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View Full Version : FMB..wtf.!! ship damage inconsistancy



fabianfred
08-30-2007, 06:50 PM
I have known for a while that killing a stationary ship and its moving equivalent usually require different amounts of hits....If I remember correctly...the stationary ship is harder to kill....highlighted when I was building my huge pearl harbor mission.

We all know that to build a co-op mission....we make it into a single mission first...then fly each part to check it out...then simply convert to co-op by having no player box checked and writing a suitable brief...

at least...I thought it was simply that....until yesterday...........NOT

I decided to build a co-op with bombers leaving carriers to attack Guam harbour....and their main target was to be a damaged japanese carrier....this was set-up by having a stationary carrier and at mission start two flights of four A6M5 armed with 25kg. bomb would be born on the carrier....but with no fuel so they would release their bombs and explode....

worked fine.....one flight of four not enough....no damage....three flights...too much...the carrier sank...... two flights was fine....dirty burn holes in the deck/smoke/carrier listed badly down at the stern......

the four TBF's attack with their torpedos....and the fourth torpedo sinks the carrier..........Great!

Converted it to co-op.......NOT!...... the two flights of A6M5 explode at mission start.......nothing ....zilch....not a scratch on the carrier....no list to stern.....no smoke....and the four torpedoes might as well have been .50" rounds......no effect

By hours of trying this and that.....starting the co-op (not flying from FMB...that is no good)...checking...back to FMB....

one flight of four B5N3 armed with 600kg. bombs and two flights of three B5N3 armed the same....gives the smoke/listing/deck damage....two flights of four...not enough....no damage.....three flights of four....too much....sinks

So...we get it set-up OK.....but ....the four torpedos do not sink it now!!!
Frustration.... I'm going to have to drop the flight of four TBF's to three planes and duplicate the flight using that little gem....Quick Mission Tuner

Don't know if it will sink the carrier or not!!??

Why so many inconsistancies??? Building missions is enough work already....this makes it harder........I hope SOW has it better.

DKoor
08-30-2007, 07:47 PM
Now that is very weird http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
I always thought ships have a sweet spot (damage) when they reach it it's all over.
Obviously i was wrong.

Or...could online be different (damage wise)?

Hm. Not really logical.

fabianfred
08-30-2007, 08:06 PM
I just did what I said I would....changed the TBF's to two flights of three..... and guess what.....Today the carrier sinks at the third torpedo...WTF!!!!!

so the second flight just lose theirs.....(as if the harbour wasn't full of other ships too..)
AI are ..stupid...stupid...stupid!

DKoor
08-31-2007, 03:22 PM
Perhaps they are weapon dependent? Dunno http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Or......could it be that *if* they are not struck in the same place all the time that damage may not be mortal? ie. one time when you struk middle of the ship he'll go down, but if you struck nose he wont....or sumtin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

ytareh
08-31-2007, 03:33 PM
Funny you should post this cos Ive just spent a while messing about trying to sink cargo ships with all sorts of armaments.....Now its fairly well known that 250kg is needed to sink a cargo ship .I never thought it required more or less weight of bombs if they were moving . Now a single 250kg will sink one but 4x70kg wont....
A long (almost all the ammo)and well aimed burst of 37mm fire from a Sturmovik 3M will sink one too.As will the big gunned Me262s 45(75?)mm single cannon (U4?).I couldnt keep a Yak9Ks 45mm on target long enough as it bounces about like heck-and its not got much ammo either.
Patrol Boats are much easier pickings going down to 4x20mm or 2x23mm bursts of not particularly long duration along with rockets -including X4 on 1946 german planes!But they still wont sink with less than 250kg of bombs as far as I can tell....

Waldo.Pepper
08-31-2007, 03:59 PM
I think such inconsistency is desirable and proper. Damage should not be predictable. It must be maddening for a mission maker who is trying to create a predictable outcome, and I feel your pain. But if you as a player shot some rounds into a target and it did the same thing every time it would be an unplayable experience.

DKoor
08-31-2007, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I think such inconsistency is desirable and proper. Damage should not be predictable. +1

Zeus-cat
08-31-2007, 08:46 PM
The larger ships have multiple zones. For example, the freighter will sink if two IL-2T Russian torpedoes hit it amidships. However, if one torpedo hits amidships and one hits the bow (or stern) it won't sink; it needs a third torpedo hit before it goes down. During your tests, do the torps all hit the same zone?

fabianfred
08-31-2007, 11:26 PM
thanks zeus...i never thought about where the torp hit....

but actually they are AI TBF's so the torps hit the same place each time...

I ran the co-op several times yesterday and sometimes it would sink after four torps and sometimes needed six...

but the most od thing was as I said in my first post...the setting-up by having planes explode on mission start....very different needs between the single and co-op missions!!!???

lowfighter
08-31-2007, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
but the most od thing was as I said in my first post...the setting-up by having planes explode on mission start....very different needs between the single and co-op missions!!!???

Yes, that's the odd thing. So is this enough to conclude the ship damage model is different in single and co-op missions?

tagTaken2
08-31-2007, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
The larger ships have multiple zones.

This supports my experience, in which it is only possible to sink ships with cannon by putting a burst into several parts of the hull. It's like each ship section has a certain damage level to reach before it poops itself.

Still, anything is better than CFS3 damage for ships, I managed to sink the Bismarck with (unlimited) 50cal... although some here would say that was quite possible http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

fabianfred
09-01-2007, 12:18 AM
....that's quite impossible!

tagTaken2
09-01-2007, 12:50 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

.50?

Tiger tank, Tirpitz... thread. The humble half-inch bullet can destroy anything.

x6BL_Brando
09-01-2007, 02:53 AM
This supports my experience, in which it is only possible to sink ships with cannon by putting a burst into several parts of the hull. It's like each ship section has a certain damage level to reach before it poops itself.

You might be describing bulkheads http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The ship takes a hit in the bow (or wherever) and the crew closes all the water-tight doors to that area and the ship stays afloat.

We had a ship beached just up the coast from here (http://www.sidmouthherald.co.uk/branscombe.aspx) after it started to break up in a storm - now we have half a ship http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The salvage company removed all the cargo and then blew the ship in half. The front end was floated to Belfast for scrapping - the stern is expected to be removed in a month or two.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Napoli_Belfast_Aug1607.jpg

amilaninia
09-01-2007, 08:00 AM
In the battle of Midway the USN Dauntlesses destroyed three Japanese carriers with three to four direct hits on each carrier, in Il-2 you need a Mistel to sink ONE. So I wouldn't worry much about historical accuracy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MEGILE
09-01-2007, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I think such inconsistency is desirable and proper. Damage should not be predictable. +1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+2

Divine-Wind
09-01-2007, 09:26 AM
I wish I was that kitty...

Yeah, I've noticed some variation. That's good and bad, as Fabian and Waldo have both pointed out. Damage shouldn't be uniform all throughout, but this can lead to problems in mission building...