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View Full Version : Oooh uh why weren`t LW gunsights



carguy_
09-19-2004, 08:25 AM
fitted IN THE CENTRE front of the canopy like other planes had it?

Any special reasons?Cuz in the game it`s just another flaw.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Self-proclaimed dedicated Willywhiner since July 2002

carguy_
09-19-2004, 08:25 AM
fitted IN THE CENTRE front of the canopy like other planes had it?

Any special reasons?Cuz in the game it`s just another flaw.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Self-proclaimed dedicated Willywhiner since July 2002

reddevil49
09-19-2004, 08:30 AM
I think it has something to do with an eye dominance thing.

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-19-2004, 08:31 AM
Come on Carguy. It's in the game because that's how it was in the bird. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

The question of why it was designed that way is a good one though and one I don't have the answer to. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif


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Platypus_1.JaVA
09-19-2004, 09:04 AM
When you aim down a barrel of a gun, you squeeze one eye shut so your aim is better.

The German aircraft designers had this in mind. Because the eye you aim with, is never in the center of your head (basic human anatomy) so, when you are looking with your off-centre eye through a centred gunsight, you end, lining up your target also off-centre.

The aircraft deigners asumed that every pilot would squeeze its left eye I guess. BTW the the P-47 D10 and D22 also have off-centre gunsights.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-19-2004, 09:05 AM
I can't believe I am falling for this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

OldMan____
09-19-2004, 09:15 AM
So I would never fly one! My eye dominance is left side. (and I am right handed)

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

karost
09-19-2004, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
So I would never fly one! My eye dominance is left side. (and I am right handed)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I thing you can not pass the "eye test" in LW fighter school http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

horseback
09-19-2004, 10:49 AM
Shift + F1. Now, go and sin no more.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

actionhank1786
09-19-2004, 10:50 AM
The P-47's had them to get around the cockpit frame (god i hate the placement of that thing so much) the Luftwaffe had it...well just because it made them different. You can't take over the world if you're just like everyone else now can you? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


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Actionhank
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SeaFireLIV
09-19-2004, 11:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
fitted IN THE CENTRE front of the canopy like other planes had it?

Any special reasons?Cuz in the game it`s just another flaw.

_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YAWN!

LStarosta
09-19-2004, 11:37 AM
You looked cooler when you had that tongue-in-cheek expression on your face with your head cocked to the right.

BTW, if you're gonna fish, at least create a new user name or something...

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NegativeGee
09-19-2004, 12:58 PM
I see the recent trend for fishing is begining to rub off onto the regulars. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

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carguy_
09-19-2004, 01:49 PM
Oh and I thought stupid questions don`t existhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Self-proclaimed dedicated Willywhiner since July 2002

Chuck_Older
09-19-2004, 01:52 PM
When did you first notice this flaw? July '02? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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DayGlow
09-19-2004, 02:07 PM
Just wondering how much harder was it to calibrate a LW gunsight. I know with rifles you want a scope a low to the firing line as possible to make adjusting the zero more easy and more reliable at different ranges. It would seem that the LW gunsight would only show where to fire at an exact range, since it is off-axis of the line of fire.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/myshots/dayglow3sig.jpg
I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft and I do not speak for them.
All my comments are IMHO

Jungmann
09-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Off-center sight in the Jug is, as is said, because canopy center frame was in the way. Not sure I buy the one-eye domininance thing for the Jerry fighters--maybe, but. The projected reticle on any illuminated sight was focussed at infinity, specifically so the pilot could use both eyes (the reticle appearing OUT THERE, at the same distance as the target, not at the end of a telescopic tube and so demanding a constant re-focussing of the eye between the reticle a foot and a half away, say. and a target at 200 feet)--that was its advantage over earlier ring and post sights. But it's a good question--why the Jerry offset?

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Jungmann

"Oh, the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga..."

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-19-2004, 03:05 PM
I think the troll season begins on the forums. Most ppl (europe at least) are back from holidays, the days are getting shorter and the temperature is getting lower. That means that alot of these ppl are spending more and more time inside, with the PC. THAT means that more and more ppl are getting bored and trying to lure as many clueless forum members in their troll posts.

Well, I've had it with you all!! I'm not posting here ever again!!!

I'm not going to play this game anymore because the community is so full of small kiddies!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

-HH- Beebop
09-19-2004, 03:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Because the eye you aim with, is never in the center of your head (basic human anatomy).... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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FI WILLIE
09-19-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So I would never fly one! My eye dominance is left side. (and I am right handed)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I resemble that remark and have shot with my left eye closed all my life. I guess we should have been born left handed.. Now I've got that right brain/left brain confusion thing going on. I guess I'll go the the bra and have a few pints..

Dyslexics UNTIE!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Tully__
09-19-2004, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DayGlow:
Just wondering how much harder was it to calibrate a LW gunsight. I know with rifles you want a scope a low to the firing line as possible to make adjusting the zero more easy and more reliable at different ranges. It would seem that the LW gunsight would only show where to fire at an exact range, since it is off-axis of the line of fire.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/myshots/dayglow3sig.jpg
_I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft and I do not speak for them.
All my comments are IMHO_
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That couple of inches to the right is a lot less off axis from the LW nose mounted guns than the several metres between a Hurricane Mk1's outer guns and its sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for why it was done that way in the real Luftwaffe planes, who knows. I've seen all sorts of explanations, from the eye dominance ones mentioned here to a suggestion it may have been to improve forward visibility for landing. While I've occasionally seen references to documentation supporting one reason or another, I've never had an oppurtunity to check any of those references for myself.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)
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Salut
Tully

T_O_A_D
09-19-2004, 09:04 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif This made me laugh Platypus, when I read your sig.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
I think the troll season begins on the forums. Most ppl (europe at least) are back from holidays, the days are getting shorter and the temperature is getting lower. That means that alot of these ppl are spending more and more time inside, with the PC. THAT means that more and more ppl are getting bored and trying to lure as many clueless forum members in their troll posts.

Well, I've had it with you all!! I'm not posting here ever again!!!

I'm not going to play this game anymore because the community is so full of small kiddies!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
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Fehler
09-20-2004, 03:43 AM
Well, I cant speak for the 109, but in the 190, the sight is cocked off to the right so you can get an unobstructed view of the bar at the bottom edge of the cockpit.

ROFL!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler44.jpg

OldMan____
09-20-2004, 04:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DayGlow:
Just wondering how much harder was it to calibrate a LW gunsight. I know with rifles you want a scope a low to the firing line as possible to make adjusting the zero more easy and more reliable at different ranges. It would seem that the LW gunsight would only show where to fire at an exact range, since it is off-axis of the line of fire.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/myshots/dayglow3sig.jpg
_I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft and I do not speak for them.
All my comments are IMHO_
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That couple of inches to the right is a lot less off axis from the LW nose mounted guns than the several metres between a Hurricane Mk1's outer guns and its sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for why it was done that way in the real Luftwaffe planes, who knows. I've seen all sorts of explanations, from the eye dominance ones mentioned here to a suggestion it may have been to improve forward visibility for landing. While I've occasionally seen references to documentation supporting one reason or another, I've never had an oppurtunity to check any of those references for myself.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip
http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm

Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe a combination? Maybe they wanted better landing visibility, so decided to move it, and the decision about going right or left came from eye dominance.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

Sharpe26
09-20-2004, 05:05 AM
I'm just wondering why nobody ever asked any vets about this?

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-20-2004, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif This made me laugh Platypus, when I read your sig. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's so funny in my sig? Even the community is porked!!! Toad is making fun of me!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I am deeply shocked.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

BM357_TinMan
09-20-2004, 09:08 AM
Seems like a fishing expedition here.

BUT

I've heard, and it seems reasonable, that it got the clunky thing out of the way for visability, and you just leaned into it to aim/shoot.

Who knows if that is right or not because I think I read that on this forum and didn't hear it from a vet.

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

Tully__
09-20-2004, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
Seems like a fishing expedition here...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh absolutely it's a fishing expidition, but that doesn't make the question invalid. I'd rather like to see the real reason as it happens, hence my participation. Were I not interested I'd simply stay out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)
Joysticks & FB (http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm)

Salut
Tully

T_O_A_D
09-20-2004, 09:29 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Well I'll try and explain then. YOu posted a judement of the others bieng a trolls. So you wasn't going to post here anymore. Then I read your sig.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

I had to laugh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Don't take it to serious, It might be my sence of humor thats wacked http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif This made me laugh Platypus, when I read your sig. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's so funny in my sig? Even the community is porked!!! Toad is making fun of me!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I am deeply shocked.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
Commanding Officer of the 131st_VFW (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

DayGlow
09-20-2004, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DayGlow:
Just wondering how much harder was it to calibrate a LW gunsight. I know with rifles you want a scope a low to the firing line as possible to make adjusting the zero more easy and more reliable at different ranges. It would seem that the LW gunsight would only show where to fire at an exact range, since it is off-axis of the line of fire.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/myshots/dayglow3sig.jpg
_I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft and I do not speak for them.
All my comments are IMHO_
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That couple of inches to the right is a lot less off axis from the LW nose mounted guns than the several metres between a Hurricane Mk1's outer guns and its sight http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As for why it was done that way in the real Luftwaffe planes, who knows. I've seen all sorts of explanations, from the eye dominance ones mentioned here to a suggestion it may have been to improve forward visibility for landing. While I've occasionally seen references to documentation supporting one reason or another, I've never had an oppurtunity to check any of those references for myself.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip
http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm

Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still with the Hurricane, the guns are converged to a single point infront of the plane. At the same time longer or shorter shots are still in the gunsight area, just the rounds aren't all hitting in a small area. But with the LW plane, the gun sight also would have to be converged to that point. A shorter or longer shot, the LW gunsight would be pointing to the left or right of the target.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/myshots/dayglow3sig.jpg
I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft and I do not speak for them.
All my comments are IMHO

Tully__
09-20-2004, 09:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DayGlow:
A shorter or longer shot, the LW gunsight would be pointing to the left or right of the target.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With convergence set at 100m, it would be not until about 1500m that the LW sight would even approach how far off target the outside guns of the Hurricane are at only 200-300m with the same convergence setting. This is the primary advantage of nose mounted and wing root mounted guns/cannon over the widely spaced guns on the Spit, Hurricane and some other allied a/c. Even with the offset sight, LW aircraft have far few problems with shots not close to convergence than allied aircraft equipped with wing mounted guns.

=================================================


http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/sig.jpg

Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)
Joysticks & FB (http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm)

Salut
Tully

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-20-2004, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DayGlow:

Still with the Hurricane, the guns are converged to a single point infront of the plane. At the same time longer or shorter shots are still in the gunsight area, just the rounds aren't all hitting in a small area. But with the LW plane, the gun sight also would have to be converged to that point. A shorter or longer shot, the LW gunsight would be pointing to the left or right of the target.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The German sights where off centre by only a few centimeters so, I don't think that would make much of a diffrence whem aiming on a fighter, about 150m in front of you.

I'm guessing of course.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-20-2004, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Well I'll try and explain then. YOu posted a judement of the others bieng a trolls. So you wasn't going to post here anymore. Then I read your sig.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

I had to laugh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Don't take it to serious, It might be my sence of humor thats wacked http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, your sense of humor is okay. Lately, there where alot of good troll threads closed by the moderators, before I could have a chance to place a reply. I wanted to have some fun too so, I began some trolling myself.

Ow, and you where right about the sig http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (mathew 7 vs 1 and 2)

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
09-20-2004, 03:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
Well, I cant speak for the 109, but in the 190, the sight is cocked off to the right _so you can get an unobstructed view of the bar at the bottom edge of the cockpit_.

ROFL!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler44.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm used to it. I think the 190 makes you better because it is harder to aim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And don't you love the way those puny little yaks fall apart in from of your quad 20mm guns http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.


Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB

http://home.deds.nl/~bhummel/gif/D8390.jpg

Multimetal
09-21-2004, 10:43 AM
As far as eye dominance goes, I really doubt that pilots closed one eye to aim. The whole idea of the reflector sight was to give a larger sight picture, and to keep the pilot from having to squint. I know that when I shoot shotguns at aerial targets, I shoot with both eyes open for a better sight picture. Maybe I'm wrong?

Chuck_Older
09-24-2004, 08:42 AM
I certainly wouldn't give up my stereovision by closing an eye.


Why can't the reason just be simply:
This is 1930s and 1940s tech we're talking about here. It seemed like a good idea to somebody so they went with it. they disn't have the experience yet to think "gee, that's dumb"

It's like asking why the designer of the Panzer III didn't use a Panzer V's design. Well, he hadn't got that far yet.

Buckaroo12
09-24-2004, 10:07 AM
I don't think the eye dominance thing has anything to do with it. I do a LOT of hunting adn wether i'm shooting a 12 ga at fast moving ducks or admiring a trophy elk through the scope on my 7mm, I keep both eyes open.