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LBR_Rommel
07-23-2005, 08:46 AM
S!

Ive been plaing 401 and i have the impression that 190a series lost power, i feel it like it have a slow acceleration and it is realy slow, some good soul have some tests and numbers about it?

Thanks

<O|

BBB_Hyperion
07-23-2005, 08:57 AM
The speed seems to bleed far less than before thats a problem. Be sure to use trim makes some km/h in acceleration process.

Kwiatos
07-23-2005, 10:30 AM
For my opinion Fw190 in Fb/Pf has to weak acceleration.

BBB_Hyperion
07-23-2005, 10:45 AM
It is both acceleration and deceleration maybe a result of the new fm. Relative performance to other planes maybe the reason for it as well.

3.JG51_BigBear
07-23-2005, 11:06 AM
It may be a little more sluggish but it seems to have improved significantly in other areas. Its over all handling/stability seems to have increased noticeably and buffeting in turns happens later than it used to.

HelSqnProtos
07-23-2005, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
It may be a little more sluggish but it seems to have improved significantly in other areas. Its over all handling/stability seems to have increased noticeably and buffeting in turns happens later than it used to.

Agreed.

Kwiatos
07-23-2005, 12:53 PM
But still Fw190in 4.01is too forgiving in stall/spin characteristic.

Should be like these:

" Flight Characteristics

The Fw 190 is very much a "Pilot's" aircraft. It will reward the skilled operator, but will turn on the novice with great malice. It boasts superb control harmony and is very maneuverable, however, beware the accelerated stall. The aircraft will whip into a spin with almost no warning and recovery is quite challenging. Aileron turns are this aircraft's forte, but the actual turn rate is far less than a Spitfire, and comparable to a Mustang. The aircraft can outroll most of its competition but the stall characteristics make it difficult to turn with an adversary.

Stalls

A stall in the Fw 190 in clean configuration is sudden and comes without much warning and a sudden wing drop, so avoidance is the best policy. In the landing configuration, with flaps and gear down, there is more warning and the left wing will drop more gently. Accelerated stalls should be avoided completely, as the aircraft tends to snap roll the opposite direction and go into a spin. A very high level of situational awareness is required when flying this aircraft near its limits.

Spins

Like any high performance plane of this type, spins are not recommended. The aircraft will tend to lose a great deal of altitude if recovery is not immediate. Power-on spins are much worse; if the aircraft spins with power on, cut the power, neutralize the ailerons, and apply rudder opposite the direction of the spin.

Permissible Acrobatics

All acrobatics are permissible, with the exception of snap rolls and power-on spins.

faustnik
07-23-2005, 01:47 PM
I miss the stall characteristics of previous versions too.

I've read some conflicting info on it, some much different than the RAF test, so "realistic" stall is somewhat uncertain. I like the more difficult version though as a personal preference. If it is easy, everyone will fly it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Fehler
07-23-2005, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
I miss the stall characteristics of previous versions too.

I've read some conflicting info on it, some much different than the RAF test, so "realistic" stall is somewhat uncertain. I like the more difficult version though as a personal preference. If it is easy, everyone will fly it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

See you are being selfish! Everyone should fly the butcher bird!

Get out of those under-gunned, cramped little baby planes 109'ers! Give up your round-d-round fighting style! Rid yourselves of the grapefruit plunking Mk108's! See the Light!

LOL

faustnik
07-23-2005, 03:19 PM
Oh no Fehler, don't let it happen! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

p1ngu666
07-23-2005, 04:55 PM
always thought 190 was a edgy fighter, its probably too stable now, probably needs tobe between its old self and the current one

Fehler
07-24-2005, 12:28 AM
This is just a thought, but think about it.

The 3.04 190 was "Edgier". But was that perhaps a function of it's roll rate and not of it's stall characteristics? When it used to reach the edge of a stall, it would start to roll. It still does that, believe me, but it is easier to avoid the snap stall of old. I dont find the elevator any more forgiving than it was, but it is obvious to me that the roll is not as crisp as it was either.

Now, I dont know how the game code works, but anyone can clearly see that the 190's roll rate in 4.01 is vastly different than it used to be.

This is what leads me to belive that the new "Friendliness" some people are experiencing with the 190 is a function of it's lessened roll rate, and not actually a lowering of it's stall speed.

In fact, the plane takes longer to taxi and come up to speed for take-off than it once did, but begins to lift from the ground just as it used to (Same speed). Does this not mean that stall is the same? At least on the deck?

So again, I will restate my belief that the change in the roll rate (Caused by the inertia modeling) is the factor that changed in the plane. Does that make sense to anyone else but me?

faustnik
07-24-2005, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by Fehler:


So again, I will restate my belief that the change in the roll rate (Caused by the inertia modeling) is the factor that changed in the plane. Does that make sense to anyone else but me?

Hmmm, interesting idea, the stall speeds seem close to historic so, you might have something there. ???

JG5_UnKle
07-24-2005, 06:03 AM
Yes Fehler, I think so. As the 190 is not rolling like it did at high speed you are somewhat less likely to combine a rapid roll with elevator and stall out.

These accelerated stalls were the bane of new fb 190 vpilots.

But of no bother to Experten like you and Faustnik http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TX-Gunslinger
07-24-2005, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Fehler:
This is just a thought, but think about it.

The 3.04 190 was "Edgier". But was that perhaps a function of it's roll rate and not of it's stall characteristics? When it used to reach the edge of a stall, it would start to roll. It still does that, believe me, but it is easier to avoid the snap stall of old. I dont find the elevator any more forgiving than it was, but it is obvious to me that the roll is not as crisp as it was either.

Now, I dont know how the game code works, but anyone can clearly see that the 190's roll rate in 4.01 is vastly different than it used to be.

This is what leads me to belive that the new "Friendliness" some people are experiencing with the 190 is a function of it's lessened roll rate, and not actually a lowering of it's stall speed.

In fact, the plane takes longer to taxi and come up to speed for take-off than it once did, but begins to lift from the ground just as it used to (Same speed). Does this not mean that stall is the same? At least on the deck?

So again, I will restate my belief that the change in the roll rate (Caused by the inertia modeling) is the factor that changed in the plane. Does that make sense to anyone else but me?

S~ Fehler

That's the best description of the new FM "feeling" I've seen yet.

If I could have just one thing "back", it would be my roll-rate and the crispness of transition into the roll.

This is, I believe, the one indisputable "hallmark" handling character of the FW series.

"Think roll, not turn"

Gun

BlackStar2000
07-25-2005, 08:43 AM
A lot of things on this late patch its odd, La now are very resistent on dives, Fw190A4-5-6 dont reach 500kmh not even if you pray, about DM i cant say much, but FM has changed to worse, we may see a few uber stuff on both sides here and there, but you ask for it, now you have it.

JtD
07-25-2005, 08:57 AM
I don't think it has lost anything, it always took ages to take off with. Imho the problems are around the new FM, which forces you to make more corrections on take off - which slow you down.

And if asked for numbers: I got 163 kills (confirmed by stats program) before I died (crashed due to blackout) on UK-D server. Fw 190 is still the best plane in this sim.

fordfan25
07-25-2005, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by LBR_Rommel:
S!

Ive been plaing 401 and i have the impression that 190a series lost power, i feel it like it have a slow acceleration and it is realy slow, some good soul have some tests and numbers about it?

Thanks

<O|

thats because thay equipped it with that tiger tank in its rear that seems to absorb all in comeing fire from 6: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

OldMan___
07-25-2005, 03:55 PM
As soon as 401 was released I made som acceleration test and posted here. If someone can find it again...

In fact FW190A INCREASED acceleration. The A9 in fact increased quite a lot.


Something relevant is that drag on FW bomb rack is back again. So when you remove outer guns.. you loose 30 kph.


Thisnk post name was "acceleration test".

BBB_Hyperion
07-25-2005, 06:01 PM
Hmm Bombrack should be 7 km/h .)

BlackStar2000
07-26-2005, 06:19 AM
Unbelievable, all upadates mess around with something in this game, this was the worse, only to have planes dancing sideways or up and down? why not use Michael jackson as programer, he can make american planes walk backwards.

Hoarmurath
07-26-2005, 07:12 AM
You have to understand that 4.01 is actually somewhat an open beta test for BoB FMs. It is certainly not correct, and will need some adjustments. Well, this is why there are beta tests, to test and correct mistakes.

I haven't flown 190 alot since 4.01 is out, but when i did, what really annoyed me was the inability to get the ball centered without acting on rudder, at any speed.

If i well remember, the plane was much more stable and didn't had such issues.

The plane also had much torque and was indeed difficult to keep on runway. I know that it is an issue with all planes now, but i was under the impression that it was overdone for this one. I had less problems taking off with a F4U, wich should have much more torque than 190.

Beside that the 190 seemed to fly as he always did in FB...

anarchy52
07-26-2005, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Kwiatos:
Aileron turns are this aircraft's forte, but the actual turn rate is far less than a Spitfire, and comparable to a Mustang.

Suggesting FW-190 and P-51 should have similar turn rate...

IMHO, FW-190F8's handling suffered the most in latest patch...it handles terribly despite the fact that it's not heavier then A8 it's derived from.
But, rule-of-thumb in FB always was that German planes were inferior in manuverability. forget powerloading, liftloading, wingloading etc.

ZG77_Nagual
07-26-2005, 08:48 AM
I miss the good old days - when nobody in their right mind would fly the 190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I think the roll rate now is much closer to reality however. Other aspects seem fine to me. Now that it's easy I pretty much stay away from it.

OldMan___
07-26-2005, 11:23 AM
FW190 is better than ever. REally don't know why some people think it got worse.

FW190 was probably the plane most bennefited from teh patch.. excluded the P38. E- retention is good. It feels more like a car on soft coils while in 3.04 was a car on hard suspension.

Is accelerates better now. Now it needs to put nose up more than it used to climb same rate. In fact the UP force on very high speed is reduced.. Think that helped the E retention.. and also helps to keep aim while on fast dives.


Since 4.01 I feel confident on building up E advantage on a SPIT9. So for me it is just as it should be.

Only problem is speed lost with bombracks is RIDICULOUS!!! FW190A5 cannot pass 544 kph sea level when without outer guns

BlackStar2000
07-26-2005, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by OldMan___:
FW190 is better than ever. REally don't know why some people think it got worse.

FW190 was probably the plane most bennefited from teh patch.. excluded the P38. E- retention is good. It feels more like a car on soft coils while in 3.04 was a car on hard suspension.

Is accelerates better now. Now it needs to put nose up more than it used to climb same rate. In fact the UP force on very high speed is reduced.. Think that helped the E retention.. and also helps to keep aim while on fast dives.


Since 4.01 I feel confident on building up E advantage on a SPIT9. So for me it is just as it should be.

Only problem is speed lost with bombracks is RIDICULOUS!!! FW190A5 cannot pass 544 kph sea level when without outer guns

Vai dar uma olhada nos yaks, especialmente de 1943, parace brinquedinho da estrela, foi modelado pela Xuxa.

Las eswtão muito mais rapidos e me diz uma coisa aqui, qual a velocidade de La quebrar as asas?

OldMan___
07-26-2005, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by BlackStar2000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
FW190 is better than ever. REally don't know why some people think it got worse.

FW190 was probably the plane most bennefited from teh patch.. excluded the P38. E- retention is good. It feels more like a car on soft coils while in 3.04 was a car on hard suspension.

Is accelerates better now. Now it needs to put nose up more than it used to climb same rate. In fact the UP force on very high speed is reduced.. Think that helped the E retention.. and also helps to keep aim while on fast dives.


Since 4.01 I feel confident on building up E advantage on a SPIT9. So for me it is just as it should be.

Only problem is speed lost with bombracks is RIDICULOUS!!! FW190A5 cannot pass 544 kph sea level when without outer guns

Vai dar uma olhada nos yaks, especialmente de 1943, parace brinquedinho da estrela, foi modelado pela Xuxa.

Las eswtão muito mais rapidos e me diz uma coisa aqui, qual a velocidade de La quebrar as asas? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will answer you in english if you don't mind.

The fact that another plane, like La (as you point) may have a problem, does not make the FW190 wrong or worse. FW190 feels better than ever. If the planes with slats have problems.. this is another issue.

About the Yak... in fact if you test the speed of the yaks.. some of them are up to 17km/h too slow at SL. That is hardly OVERMODELING. I played some time with Yaks, they are good planes but are not "like toys", specially because their roll drops quite a lot at high speeds. At high speed combat, and if possible at >3000 meters.. while at my FW190 I fear no Yak (not more than I would fear any other plane). Fighting an yak at sea level was not an "walk in the park" in real life...


I did not tested the La series much since patch so I can't say much about it. But La series was always the best series in this game so this is not a change. La-5FN is from long time a FW killer. Perfect for this job. ( I do not consider LA7 since I still don't beleive a plane can have such strange acceleration behavior).

LBR_W.Zellot
07-26-2005, 07:12 PM
S!

Well, if the Fw190 acceleration actually increased in the last patch, as you state, the acceleration of the Yak series has also been beefed up considerably. If you don't have E advantage of any sort against a contemporary Yak(excluding the Yak-9U and 3) you will not outaccelerate it. I dunno if this is right historically, but I know it wasn't possible in the old patch, at least not in all speeds/circumstances.

AND Fw190 has that funny MG jam bug http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OldMan____
07-27-2005, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by LBR_W.Zellot:
S!

Well, if the Fw190 acceleration actually increased in the last patch, as you state, the acceleration of the Yak series has also been beefed up considerably. If you don't have E advantage of any sort against a contemporary Yak(excluding the Yak-9U and 3) you will not outaccelerate it. I dunno if this is right historically, but I know it wasn't possible in the old patch, at least not in all speeds/circumstances.

AND Fw190 has that funny MG jam bug http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Think are not few the planes that had acceleration changes.

I beleive Yak-3 is still the vice king of acceleration in this game. (The king being La7 still). That is not so strange. POwer/weight ration on it is great. But test FW190A9 and D9 alongside with russian planes and you will see they are not that bad anymore. When I have time I will remake some acceleration tests (this week I am stuck finishing my master thesis.. so no chance).

Againts Yaks... just bring them up. At 3K you are on slight advantage. At 5k... the yak has NO CHANCE against a FW190 of Bf109.

BTW.. forget that mnual propeller pitch until you reach 500 kph.. before that.. it DECREASES your acceleration.

BlackStar2000
07-27-2005, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by OldMan___:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BlackStar2000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
FW190 is better than ever. REally don't know why some people think it got worse.

FW190 was probably the plane most bennefited from teh patch.. excluded the P38. E- retention is good. It feels more like a car on soft coils while in 3.04 was a car on hard suspension.

Is accelerates better now. Now it needs to put nose up more than it used to climb same rate. In fact the UP force on very high speed is reduced.. Think that helped the E retention.. and also helps to keep aim while on fast dives.


Since 4.01 I feel confident on building up E advantage on a SPIT9. So for me it is just as it should be.

Only problem is speed lost with bombracks is RIDICULOUS!!! FW190A5 cannot pass 544 kph sea level when without outer guns

Vai dar uma olhada nos yaks, especialmente de 1943, parace brinquedinho da estrela, foi modelado pela Xuxa.

Las eswtão muito mais rapidos e me diz uma coisa aqui, qual a velocidade de La quebrar as asas? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will answer you in english if you don't mind.

The fact that another plane, like La (as you point) may have a problem, does not make the FW190 wrong or worse. FW190 feels better than ever. If the planes with slats have problems.. this is another issue.

About the Yak... in fact if you test the speed of the yaks.. some of them are up to 17km/h too slow at SL. That is hardly OVERMODELING. I played some time with Yaks, they are good planes but are not "like toys", specially because their roll drops quite a lot at high speeds. At high speed combat, and if possible at >3000 meters.. while at my FW190 I fear no Yak (not more than I would fear any other plane). Fighting an yak at sea level was not an "walk in the park" in real life...


I did not tested the La series much since patch so I can't say much about it. But La series was always the best series in this game so this is not a change. La-5FN is from long time a FW killer. Perfect for this job. ( I do not consider LA7 since I still don't beleive a plane can have such strange acceleration behavior). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concordo com vc em parte, só que jogando não vi os Fw190A4-5-6 passar de 500kmh

O d9 nova está ótimo, eu não mexeria nele

Agora o L5 acima 5000 esta se comportando bem demais é pareo duro para o d9

Se vc acha que os Yaks está muito bem, e que 17kmh não seria considerado overmodelling, acho que vc devia rever seus conceitos, 17 kmh é muita coisa.

JtD
07-27-2005, 06:56 AM
Man, try to beat the 163 kills flying a La or Yak. I'm generous, try to beat 81.

The Focke as it is now is so easy to use it is becoming ridiculous. It is close to boring to fly it.

Imho the king of (slow speed) acceration is the P-39. But that's just an impression, not a stop watch figure.

alert_1
07-27-2005, 07:50 AM
I really dont understant why teh Yak3 shouldbe king in acceleration. Weight/power ration=2660/1240=2.14
Even Me109F4 has the ratio=2750/1350=2.037.

OldMan____
07-27-2005, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by BlackStar2000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BlackStar2000:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
FW190 is better than ever. REally don't know why some people think it got worse.

FW190 was probably the plane most bennefited from teh patch.. excluded the P38. E- retention is good. It feels more like a car on soft coils while in 3.04 was a car on hard suspension.

Is accelerates better now. Now it needs to put nose up more than it used to climb same rate. In fact the UP force on very high speed is reduced.. Think that helped the E retention.. and also helps to keep aim while on fast dives.


Since 4.01 I feel confident on building up E advantage on a SPIT9. So for me it is just as it should be.

Only problem is speed lost with bombracks is RIDICULOUS!!! FW190A5 cannot pass 544 kph sea level when without outer guns

Vai dar uma olhada nos yaks, especialmente de 1943, parace brinquedinho da estrela, foi modelado pela Xuxa.

Las eswtão muito mais rapidos e me diz uma coisa aqui, qual a velocidade de La quebrar as asas? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will answer you in english if you don't mind.

The fact that another plane, like La (as you point) may have a problem, does not make the FW190 wrong or worse. FW190 feels better than ever. If the planes with slats have problems.. this is another issue.

About the Yak... in fact if you test the speed of the yaks.. some of them are up to 17km/h too slow at SL. That is hardly OVERMODELING. I played some time with Yaks, they are good planes but are not "like toys", specially because their roll drops quite a lot at high speeds. At high speed combat, and if possible at >3000 meters.. while at my FW190 I fear no Yak (not more than I would fear any other plane). Fighting an yak at sea level was not an "walk in the park" in real life...


I did not tested the La series much since patch so I can't say much about it. But La series was always the best series in this game so this is not a change. La-5FN is from long time a FW killer. Perfect for this job. ( I do not consider LA7 since I still don't beleive a plane can have such strange acceleration behavior). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Concordo com vc em parte, só que jogando não vi os Fw190A4-5-6 passar de 500kmh

O d9 nova está ótimo, eu não mexeria nele

Agora o L5 acima 5000 esta se comportando bem demais é pareo duro para o d9

Se vc acha que os Yaks está muito bem, e que 17kmh não seria considerado overmodelling, acho que vc devia rever seus conceitos, 17 kmh é muita coisa. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vc não entendeu.. o Yak 9D está 17 kmh MAIS LENTO que devia!

Sobre 500 kph com os FW.. eu alcanço isso com relativa frequência (a nao ser que eu tenha bomb racks que com o bug atual fica impossivel). Frequentemente eu persigo outros avioes no nÃÂ*vel do mar e chego a 530-540 IAS.

NO FW190A4 um pouco menos ..talvez 510 IAS (que corresponde a 530 TAS).

Em verdade eu dificilmente vou esperar alcançar 500 kph na horizontal om qualquer avião. Eu prefiro um jogo de Build up de energia pra poder acelerar rápido em uma descida. FW não foi feito pra ficar na horizontal. Ele tbm hoje temum arrasto MUITO forte do radiador. Feche-os na hora de acelerar. Muita gente joga com radiadores em OPEN. NO FW190A8 isso te corta 21 kmh!!!! Eu prefiro manerar an potencia quando ela não é necessária pra poder lutar com radiadores fechados ou em 2.

Sobre o La5.. eu realmente não sei como era o desempenho dele em altas altitudes.. sei que não era tão ruim quanto o Yak. Mas acima de 5K eu encaro até um LA7.

OldMan____
07-27-2005, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by alert_1:
I really dont understant why teh Yak3 shouldbe king in acceleration. Weight/power ration=2660/1240=2.14
Even Me109F4 has the ratio=2750/1350=2.037.


My data on Yak 3 are # Weight

* empty,1,990kg (4,380lb)
* max,2,670kg (5,900lb)

# Power Plant1,650hp Klimov VK-107A


This is the late Yak3 and I supposed you were talking about it.

add that to very small surface area and you have a very good acceleration plane. Also people must understand that simple power output is not linear to performance. As you increase more and more the power... the transformation of engine power in thrust becomes less effective. So a 2000kg plane with 1000hp engine will out accelerate a 4000 kg plane with a 2000hp engine.


All that , but must be granted that bf109 is also one of the best dragsters in game (just close the radiators).

LBR_W.Zellot
07-27-2005, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
Man, try to beat the 163 kills flying a La or Yak. I'm generous, try to beat 81.

The Focke as it is now is so easy to use it is becoming ridiculous. It is close to boring to fly it.

Imho the king of (slow speed) acceration is the P-39. But that's just an impression, not a stop watch figure.

Lol

I can assure you, if you give a La to a seasoned Fw190 pilot he will probably do much better than with the Wurger itself. Now give a Fw190 to a seasoned La pilot and the story will be quite different.
Just some food for thought.

OldMan____
07-27-2005, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by LBR_W.Zellot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
Man, try to beat the 163 kills flying a La or Yak. I'm generous, try to beat 81.

The Focke as it is now is so easy to use it is becoming ridiculous. It is close to boring to fly it.

Imho the king of (slow speed) acceration is the P-39. But that's just an impression, not a stop watch figure.

Lol

I can assure you, if you give a La to a seasoned Fw190 pilot he will probably do much better than with the Wurger itself. Now give a Fw190 to a seasoned La pilot and the story will be quite different.
Just some food for thought. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure about that. I would prefer FW190 than any LA5. LA5FN is about same for me.. it will depend on wich FW I can choose from. LA7 of course is another subject. Anyone would be more effective in an La7 than in ANY other plane.

faustnik
07-27-2005, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by JtD:

The Focke as it is now is so easy to use it is becoming ridiculous. It is close to boring to fly it.


Hah! So it's not just me!

I have never flown and actual Fw190, only Oleg's versions. The early Oleg versions were harder to fly because of more difficult stall/spin characteristics, and more fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Relative zoom climb (vs. the Spits, Las, Yaks) is better now, which makes sense to me. My preference would be for the 4.01 relative zoom/dive with the earlier, more nasty, spin/stall.

Again, my actual combat time in a real Fw190 is somewhat "limited". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JtD
07-27-2005, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by LBR_W.Zellot:
Lol

I can assure you, if you give a La to a seasoned Fw190 pilot he will probably do much better than with the Wurger itself. Now give a Fw190 to a seasoned La pilot and the story will be quite different.
Just some food for thought.

Okay, I am a seasoned FW pilot. I get a K/D of 150 in a FW. I get a K/D of 15 in a La. I am a seasoned La pilot, too. 150>>15. Plate cleared.

faustnik, glad to see someone with a FW in his sig agrees. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hoarmurath
07-27-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by JtD:

Okay, I am a seasoned FW pilot. I get a K/D of 150 in a FW. I get a K/D of 15 in a La. I am a seasoned La pilot, too. 150>>15. Plate cleared.

faustnik, glad to see someone with a FW in his sig agrees. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

yep, all to do about relative plane strengths, nothing to do about relative avearage level of virtual pilots of both sides...

faustnik
07-27-2005, 02:30 PM
Hoarmurath,

Obviously JtD's stats are the results of a lot of factors. The bugged DM of the Fw190 might account for a lot. His general statement that the Fw190 is easier to fly in 4.01 than previous versions of PF is true however.

As for Fw190 vs. La series (in PF 4.01), the La has a lot of avantages over the Fw190A4 at low altitude, and would be the favorite in a DF. The La5FN has similar advantages over the Fw190A5/6. In a late war comparison, the La7 would own an Fw190A8/9 in a furball. I'm not exactly sure were JtD is going in his comparison of the two plane types.

BBB_Hyperion
07-27-2005, 03:15 PM
Jtd maybe it has just to do with Mg151 fixed not 3 or 4 passes anymore .)

Further when you archived this killrate alone means without cover on UKD you were just lucky cause majority of the ppl fly at low level and likelyness of high alt encounters is low . Not even to investigate your targets were it low flying bombers , jabos, fighters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ?

So i wish to see how your killrate holds in a 1 vs 1 Situation on equal alt vs late troublemakers like la5fn, spit viii for a4 a5 a6 and la7 vs a8 , a9 and d9 vs p51, p63, yak9u .

Flying the 190 is not easier its even harder cause of the torque. The inability to slow down fast since the patch has in fact reduced surviving in a 190 . (Problem with burning fuel is another dm bug which will be fixed hopefully soon ). The e rentention on 190 increased but that doesnt make it a easy plane to fly. Its pretty much a teamplane without team its weaknesses can be exploited.

So i agree with Faustnik .)

LBR_W.Zellot
07-27-2005, 03:24 PM
Apparently you didn't get my hint. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If you take a Fw190 pilot, and make him energy fight with the La's, he will get a much better result than in the Fw190 itself.
Now a La pilot put into a Fw190 and make him fly it like a La. Get my point? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So no, the Fw190 is not "so easy to fly it become ridiculous". I could say that of the La series, but I won't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

anarchy52
07-27-2005, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
Okay, I am a seasoned FW pilot. I get a K/D of 150 in a FW. I get a K/D of 15 in a La. I am a seasoned La pilot, too. 150>>15. Plate cleared.


1) You re nobody
2) You have no idea what you're talking about
3) I'd challenge You for 1on1 but that would just prove me being a better pilot.
4) Now go back to flying whatever your pimpwagon of choice is and stop poluting the internet with your BS.

god**** forum aces.

OldMan____
07-27-2005, 05:45 PM
1vs1 means NOTHING... there is no modality of combat that is less related to skill. 1vs1 happened once every 2000 combats in real life.


I would take a FW on top of an LA everyday. Exactly because I know much better its behavior and it has a miuch superior weapons array. The LA5 series is more or less on par with FW series in a reasonable combat environment.. that is at least 3vs3 or 4vs4. The LA7 series is no doubt superior.


I think FW survivability did not got any reduction from the new best E retention.. on the contrary. I really don't know how someone might take deacceleration capability over E retention capability.

BBB_Hyperion
07-27-2005, 05:55 PM
Maybe you really dont know Oldman http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But when you need a test concerning the issue . I have little time this week but next would be ok .

OldMan____
07-27-2005, 06:38 PM
Until monday I am busy finishing my Master's thesys. But later we can talk. I personnaly don like the idea of using deaceleration at a defense method, since you will be a duck for the next guy comming 1 km behind you.

A.K.Davis
07-27-2005, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
Until monday I am busy finishing my Master's thesys. But later we can talk. I personnaly don like the idea of using deaceleration at a defense method, since you will be a duck for the next guy comming 1 km behind you.

It is not defense. It is desperation.

JtD
07-27-2005, 10:52 PM
yep, all to do about relative plane strengths, nothing to do about relative avearage level of virtual pilots of both sides...

Certainly a factor, but not the deciding one.


Obviously JtD's stats are the results of a lot of factors. The bugged DM of the Fw190 might account for a lot.

No, best is not to get hit at all. I did not feel the DM did anything good for me except when a B-25 jumped me on take off.


I'm not exactly sure were JtD is going in his comparison of the two plane types.

Not into furballs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You fly both planes to their relative strenghts and the Focke rules.


Not even to investigate your targets were it low flying bombers , jabos, fighters

You bet that most of my kills were flying lower than I or max co-alt. However, with the Focke your chances are good to survive against higher enemies and wrt what I shot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif:
Yak's 1-9: 23
Yak's 3&9u: 5
LaGG's: 29
La-5's: 25
La-7: 5
IL-2's: 15
P-38's: 14
P-39's: 8
P-40's: 1
P-47's: 4
P-51's: 4
P-63: 1
Spit V's: 13
Spit VIII & IX's: 10
A-20: 1
B-25: 3
Beaufighter: 2

I have a speed advantage over almost any contemproray plane at about 4-5k. If it's not a La I also have an advantage below 2k. I can outdive anything and at high speed outmaneuver anything. Keeps you alive, makes you deadly, even in a 1 vs. 1.

Btw, if you cut the throttle, the 190 slows down as if you attached a parachute. Downside is every plane does.


If you take a Fw190 pilot, and make him energy fight with the La's, he will get a much better result than in the Fw190 itself.

The La sucks at energy fighting. Even worse at B'n'Z. You don't have the firepower you need. You don't have the dive limit you need. You don't have the high speed handling you need. It has good E retention and it outclimbs the Focke, but this is not enough. This means you usually end up chasing someones tail for minutes, until a buddy shows up in a FW and blasts you out of the sky.
Focke is the easier plane "to do combat in", maybe "to fly" was the wrong phrase.


2) You have no idea what you're talking about

Good you post nonetheless.

faustnik
07-27-2005, 11:12 PM
"Focke is the easier plane "to do combat in", maybe "to fly" was the wrong phrase."

That sounds right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BBB_Hyperion
07-28-2005, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
I have a speed advantage over almost any contemproray plane at about 4-5k.


You need to get down to shoot something .) But up there mig3u and la7 and several spit models not even to talk of i185M-71. Surely depending on FW model . Run is the only option while enemy plane climbs and dont follows leaves you at run mode until help comes or enemy pilot makes a fault.



If it's not a La I also have an advantage below 2k.


well mig38 is a nice fw a4 hunter too .



I can outdive anything and at high speed outmaneuver anything. Keeps you alive, makes you deadly, even in a 1 vs. 1.


Show me a a6 outdiving spit viii .) It catches up in the last stages of the dive.



Btw, if you cut the throttle, the 190 slows down as if you attached a parachute. Downside is every plane does.


I can by no way reduce throttle that fast to compete with the 109 that can do a airbrake like move, 190 is not able to slow down fast enough to cause overshoot like before. The e rentention is just a make up for lacking acceleration and deacceleration in slow speed regime . A problem that can be found in different aspects. High speed drag modeling closing on mach speed without vmax dive limits for i16,i153 etc (vmax dive where the plane stops to accelerate) and slow speed regime most high hp planes dont give the impression of a +-1700-2000 hp engine but thats a deeper problem of the fm.

JtD
07-28-2005, 12:50 AM
You need to get down to shoot something .)

Yes, indeed. And the good story: I can. I got the handling, the dive limit, the firepower. No other plane can do this nearly as well.


But up there mig3u and la7 and several spit models not even to talk of i185M-71. Surely depending on FW model . Run is the only option while enemy plane climbs and dont follows leaves you at run mode until help comes or enemy pilot makes a fault.

In a 1vs1 of almost any two aircraft in a co alt situation, both flow by good pilots to their relative strenght's and for survival, usually both will survive. If I have a speed advantage - I run. If I have a climb advantage - I climb. There is no way an enemy gets into a commanding position if you don't allow it.
And the good point about running: You can get where you want, fast. If you climb, you stay where you are, only higher. Even worse if your only strenght is low speed turning and low altitude...


well mig38 is a nice fw a4 hunter too.

It's fast, climbs and turns well. But it lacks all qualities you need for B'n'Z. Good for a 1vs1 and for running, but not good for a true air battle or for kills.


Show me a a6 outdiving spit viii .) It catches up in the last stages of the dive.

Last time I checked the Spit would break up at 30 kph less than a FW. Have not tried this with A6 and Spit VIII since 4.01.


I can by no way reduce throttle that fast to compete with the 109 that can do a airbrake like move, 190 is not able to slow down fast enough to cause overshoot like before.

While this is true, I am still under the impression that the FW breaks better than before if throttle is cut. But so do all other planes. (See my barrel roll topic shortly after 4.01 appeared.)

OldMan____
07-28-2005, 06:15 AM
I and a few other fellows here amde some online side by side tests. And FW190 DOES outdive Spit VII (in fact we tested iX.. but not big difference expected). At teh very speed limit is not a question of outive but of pilot courage (or supidity). But from 280kph at 8k... at about 30 degrees dive my FW opened almost 200 meters from the Spitfire that was exactly at my side at beggining of dive. Distance measured when the firt of us (FW in fact) reached 800 IAS.

Big_Bad_Wulf
07-28-2005, 06:31 AM
The Mig isn`t a great fighter, but it`s excellent against FW 190 A4/5 and in some cases 6.
But the Focke is godd, as it should be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Same as the Mustang.
But if the Mustang MK III is on a server, the FW 190 is dead meat. Usually one 1 sec burst with 4 cal. 50 and the FW 190 controls are damaged and I flew very seldom the last weeks.

OldMan____
07-28-2005, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Big_Bad_Wulf:
The Mig isn`t a great fighter, but it`s excellent against FW 190 A4/5 and in some cases 6.
But the Focke is godd, as it should be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Same as the Mustang.
But if the Mustang MK III is on a server, the FW 190 is dead meat. Usually one 1 sec burst with 4 cal. 50 and the FW 190 controls are damaged and I flew very seldom the last weeks.

With exception of the fact that Mustang II pilots get suprised when the FW turns to face it and force a close combat engagement. I killed much more Mustang III this way than they have killed me. At slow speed both planes sucks, so they are even). The best move againt a Mustang III is a scissor, as tight as possible. On this situation the extra 50 kph speed is no relevant. The FW advantage is that is recovers more easily from a stall and has much more firepower to get rid of mustang in case of a snapshot. It seems to me that mustang pilots really don't know what to do when they are forced into a deep bleed turn, they usually commit and only discover that they should not be doing this, when they are under 350 kph.. and is too late to recover their advantage.

ImpStarDuece
07-28-2005, 07:23 AM
I agree with Oldman__ the 190 is a killer in the horiontal scissors.

I came up against a really good 190 flyer ages and ages ago on WarClouds (at least I think it was WarClouds) and he showed me just how effective a 190 can be in close quaters.

I was flying the 3.04 P-51C (my favourite Mustang) and my opponent was in a A6 if memory serves. I managed to get the jump on him but fluffed my first shot and chased him to the deck. I had a decided E advantage and he knew that so kept attempting to sucker me in to tight scissoring contests. Any time I made a firing soultion he would roll and break away faster than I could.

The only soultion I found was a quick Yo-Yo and then attempt to regian contact. I must of made four or five passes at the slippey fellow before I decided to get low and slow and he rattled my cage. I think I got a few shots into him as we swapped positions in the horizontal before I decided I'd had enough and faked a bug out. I then looped back over and managed to get a good frontal delection shot but it was a near run thing.

The 190 is actually one of the best defensive fighters in the game. With its roll rate and instantaneous turn its very hard to get an sustained burst at and if its in trouble it can usually outdive or outrun most of its opponents.

Jaws2002
08-02-2005, 09:13 AM
The FW-190 was way better in defensive before the last patch.
It lost almost half it's roll rate at medium speed. If someone runs you at the ground level and you have to relay on whatever the engine provides to get your speed, I think you are more likely to be shot down in 4.01.
At speeds of 300-450 km/h FW is rolling WAY to slow compared with the real life counterpart.
Some test results i saw on this forum suggest it rolls around 70deg/sec too slow around 400km/h. Just think how would Spitfire MkV roll if it lost 70 deg/sec roll rate. Some planes couldn't even roll 70 deg/sec at 400km/h.
That's a huge loss in my opinion.
FW now turns a bit too good I think, stalls are too gentle and has that annoying DM bug, but is nowhere near the monster some people here say it is.

faustnik
08-02-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:

FW now turns a bit too good I think

Gibbage did some turn testing and the Fw190 rated last behind the P-47 and P-51, so, turn isn't too good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Jaws2002
08-02-2005, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:

FW now turns a bit too good I think

Gibbage did some turn testing and the Fw190 rated last behind the P-47 and P-51, so, turn isn't too good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now I get it.
About the same time 4.01 came out o bought a Saitek X-45 to use the throttle with my CH stick and pedals. Now I have trim at finger tips, that's what explains it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

RAF74_Poker
08-02-2005, 03:00 PM
Well, at risk of getting blasted by the 190 lovers ... I'll step in here.
I fly allied almost exclusively for ETO, and IJN/IJA for Pacific - and I'm no great pilot... as anyone who's flown w/ me can tell you.
That said, I flew the 190-A4 IIRC, against Spit 5, Hurri II, for some training and believe me ... the thing is easy to fly.
Point the front at your enemy and watch it disappear .... no need to aim.
The only thing, and I'm sure was mostly due to my unfamiliarity with it was maintaining E-retention.
That said, I was making 4 - 5 kills for every time I was downed .. and mostly I made a landing or bailout ... not a death.
I'm fairly new to iL2FB, and I guess was too late for the UFO Spits, but if I was telling a noob which plane to fly online with .... it would be a FW190, or a 109.
Easy flying, and easy kills .... a newbies wet dream.

faustnik
08-02-2005, 03:21 PM
I'm fairly new to iL2FB, and I guess was too late for the UFO Spits, but if I was telling a noob which plane to fly online with .... it would be a FW190, or a 109.
Easy flying, and easy kills .... a newbies wet dream.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'll drag my Spit V (U.S. markings of course) out for some 1 on 1 after official flights this week Poker. We can test for a/c n00b factor. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RAF74_Poker
08-02-2005, 03:37 PM
Against an experten like yourself ? No thanks !

You would probably beat me in a Gladiator !
I freely admit to not being very good ... that is exactly my point ... a pilot such as myself can fly well, and get kills in a FW, or a 109, whereas in my usual Spit ...... let's just say my k/d record is nothing to write home about ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do not forget .. you have been flying this sim for how long ?
You will do well in any plane against a novice such as myself .... there is no proof of how easy a plane is to fly if someone as good as yourself can down them in another plane ... moreso look at how many fly Blue now.
Look at how people you know are relatively new handle the planes.
I'd be willing to bet that relative newcomers fare better flying 190 & 109's than they do in Spits nowadays.
Is this correct ... maybe, maybe not ... either way it doesn't matter ... the fact is that the 190 and 109's seem, at least to me to be easy kill machines .... point and shoot, and the ability to point being there.

Jaws2002
08-02-2005, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by RAF74_Poker:
Against an experten like yourself ? No thanks !

You would probably beat me in a Gladiator !
I freely admit to not being very good ... that is exactly my point ... a pilot such as myself can fly well, and get kills in a FW, or a 109, whereas in my usual Spit ...... let's just say my k/d record is nothing to write home about ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do not forget .. you have been flying this sim for how long ?
You will do well in any plane against a novice such as myself .... there is no proof of how easy a plane is to fly if someone as good as yourself can down them in another plane ... moreso look at how many fly Blue now.
Look at how people you know are relatively new handle the planes.
I'd be willing to bet that relative newcomers fare better flying 190 & 109's than they do in Spits nowadays.
Is this correct ... maybe, maybe not ... either way it doesn't matter ... the fact is that the 190 and 109's seem, at least to me to be easy kill machines .... point and shoot, and the ability to point being there.

Don't forget it has 600+ cannon rounds and 2000 mg rounds. It should be easier to hit something. unlike the silly spit5. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

faustnik
08-02-2005, 04:23 PM
A good schwarm of Fw190A4s can mop the floor with Spit Vb and Hurris for sure, but, the 190A a n00b plane, no way. The relative turn and climb require good E management The 109s well, I'll stay out of that one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh, as for kill ability, the Fw190A is #1, as it should be, so you have a point there Poker! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BBB_Hyperion
08-02-2005, 09:27 PM
Faustnik lets do some tests http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif A6 vs VIII with plane swap .)

faustnik
08-02-2005, 11:24 PM
Yes, that would be great. PM me on CWOS and we can set up a time.

tigertalon
08-03-2005, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by faustnik:
Yes, that would be great. PM me on CWOS and we can set up a time.

Guys, let me know how that went. 1v1 IMO VIII has significant advantage, 4v4 odds are pretty even.

vanjast
08-03-2005, 02:00 PM
For those who don't like the FW...
It's a real beaut to fly and very responsive on the controls, not to mention the kick of it's guns. A lot of the FW 'critical' control comes from the rudder, and engine torque. Once you have mastered this, everything else is cannon fodder.

The FW (and Me109) are the most stable A/C at low, just above stall speeds, contrary to what was mentioned earlier. Can you roll a Spit at landing speed, 20m above the ground and not crash ?. There are plenty other manouvers like this where the FW simply outshines all else.. and the high speed stuff is .. well we all know the story.

When this game first came out I latched onto the FW very early and have never let go of it. I suppose it's a matter of preference of quality http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

p1ngu666
08-03-2005, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Yes, that would be great. PM me on CWOS and we can set up a time.

Guys, let me know how that went. 1v1 IMO VIII has significant advantage, 4v4 odds are pretty even. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1v1 climb rate is most important...
ive beaten 190s in a ki43, and no they didnt turn fight... untill they got shaken http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JtD
08-04-2005, 05:52 AM
Ki-43 beats FW 190? How did you ever get a shooting solution (without hvaing 4x20mm firing at you)?

p1ngu666
08-04-2005, 09:15 AM
sucker them into a climb http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

then roll over and dive on them
plus ki43 is massively nimble over 190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif if u get in trouble

Jetbuff
08-06-2005, 02:27 AM
I think the 190 is favoured by "noobs" thanks to the return of the MinenGeschoss. With 4x20mm cannons (let's ignore those puny 7.62mm/13mm MG's) your chances of getting a kill are phenomenal so long as you can draw a bead on the guy. For a pilot new to the game this is doubly attractive, it compensates for low to absent gunnery skill and offers "instant gratification," an item high on the list of casual pilots.

The question is, is this so far removed from the truth? Honestly, I don't think so, it wasn't called the "butcher bird" because of it's resemblance to a pot-bellied meat-vendor. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There are also a few more subtle advantages of the FW190 over other planes in the sim:

- Kommandogerät. Not having to bother with CEM (even on 'manual' it's still a CSP) ranks high on a new player's list I would think.

- Balance. I can see 4.01's torque (watered down or not) being quite intimidating to an aspiring virtual ace. The 190 does not require a lot of rudder attention in flight. You can fly sloppy and get away with it.

- Survivability. While I'm not completely sold on the new DM, it obviously is a desirable feature for anyone who ends up on the receiving end.


At the end of the day though, to be really successful in the 190, especially outside of a team environment, is not easy, not by a long shot. It's just that the dedicated 190 pilots have been at it for a while, even with the previously porked versions. Now, with a plane that is finally on par they obviously excel and attract many newbies who wish to replicate their success.


As far as using K/D ratios to extrapolate a plane's performance, that's just rubbish. Let's put it this way: when I fly the 190, my mindset is completely different than when I fly say an La5FN. In the latter, I tend to tool around at low altitudes attacking everything I see because, more often than not, I can get away with it. As a result my K/D ratio is about the same in both aircraft. Does this mean that the 190A5/6 are equal to the La5FN? Not by a long-shot! (bring up IL-2compare and count the advantages each has if you don't believe me) It's just in a 190 you choose your engagements a lot more carefully.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-07-2005, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
Man, try to beat the 163 kills flying a La or Yak. I'm generous, try to beat 81.

The Focke as it is now is so easy to use it is becoming ridiculous. It is close to boring to fly it.

Imho the king of (slow speed) acceration is the P-39. But that's just an impression, not a stop watch figure.

wow you have 163 confirmed kills on UK-Dedicated OMG!
i may should join this server from time to time and practice some lolly stealing...

BTW: i realy hate the new Rollrate, it is incredible confusing, the TA rolls faster than any other FW's. on the other hand rolling scissors are nearly useless now because the plane is just to bad on rolling...

Fish6891
08-07-2005, 02:15 PM
Those 190s must've been major n00bage P1ng :P

Climb rate is teh nice, but imho its not as deciding a factor as your making it out to be

Imo no single quality is a very deciding factor for a2a battle. Effective combination and utilization of major traits is more important

JG54_Arnie
08-08-2005, 05:09 AM
Originally posted by faustnik:
Yes, that would be great. PM me on CWOS and we can set up a time.

I agree with TT, give us results and tracks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
08-08-2005, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by JaBo_HH-BlackSheep:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
Man, try to beat the 163 kills flying a La or Yak. I'm generous, try to beat 81.

The Focke as it is now is so easy to use it is becoming ridiculous. It is close to boring to fly it.

Imho the king of (slow speed) acceration is the P-39. But that's just an impression, not a stop watch figure.

wow you have 163 confirmed kills on UK-Dedicated OMG!
i may should join this server from time to time and practice some lolly stealing...

BTW: i realy hate the new Rollrate, it is incredible confusing, the TA rolls faster than any other FW's. on the other hand rolling scissors are nearly useless now because the plane is just to bad on rolling... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'll be lined up ready to give you a taste of what some of the regulars on UK-D are capable of.

Not pushovers...thats for sure. You're looking for 334th http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif