in a IL-2 too. Also nuterd by a patch. JK.
Back then i knew nothing of the IL-2 or how it was supposed to be. I just thought it was a really cool plane that i could kill germans in.

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ZG77_Nagual
01-12-2004, 11:53 AM
rgr that - been flying it since the original IL2 demo - actually.
Still seems very formidable to me - Obviously they didn't do any really radical changes - possibly it's the lines I fly within but I've not had to alter my style at all. Sustained climbe was over the top before - but I've allways mainly used zoom - which seems same or better. P39 is a great turn fighter - if you are only dealing with one opponent you can pretty much go for it.

VW-IceFire
01-12-2004, 01:22 PM
The P-39 is a blast even in the latest patch. Yes it stalls and can spin quite easily but its a fantastic little fighter to take up a battle in. If you do go turn fighting with a Bf 109 then you darn well better be smooth and tight on the stick and not try to really mash the stick around because it will stall. This sounds like the P-39 that I've read about and I think its more fun this way. It still turns like it used to really...but it stalls sometimes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Like the Hurricane its definately lost that oh so annoying "noob plane" tag. I encourage people who used to use that very strange term and take it out for a spin (litterally) now.

- IceFire
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VMF513_Wolf
01-12-2004, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
P39 is my fav - at least until we get the p63. It zooms and turns better than most.

Just out of curiosity - just exactly what do you guys think has changed since pre-patch - seems pretty much the same to me - possibly the stalls are a little more assertive, but they happen at about the same place. Climb etc. seem the same<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-reduced climb rate
-increased stall speed
-increased energy bleed
-still no tendency to spin like old IL-2 version.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
http://www.7jg77.com

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

who sad that it must be lke in old IL2=!!=!=1

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DeerHunterUK
01-12-2004, 01:47 PM
Only problem I have with the P-39 is setting up the gun convergence, can never seem to get it right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

No601 Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
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Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

faustnik
01-12-2004, 01:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Wolf:

who sad that it must be lke in old IL2=!!=!=1
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A lot of American pilots training on the Cobra said so, but, the reality is definately open for debate. I wasn't saying anything was wrong Wolf, the new Cobra model is a good one!

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VMF513_Wolf
01-12-2004, 02:00 PM
I didnt say taht u sad something wrong..lol just asked where u knew it fromhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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&lt;The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his&gt;
VMF513-Flying Nightmares (http://www.vmf513.com/)

Lazy312
01-13-2004, 06:20 AM
Osiris, Zero has no chance against P39 as Cobra is simply much faster and can kill Zero with one burst from MGs..

312_Lazy
312th Fighter Squadron
http://312.jinak.cz

DONB3397
01-13-2004, 11:38 AM
I've read quite a lot about the P-39 in the Pacific. The Japanese aces considered it easy prey. At low speeds, it could fall out of the sky because of the unusual balance with the engine behind the cockpit.

At Tonawah, where USAAF pilots took combat training in it. It killed a lot of young fliers, but many pilots, including Yeager and Anderson, seemed to like it. BTW, the first "Old Crow" was a P-39, not a 51. It was Anderson's plane at Tonawah.

In FB 1.21 it seems fairly modeled.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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SpremeCommander
01-13-2004, 11:48 AM
From what I've read about the real-life plane, the P-39 FM seems more realistic now.

ElAurens
01-13-2004, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lazy312:
Osiris, Zero has no chance against P39<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HA!

I repeatedly shot down BP_Gemini last night with my Zero...And as some of you know, Gem is one of the better P39 jocks out there.

Hint: The P39 has paper wings.....

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

BpGemini
01-13-2004, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:

HA!

I repeatedly shot down BP_Gemini last night with my Zero...And as some of you know, Gem is one of the better P39 jocks out there.

Hint: The P39 has paper wings.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I was out-numbered I tell ya. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I think the scissors tactic would work well against the roll-rate deficient Zero 1v1.
2v1 was certainly a little harder to negotiate.
I had to switch to out running you later on.

Not to mention you and Rocket are good sticks too.

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SkyChimp
01-13-2004, 06:45 PM
I feel the P-39 does not turn as well as it should. It should certainly be able to out turn any Bf-109 in the game, but it can't. And historically, that was the one real advantage the plane had over the Bf-109. US pilots in North Africa simply turned tighter and tighter until the the pursuing Bf-109 snap rolled out. And P-39 pilot pursuing Bf-109s found they could easily follow Bf-109s through turns, getting high deflection shots with little effort.

Regards,
SkyChimp
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Eagle_361st
01-13-2004, 11:38 PM
The P-39 is still one of my favorites, and always will be. I have always loved lulling the unsuspecting LW flier into a low level turning fight, drop the flaps and give him a little 37mm love. Of course in the old IL2 days, I took my Cobra out for the infamous flat-spin of burning death dance, that is why I feel like is she is so easy to fly now. ALthough they have given her some of my old and beloved(yes a glutton for punishment) behavior back. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
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backseatgunner
01-14-2004, 01:00 AM
ahhh, the old IL-2 v1.0 Boy was that P39 an effort to fly...especially when we were all relative noobs...

I miss chasing 109s in an IL-2 tho. Great for head-ons!

cheers,

Lazy312
01-14-2004, 03:19 AM
"HA!

I repeatedly shot down BP_Gemini last night with my Zero...And as some of you know, Gem is one of the better P39 jocks out there.

Hint: The P39 has paper wings....."

The best you can hope for in a Zero is a headon. I flied P39 against some Zeroes in 1.21 online. I was hit sometimes (but not shot down) but only when I wasnt careful enough. Several times I was chased by 2-4 Zeroes but you can just ignore them (they are easy kills offered for your friends BTW) and look for another targets.

312_Lazy
312th Fighter Squadron
http://312.jinak.cz

BpGemini
01-14-2004, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lazy312:The best you can hope for in a Zero is a headon. I flied P39 against some Zeroes in 1.21 online. I was hit sometimes (but not shot down) but only when I wasnt careful enough. Several times I was chased by 2-4 Zeroes but you can just ignore them (they are easy kills offered for your friends BTW) and look for another targets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Beat multiple Zero's in P-39: Outrun * Head-on * Repeat as needed.

Beat single Zero in P-39: Scissors or Outrun * Head-on * repeat.

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Lunix
01-14-2004, 09:02 AM
Its not really a scissors though as you are not trying to force an overshoot. Its more like gentle highspeed turns from side to side while outrunning the Zero. Takes 2 or 3 before you lose him if you are following rule 2: Do not let your speed drop below 400Kmph unless in a zoom climb.

With a wingman who knows what is up its easy to bring home at least 2 Zeros each.

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robban75
01-14-2004, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
I repeatedly shot down BP_Gemini last night with my Zero...And as some of you know, Gem is one of the better P39 jocks out there.

Hint: The P39 has paper wings.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps the Zero's 20m/sec climbrate could be to blame also? It's high alt performance is also very very good.

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BpGemini
01-14-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lunix:
Its not really a scissors though as you are not trying to force an overshoot. Its more like gentle highspeed turns from side to side while outrunning the Zero. Takes 2 or 3 before you lose him if you are following rule 2: Do not let your speed drop below 400Kmph unless in a zoom climb.

With a wingman who knows what is up its easy to bring home at least 2 Zeros each.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


It IS scissors and I AM intending an overshoot. That's why I said scissors "or" outrun. Quick maneuvers cutting back to the Zero will force him to either break off and overshoot or try to keep with your angles which wont happen if your turns are quick and precise because of the Zero's lacking roll rate.

I did not have the luxury of a wingman. I had my server up (closed session) and it was me versus BlitzPig_Rocket and BlitzPig_EL (2v1). The scissors did not work because the second man had more tracking space and they could alternate. I wasn't flying against noobs and I'm not a noob either.

In the first series that they were flying Zero's they caught me a little off guard because they had been flying Frank's and I entered the fight assuming they stuck with the Frank's.

Be sure you know what I'm talking about before you critique please.

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BpGemini
01-14-2004, 10:01 AM
Btw, sustained turns play into the Zero's strength. Unless you are certain to outrun them in that sustained turn, it's not the best tactic.

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1.JaVA_Hornet
01-14-2004, 10:09 AM
Hey guys read books!!!

At first the american had used it as a fighter.
later on they used it as a fighterbomber.

So the russian could use these plains excellent.

1.JaVA_hornet
The Netherlands

ElAurens
01-14-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
BlitzPig_Rocket and BlitzPig_EL (2v1). I wasn't flying against noobs <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Gemini!!

It was quite hard to get you, Be sure! What with the P39's over done roll rate it took a lot of work to keep up with your scissors. What saved me was the Zero's tighter turn radius. After a couple of scissors you would simply fly right in front of my guns, POP! off with that wing.... Once you changed to using the P39's superior speed things got more difficult.

Was great fun.

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

ElAurens
01-14-2004, 11:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
Perhaps the Zero's 20m/sec climbrate could be to blame also? It's high alt performance is also very very good.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were at low level, so high alt performance had nothing to do with it. The Zero's superior accelaration and turn radius won the day...

_____________________________

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BlitzPig_EL

ZG77_Nagual
01-14-2004, 11:13 AM
In IL2 the biggest problems, in my opinion, with the p39 were it's really impossibly slow climb rate, engine overheat and very poor energy retention.

In the pacific those were early model cobras - also they were being imployed using an antiquated dogfighting doctrine based on wwI - they blamed the plane but it really was much more the tactics.

Lunix
01-14-2004, 09:20 PM
Not critiquing Gemini just trying to relate a tactic that I found highly successfull in dealing with the Zero. With a Zero a scissors should be, even more than normal, a maneuver of last resort. The P39 easily out turns and out rolls the Zero as long as you keep that speed up. Sorry if it came across that way I was busily posting pre coffee this morning http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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BpGemini
01-15-2004, 09:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lunix:
Not critiquing Gemini just trying to relate a tactic.........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ah coolio http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_buds.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lunix:
Not critiquing Gemini just trying to relate a tactic that I found highly successfull in dealing with the Zero. With a Zero a scissors should be, even more than normal, a maneuver of last resort. The P39 easily out turns and out rolls the Zero as long as you keep that speed up. Sorry if it came across that way I was busily posting pre coffee this morning http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I still disagree with your conclusion of last resort tactics. The Zero can out turn the P-39. Keeping your speed up just allows you to travel from point A to point B on your arc faster than the Zero can travel from point A to point B on it's shorter/tighter arc. Rolling scissors allows you to exploit the Zero's bad roll rate once he overshoots staying on his tail is a lot easier than shaking him you just need to take better angles and don't try to out turn. Don't let him control the fight. The only danger to the scissors is the passing point. In most cases it would take a bit of luck to line up and wax the scissoring plane at least if he's riding up and rolling under at the point of intersection. One reason I don't like the run and turn tactic over the quicker solution is because in a tight Dog Fight room the longer you take to down your opponent the more likely it will become that you'll add more opponents to your plate and that's when you'll realize your eyes are bigger than your stomach.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Lunix
01-15-2004, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I still disagree with your conclusion of last resort tactics. The Zero can out turn the P-39. Keeping your speed up just allows you to travel from point A to point B on your arc faster than the Zero can travel from point A to point B on it's shorter/tighter arc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well as I understand it, the reason why scissors is known as a last resort tactic is due to the fact that you have to loose energy to perform it properly. Im sure you must agree that in general this is not desirable.

By performing a high speed slow turn what you would be doing is forcing the Zero into a choice. Either try to keep his speed up, stay in gun range and try to follow your turn which if he is going over 350kmph he will not be able to do or slow down to turn with you but rapidly fall back out of gun range. By doing a simple reverse you can increase the separation considerably as the Zero's roll rate is impacted at high speeds even more than its turn rate. Of course, as happened in your particular scenario you may offer a snap shot but should you be going fast to begin with you may reduce the danger due to your amount of separation. This is why I think that this tactic has proven so successfull for me where other ones have failed.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Rolling scissors allows you to exploit the Zero's bad roll rate once he overshoots staying on his tail is a lot easier than shaking him you just need to take better angles and don't try to out turn. Don't let him control the fight. The only danger to the scissors is the passing point. In most cases it would take a bit of luck to line up and wax the scissoring plane at least if he's riding up and rolling under at the point of intersection. One reason I don't like the run and turn tactic over the quicker solution is because in a tight Dog Fight room the longer you take to down your opponent the more likely it will become that you'll add more opponents to your plate and that's when you'll realize your eyes are bigger than your stomach.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah! Rolling scissors. A great P39 move as it does not have any of the jarring rapid changes in direction that could lead you into a spin. It also does not expose you as bad towards the possibility of flying through the enemies gunsights. In general I would prefer not to "dual" with a Zero. Take a quick slashing attack and get out of there for reasons you mentioned. I find I get killed more trying to get a decisive victory rather than accepting the fact that sometimes they do get away.

BTW since the IL2 days I too have been a P39 pilot as well, fighting the fearsome GR142 squad on greatergreen. To this day I probably have more hours logged into the P39 than all other planes combined. I sure do miss that snap roll *sigh*.

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BpGemini
01-15-2004, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lunix:Well as I understand it, the reason why scissors is known as a last resort tactic is due to the fact that you have to loose energy to perform it properly. Im sure you must agree that in general this is not desirable.

By performing a high speed slow turn what you would be doing is forcing the Zero into a choice. Either try to keep his speed up, stay in gun range and try to follow your turn which if he is going over 350kmph he will not be able to do or slow down to turn with you but rapidly fall back out of gun range. By doing a simple reverse you can increase the separation considerably as the Zero's roll rate is impacted at high speeds even more than its turn rate. Of course, as happened in your particular scenario you may offer a snap shot but should you be going fast to begin with you may reduce the danger due to your amount of separation. This is why I think that this tactic has proven so successfull for me where other ones have failed.

Ah! Rolling scissors. A great P39 move as it does not have any of the jarring rapid changes in direction that could lead you into a spin. It also does not expose you as bad towards the possibility of flying through the enemies gunsights. In general I would prefer not to "dual" with a Zero. Take a quick slashing attack and get out of there for reasons you mentioned. I find I get killed more trying to get a decisive victory rather than accepting the fact that sometimes they do get away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Energy = Life
I agree engery is very important but the energy lost in this scenario isn't significant or as hendering as lost time in a tight DF areana.

Seems we just have differnt styles that work for us.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lunix:BTW since the IL2 days I too have been a P39 pilot as well, fighting the fearsome GR142 squad on greatergreen. To this day I probably have more hours logged into the P39 than all other planes combined. I sure do miss that snap roll *sigh*.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The GR142 guys frequent my server from time to time. Astro, Pipper and Bass usually. Astro and Pipper tend to fly Yak-3s and La-7s. Plane for plane (pilots aside) that's a tough challenge for the P-39. One on one I tend to get the better of them but they work well together and 3/2 vs 1 is pretty tough.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

Erbogast-v.K
01-15-2004, 11:14 AM
Let the contemporaries speak about the P-39:
"This was a VERY INFERIOR fighter aircraft at all time during the war.Its maneuverability,speed,dive and climbing qualities were POOR. It was one of the easiest of the Allied fighters to shoot down" excerpt from interrogation of Generalleutnant Adolf Galland, Generalfeldmarshall Milch, Oberstleutnant B¤r, Generalmajor Hitschold and leutnant Neumann after WWII. So, in any situation don't even think about matching Bf-109 or Fw-190... may Il-2 be not so realistic after all???

BpGemini
01-15-2004, 11:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erbogast-v.K:
Let the contemporaries speak about the P-39:
"This was a VERY INFERIOR fighter aircraft at all time during the war.Its maneuverability,speed,dive and climbing qualities were POOR. It was one of the easiest of the Allied fighters to shoot down" excerpt from interrogation of Generalleutnant Adolf Galland, Generalfeldmarshall Milch, Oberstleutnant B¤r, Generalmajor Hitschold and leutnant Neumann after WWII. So, in any situation don't even think about matching Bf-109 or Fw-190... may Il-2 be not so realistic after all???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pffffftttt

The realities of war are a little different than a flight simulation. You wouldn't see the furballs in real life the way you see them online. The meetings between opponents in WWII were more stretched out than what we see online.

Another thing, the P-39 is hardly uber in this version of FB. It is bested in many areas by many aircraft.

Also the accounts of some don't reveal the accounts of all. Many Eastern front pilots liked the P-39 and in case you forgot this is an Eastern Front sim.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

VW-IceFire
01-15-2004, 01:36 PM
Even the best aces are limited by their own human qualities of perception. They don't actually know for sure how good of a climber the P-39 really is except when they fought it and then they are basically giving a relative indication of their plane VS his plane.

Its an accurate excerpt no doubt and an even more accurate sense of the feelings of those pilots but it doesn't mean its bang on either. And the P-39 is really only a good low level plane (reality & partly FB) which is what the Russians felt was important in the airforce and which was not quite as important for the Germans since many fights on the Western Front were done at 20,000 feet.

- IceFire
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ZG77_Nagual
01-15-2004, 01:46 PM
Having some trouble getting quotes pasted in here - anyway - check this link
http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part3.htm

SpremeCommander
01-15-2004, 02:30 PM
SkyCHimp:

"It should certainly be able to out turn any Bf-109 in the game, but it can't."

No way, Jose. A 109F should be able to run circles around a P-39. The 39 had a decent combat history, but was never considered to be an outstanding fighter.