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View Full Version : Who will cough up cash ?



mynameisroland
08-12-2005, 04:49 PM

p1ngu666
08-12-2005, 04:54 PM
with pay to play, u do get better service, and u tend toget one or a few server with lots of ppl on.

p2p works for role playing games, but wouldnt work for cs, q3 and how pf is now...

think the likely intention would be to run something like VEF VOW etc, but run by 1c and u pay a small fee..

danjama
08-12-2005, 04:58 PM
thats BS, i aint payin to play online, if thats the way it will be, im stayin with what we have now (PF4.01m) online, i know there will always be people playin that online caus its huge, and caus it will be free. I dont wanna pay hundreds for hardware and software only to be ripped off for some crappy organised online affair.... no thankyou 1C

J_Weaver
08-12-2005, 05:09 PM
I'm not interested enough in online play to pay for it.

MEGILE
08-12-2005, 05:11 PM
If BoB is like PF? no way

Taylortony
08-12-2005, 05:14 PM
nope...erm nope and nope, would doubt i would spend my time skinning a game that i had to pay to use on line either....

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 05:20 PM
I will not pay to play any game online. Does not really matter about game title.

I will buy BoB and play it exclusively offline if that is the case.

SeaNorris
08-12-2005, 05:24 PM
Erm...... No

jarink
08-12-2005, 05:30 PM
I voted no mainly because I don't play online. Having to pay for it would be more of a disincentive.

The one case that I would make for a pay-to-play model is that continued online subscriptions would help justify continued development of the game.

JG7_Rall
08-12-2005, 05:37 PM
Wow, you guys orgasm over every little thing here.

Oleg mentioned this ONCE as a POSSIBILITY. Calm the h3ll down and get away from your computer for a little while.

LStarosta
08-12-2005, 05:38 PM
WFT NEXT THING OLEG WILL WNAT IS MY FIRSTBORNE CHILDD WTF!!!! H4X!

MEGILE
08-12-2005, 05:40 PM
You had a kid?
Get that d00d playing CS.. he will be 1337, like me.

SeaNorris
08-12-2005, 06:05 PM
OH NO!!! Oleg wants Megile to pay him for mowing the Russian lawn.

Monty_Thrud
08-12-2005, 06:21 PM
I pay nearly 30 a month on DSL...i spent a few thou on a new PC just for IL2... AFAIC noway for online...i'll buy it if theres single player...but not for online P2P

3.JG51_BigBear
08-12-2005, 06:34 PM
I voted no but it would really depend on what we get. If its the same buggy stuff we get now with third party material and inconsistant flight models, damage models, and AI behavior then absolutely not. If Oleg decides to drop some money on a larger development team and he starts producting quality "in-house" addons with aircraft developed by him and his team with thoroughly tested patches then I'm there. Even if its in between the two I wouldn't pay. The continued support this game has gotten is great and everything but some times I think its done more harm than good and having a steady source of cash coming in from an aging game may give the developers the confidence to continue to develop an obsolete engine when its really time to move on (what's happening now but worse).

VW-IceFire
08-12-2005, 06:37 PM
I voted no. Some months I play constantly...some months I play almost not at all. I don't want to pay for when I'm not using it...thus I'd rather pay $100 upfront and use it for the next 3 years.

And BoB can cost $100 Canadian for all I care...provided that its good and some of that $100 goes to supporting addon patches like Battle of France and Battle of Poland addons. I'm willing to pay for the "free stuff later" and I firmly believe in you get what you pay for. But I'm not willing to keep shelling out cash all the time. What if all games were like that? I could afford to play only one or two games a year...instead of buying maybe 6 or 8 and playing them whenever I wanted to ...maybe even years later (I still open up old games - install them and play them).

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 06:41 PM
Count me in, I'll pay up.

But, it depends NOT on Price, but Oleg's Programming features and Online War battlefield environment content. For me to Pay, Oleg must...

(1) Simulate aspects of military culture -- tell Online gamers how to play Online (follow orders, 6 month ban simulating military Court Martial, etc...).

(2) Offline AI fully used in the Online War, to make up for any lack of human players in either bombers or fighters.

(3) Online War must be a Dynamic Campaign. However, Oleg posted at sukhoi.ru that he DOES NOT LIKE Dynamic Campaigns -- says they show no historical knowledge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif (*). Taken logically, this means that Oleg's BoB Online War will have very strange happenings. For example, suppose Luftwaffe side is using better tactics than historically used, and *should* begin to win dominance over the RAF side over the next missions. But, Oleg's Historical Correctness will take out Luftwaffe planes at the historical rate--so Luftwaffe side loses no matter what they do. I really doubt this would be the case, but its an example of how Oleg must re-evaluate the Dynamic Campaign. We shall see.

For those who (claim) won't pay, Oleg will probably releace a *free* BoB Online dogfight fps shooter version...ie...what we have today. And, it should be FREE !!

* Footnote
I say Dynamic Campaigns show more historical knowledge than Static "historical" campaigns, since player interest in a Dynamic Campaign comes from deep historical knowledge.

carguy_
08-12-2005, 06:47 PM
Not unless I cr@p with cash in the future.

Bearcat99
08-12-2005, 07:20 PM
That is the only thing that will keep me from buying BoB. I refuse to pay any more than I do.... the purchase price of the product and my ISP. Aside from the upgrades of course.

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 07:27 PM
Bear, long ago you posted you would buy PONG if 1C/Maddox made it. By this, I assume you meant that you would buy anything Maddox made, including with any method of payment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It depends on what Oleg offers in the package. Knowing Oleg, it just might be worth it. Not sure, but its possible. Think about it.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 07:31 PM
Oh c'mon LEXX we will all buy it assuming that it isn't exclusively ONLINE game (and pay to play).

Majority of the guys have clearly shown what do they think of "pay to play" concept. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If they provide single player offline, I will buy the game and play offline only.

And sometimes during play, I will remember the good old FB days. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 07:35 PM
mmm, Bear, there's another angle I am coming from -- FB/PF and now StrikeFighters are the ONLY computer games I play. That makes two games total. No, three games, the 3rd is original Master of Orion from 1993 which I still fire up, from time to time. That's it. I can see paying a small monthly fee for one (1) game, as at most I play 2 regularly, instead of PAYING far more money in large numbers of short lived games. I am sure many here go through 5+ games in a year, exhausting them all (except FB/PF of course), and end up paying more than Oleg's BoB would charge in one year.

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 07:50 PM
It should be everything -- Offline static and dynamic campaigns, publisher pay-play Online War, and free Online dogfight. Oleg has admitted that he will yield to demands for Offline dynamic campaigns.

Atomic_Marten::
Majority of the guys have clearly shown what do they think of "pay to play" concept.
The "guys" are not the people Oleg should be programming for. Why?

Combat flight sims are a Niche market, and if the market is to grow (ie...if Oleg is to grow) -- especially the even smaller Online community -- the number of new customers will -- by definition -- far exceed the current number of "guys." Thus, we ignore the "guys."

The successful Developer ignores what the "guys" want and offers what they will like. <span class="ev_code_yellow">Example</span>:: If Oleg created flight sims for what "the guys" wanted, Oleg's first sim would have been 1944 Western Europe. Yes? No?

If Oleg does not go Pay-Play, he will have no motivation to provide anything other than arcade Online dogfight game. But, at least it will be FREE !! Depending on Offline sales paying for Online programming worked for FB/PF because Oleg's ONLY competition was Microsoft's CFS3 store-shelf marketing power.

Microsoft is not who the competition is anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Microsoft is gone. We are about to enter an era of fantastic combat flight sims.

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 08:00 PM
But...I may be wrong. If Oleg desires to create the needed tools for independent servers to create good Online Wars without charging a monthly fee, this could work. I have ignored this possibility.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 08:06 PM
Now... not that I disagree with you completely.

Just... it would be good to see what are the percentages of online/offline players for the most popular games.(those orientated totally online like WoWarcraft and offlline are excluded due to obvious reasons), or at least percentage of players which really cares about this issue.

If Oleg's team decides that it would be better to make pay to play game let it be. I could not care less. As long as they provide offline campaign/single player.

If you ask me I guess that would be enough for offline (majority?). But I'm afraid that BoB will never be online game for such masses like FB if the p2p becomes BoB's reality.

It really is all down to financial side for Maddox Games -- what is better? Attract less players with p2p or attract more with free online?

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
But...I may be wrong. If Oleg desires to create the needed tools for independent servers to create good Online Wars without charging a monthly fee, this could work. I have ignored this possibility.

I like the way you think. That way you could attract possibly both communities pure offliners/onliners and the rest of them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif All of them interested in that game! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 08:13 PM
Ya, I see what you are saying. Well I'm an Offliner myself, and have no interest in Online unless it becomes brutally structured and heavily focused on behavior modification ... kinda like boot camp (* this may never be possible in PC sims *). Pay-Play Online War may (or may not) allow the creation of this air warfare environment. I dunno.

But to create FREE <span class="ev_code_yellow">Online</span> with no Pay-Play, Oleg must still rely on Offline sales to cover the entire Online programming. One would think Onliners would not want Offliners to be paying for their product. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif They may consider paying it themselves. Because they are such small number, they must naturally pay more, a little each month. One solution is to reduce the number of games they play. Buying and playing out 4 PC games in one year costs more than BoB will charge in one year. It depends on how much we like our game.

LEXX_Luthor
08-12-2005, 08:22 PM
** I typed Offline instead of Online. That didn't make sense. Sorry.

Fehler
08-12-2005, 11:49 PM
Turning BoB into a MMORPG type style would be extremely difficult, and there are no signs of getting away from lag issues already in place.

That said, servers with hundres or thousands of players on at a time would yield terrible game play, unless of course, 1C has magically changed the way packets of data are transmitted. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now, add in the fact that BoB will supposedly be even more detailed FM and DM wise, I cannot see how a MMORPG style could ever suit BoB.

Thus, I would have to vote "No" to pay to play.

However, the MMORPG games that I have played in the past are extremely enjoyable. And I have payed as I played in the past. It is not all that costly if you can give up the value of two soft drinks a month...

But I dont see how BoB can be made like this without seriously degrading gun hit/damage modeling.

BUT... If BoB models stamina, I will pay just to aggrivate Lexx... hehe

Atomic_Marten
08-13-2005, 06:12 AM
Some good points there Fehler. TBH I have never thought of lag... but it is clear that is one great 'obstacle'. You are right; to make a good p2p game, online playing must be enjoyable for all users.

Also it really bothers me (as a programming nebie) why FB has so much lag, and WoW does not? (I don't play WoW but I figured if they p2p that p2p experience must be good otherwise it wouldn't get so much audience http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

SeaNorris
08-13-2005, 07:14 AM
I myself, hardly used to use online, and when I use it in a bulk, its very rare, so I want a quick 10 minute game, I have to pay for it?

So let me see:

1.) You buy BoB which will be either 30/40 here
2.) THEN pay for the online play
3.) THEN pay for your internet anyway

Next we'll have HyperLobby charging us just for using it.

F19_Ob
08-13-2005, 12:10 PM
paying to play is out of the question for me because it's an undesireable way of development wich may become ugly, although I very much wish oleg and the dev-team success with their projects.
Paying for expansionpacks is axeptable though and a better way to get money.

Paying to play I belive causes people even more to demand improvements and immediately. Imagine the climate at the forum boards.


well, what I think

mynameisroland
08-13-2005, 12:27 PM
Good Idea about the Dynamic campaign side of things. I hadnt thought about Lag issues either but by the time BoB comes out we will all be playing on quad 5 gig/hz comps with 500 gig/sec connections so there shouldnt be any issues

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-13-2005, 06:43 PM
SeaNorris::
I myself, hardly used to use online, and when I use it in a bulk, its very rare, so I want a quick 10 minute game, I have to pay for it?

So let me see:

1.) You buy BoB which will be either 30/40 here
2.) THEN pay for the online play
3.) THEN pay for your internet anyway
Oleg should releace a FREE BoB Online dogfight server version. BoB Online will have exactly what FB/PF offers now, but with the addition of a highly structured Online War where...for example...Oleg posted here that Squad and possibly Group commanders will determine ammo belt loadout for the players under their command (this was in the MG151 thread -- the big one I think). I am guessing that we pay extra for programming features like this. The Online War is extra for those looking and willing to pay more for a more immersive environment. Or, this is my Theory (and hope) based upon what I have read.

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 06:57 PM
I've recently come into a large sum of money from a dead uncle. I've already discussed this with Oleg, and I will be paying the fees for all on-line players to continue with the sim in Hyperlobby. It should only cost me roughly 1.3 million, so no big deal. I'm happy to do it.

Please continue enjoying your free sim.

LEXX_Luthor
08-13-2005, 07:10 PM
Good Thinking CRASH!

Dogfighter players pay DOUBLE monthly fee - 25.98$ - to pay the Bomber players' monthly fees. That could increase the number of bomber players.

Awsum idea. Thanks~

Bearcat99
08-13-2005, 09:35 PM
If I have to pay to play.. other than the cost of the sim and my ISP then I wont be flying it online. I doubt that it will be like that though. I dont think Oleg would make it pay to play. If it had good offline action... which to me would be at least as good as FB4.xx, preferably etter.... then I will buy it and fly it offline.

Xiolablu3
08-14-2005, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by 3.JG51_BigBear:
I voted no but it would really depend on what we get. If its the same buggy stuff we get now with third party material and inconsistant flight models, damage models, and AI behavior then absolutely not. If Oleg decides to drop some money on a larger development team and he starts producting quality "in-house" addons with aircraft developed by him and his team with thoroughly tested patches then I'm there. Even if its in between the two I wouldn't pay. The continued support this game has gotten is great and everything but some times I think its done more harm than good and having a steady source of cash coming in from an aging game may give the developers the confidence to continue to develop an obsolete engine when its really time to move on (what's happening now but worse).

Come on man, the reason this game is so good is BECAUSE it doesnt have a massive development team out to make a lot of dosh from it.

Its the best FS on the market because Oleg is so devoted to WW2 aircraft.

Anyone who cant see that is daft. If he wanted to make pots of money he would go over to the consoles (where games are BIG business)like a shot and we would have something akin to Crimson Skies/Wings Of War.

Can you not see that Oleg is a massive asset to PC simming not to be ****ged off at every oportunity like many people here seem to think.

EURO_Snoopy
08-14-2005, 01:57 AM
Oleg's original statement 26/12/04: (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=9531076652&r=1751039652#1751039652)


As well as we like to go by two branches - Single + online with linmited online features and only online sim branch simultaniosly, where on dedicated server will be new events and wars regulating by developer/publisher. It is jut an idea for you in which way we directed now. Not all may happen, but it is ideal thing for which we force all our resources in future, where you will be able to control not only the planes.


If you read it carefully you will see there is nothing to get in knots about

LW_lcarp
08-14-2005, 02:35 AM
Payed when i bought the game no way ill pay to play it online.

VFA-25_Peckens
08-14-2005, 02:42 AM
p2p is just stupid, but it has an advantage cause of the better support and constant patches

Atomic_Marten
08-14-2005, 03:17 AM
Snoopy I particularly like "...where you will be able to control not only the planes." part there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EURO_Snoopy
08-14-2005, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Snoopy I particularly like "...where you will be able to control not only the planes." part there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

More hints at maybes (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/9741018052/r/3081089052#3081089052)

LEXX_Luthor
08-14-2005, 04:29 AM
In that "email from Oleg" thread, Oleg was claimed to say that we would get free BoB version in addition to pay version. If true, common sense says the pay version will have features Oleg and Publisher hope attract paying customers. From 3rd page of that sukhoi.ru thread, some parts [http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif] were translated by crazyivan...

"crazyivan" Oleg::

I would rather make online game then both, this is 100 times easier! But then, you will have to pay per play every month.


"babelfish" Oleg::
4 with the pleasure would make only online game... this 100 times simpler! But then all must for this pay once per month.

Most likely we in the course of time nevertheless at this will arrive. But yet not time.


(and from the LEBillfish thread)...

"island" Oleg::
Ladies, Be Sure! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
For certain, men simmers start worry now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-14-2005, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
Snoopy I particularly like "...where you will be able to control not only the planes." part there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

More hints at maybes (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/9741018052/r/3081089052#3081089052) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for link... I apparently missed that.