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majnos64
06-01-2007, 04:40 AM
I think P-51 is one of the most powerful A/C in the game. But it has IMO weak weapons. In some thread I've read that could be caused by wrong convergence. I'd like to know how to show my stats hit/miss ratio. It would be the easiest way to set my convergnece right. Or if some of you have some tips to hit right in P-51 I would appreciate any help.

FritzGryphon
06-01-2007, 04:47 AM
You should set the convergence to the range that you will shoot most often, and a range that you can easily score hits at.

It's a simple enough concept, though you can imagine how it would differ in various situations, target types, and personal playing style.

For example, flying a 109E versus I-16s, I would use a very short convergence, due to the limited number of rounds, and the small size of the target. Flying P-47 against bombers, I would use a long convergence, as bombers are larger targets, and I would like to stay further from the defensive guns.

It doesn't matter so much what you set the convergence to, but rather you need to understand why you have set it to where it is, and play accordingly.

John_Wayne_
06-01-2007, 05:57 AM
Check this thread out - some good stuff tucked away in there.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9691054365

stansdds
06-02-2007, 05:02 AM
I generally set the convergence for machine guns at 300 meters, which is pretty close the 300 yard setting used by the U.S. Setting the distance beyond 300 m doesn't work as well for me because the enemy aircraft is just too small for me to really see and it makes deflection shots even more difficult. Don't fire until you are within the convergence setting and remember, the path of the bullet is an arc, so as the enemy gets closer than the convergence setting, the lower you should aim so that the bullet stream is still arcing into the enemy.

majnos64
06-02-2007, 06:04 AM
OK thank you guys. I would like to know how to show my singleplayer stats to know how many bullets I missed.

Philipscdrw
06-02-2007, 08:22 AM
I'd like to know this too Majnos - is there anything like the ServerCommander <gunstat command?

You could turn on 'arcade' mode, where bullet hits are shown as arrows on the external models. To do this, open conf.ini and change "arcade=0" to "arcade=1" - I think it's in the [game] section but not sure.

BuzzardHead
06-05-2007, 11:39 PM
As the great Eric Hartmann said"Wait untill the enemy's plane fills your windscreen,then fire".

Mysticpuma2003
06-06-2007, 12:19 PM
I'll just repost (now the thread has been locked) my initial post in the linked thread:

To be honest I have also been in the "The .50's are porked" Brigade, but then I started watching my tracks back.

At times when I was sure I'd waited for the correct moment to open fire, when the enemy was filling the gunsight, I'd open fire and watch as my multiple hits did barely any damage and the 190 and 109 would turn onto me until I was dead!

How could this be, "the .50's are porked!" I'd shout, and , well, no they aren't.

I watched my tracks back and was amazed to see my bullets converging about 40-50 metres short of the target, and while 2-3 would hit (giving speckled debris), most of them had spread out way before hitting my intended target and gone either side.

So what to do? Well I could get closer, and some guys do, but I prefer to see my deflection shot (personal preference, others are way better than me and know where the plane is in front of the nose) and so changed my settings to 250MG and 300C (even though they are all 50's!).

My first three sorties out were a revelation.
Destroyed were 3x190's and 1x109 on my first sortie.Second Sortie 2x190 1x190 and 1xJU-88 (head-on PK attack) and the Third Sortie 2x109's and another JU-88 along with 2x109's damaged while attacking a friendly.

All I'd say is set your convergence, watch your tracks and then post that the .50's are porked.....they're not...and I used to believe they were.

Now Armour Piercing incendiary in the load-outs on the Extra Ammunition as a sub-setting would be the best addition to the P-47 series since it was introduced...but the only reason I mention it is because this is a wish list for 4.09....so .50's porked....Nah! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VW-IceFire
06-06-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by majnos64:
I think P-51 is one of the most powerful A/C in the game. But it has IMO weak weapons. In some thread I've read that could be caused by wrong convergence. I'd like to know how to show my stats hit/miss ratio. It would be the easiest way to set my convergnece right. Or if some of you have some tips to hit right in P-51 I would appreciate any help.
Load up the quick mission builder and start facing off against some AI (I tend to prefer 8 versus 8 engagements to get lots of targets). Do everything as you would normally do.

At the end of the mission click 'Save Track' and then go into the tracks area and play it back. Make sure that icons with the range indicators are on. Find out at what range you typically open fire at by slowing the time down to 1/2th or 1/4th during any time where your firing and see what it is. If its typically 0.35 then set your convergence to 350 meters in the gun convergence area.

Personally I think most people fire from far too far away and not nearly enough bullets are hitting or hitting with the full force they would at closer range (because like anything the bullets loose momentum as they travel). I know people fire too far away because I see them online all the time. I wait till half the distance that some people do. Usually I'm in at 200 meters when I start firing and less. I have my gun convergence at 215 and 250 (for cannons) because that gives me the greatest flexibility for deflection shots and close in concentrated firepower).

When done right the .50cals rip into the target all at the same point and the results are devastating. Or....you leave it at 500m default convergence...the bullets are scattered all over the sky and only a few hit the guy in front and they become "weak". Simple http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

M_Gunz
06-06-2007, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by majnos64:
OK thank you guys. I would like to know how to show my singleplayer stats to know how many bullets I missed.

You can't in regular SP mode. You also can't set up ranged or parial icons in SP.

But you can play MP coops without being connected to the net and with Lowengrin's DCG you can
run missions to campaigns from there and use limited icons and get stats.

Divine-Wind
06-06-2007, 04:15 PM
Why does everyone think the .50 cals in this game are weak? They only sound weak and puny. Get up close, and I guarantee you'll shred aircraft left and right. The .50 calibers are the same on every plane, you just need to get close enough and set your convergence.

Aviar
06-06-2007, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by majnos64:
OK thank you guys. I would like to know how to show my singleplayer stats to know how many bullets I missed.

You can't in regular SP mode. You also can't set up ranged or parial icons in SP. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are wrong about the icons. You can set up custom icons in SP with your DOTRANGE commands, just like it's done in MP. I do it every day.

You can also choose partial icons by simply using the 'Toggle Icon Types' command.

However, the default icons will have the range included anyway, which is what IceFire was suggesting.

Aviar

VW-IceFire
06-06-2007, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Why does everyone think the .50 cals in this game are weak? They only sound weak and puny. Get up close, and I guarantee you'll shred aircraft left and right. The .50 calibers are the same on every plane, you just need to get close enough and set your convergence.
Because most people miss with most of their shots so they assume its a weak weapon. Also allot of people start firing at much too far away to be effective. Same for the cannons...but they are more destructive with the HE blasts so that props those weapons up a bit.

Divine-Wind
06-06-2007, 05:09 PM
Well, it is human nature to blame everything but themselves for their failures and mistakes.

Which I guess is why someone can get away with suing McDonalds because they got burned after spilling hot coffee on themselves since there was no warning.

GADGET_101ECV
06-07-2007, 07:46 AM
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/20-20-hindsig...t-armament-4206.html (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/20-20-hindsight-different-armament-4206.html)

Bearcat99
06-07-2007, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Why does everyone think the .50 cals in this game are weak? They only sound weak and puny. Get up close, and I guarantee you'll shred aircraft left and right. The .50 calibers are the same on every plane, you just need to get close enough and set your convergence.
Because most people miss with most of their shots so they assume its a weak weapon. Also allot of people start firing at much too far away to be effective. Same for the cannons...but they are more destructive with the HE blasts so that props those weapons up a bit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats usually my problem.

VW-IceFire
06-07-2007, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Well, it is human nature to blame everything but themselves for their failures and mistakes.

Which I guess is why someone can get away with suing McDonalds because they got burned after spilling hot coffee on themselves since there was no warning.
I'm not sure if its human nature or not. I think its part of western society. Particularly in North America. Something goes wrong so the correct action is apparently to sue whoever seems to be closest to you that just might happen to be responsible even when quite often its your own fault.

So with this particular issue...its always the weapons fault...its always the damage models fault...its never ever even considered that it might be "your" (figuratively) fault for missing or incorrectly employing the weapon or not being able to shoot.

I'm not even saying that you NEED to be a good shot or anything like that...I'd just like to see some perspective taken by people. I.e. "OK so I'm not the greatest shot and I'm having trouble making the .50cal work for me so what can I do to improve my abilities and make this weapon effective?" Come to think of it...thats basically what majnos64 has done (the creator of this thread) and thats commendable. He still thinks their weak...thats the lead in...so we're not quite where I want to see people but a legitimate effort is being made to understand the issues which is what its all about.

Divine-Wind
06-07-2007, 03:56 PM
Probably also the fact that lawsuits are kinda easy to file nowadays, at least over here.

Oh well, not like it's anything I can change, so not much use whining about it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

We should probably make a sticky addressing .50 calibers and convergence and ranges and how they work together. But then about 75% of people would probably still make threads left and right about how their .50's perform like peashooters. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-08-2007, 02:20 PM
In cockpit locked servers try 200m. Make sure the enemy plane is close to filling your reticule.

M_Gunz
06-08-2007, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Well, it is human nature to blame everything but themselves for their failures and mistakes.

Which I guess is why someone can get away with suing McDonalds because they got burned after spilling hot coffee on themselves since there was no warning.

If you read into the actual case, that place was serving coffee way past safe temperatures
which made the burns more severe than they would have. There's a limit set and that coffee
was 20 or more degrees over it. The fact that the woman set the cup between her legs and
then pulled out is secondary to what was handed out the window to her.

Bearcat99
06-08-2007, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Well, it is human nature to blame everything but themselves for their failures and mistakes.

Which I guess is why someone can get away with suing McDonalds because they got burned after spilling hot coffee on themselves since there was no warning.

If you read into the actual case, that place was serving coffee way past safe temperatures
which made the burns more severe than they would have. There's a limit set and that coffee
was 20 or more degrees over it. The fact that the woman set the cup between her legs and
then pulled out is secondary to what was handed out the window to her. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

D@mn Gunz.. you sound like a lawyer... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
06-08-2007, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Probably also the fact that lawsuits are kinda easy to file nowadays, at least over here.

Oh well, not like it's anything I can change, so not much use whining about it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

We should probably make a sticky addressing .50 calibers and convergence and ranges and how they work together. But then about 75% of people would probably still make threads left and right about how their .50's perform like peashooters. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Yeah...there is no winning on these things. People will always be ...people. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Divine-Wind
06-08-2007, 05:31 PM
Good thing too, else you old farts sitting around using the internet would have nothing to do.

luftluuver
06-08-2007, 05:53 PM
79 year old Stella Liebeck suffered third degree burns on her groin and inner thighs while trying to add sugar to her coffee at a McDonalds drive through. Third degree burns are the most serious kind of burn. McDonalds knew it had a problem. There were at least 700 previous cases of scalding coffee incidents at McDonalds before Liebeck's case. McDonalds had settled many claim before but refused Liebeck's request for $20,000 compensation, forcing the case into court. Lawyers found that McDonalds makes its coffee 30-50 degrees hotter than other restaurants, about 190 degrees. Doctors testified that it only takes 2-7 seconds to cause a third degree burn at 190 degrees. McDonalds knew its coffee was exceptionally hot but testified that they had never consulted with burn specialist. The Shriner Burn Institute had previously warned McDonalds not to serve coffee above 130 degrees. And so the jury came back with a decision- $160,000 for compensatory damages. But because McDonalds was guilty of "willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct" punitive damages were also applied. The jury set the award at $2.7 million. The judge then reduced the fine to less than half a million. Ms. Liebeck then settled with McDonalds for a sum reported to be much less than a half million dollars. McDonald's coffee is now sold at the same temperature as most other restaurants.

Couldn't the old hag feel the heat coming through the paper cup?

Divine-Wind
06-08-2007, 07:55 PM
Wow, we went from P-51 convergence to McDonalds' coffee. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

http://lolcats.com/images/u/07/22/lolcatsdotcomsqbjv1zj0ia6b040.jpg

Taylortony
06-08-2007, 08:11 PM
I found the easiest way to set your guns is pick a tree, dive at it and when you would normally fire at an aircraft distance wise shoot the tree............. look at the impact grouping on the ground and adjust the convergence to get a close group around the tree...... so you now have the guns set for the distance you would shoot a plane.. incidently it seems to work better on the winter maps..

Frequent_Flyer
06-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
79 year old Stella Liebeck suffered third degree burns on her groin and inner thighs while trying to add sugar to her coffee at a McDonalds drive through. Third degree burns are the most serious kind of burn. McDonalds knew it had a problem. There were at least 700 previous cases of scalding coffee incidents at McDonalds before Liebeck's case. McDonalds had settled many claim before but refused Liebeck's request for $20,000 compensation, forcing the case into court. Lawyers found that McDonalds makes its coffee 30-50 degrees hotter than other restaurants, about 190 degrees. Doctors testified that it only takes 2-7 seconds to cause a third degree burn at 190 degrees. McDonalds knew its coffee was exceptionally hot but testified that they had never consulted with burn specialist. The Shriner Burn Institute had previously warned McDonalds not to serve coffee above 130 degrees. And so the jury came back with a decision- $160,000 for compensatory damages. But because McDonalds was guilty of "willful, reckless, malicious or wanton conduct" punitive damages were also applied. The jury set the award at $2.7 million. The judge then reduced the fine to less than half a million. Ms. Liebeck then settled with McDonalds for a sum reported to be much less than a half million dollars. McDonald's coffee is now sold at the same temperature as most other restaurants.

Couldn't the old hag feel the heat coming through the paper cup?

We were involved in the defense of McDonalds. What I have found in most of my dealings: You really don't know what people are capable of, when money is involved.

Aaron_GT
06-09-2007, 12:07 PM
One of the problems in the game is that to get sufficient situational awareness you need to be zoomed out but for good shooting at 300m you need to be zoomed in. I am not sure that there is a natural solution to this in a dogfight, even using zoom from trackIR. Against bombers (which move around less) it is a bit more possible to zoom in to fire.

The only solution is probably a 1:1 FOV and a really wide screen on a big monitor, which is probably too expensive. Perhaps at some point VR goggles will provide sufficient field of vision and acuity at a sensible price.

Aaron_GT
06-09-2007, 12:10 PM
Couldn't the old hag feel the heat coming through the paper cup?

Quite possibly not. As people get older they are less able to sense the temperature of an object. The burns she received were quite horrific (and you heal very slowly at that age).

Divine-Wind
06-09-2007, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
One of the problems in the game is that to get sufficient situational awareness you need to be zoomed out but for good shooting at 300m you need to be zoomed in. I am not sure that there is a natural solution to this in a dogfight, even using zoom from trackIR. Against bombers (which move around less) it is a bit more possible to zoom in to fire.

The only solution is probably a 1:1 FOV and a really wide screen on a big monitor, which is probably too expensive. Perhaps at some point VR goggles will provide sufficient field of vision and acuity at a sensible price.
One trick I use is to map the Zoomed in and Normal views mapped to the hatswitch on my X52 throttle, and it works very well. The downside is that anyone without a HOTAS won't be able to do this.