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MrSteven37
04-20-2010, 07:35 PM
Hey guys, a spot came up today that I thought might be worth discussing, in the Riga_Dogfight server (full switch + friendly icons and speed bar). I was in a Spitfire MK. VIII against a FW190-A6 and a BF109-F4, far out over water where it was unlikely that anyone else would join the fray. Now against the 109 I want to energy fight with him, but as for the 190 my only real chance is to lure him into a turn fight. Now obviously everytime I try to lure him into the turn fight the F4 is able to get inside me for a good firing chance, and everytime I try and extend on the F4 the 190 is able to catch me. We were at about 10 thousand feet so what I was doing was extending as far as possible until the 190 was about 1KM behind me and then I would go into a nice big high speed split S and then reef it back up to around 9000 feet. I was able to keep my distance from the F4 and also temporarily lose the 190, but as far as offense goes, a firing opportunity just seems to be totally unlikely. Luckily, the 190 pilot wasn't too great, and I sensed that he was losing patience, and after doing this manoeuver about 8 or 9 times, he seemed to get greedy and just hold his stick in his gut. I got a decent shot off on him, lots of .303 hits and a 20mm to his wing root. And then I just booked it out of there. I thought this was pretty interesting, and figured against 2 pilots of equal skill to me, I'm just completely done for in this spot everytime. Anyone ever fly with a wingman in this sort of setup to gain an advantage like this? Discuss.

danjama
04-20-2010, 07:53 PM
A wingman is essential, in any situation.

MrSteven37
04-20-2010, 08:50 PM
Sorry, what I meant was does anyone ever choose to fly a 190A6 while their wingman flies the 109F4? I suppose there would also be an endless combination of airplanes to achieve this as well, P51 and Spitfire? La-5 and I-16? Ya know?

Erkki_M
04-21-2010, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by MrSteven37:
Sorry, what I meant was does anyone ever choose to fly a 190A6 while their wingman flies the 109F4? I suppose there would also be an endless combination of airplanes to achieve this as well, P51 and Spitfire? La-5 and I-16? Ya know?

Personally no, its best to have both(or all) guys flying the same aircraft. Combination of different types can be effective at times, but trying to do the same task with them can end badly.

If you end in 1 vs 2 situation where you cant egress(190 being faster), you've made the mistake earlier in letting you get in such a situation. If you dont have excess energy to corckscrew-climb out of the situation you could dive out and cross your fingers(not a good idea if there are no friendlies nearby) or try to kill the 109 before the 190 gets you. I would probably go for the last if first was not possible and the 190 was not reachable with current energy. You sure would have been screwed had those guys had any idea of what they were doing. Probably they were not in comms("radio") either.

MrSteven37
04-21-2010, 12:28 AM
No, they were definetely not on comms. It wasn't a particularly difficult situation for me this time given the skill of the 2 enemies, just the combination of planes kind of got me thinking about it.

na85
04-21-2010, 01:01 AM
Bf109-FW190 pairs can be extremely effective... without a wingman there's really not much you can do unless you hold a significant energy advantage at the start of the engagement.

Sounds like you did the right thing though: Play defensively until one of them gets greedy, shoot his ***, and then extend again. With the 190 damaged you'll definitely have a speed advantage over both enemy A/C now.

Also maybe try a spiral climb? The 190 sure won't be able to climb with you, and I doubt the F-4 will either. Against a G-2 you might not fare so well in that department.

TinyTim
04-21-2010, 02:56 AM
Nice combo of planes, but I think with the MkVIII you could outclimb them and toy with them from there. Now if there was a G-2 instead of the F-4, that would have been a thougher time for a spit.

109/190 is similar to Spit/Tempest or Spit/Mustang - you can't outclimb, can't outdive, can't outrun nor outturn. Very deadly combo.

I usually strive to have at least one thing I'm better in than my opposition, in these combinations its hard to find one, though in your example climb seems to be it - it's hard to use it in practice tho.

Jumoschwanz
04-25-2010, 08:55 AM
Using the phrase "full-switch with icons on" to describe Riga server is like saying a room is fully dark with a light turned on, it just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Actually it is "normal difficulty without outside views." I consider it an arcade server that is good for non-serious fun and practicing furballing.

Whenever I fly a FW190A, I don't mind having a bf109 along at all, the two aircraft can compliment each other. If you do not think so it is just a matter of your mind being a bit closed.

Likewise, I would not mind a Spit along if I was in a Jug or Stang.

The long icons makes flying on Riga really easy, as it eliminates most chance you can bounce anyone, and it eliminates having to learn to I.D. aircraft by sight at all.