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crucislancer
04-21-2008, 10:59 AM
My experiences with Yaks is really limited, particularly the Yak-1, but all models are giving me some grief. Does anyone have any tips?

F16_Neo
04-21-2008, 11:28 AM
Some conclusions after some early Yak airtime...

1B, 7B & 9 have roughly the same performance. They can compete with 109F2/4 in turnrate and are nearly as fast down low.
1 and 7A are quite a bit worse, and might be a better match to the Emils.
All planes turn best with the ball centered, but in the Yaks it is fundamental if you don't want to flip out. A little bit of nose-up trim helps in fast turns.
All early Yaks are worse climbers and divers relative to their contemporary 109's, and slower at least on high altitude.
Also, ammo is very limited in the Yak, but otoh armament is in the nose so I find it quite easy to get hits.

DKoor
04-21-2008, 12:01 PM
Yak-9 in game is outstanding fighter for its time-frame.
You can fight with FW-190s and Bf-109s with no prob.

Once we set up 1vs1 FW-190A4 vs Yak-9 match on realistic settings.
Yak-9 won in 9/10 matches.
Players involved were all veterans.

Yaks generally speaking are good fighters.

Lavochkins are even better in game.

Big drawback with Yak in most variants is lack of fuel gauge... so you must really watch your flight time. Only Yak-3 and Yak-9U(T) have gauges in game.
Another (albeit smaller) deficiency with for instance Yak-9 is small ammo supply; while cannon ammo is somewhat satisfactory, bullet supply is not. 120 shells is ok, you can down few fighters with some luck, but 200mg rounds firing from one gun is not sufficient.

crucislancer
04-21-2008, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by F16_Neo:
All early Yaks are worse climbers and divers relative to their contemporary 109's, and slower at least on high altitude.
Also, ammo is very limited in the Yak, but otoh armament is in the nose so I find it quite easy to get hits.

That explains quite a bit right there. I set up QMB with my flight Yak-1, and the enemy in 109F-2s. I didn't do so well. I got one, but I drained my ammo trying to hose down another that was climbing. I'm usually pretty good with nose armament, but I couldn't shoot my way out of a paper bag with the Yak-1.



Originally posted by DKoor:
Yak-9 in game is outstanding fighter for its time-frame.
You can fight with FW-190s and Bf-109s with no prob.

Once we set up 1vs1 FW-190A4 vs Yak-9 match on realistic settings.
Yak-9 won in 9/10 matches.
Players involved were all veterans.

Yaks generally speaking are good fighters.

Lavochkins are even better in game.

Big drawback with Yak in most variants is lack of fuel gauge... so you must really watch your flight time. Only Yak-3 and Yak-9U(T) have gauges in game.
Another (albeit smaller) deficiency with for instance Yak-9 is small ammo supply; while cannon ammo is somewhat satisfactory, bullet supply is not. 120 shells is ok, you can down few fighters with some luck, but 200mg rounds firing from one gun is not sufficient.

The last time I fooled with the Yak-9 was about a year ago in the original IL-2. I'll have to give that bird a whirl tonight. I never noticed that about the fuel gauge, but I'll keep that in mind.

Lot's of food for thought here. Thanks guys!

TinyTim
04-21-2008, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Once we set up 1vs1 FW-190A4 vs Yak-9 match on realistic settings.
Yak-9 won in 9/10 matches.
Players involved were all veterans.


I wonder what the result would be if they fought 4 vs 4. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nevertheless, I agree Yaks are outstanding and I even prefer them over contemporary Las, due to their general better altitude performance (or is it just me about this?) and higher break up speed allowing you to pursuit fleeing/diving german "heroes" a little bit longer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TinyTim
04-21-2008, 01:15 PM
Btw, check this (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4301046655?r=4301046655#4301046655) thread I started a year or so ago, trying to learn how to fly Yaks more efficiently. Some good info in it.

crucislancer
04-21-2008, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
....and higher break up speed allowing you to pursuit fleeing/diving german "heroes" a little bit longer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ugh, I learned that lesson the hard way yesterday on UKded2, diving on a German fighter while in a La-5FN from 5000 meters. The wings came off and the plane caught fire. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

crucislancer
04-21-2008, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
Btw, check this (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/4301046655?r=4301046655#4301046655) thread I started a year or so ago, trying to learn how to fly Yaks more efficiently. Some good info in it.

Awesome. I see tons of good info there. Thanks!

DKoor
04-21-2008, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Once we set up 1vs1 FW-190A4 vs Yak-9 match on realistic settings.
Yak-9 won in 9/10 matches.
Players involved were all veterans.


I wonder what the result would be if they fought 4 vs 4. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>+1
My money is on FW-190 with such setup.


Nevertheless, I agree Yaks are outstanding and I even prefer them over contemporary Las, due to their general better altitude performance (or is it just me about this?) +1 Yaks generally have serious 1942 mid-alt advantage over Lavochkins.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2ib0tqw.png
Unfortunately, we don't have many LA variants in comparison to Yak... basically three conventional variants (LA-5, LA-5F, LA-7), since LA-5FN as such exists only in IL2 game. LA-5FN from real world was seriously different aircraft and cannot be compared.

VW-IceFire
04-21-2008, 04:30 PM
What do you mean about the La-5FN? Its been my understanding that the La-5FN, as represented (according to Oleg waaay back), is a late 1944 example that is basically one step away from the La-7. The La-5F should be used by mission builders (with an eye for balance) in 1943-1944 scenarios unless they are very late in the year in which case the La-5FN could be used. It would be nice to see a La-5FN, 1943 and a La-5FN, 1944 (I'm aware that at present it does say 1943 on the date). In anycase, that does level the playing field with the Yak-9 and 9D models which are common in this time period.

Talking about the Yak specifically it does take some work to master the plane but its a viable alternative to all of the Lavochkins flying about. Low ammo load and a torquey engine that wants to pull you over are the down sides. The upside is that the Yak-9 series, Yak-1B, and Yak-3 are very responsive fighters with a good turn, quick roll rate at combat speeds and they can take a fair bit of punishment in the rear fuselage and keep in the air (albeit with great difficulty). Hits to the wing are very bad as they will break or cause severe handling problems. I find the earlier Yak-9s are good against 109F and the earlier G series and can compete with unwary FW190A series. Its not superior to its German counterparts but its close enough and has a great turn so you can leverage those advantages.

The Yak-9U is a big step up as it is nearly as agile as the earlier versions but its VERY fast and can outpace all but the fastest German fighters. The Yak-9UT adds some needed punch to the armament in the form of a pair of 20mm cannons and one 37mm cannon all arranged in the nose.

The favourite online is the Yak-3P with 3x20mm cannon and great handling. I'd actually suggest that you learn on the Yak-3 (with the standard armament) or the Yak-1B and then move through the rest of the lineup.

DKoor
04-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
What do you mean about the La-5FN? Game plane version, doesn't resemble LA-5 production variants.
I'll list most interesting ones;

RL LA-5FN 1943 production variant (Gor'kiy plant);
573km/h @ SL
620km/h @ 6150m

RL LA-5 Dooblyor (1943) - <sub>this one listed only because it matches in game LA-5FN perf. to some extent</sub>;
595km/h @ SL
648km/h @ 6300m

RL LA-5 etalon (standard setter for 1944)
597km/h @ SL
680km/h @ 6000m

In game LA-5FN v4.08
590km/h @ SL
646km/h @ 6000m* (* - listed by IL-2 Compare as best speed altitude)

In game LA-5FN data from IL-2 Compare v4.071
580km/h @ SL
639km/h @ 6000m


Its been my understanding that the La-5FN, as represented (according to Oleg waaay back), is a late 1944 example that is basically one step away from the La-7. That's simply wrong.

edit*

VW-IceFire
04-21-2008, 06:05 PM
So the La-5FN is more of a frankestine performance wise like the Spitfire Vb is?

DKoor
04-21-2008, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
So the La-5FN is more of a frankestine performance wise like the Spitfire Vb is? Hm. Kinda, but weird...

There are several LA-5 variants (regardless of powerplant they used etc.), those I posted above are from Yefim Gordon's book about piston engined Lavochkins. He specifically listed this 10 LA-5 variants (performance) and only LA-5 Dooblyor (1943) somewhat matches our LA-5FN.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7219/la5nw9.th.png (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=la5nw9.png)
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6804/la711rs1.th.jpg (http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=la711rs1.jpg)

DKoor
04-21-2008, 06:44 PM
Test results obtained by second prototype (Dooblyor) were much wanted and they were ordered into production, but encountered problems in obtaining that performance...
IMO if we're to get a 1943 LA-5FN it would be logical that we get a LA-5FN that was produced at Gor'kiy plant at autumn 1943 (I posted 1943 production series figures above)...
IceFire I'll post some more interesting parts about LA-5FN from that book later http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

beNdeR__
04-21-2008, 08:39 PM
Don't have any experience with the Yaks online, but I've been playing the USSR "fighter" campaign (non leningrad) for a few weeks now,primarily using Yaks. The Yak-1 I found pretty tough to use just because the acceleration and climb rate were just so bad that the 109s just extend away from you. 109Fs are definitely greater threats then Emils, but if you can catch them in a turn they are pretty easy to take down. The Yak-1B and Yak-9 are much better because they accelerate so much quicker. So far I have found the Yak-9 to be a solid plane, and more then a match for the 109Fs, G-2s and MC202s that I've been up against. The 9 can even almost keep up with them in a shallow dive.

The main issue with the Yaks are the guns and ammunition. The 1B and 9 have only like 10 seconds of firing with the machine gun and cannon, so you really can't take pot shots. Fighters are okay to take down, but bombers can be more of a challenge since you can't get as much of a relative speed advantage as in a 109 or a 190, and since the armament isn't very strong. After playing the German campaigns and using the 109s and 190s, the ShVAK seems to me like a total peashooter compared to the 151/20, or is this just me?

VW-IceFire
04-21-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Test results obtained by second prototype (Dooblyor) were much wanted and they were ordered into production, but encountered problems in obtaining that performance...
IMO if we're to get a 1943 LA-5FN it would be logical that we get a LA-5FN that was produced at Gor'kiy plant at autumn 1943 (I posted 1943 production series figures above)...
IceFire I'll post some more interesting parts about LA-5FN from that book later http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
Thanks! Excellent information actually...I had never seen any of these performance figures before. Quite revealing.

So I wonder if we have the odd one out in that list of options. Too bad actually...would have be nice to maybe have two variations to match the dates. I really like when they do that.

na85
04-21-2008, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by beNdeR__:
Don't have any experience with the Yaks online, but I've been playing the USSR "fighter" campaign (non leningrad) for a few weeks now,primarily using Yaks. The Yak-1 I found pretty tough to use just because the acceleration and climb rate were just so bad that the 109s just extend away from you. 109Fs are definitely greater threats then Emils, but if you can catch them in a turn they are pretty easy to take down. The Yak-1B and Yak-9 are much better because they accelerate so much quicker. So far I have found the Yak-9 to be a solid plane, and more then a match for the 109Fs, G-2s and MC202s that I've been up against. The 9 can even almost keep up with them in a shallow dive.

The main issue with the Yaks are the guns and ammunition. The 1B and 9 have only like 10 seconds of firing with the machine gun and cannon, so you really can't take pot shots. Fighters are okay to take down, but bombers can be more of a challenge since you can't get as much of a relative speed advantage as in a 109 or a 190, and since the armament isn't very strong. After playing the German campaigns and using the 109s and 190s, the ShVAK seems to me like a total peashooter compared to the 151/20, or is this just me?

I've only recently started putting a lot of time into learning the yak series, but regarding your statement on the guns I'd have to say that the shvak is equally as potent (if not more so) than the 151/20. What it came down to for me was unlearning all the habits I'd picked up flying 109's and 190's. The russian weapons have a higher muzzle velocity and the trajectories aren't quite the same.

VW-IceFire
04-21-2008, 10:03 PM
ShVAK 20mm is just a bit behind the MG151/20 and Hispano in most of the in-game tests that have been done. Its a solid third place. Flat trajectory and good fire rate mean its a good cannon when it comes to knocking out the enemy. But you cannot spray it in a Yak. Get in close...line up the shot and give them a burst. The one cannon is enough.

I'd also save up the UBS 12.7mm machine gun for when the cannon runs out. The UBS is powerful in its own right and will do nasty things to engines and fuel tanks.

DKoor
04-22-2008, 06:29 AM
I agree on ShVAK power... few days ago I played on Spits vs Bf-109s and shot down two Bf-109s in Yak-9, their wings clipped after few hits. I damaged third one but run out of cannon ammo (I still had some MG ammo) and I was chewing him, but unfortunately I lost sight of him during maneuvering and we colided somehow http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif .
FW-190s are tougher breed tho. But still their wings are very vulnerable and fighter is practically totally unsuitable for combat after few cannon hits, it behaves very violently and in uncontrollable manner.
Main shortcoming with ShVAK on early/mid series Yaks is number of shells IMO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

DKoor
04-22-2008, 06:33 AM
Here is LA-5FN story;
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3840/dsc01236tl1.th.png (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01236tl1.png)
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1565/dsc01237sl7.th.png (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01237sl7.png)
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1807/dsc01238my2.th.png (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01238my2.png)

crucislancer
04-22-2008, 02:56 PM
I messed with the Yak-1, Yak-3, and Yak-9 last night in the QMB, all the advice I've seen so far has really made a difference for me. I've still got a long way to go before I feel comfortable, but I'll get there.

I noticed that the Yaks, and to a lesser extent the La-5/7 seem to be unpopular, for the most part. There are very few, if any, offline campaigns for these planes, and when on a DF server that has a VVS plane set I see a lot of folks go for lend-lease aircraft rather then the home-grown ones, unless the plane set is specifically limited to VVS planes.

VW-IceFire
04-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Really? I find there are allot of La-7s flying around if they are available. Its shifted somewhat to the Spitfire IX since that was made available but I still see allot of them. Yaks is another story....the Yak-3P is somewhat popular in some areas but aside from that nobody except for a few fly the Yaks on any regular basis.

There are a few really skilled Yak pilots out there too. Can really work the plane to get the most out of it.

M_Gunz
04-22-2008, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by na85:
The russian weapons have a higher muzzle velocity and the trajectories aren't quite the same.

Neither trajectory nor timing from anything beyond very close range. And timing of shots is
very critical in all but the straight six angle and something best trained to "feel".

It's another example of how jumping from plane to plane ensures mediocre skills at best, not
that what _You_ wrote says you jump from plane to plane mind!

crucislancer
04-22-2008, 03:53 PM
Bear in mind that my observation is based on an average of 4 hours a week online, mainly on the weekends, and up until a couple of weekends ago flying on Skies of Valor. I've been flying on UKDed2 for the past couple of weeks, but missions with VVS plane sets haven't been coming my way much, except for this past Sunday, when I flew the Yak-1 for a few minutes then later a La-5FN.

Yeah, I'll see more La-5s or La-7s in the mix, but they still seem to be outweighed by Spits, if available. Not that I'm complaining, I don't do too bad in a Spitfire. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
04-22-2008, 04:09 PM
On UK2 I think the ratio is skewed in favour of the west/pacific right now. There are a few new east front maps in the pipeline that should restore the balance...might be off on that but I think that was the case a little while ago. So that may explain the lack of VVS aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Skies of Honour and Valour is another odd one where the Russian types show up less often even when available. I do have to admit. You will still see a fair number of La-7s around when available.

Wildnoob
04-22-2008, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Once we set up 1vs1 FW-190A4 vs Yak-9 match on realistic settings.
Yak-9 won in 9/10 matches.
Players involved were all veterans.

I usually use the FW-190, especially on the eastern front.

like the P-51 and other more heavy, but with a powerful engine like the FW-190, it it's possible to outrun many early and mid war figthers. the FW-190 main tactic is fire and break away. especially in group, the FW-190 can be very, very dangeors using this tactic.

against all Soviet figthers, I will try spot then first, after that I will turn in direction to him to try make a firing pass. if I hit the enemy or not, I will fly away, and only come back after I have sure nobody is pursuiting me.

the FW-190 pilot's run or stay trying to maneuver with the YAK ?

I like to see air warfare with tactical view, I don't like to say this kind of afirmation, but to tell the truth, I don't think a FW-190 will have many chances against a YAK if his pilot is trying to maneuver with him.

I just don't know if the FW-190 can outun the YAK-9 from the early series, against the YAK-9U I think he cannot. the FW-190 against the LA-5 1942 model can outrun it, LA-5FN cannot. I just don't know about the F version.

crucislancer
04-22-2008, 04:15 PM
Cool. Hopefully the map rotation on UKded2 will favor me getting some stick time in the Yak, and the La-5 or La-7 as well.

Phil_K
04-22-2008, 04:35 PM
Yaks are definitely planes that you have to grow into. One of the things I find is that they need constant attention to trim.

Also, if you get hit just once, you've pretty much had it, even if the hit isn't fatal, because it kills the plane's one trump card - it's manouevrability. Therefore I recommend constant movement during combat. Even if you aren't chasing or being chased, keep in gentle turns.

Finally, using the guns is just a matter of acquiring the knack of hitting in short bursts in fast manouevres - it's difficult if you're used to other planes, but you soon pick it up with experience....

TinyTim
04-23-2008, 01:14 AM
Agreed Phil_K. Yaks handling suffers badly after taking minor damage, yet I find its structural strength quite good. Similar in a way to Fw190. Can be crippled by a single bullet, but needs a lot of ammo to actually finnish it.

My experience with guns is, that if you wanna learn how to shoot really good, you should fly Yaks primarily for some time. This plane forces you to be a sniper. I usually use only UBS for long range shots (to try to make the fleeing 190s start jinking and bleeding speed or to cripple them) and only cannon when close to finnish them off. I almost never fire both weapons at the same time. Lack of ammo forces you to use your weapons only when you are absolutely sure you are gonna hit. Nose mounted high accuracy weapons enable you to take extremely long range, single or couple bullets sniper shots.

Shooting in all other planes seems so easy once you master shootng from Yak.

na85
04-23-2008, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
The russian weapons have a higher muzzle velocity and the trajectories aren't quite the same.

Neither trajectory nor timing from anything beyond very close range. And timing of shots is
very critical in all but the straight six angle and something best trained to "feel".

It's another example of how jumping from plane to plane ensures mediocre skills at best, not
that what _You_ wrote says you jump from plane to plane mind! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry... are you agreeing or disagreeing with my point about the trajectories? I might be off my rocker, but I'm pretty sure the trajectories are flatter.

na85
04-23-2008, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:

Also, if you get hit just once, you've pretty much had it, even if the hit isn't fatal, because it kills the plane's one trump card - it's manouevrability.

For sure. Sometimes you're lucky and you'll take the hits in the fuselage, which won't degrade your performance, but as soon as you take one in the wing, head for home.

M_Gunz
04-23-2008, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
The russian weapons have a higher muzzle velocity and the trajectories aren't quite the same.

Neither trajectory nor timing from anything beyond very close range. And timing of shots is
very critical in all but the straight six angle and something best trained to "feel".

It's another example of how jumping from plane to plane ensures mediocre skills at best, not
that what _You_ wrote says you jump from plane to plane mind! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry... are you agreeing or disagreeing with my point about the trajectories? I might be off my rocker, but I'm pretty sure the trajectories are flatter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you entirely.

Those rounds have higher muzzle velocity and mass though I can't say about form factors.
The German rounds often have the lesser mv and mass which is still sufficient.
They have the superior explosives and the only thin wall shells, making up for much.

All these projectiles fall with the same acceleration, gravity, the ones that get to range in
less time have less drop hence flatter trajectories and needing less lead on deflection shots.
We are after all shooting from 3D moving platforms at 3D moving platforms so crossing paths
alone is not enough, esp with very short bursts.

It comes down to a matter of feel when shooting, at least for me. It's like throwing a ball
or throwing stones once you are able to throw consistently, connecting with a moving target
becomes a matter of aim and timing.
Speed is secondary unless it messes with aim and timing.
Changing guns from what you are used to messes with your training.
Changing often means never really having a feel, always needing to shot targets with no relative
motion or wasting shots or always having to be very close.
So it's best to become really good with few types, noting how many planes have mixed guns.

And I added that I do not say that You jump from plane to plane just to be clear I do NOT say
that at all.

But those who do only dull what edge/mastery they might build up.

I look forward to SOW as the IL2 LODs make judging distances and speeds a bit difficult and
that affects my shooting.

csThor
04-23-2008, 05:32 AM
I applaud those who do well in Yaks. I never fly them except when testing stuff offline and I find the whole family to be extremely sensitive to control inputs. The aircraft feel nervous and edgy to me, almost like trying to balance a perfect ball on the tip of a microscopically thin needle. They don't have the smoothness of the 109s or even the rock-solid feel of the LaGGs. I really do better offline in LaGG-3 than in a Yak-1 or Yak-7.

Phil_K
04-23-2008, 05:57 AM
That's funny really, because I think the Bf109 is one of the wobbliest, twitchiest and most unpleasant planes to fly in the whole game.

It's taken me a looooong time to even begin to appreciate it.....

DKoor
04-23-2008, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Once we set up 1vs1 FW-190A4 vs Yak-9 match on realistic settings.
Yak-9 won in 9/10 matches.
Players involved were all veterans.

I usually use the FW-190, especially on the eastern front.

like the P-51 and other more heavy, but with a powerful engine like the FW-190, it it's possible to outrun many early and mid war figthers. the FW-190 main tactic is fire and break away. especially in group, the FW-190 can be very, very dangeors using this tactic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>FW-190 are pretty much limited to hit and run tactics. Mixing it up was never their strong point in this game.


against all Soviet figthers, I will try spot then first, after that I will turn in direction to him to try make a firing pass. if I hit the enemy or not, I will fly away, and only come back after I have sure nobody is pursuiting me. That's something you can't do in 1vs1 server; well you can but perhaps one in a ten times when your enemy lost eye contact with you, and even then he will be aware of your imminent presence.


the FW-190 pilot's run or stay trying to maneuver with the YAK ? Simply - he used everything he's got.
Mostly attacks from above, I would say classic BnZ if I don't know any better.


I like to see air warfare with tactical view, I don't like to say this kind of afirmation, but to tell the truth, I don't think a FW-190 will have many chances against a YAK if his pilot is trying to maneuver with him. True is that he doesn't stand a chance in mixing it up with Yak, but he must maneuver to get into a firing position. This is not a drive by on a unaware opponent; this oppo will do everything to make you lose your E while he gains E in evasion dive.


I just don't know if the FW-190 can outun the YAK-9 from the early series, against the YAK-9U I think he cannot. the FW-190 against the LA-5 1942 model can outrun it, LA-5FN cannot. I just don't know about the F version. Almost as a rule every FW-190 can outrun Yaks... just in that 1942 setup Yak climbs better for his DF needs. So that is what is used heavily in such cases by Yak pilots; also Yak loses less energy in any kind of maneuver while FW-190 loses energy faster.

DKoor
04-23-2008, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
That's funny really, because I think the Bf109 is one of the wobbliest, twitchiest and most unpleasant planes to fly in the whole game.

It's taken me a looooong time to even begin to appreciate it..... For me Bf-109 is much more stable than P-51 or Yak.
Or even a Spitfire.

Perhaps I'm too much used to the Bf-109.

Bf-109 for me has only one downside in game - control lock on high speed.

crucislancer
04-23-2008, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
That's funny really, because I think the Bf109 is one of the wobbliest, twitchiest and most unpleasant planes to fly in the whole game.

It's taken me a looooong time to even begin to appreciate it.....

I used to think that way as well, the 109 does take some getting used to.

I'm that way with the Yaks right now, but it's getting much better. I actually found a offline campaign for a Yak fighter, "Yaks Over Memel" (seems to be the only one!), so I gave the first mission a spin last night.

I got 3 kills and made it back to base in one piece. A lot of the advice I've seen on this thread was really helpful in getting those kills and staying alive.

A couple of things I have to remember: Max dive speed and engine management. I nearly lost it at one point when I dove after a 109. I hit 760 kph and slowly pulled out at that point. Later, as overall fight went higher, I completely forgot that the fuel mixture and supercharger is all manual. Things got better after that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Biggest complaint is the ammo. Even keeping that in mind, I was still amazed when I ran out. I was being as economical as I could with the ammo, the first two kills were really shorts bursts with both MGs and cannon. The 3rd took a couple more. I was working on a 4th when the ammo dried up. Bummer!

Also, I agree with M_Gunz about switching planes. I feel my skills in a certain plane start to degrade if I've moved on to something else for a time. I tried a Corsair in the QMB last night, and pretty much flopped around in it, since I haven't touched it much in a month. Of course, switching planes is par for the course on a lot of the online servers I frequent, and I just can't pass up a good offline campaign just because it's a different plane.

DKoor
04-23-2008, 08:05 AM
With a risk of sounding like a smartarse about changing planes = degrading skill...
I believe that changing planes doesn't alone contribute to all that lose skill (only plane characteristics and gunnery) although they are the only reason for it... with different plane goes different tactical approach.
If you switch sides or fly in a different time frame, you will encounter even different enemy and therefore different enemy tactic to counter.
All that contribute to that possible loss of skill.

crucislancer
04-23-2008, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
With a risk of sounding like a smartarse about changing planes = degrading skill...
I believe that changing planes doesn't alone contribute to all that lose skill (only plane characteristics and gunnery) although they are the only reason for it... with different plane goes different tactical approach.
If you switch sides or fly in a different time frame, you will encounter even different enemy and therefore different enemy tactic to counter.
All that contribute to that possible loss of skill.

Smartarse. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JK, of course. True, more comes into play then just switching planes, but drastic changes in the type of plane you fly, especially if you were flying a type for some time, has an effect on skills, at least for me.

Phil_K
04-23-2008, 08:54 AM
Yeah. If I fly the Me-262 for a while, then switch to another plane, I find I'm still gently throttling upwards to avoid engine fires....

DKoor
04-23-2008, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
With a risk of sounding like a smartarse about changing planes = degrading skill...
I believe that changing planes doesn't alone contribute to all that lose skill (only plane characteristics and gunnery) although they are the only reason for it... with different plane goes different tactical approach.
If you switch sides or fly in a different time frame, you will encounter even different enemy and therefore different enemy tactic to counter.
All that contribute to that possible loss of skill.

Smartarse. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JK, of course. True, more comes into play then just switching planes, but drastic changes in the type of plane you fly, especially if you were flying a type for some time, has an effect on skills, at least for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>My biggest gripe when switching planes is gunnery. I'm quite accustomed to almost any fighter in the game (considering flying characteristics) playing all these years... but really, recently when I switched from MG151 equipped planes to .50cal equipped ones, my gunnery was fair at best http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif .

DKoor
04-23-2008, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Phil_K:
Yeah. If I fly the Me-262 for a while, then switch to another plane, I find I'm still gently throttling upwards to avoid engine fires.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , something similar happened to me when I switched from Hurricane Mk.I to Mk.II, I still avoided negative G maneuvers due to bad experiences with Mk.I cutting engine carburator.
Of course unintentionally.

Xiolablu3
04-23-2008, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
Cool. Hopefully the map rotation on UKded2 will favor me getting some stick time in the Yak, and the La-5 or La-7 as well.


I used toi love La5 vs Bf109G2/F4 maps.

That matchup is a great fight from either side.

I prefer to fly the bf109, but the La5 is no slouch either. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Sillius_Sodus
04-23-2008, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:

I'm that way with the Yaks right now, but it's getting much better. I actually found a offline campaign for a Yak fighter, "Yaks Over Memel" (seems to be the only one!), so I gave the first mission a spin last night.



Crucislancer,

There is an stock Offline campaign for the Yak covering operations by the Normandie-Niemen squadron. I think it's the best non user-made campaign out there, well balanced with lots of action.

crucislancer
04-23-2008, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:

I'm that way with the Yaks right now, but it's getting much better. I actually found a offline campaign for a Yak fighter, "Yaks Over Memel" (seems to be the only one!), so I gave the first mission a spin last night.



Crucislancer,

There is an stock Offline campaign for the Yak covering operations by the Normandie-Niemen squadron. I think it's the best non user-made campaign out there, well balanced with lots of action. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Is this a static campaign in the USSR section, or French? I don't recall seeing it, but I do have a ton of campaigns loaded, pretty easy to miss one.

DKoor
04-23-2008, 04:36 PM
AFAIK there is a DGen offline campaign already built in with French speechpack.
You can pretty much fly Yaks all the way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
Yak-1B, Yak-9, Yak-9D, Yak-9T, Yak-3... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Normandie Niemen campaign.

crucislancer
04-23-2008, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
AFAIK there is a DGen offline campaign already built in with French speechpack.
You can pretty much fly Yaks all the way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
Yak-1B, Yak-9, Yak-9D, Yak-9T, Yak-3... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Normandie Niemen campaign.

I thought he was talking about a static campaign. There are quite a few Dgen camapigns that feature the Yaks and Las, I was actually thinking about starting one with the Yak-1 on up.

Though, for some reason I keep thinking there was a Normandie Niemen static campaign in the original IL-2. I could be mistaken, though. I'll check tonight when I get home, I still have it on my hard drive.

Wildnoob
04-23-2008, 05:08 PM
LA-5 pilot's experience other problems we don't have on the sim.

folks, take a look wat I found in the Wikipedia about the LA-5 :

"In the summer of 1943, a brand-new La-5 made a forced landing on a German airfield providing Luftwaffe with an opportunity to test-fly the newest Soviet fighter. Test pilot Hans-Werner Lerche wrote a detailed report of his experience [1]. He particularly noted that the La-5FN excelled at altitudes below 3,000 meters (9,840 ft) but suffered from short range and flight time of only 40 minutes at cruise engine power. All of the engine controls (throttle, mixture, propeller pitch, radiator and cowl flaps, and supercharger gearbox) had separate levers which served to distract the pilot during combat to make constant adjustments or risk suboptimal performance. For example, rapid acceleration required moving no less than six levers. In contrast, contemporary German aircraft had largely automatic engine controls with the pilot operating a single lever and electromechanical devices making the appropriate adjustments. Due to airflow limitations, the engine boost system (Forsazh) could not be used above 2,000 meters (6,560 ft). Stability in all axes was generally good. The authority of the ailerons was deemed exceptional but the rudder was insufficiently powerful at lower speeds. At speeds in excess of 600 km/h (370 mph), the forces on control surfaces became excessive. Horizontal turn time at 1,000 meters (3,280 ft) and maximum engine power was 25 seconds. In comparison with Luftwaffe fighters, the La-5FN was found to have a comparable top speed and acceleration at low altitude. It possessed a higher roll rate and a smaller turn radius than the Bf 109 and a better climb rate than the Fw 190A-8. Bf 109 utilizing MW 50 had superior performance at all altitudes, and Fw 190A-8 had better dive performance. Lerche's recommendations were to attempt to draw the La-5FN to higher altitudes, to escape attacks in a dive followed by a high-speed shallow climb, and to avoid prolonged turning engagements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-5

M_Gunz
04-23-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
With a risk of sounding like a smartarse about changing planes = degrading skill...
I believe that changing planes doesn't alone contribute to all that lose skill (only plane characteristics and gunnery) although they are the only reason for it... with different plane goes different tactical approach.

I was only mentioning about gunnery, trajectory and timing of shots. Flying too suffers some.
And I was on about jumping from plane to plane as a practice, not try something different and
either go back or switch.

Tactics should change depending on matchup IMO. 109 is best as energy fighter against some
and angles fighter against others though some planes are so far to one end of the spectrum
that they are only suited to one style.

Sillius_Sodus
04-23-2008, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:

I'm that way with the Yaks right now, but it's getting much better. I actually found a offline campaign for a Yak fighter, "Yaks Over Memel" (seems to be the only one!), so I gave the first mission a spin last night.



Crucislancer,

There is an stock Offline campaign for the Yak covering operations by the Normandie-Niemen squadron. I think it's the best non user-made campaign out there, well balanced with lots of action. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? Is this a static campaign in the USSR section, or French? I don't recall seeing it, but I do have a ton of campaigns loaded, pretty easy to miss one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi crucislancer,

It's a Russian campaign, it will show up as one of the choices when you start the USSR fighter pilot career.

DKoor
04-24-2008, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
LA-5 pilot's experience other problems we don't have on the sim.

folks, take a look wat I found in the Wikipedia about the LA-5 :

"In the summer of 1943, a brand-new La-5 made a forced landing on a German airfield providing Luftwaffe with an opportunity to test-fly the newest Soviet fighter. Test pilot Hans-Werner Lerche wrote a detailed report of his experience [1]. He particularly noted that the La-5FN excelled at altitudes below 3,000 meters (9,840 ft) but suffered from short range and flight time of only 40 minutes at cruise engine power. All of the engine controls (throttle, mixture, propeller pitch, radiator and cowl flaps, and supercharger gearbox) had separate levers which served to distract the pilot during combat to make constant adjustments or risk suboptimal performance. For example, rapid acceleration required moving no less than six levers. In contrast, contemporary German aircraft had largely automatic engine controls with the pilot operating a single lever and electromechanical devices making the appropriate adjustments. Due to airflow limitations, the engine boost system (Forsazh) could not be used above 2,000 meters (6,560 ft). Stability in all axes was generally good. The authority of the ailerons was deemed exceptional but the rudder was insufficiently powerful at lower speeds. At speeds in excess of 600 km/h (370 mph), the forces on control surfaces became excessive. Horizontal turn time at 1,000 meters (3,280 ft) and maximum engine power was 25 seconds. In comparison with Luftwaffe fighters, the La-5FN was found to have a comparable top speed and acceleration at low altitude. It possessed a higher roll rate and a smaller turn radius than the Bf 109 and a better climb rate than the Fw 190A-8. Bf 109 utilizing MW 50 had superior performance at all altitudes, and Fw 190A-8 had better dive performance. Lerche's recommendations were to attempt to draw the La-5FN to higher altitudes, to escape attacks in a dive followed by a high-speed shallow climb, and to avoid prolonged turning engagements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-5 Thanks for the link.... now I wonder why they put a German report of LA-5FN on Wikipedia when there is a several Soviet ones, some of which you can read on previous pages, I took a picture of them from a book.
Not that hard to find them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

DKoor
04-24-2008, 07:26 AM
And yes... a German pilot named "Lerche" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif .

Wildnoob
04-24-2008, 10:19 AM
agreed, DKoor.

it's really fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

crucislancer
04-24-2008, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
Hi crucislancer,

It's a Russian campaign, it will show up as one of the choices when you start the USSR fighter pilot career.

I found it, I believe. The Dgen "fighter" career give you the option to select Normandie Niemen as your squadron, but it's the same campaign no matter the squadron you pick.

However, I do have a Normandie Niemen career in my France folder, which is a completely unique dgen campaign from the USSR ones. It offers 3 campaigns in the career, using the French voice packs and the default skins for the Yaks have different markings. I'm not sure if this came with the game or if it was installed with enjoyr's patches.

Still, there is only one static, user-made campaign that features a Yak, and that's the one I'm playing now, "Yaks Over Memel".

@Wildnoob:

I've read that article before. Some of this is mentioned in the Squadron/Signal book on the La-5/La-7, as well.

BTW, maybe it's just me, but it seems like I can do more damage with one salvo of the Yak-3s guns then with comparable guns on the 109. Or perhaps I'm just getting in some lucky shots, but I've taken the tail off of 4 out of 5 of the 109s that I've downed in that campaign, with a short burst.

I_KG100_Prien
04-24-2008, 11:36 AM
Reading this thread as reminded me that I really wish there were more servers that ran Eastern Front plane sets. I had tomatoes thrown at me when I mentioned that in one of the servers I used to frequent.. A lot of "eastern front sucks" bullfeathers.

C'mon more full switch eastern maps/servers!!!!

Sorry for thread de-railment.. I love the Yak series of planes myself, and wish I had more opportunity to fly them in an online environment- not to include airquake servers however http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

DKoor
04-24-2008, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by I_KG100_Prien:
Reading this thread as reminded me that I really wish there were more servers that ran Eastern Front plane sets. I had tomatoes thrown at me when I mentioned that in one of the servers I used to frequent.. A lot of "eastern front sucks" bullfeathers.

C'mon more full switch eastern maps/servers!!!!

Sorry for thread de-railment.. I love the Yak series of planes myself, and wish I had more opportunity to fly them in an online environment- not to include airquake servers however http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif +1

I like airquake too, just there is too many popular airquakes that features eastern front planesets (almost all are late war) in comparison to the specific eastern war popular server scenarios on "realistic" or WarClouds like settings (I like both although due to my crappy vid card I prefer limited icons, cannot play on "perfect" video settings).

One exception (among very very few) is Spits vs 109s server ("realistic"), I had really good time there... I flew Yak-9 and P-39N vs Bf-109F/G and FW-190As... was really nice experience http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

DKoor
04-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
BTW, maybe it's just me, but it seems like I can do more damage with one salvo of the Yak-3s guns then with comparable guns on the 109. Or perhaps I'm just getting in some lucky shots, but I've taken the tail off of 4 out of 5 of the 109s that I've downed in that campaign, with a short burst. Generally that seems to be true.

UB HMG seems to have more power and far superior trajectory than comparable MG131s...

But on the other hand Bf-109 in game seems to be A6M Zero of the European theater concerning DM's. Almost as a rule, you cannot achieve similar results when shooting at FW-190 which seems to be rock solid in comparison to the 109s. Truth to be told I can't think of a single plane that has that softy DM as Bf-109.
But still... one solid UB burst on FW-190 and he is, if not "dead in water", certainly effectively out of further battle operations.

"Sniping" with UB and ShVAK is possible from quite a distance... I noticed that I can score hits from 600m -dead 6- hits on E/A in game.
Sometimes those are enough in order to be able to "catch up" with fleeing E/A.

In comparison both MG131 and MG151/20 - (I don't even wanna mention Mk108 which has terrible trajectory when trying to "snipe" especially on high velocity targets) - are quite worse in this "sniping" dept.
However due to high RoF and high quantity of ammo you have an opportunity to take quite a few long sniper shots, especially in FW-190; that plane really has plenty of ammo! And it is possible to score regularly on distances 400-500m with appropriate conv settings (Bf-109s are, due to nose mounted guns/cannons less affected with "bad" conv settings).

DKoor
04-24-2008, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
agreed, DKoor.

it's really fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It could be that our x__CRASH__x is playing on Wikipedia http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .

(I hope you know what individual I refer to here)
If not czech this out;

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/291...911059443#2911059443 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2911059443?r=2911059443#2911059443)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
04-24-2008, 03:53 PM
@DKoor I just wanted to thank you for posting those documents before. Not sure if I did but those are great...never seen such details for the Lavochkin series.

@I_KG100_Prien: Try UK-Dedicated3. Its pretty close to full switch and it runs a mix of pacific, west, and east front scenarios. Its about 1/3rd of each. Unfortunately some folks don't want to fly Russian planes for some reason...everyone wants to fly Spitfires and Mustangs all day. I like to fly them but I find it boring and have quite enjoyed getting to know the Yak, Mig, and La series of fighters and how they fare against the 109 and 190s.

crucislancer
04-24-2008, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
@DKoor I just wanted to thank you for posting those documents before. Not sure if I did but those are great...never seen such details for the Lavochkin series.

@I_KG100_Prien: Try UK-Dedicated3. Its pretty close to full switch and it runs a mix of pacific, west, and east front scenarios. Its about 1/3rd of each. Unfortunately some folks don't want to fly Russian planes for some reason...everyone wants to fly Spitfires and Mustangs all day. I like to fly them but I find it boring and have quite enjoyed getting to know the Yak, Mig, and La series of fighters and how they fare against the 109 and 190s.

+1 for both.

Part of the reason I started this thread, besides getting my rear blown off in a Yak-1, was so I have more options when those Eastern front maps show up. Normally I'd just go Blue and take up a 109. It's always nice to take them down as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The few times that I've ventured onto UKded3 I've had the pleasure of flying VVS planes. I recall the first time on I was flying a La-5, managed to shoot down a 109, then got into a furball with another. The funny thing about the furball was that, since I wasn't quite used to the La-5, I blew all my ammo on that first kill. So, with only 5 minutes left for that map, I continued the fighter dance with the 109. I had him a couple of times, which was nice and frustrating at the same time. It ended in a draw when the map switched.

TheGozr
04-28-2008, 12:05 AM
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/screen/il2fb-2008-04-21-11-23-35-2.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/screen/il2fb-2008-04-21-11-28-32-6.jpg

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/images/screen/il2fb-2008-04-21-12-07-29-6.jpg

M_Gunz
04-28-2008, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
UB HMG seems to have more power and far superior trajectory than comparable MG131s...

Also about 50% higher ROF than even US 50 cal.

I have German chart for setting guns, FW190A shows gunsight zero of the 131's crossing at
about 150m on the way up and 500m on the way down.

If you are firing in climb or dive remember always to shoot low. The shots drop less relative
to the sight when fired off-horizontal.