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EnGaurde
11-23-2005, 02:02 AM
can anyone confirm or deny the however removed connection of the Ki61 to the He100....?

this isnt a mindless request, i read the japanese took delivery of some He100s early on.

put two and two together...

anyone have anything concrete (-ish)?

EnGaurde
11-23-2005, 02:02 AM
can anyone confirm or deny the however removed connection of the Ki61 to the He100....?

this isnt a mindless request, i read the japanese took delivery of some He100s early on.

put two and two together...

anyone have anything concrete (-ish)?

LEXX_Luthor
11-23-2005, 02:13 AM
That makes Japanese Ki-100 a radial engine development of He-100, and Soviets also bought some He-100s. Radial engine I-185 appeared shortly after.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

nakamura_kenji
11-23-2005, 02:17 AM
he-100 was sell to japanese navy no the army. navy and army no like share information and much rivialry. believe army get bf-109 as this ki-61 test against. ki-61 was one of two design by kawasaki first be ki-60 which db-601 copy engine that kawasaki had liecense make but it was abondon due high weight, poor agility. ki-61 was in develop same time but use ha-40 which lighten simplfiy version of db-601 but this take longer produce so as result ki-61 was far more finish design unlike ki-60 which bit rush. it possible kawasaki take few design idea from he-100 but no straight copy very different in many area bit wrong call it copy just because look similar.

ki-100 design they look at how engine mount and exhaust system on fw-190 that japan have.

LEXX_Luthor
11-23-2005, 02:26 AM
Artists, like military aviation designers, are always inspired by the art of others.

Didn't the Allies think Ki-61 was an Italian fighter? I hear conflicting stories on the origin of the codename "Tony."

nakamura_kenji
11-23-2005, 02:31 AM
yes thought was italian design or bf-109 make under license

this help think

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki-61.html

LEBillfish
11-23-2005, 08:27 AM
nakamura_kenji is very correct in his first post on this.....

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/he100-2.jpg

Actually, one could easily say that....Look in the pic above, nose "shape" is so Ki-61 it is not even funny. Exhaust, cover just over it, wing roots, and even fuselage back to the tail mounting point (tail very LW)...More on the He-100 here....

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he100.html

Nice resource here..very nice...

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/he100.html

Balance here I am not absolutely sure of simply going from book and web resources then speculation.

However, the Japanese, Kawasaki specifically purchased rights to manufacture the DB.601A before any He-100 ever arrived, even plans for by far. More so, those that were bought went to the "Navy"...and that is a VERY important point.

The Navy and the Army in Japan were very separated. In fact, even getting them to coordinate activities was very difficult. It was in fact so separated, the Navy had ground based planes, tanks, troops, etc... & the Army had its own ships and sea duty personnel and equipment.

More so, the Japanese had also purchased a number of BF-109E Series planes for use in tests and other development... http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/testedby/me109/me109.htm . Supposedly as well Takeo Doi & Shin Owada (the designers of the Ki-60/61) were intending to "out design" the "BF-109". In kind the information required to build the He-100 never showed (to the Navy) to be built by "Hitachi"...and just as in the U.S. Hitachi is not Kawasaki like Chrysler is not GM.

However.........Though the body is really quite different from the He-100 & BF-109, shockingly so at the engine mount (the Ki-61 was a uni-body "sort of" design that utilized the sheet metal for support vs. a frame bolted on...much more advanced)....The "shape" is very clearly similar if not almost exactly like that of the He-100. Much of it is, even the covers. Wing roots, canopy area, and fuselage very similar....Oddly as well, Kawasaki also tried developing an "Evaporative Cooling System" just like the He-100.

Now, consider most of us here would read "Western Literature". The Allies at first believing there were many He-100 never the less at first nick named the Ki-61 "Mike" for Messerschmitt BF-109. Today information on the Ki-61 is still just trickling out, language barriers huge to name one reason. So it is "possible" not assured, that Kawasaki did indeed acquire the He-100's when the Navy did not pursue building their He-100 version and utilized it to help in their design. However, considering U.S./British wartime records at first referred to it as a 109, it is very possible that it is assumed the 109 influenced it instead of the He-100.

Yet none of that is clear or positive. We know the Japanese had both types of planes. We know Kawasaki had procured a license to build DB.601A engines yet modified the design to the Ha-40 (they are not the same nor the Navy AE1A/P to either)...and we know the Ki-61 though looking similar was by far not the same plane as either.

So hard to say what exactly happened.....As to the radiator, that is simply common and left wing tank access clear "vs. 109" yet is much larger on the Ki-61. Landing gear though pivoting further out also very different, and common to most if not all Japanese planes so not a proving fact either.

Tater-SW-
11-23-2005, 08:41 AM
The nose shape also has to do with the inverted V engine. Having made that choice, the shape follows.

tater

Waldo.Pepper
11-23-2005, 01:51 PM
http://www.skypoint.com/members/schutz19/durant.gif


It's as plain as the nose on Jimmy's face.

Kuna15
11-23-2005, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Artists, like military aviation designers, are always inspired by the art of others.

Didn't the Allies think Ki-61 was an Italian fighter? I hear conflicting stories on the origin of the codename "Tony." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan///camms/ar/920/pics/32_10.jpg MC.202

http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan///camms/ar/908/pics/32_1.jpg MC.205

http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan///camms/ar/1040/pics/65_27.jpg KI-61

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Planes/He-100D_000.gif

http://www.airwar.ru/transfer/grishan///camms/ar/228/pics/2_1.jpg HE-112

L33T-Zoolander
11-24-2005, 01:31 AM
As for producing a knock-off of the He 100:
"Hitachi won the contract for the plane and started construction of a factory in Chiba for its production."
At the time Kawasaki was working on it's own mark 60 design, for use with the licenced Daimler-Benz 601 liquid cooled inverted V-12 motor, with dry sump oiling an fuel injection.
You can find more information here: http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/he100.html

Good Hunting,
Zoo