PDA

View Full Version : Top ten fighters Discovery channel



tjaika1910
10-30-2005, 11:47 AM
I saw the thread about top ten fighters and thought it was the same program, but not:

(after memory and I zapped a little bit because of the anoying breaks all the time at Discovery http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

1: P-51
2: Spitfire

Sea Harrier
Sabre
Mig 21
F 15
Zero
Fokker (Red Baron WWI)
The Stealth thingy

and one more obviosly.

Quite close call between the spit and mustang though...

VFS-214_Hawk
10-30-2005, 12:25 PM
not what Oleg says

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-30-2005, 12:54 PM
Curious about the criteria they used to make this assessment.

Noteable absences:

Me262
Yak-3
P-47...


TB

p1ngu666
10-30-2005, 01:17 PM
pff they know nothing
bf109 was best, and la7 was 2ndbest

well, atleast in this patch...

jugent
10-30-2005, 01:56 PM
Can you remenber what country discovery is produced in?

ploughman
10-30-2005, 01:58 PM
Sea Harrier was number 3 or is the rest in no particular order?

danjama
10-30-2005, 02:07 PM
In my honest opinion, i am sick to death of reading about these stupid polls. Theres been like four threads pop up on it this week, including a thread months old that someone dug up. Now, no offence to the original poster ok, but these threads on the polls are BS, because they always get the same responses. No offence meant ok. its not personal. Just my opinion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

tjaika1910
10-30-2005, 03:02 PM
The rest was in not in order. The program was interesting, it showed the importance and impact the planes had, and positive and negative sides. Some lucky pilots got to fly the contestants.

I think the program was a bit unformal and did not take the poll so seriously. It was, I think, a british production.

I do not know what this thread could lead to, I din't read the others. No offence ment whatsoever. Just saw a nice little program and thought it was the one in the threads, but it wasnt. Thats all.

Btw: google find some pages concerning it, but the links are dead.

edit: found one


F117 Stealth Fighter

year: 1983
Engine: 2 x General Electric F404-GE-F1D1 Turbovifter
radius: ca. 1110 km
Weight: 13 400 kg
Top speed: ca. 1040 km/t
: L: 20,08 m, h: 3,78 m, wing: 13,20 m
: 10.

DR 1 Fokker Triplane

Year: 1917
Engine: LeRh´ne type J
Radius: 298 km
Weight: 405 kg
Top speed: 185 km/t
: L: 5,77 m, h: 2,95 m, wing: 7,19 m
: 9.

Mitsubishi Zero (A6M2)

Year: 1937
Engine: 1 Nakajima NK1C Sakae 12
Radius: 3107 km
Weight: 1680 kg
Top speed: 533,5 km/t
: L: 9,06 m, h: 3,05 m, wing: 12 m
: 8.

Harrier Jump Jet (AV-8B Harrier II)

Year: 1985
Engine: 1 Rolls-Royce F402-RR-408
Radius: 1000 km
Weight: 10 410 kg
Top speed: 1000 km/t
: L: 14,11 m, h: 3,6 m, wing: 9,24 m
: 7.

F 86 Sabre

Year: 1949
Engine: General Electric J47-GE-17B
Radius: 870 km
Weight: 9136 kg
Top speed: 1107 km/t
: L: 12,27 m, h: 4,57 m, wing: 11,92 m
: 6.

Messerschmidt ME109

Year: 1937
Engine: Daimler-Benz DB 605A
Radius: 550 km
Weight: 2600 kg
Top speed: 635 km/t
: L: 8,94 m, h: 2,59 m, wing: 9,92 m
: 5.

F 18 Super Hornet

Year: 1983
Engineer: 2 F414-GE-400 turbovifter
Radius: 2453 km
Weight: 29 932 kg (maks.)
Top speed: 2145 km/t
: L: 18,5 m, h: 4,87 m, wing: 13,68 m
: 4.

MIG 21 (F-13 / Fishbed C)

Year: 1959
Engine: 1 Tumanski R-11F-300 jet
Radius: 1640 km
Weight: 4600 kg
Top speed: 2093 km/t
: L: 15,77 m, 7,16 m, 4,80 m
: 3.

Supermarine Spitfire

Year: 1938
Engine: 1 Rolls Royce Merlin 45
Radius: 580 km
Weight: 3300 kg
Top speed: 520 km/t
: L: 10,77 m, h: 3,90 m, wing: 11,23 m
: 2.

M51 Mustang

Year: 1941
Engine: 1 Rolls-Royce/Packard Merlin V-1650-7
Radius: 2000 km
Weight: 3450 kg
Top speed: 703 km/t
: L: 9,82 m, h: 4,16 m, wing: 11,28 m
: 1.

nakamura_kenji
10-30-2005, 04:20 PM
f117 = bomber no fighter >_< they do lot research seem not

3.JG51_BigBear
10-30-2005, 04:30 PM
Where's the F-15. Strange list. I would think a plane with almost 100 enemy kills without a single loss to enemy fire would rank pretty high up there on a list of the top ten fighters of all time. Including the Dr1 also confuses me. The plane made no real breakthroughs in fighter technology and saw a relatively short production run.

Ah, whatever, these things are always junk anyways.

Kuna15
10-30-2005, 04:49 PM
I wonder what were their criteria?

Ditto BigBear on Dr.I, I can't tell for sure but seems that plane gained it's enormous fame mostly because of fact that Richthofen's Circus (and the man itself) were flying it.
Other than that I'd select Fokker D.7 as being best axis in ww1 (arguably best ww1 plane) anyday over Dr.I.

panther3485
10-30-2005, 05:32 PM
Hi guys,

I agree.

Not bagging the P-51, (it deserves to be recognized as ONE of the best fighters of WW2), however these 'polls' always seem to be unbalanced. Some designs often get more than their fair share of credit, while others that deserve credit don't even get a mention.

They're cr@p.

And, as nakamura_kenji pointed out.....
F-117 a fighter? What a joke!


panther3485

danjama
10-30-2005, 05:35 PM
Tjaika:

I was not offended mate, not at all, please dont think i was ok i just felt i needed to voice my opinion on all these polls cropping up! Hopefully i never made u think otherwise mate and i hope i never offended you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PS Spitfire Rox http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Friendly_flyer
10-31-2005, 01:01 AM
Must have been a diferent poll from the one that I saw last night. Mustang topped it, Spit at 6 and neighter the Triplane or 109 was even among the runner ups.

ploughman
10-31-2005, 01:27 AM
Harrier Jump Jet (AV-8B Harrier II)

Year: 1985
Engine: 1 Rolls-Royce F402-RR-408
Radius: 1000 km
Weight: 10 410 kg
Top speed: 1000 km/t
: L: 14,11 m, h: 3,6 m, wing: 9,24 m
: 7.


Eh? That's an attack aircraft, not a fighter. The Sea Harrier, based on the older Harrier airframe was a fleet air defence fighter optimized for air to air and the variant that was undefeated in air to air combat. Not this bomb truck. I mean, look at the date. 1985, three years after the Sea Harrier made its reputation.

Lot of bollox.

HotelBushranger
10-31-2005, 04:16 AM
I wonder what were their criteria?

Ditto BigBear on Dr.I, I can't tell for sure but seems that plane gained it's enormous fame mostly because of fact that Richthofen's Circus (and the man itself) were flying it.
Other than that I'd select Fokker D.7 as being best axis in ww1 (arguably best ww1 plane) anyday over Dr.I

Agree, the Dr.1 was the WW1 equivalent of the Zero: turns like a fly but breaks up in a dive...

Best WW1 plane would be a Pfalz, or Se5a. And of course, theres those late 1918 ones that came out but didn't have enough time to affect the war (262 anyone?), but I forget those.

Deedsundone
10-31-2005, 11:49 AM
The criteria was set on a 5 grade scale of:
#1:Kill Ratio
#2:Fear Factor
#3:Innovation
#4:Production Rating
#5:Service Length

BaronUnderpants
10-31-2005, 12:43 PM
Pool after pool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Discovery aired 2 seperate shows conserning the best fighter ever and got 2 totaly different lists, as they said in the latest show they considered wiewers opinions in a pool among other things so it must be accurate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

P.S. The second show came up with this top 10 list:

10. F22 Raptor
9. Sea Harrier FA2
8. Sopwith Camel
7. Me 262
6. Spitfire
4. Mig-15 ( Tie between Mig and F-86 )
F-86
3. F-4 Phantom
2. F-15C
1. P-51 Mustang

ploughman
10-31-2005, 01:16 PM
The FA2 isn't the same version of the Sea Harrier that flew during the Falklands War, coming into service 11 years later (am I becoming a Harrier bore?). Do they just pick the last mark of an aircraft type to give the gong to? Sort of makes sense I suppose.

Doug_Thompson
10-31-2005, 02:01 PM
The "greatest" fighter of all time was the Fokker E.1 with synchonizer gear €" because it was the first fighter.

Friendly_flyer
10-31-2005, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Do they just pick the last mark of an aircraft type to give the gong to?

They picked the US-Marine version because (according to the show) the Marines version was made to look more menacing, thus scoring higher on the "Fear" factor. I do believe that how high the plane scores on the fear-factor depends on how much it's on your tail, guns ablaze.

Isn't the USM-version primarily a ground ponder?

Doug_Thompson
10-31-2005, 02:26 PM
Yes, it is a ground-pounder and it's deadly €" to pilots. There were so many accidents with the U.S. version, they considered grounding the plane.

harryklein66
10-31-2005, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
because it was the first fighter.

Wrong ! :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/harryklein/firstfighters.jpg

BaronUnderpants
10-31-2005, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
Yes, it is a ground-pounder and it's deadly €" to pilots. There were so many accidents with the U.S. version, they considered grounding the plane.

Propably not 100% accurate now, but.

When Us version first became operational it was conidered that helicopter pilots was the best choise for the Harrier ( since it hovered like a helo ) That didnt work out and there where a lot of accidents so they dicided that only top gun pilots where to fly it, and accidents droped. After some time they in there infenant wisdome figured " well, no accidents so the plane has to be crasch proof, lets give every noob rookie pilot a Harrier of their own " and the accidents sky rocketed as a result.

Hence only top gun pilots flies the Harrier theese days.

P.S. Not sure about the middle part here ( rookie pilot ) but the Helicopter pilot thing at the start of Harrier service im pretty sure of. as well as the Top Gun pilot part.

Doug_Thompson
10-31-2005, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by harryklein66:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
because it was the first fighter.

Wrong ! :

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By that definition, the first plane that had a pilot who fired his pistol at another plane was the first fighter.

Garros' Morane is famous for being the inspiration for the Fokker, but the deflectors were a dangerous field improvisation.

BTW, a French manufacturer successfully sued Fokker for violating his patent for interrupter gear. He won a court case against Fokker, but had to wait until the war was over. Fokker refused to pay and, since Fokker had moved to the Netherlands by the time, he was able to ignore the verdict as the Dutch government apparently refused to take action.

Doug_Thompson
10-31-2005, 03:48 PM
Not to belabor the topic, but ...

The Moranes were invented as racing planes, I believe €" and Fokker's E.1 was an unlicensed copy of that plane, IIRC.

So, harryklein66 may have a point here. The "first fighter" is a Morane €" whether it was French or Fokker's rip-off.

harryklein66
10-31-2005, 06:40 PM
you're right the Type N was at first a race aircraft (inspired by an other race aircraft, the "monocoque" Deperdussin that bring the speed world record to ~203km/h in 1913 )
and was equiped with a MG that shoot through the propeller, nearly at the same time as the Type L.

As for the Fokker, it is more "inspired" of the
M.S.Type H.

But there is an aircraft older than the Morane Types, and the Fokker E,
that I consider as the first fighter,(even if it never fight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).
It's a 1911 Blériot-11.
It was equiped with a 37mm barrel cannon that shoot through the propeller axis, and it was successfully tested in flight
(but not on the ground, the cannon recoil wrecked the aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

73GIAP_Milan
11-01-2005, 04:32 AM
That whole discoverychannel program is utter BS if you'd ask me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif Comparing apples with pears. There are far better planes glaringly missing from that ultimate top 10 list and a few are not even worth it to be mentioned in it.

Comparing a 1941 or 1942 Spitfire with a 1944 Mustang, and as mentioned before, what does an F117 stealth in the list?..

That whole program is 1 big joke, nothing more then a simple excuse to make some odd list based on the findings of just a few people who obviously call themselves experts (then why the F117???) and to make a series with some spectacular footage.
Can't make anymore of it..Highly spectacular but low value..

Deedsundone
11-01-2005, 10:03 AM
The show I saw didn´t have any F117 in it but the F22 Raptor.Came last becuse it cost to much...whatever. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BaronUnderpants
11-01-2005, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
The show I saw didn´t have any F117 in it but the F22 Raptor.Came last becuse it cost to much...whatever. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And have no service record what so ever......kind of important if u gonna name a plane "Best fighter of all time".

Since its the newest ac to see service any where in the world id be kind of suprised and dissepointed if it wasnt better then say F4 Phantom or Sopwith Camel.

BTW. A seriouse note: The prize tag of one F22 Raptor is an insult Not only to US tax payers but to every living soul who has to eat garbage to survive one more day........but thats just me

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2005, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by 73GIAP_Milan:

Comparing a 1941 or 1942 Spitfire with a 1944 Mustang, .

Well if you ever catch the show, you will see that the Spit would have been #1, but because it lacked the ability to escort bombers all the way to Berlin and back the P-51 won.

BaronUnderpants
11-02-2005, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Skunk241981:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 73GIAP_Milan:

Comparing a 1941 or 1942 Spitfire with a 1944 Mustang, .

Well if you ever catch the show, you will see that the Spit would have been #1, but because it lacked the ability to escort bombers all the way to Berlin and back the P-51 won. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Spit does everything better than the P-51, exept escorting bombers to and from Berlin.

Only natural that P-51 takes the first place because of that one thing......only natural http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif