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Waldo.Pepper
06-14-2005, 10:35 PM
From the book. Flying under Fire volume 1 Pages 118-129.

Various stories from the tale of a Drogue operator.

"Did you see that off the port wing?"
"No, not with the grass going by."
I was flying as a Drogue Operator, a crewman in a Fairey Battle, with a pilot who liked to make a long, low approach.
"I'm going around again. As we come in, look for a clearing in among the pine trees."
With the Battle's Merlin bellowing, we climbed away from the approach runway and rejoined the circuit. As we again came in to land, the pilot said, "Watch."
"You drive, I'll watch!"
Then I saw what he was talking about. In a clearing surrounded by scrubby evergreens, a group of airwomen were jumping up and down, waving at aircraft on the approach. They were sunbathing in the buff. "Those're spruce trees, not pine," I told him.
"Farmer! Boy, that was something!"

Funny. Another one.

As hours accumulated in my logbook, the unexpected did happen. I had pilots fall asleep
and fly miles off the gunnery course. With one pilot I flew many miles toward Quebec City
before I could awaken him. Fortunately, trimmed Battles could fly long distances safely before
they decided to head toward the ground.

Last one.

Our young pilots visualized themselves as fighter or bomber pilots, and not as flying drogue or gunnery, so they sometimes played games with their aircraft. One game was sliding the wing of their aircraft under the wing of another ship and flipping it over. As we flew out towards the St. Lawrence River, the game went sour and the wing tips of both aircraft shattered. This was the only time I actually put on my parachute.
Both aircraft returned safely to the School where we had to report to the office of the Chief Instructor‚‚ā¨"Ěconsidered a man with little sense of humour. Our explanations were so similar he must have had doubts about their veracity. The CI, to be on the safe side of good order and discipline, gave the pilots extra Orderly Duty. The LACs, the two gunnery trainees, and myself escaped with looks from the CI that plainly told us that he didn't believe a word of what we had told him.

Despite the "not fit for aircrew" tag, I had made it into the air, logging almost eight hundred hours of service flying and helping to train twenty-five hundred men who became part of the aircrews that hastened the end of World War II. That, I thought, was something to talk about when you were old.

AerialTarget
06-15-2005, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
One game was sliding the wing of their aircraft under the wing of another ship and flipping it over. As we flew out towards the St. Lawrence River, the game went sour and the wing tips of both aircraft shattered. This was the only time I actually put on my parachute.
Both aircraft returned safely to the School

I've heard several stories about wingtips being used to bump other aircraft and V-2 rockets. I cannot imagine anyone having enough skill to do that, although I believe the stories. Probably none of us here could do it in the game, at least without a lot of takes!

One of the problems with the physics model in the game is that when the slightest bit of the wingtip is gone, the aircraft acts like it has no wing. Truth is, aircraft both modern and old can lose large portions of their wings, even half, and still fly back to base and land.

Waldo.Pepper
06-15-2005, 12:48 AM
Not V2's but V1's

Couldn't agree more. Here is a A5M Claude missing 'half a wing' from Famous Arplanes of the World Number 27 Page 49

http://www3.telus.net/public/a5a03316/vickmaster/Claudehopper.jpg

NonWonderDog
06-15-2005, 12:55 AM
Several people here should have tracks of flipping a V-1 rocket with their wingtip. I haven't managed it yet, though. There's a little mission that came with AEP for you to practice it, IIRC. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JunkoIfurita
06-15-2005, 01:01 AM
Not only that, there's a track which you should have already that came with AEP that shows someone on the Dev or Beta test team flipping a V1 with the wing of their Mustang.

As I understand it, you don't actually have to touch the wing of the V1 (the damage model would usually have the wing break off, here), but just disrupt the airflow underneath the aerofoil. Get close, disrupt the airflow, watch it flip, then fly away.

Very, very difficult, but not impossible. And it was done regularly by pilots in real life - because the explosives load on the V1s were so large that shooting them down wasn't an option - if you were close enough to shoot it, you were within the blast radius.

----

EnGaurde
06-15-2005, 04:21 AM
what an excellent post.

dayamn, i could read posts like these all day and be sore that night from laughing.

first rate.

more, please.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


That, I thought, was something to talk about when you were old

HA. You would NOT believe what ive done for exactly that reason.

thats so accurate to what i have thought many (stupid, immature, show off) times in the past it raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

like diving into shallow water from about 18 - 20 metres, and despite pulling out of the dive as quickly as i possibly could, i still ended up skinning my nose on the bottom and pancaking like a reverse Jesus On The Cross onto some very unforgiving rocks just lightly enough to be still here writing this.....

all to impress a veritable angel of a curly haired girl, of course. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

the point is not that they shared my stupidity, but i shared just the smallest amount of their "... well this is very likely to kill me but i can really look good if i pull it off" attitude?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Saunders1953
06-15-2005, 07:04 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Reminds me...what's the last thing a redneck says before he dies?

"Hey y'all, watch this!"

Atomic_Marten
06-15-2005, 07:14 AM
Nice post..

About Fieseler V-1 I must say that I regularly shot them down with MGs.
I just put a good burst from close range onto one of it's tiny wings (that is not hard BTW, since bomb do not take evasive manoeuvres http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif).
To make it less risky, close up 'till your prop start to heat from Fi-103 engine fumes and start to shoot it's one wing with 3 x .50cals from one wing.

Although the wing-over was less risky bussiness in RL, in game it is far easier to simply gun it down.

Atomic_Marten
06-15-2005, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by Saunders1953:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Reminds me...what's the last thing a redneck says before he dies?

"Hey y'all, watch this!"

http://zeke.tzo.com/rpgww/misc/yalogank/zznonrpgww/signs/sign_lmao.jpg

Atomic_Marten
06-15-2005, 09:16 AM
BTW I've got one (kill?http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/images/smiles/think.gif ) on 'historical' way over Normandy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Atomic_Marten/V-1screw20.gif

Beaufort-RAF
06-15-2005, 01:33 PM
One of the problems with the physics model in the game is that when the slightest bit of the wingtip is gone, the aircraft acts like it has no wing. Truth is, aircraft both modern and old can lose large portions of their wings, even half, and still fly back to base and land.


The Hurricane can take plenty of stick and make it home.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.meadows37/Various/Hurricane%20wing%20damage.jpg

AerialTarget
06-15-2005, 02:08 PM
Really? Maybe this got fixed in the patch. I'll do some testing when I get home from work.

Beaufort-RAF
06-15-2005, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Really? Maybe this got fixed in the patch. I'll do some testing when I get home from work.

The screenshot is months old, it's something unique to the Hurri.

EnGaurde
06-15-2005, 06:48 PM
As I understand it, you don't actually have to touch the wing of the V1 (the damage model would usually have the wing break off, here), but just disrupt the airflow underneath the aerofoil. Get close, disrupt the airflow, watch it flip, then fly away

hey i just realised something....

disrupting the airflow under the wing would mean a loss of lift on that wing, yes?

which means that wing loses lift and the other still has oodles of it.

result: that V1 ends up in your lap as the still lifting wing rolls up and over?

in the gif it shows the mustang rolling as well, maybe thats how they stoppped the rolling V1 latching onto the roller like a crotch biting dog. With much the same result i would imagine.

AerialTarget
06-15-2005, 07:25 PM
Well, in real life they actaully touched the things, as their wings did not automatically fall off when touching something at any speed as they do in the game.

Waldo.Pepper
06-16-2005, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Well, in real life they actaully touched the things, as their wings did not automatically fall off when touching something at any speed as they do in the game.

Sorry Aerialtarget this is not true. They never actually touched it. (please provide a source) Here's mine;

page 162-163 The Secret War by Brian Johnson

There was another method of attack, even more dangerous, pioneered by Wing Commander Beamont:

"I had used up my ammunition on one VI and saw another and decided to do something about it. The idea was to get my winglip close under the wingtip of the VI but not touching it, then gradually raising my wing causing the airflow over it to make the VI bank. This affected the gyro-stabilisation of the missile, causing it to go out of control, toppling over and crashing."

One of the only Allied jet fighters to see service during World War II, the Gloster Meteor, also tipped over a VI. On 4 August Flying Officer Dean of 610 Squadron had closed on a VI, but his guns had jammed, so he overtook the missile and tipped it over as described by Wing Commander Beamont. This was the first time an enemy aircraft had been destroyed by a jet and the first jet versus jet encounter: the Meteor was a Mk 1, EE216. Later that same day another Meteor of 616 Squadron shot down a VI all altogether 616, the only jet squadron in the RAF, destroyed thirteen V1's.

Korea is generaly recognized as the first Jet on Jet encounter but I would say this qualifies.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-16-2005, 07:01 AM
That was one pilot's version Waldo. (great post btw) There were a number of pilots that had their wings shaved and polished for added speed and more than a few that actually wrinkled them as a result of "tipping". From their accounts, some were damaged almost beyond repair.

I'll look for the exerpt.


TB