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Breeze147
10-16-2005, 08:38 AM
I'm getting my first extended exposure to this plane in Bird Brain's "El Alamein". I cannot understand the negativity towards this plane. It is very easy to fly, trims like a dream, is fast and who can top **ahem** 6 .50 cals?

Kuna15
10-16-2005, 08:47 AM
I almost always favour P-40E/M in game over Spitfire MK.5.
It handles really good and it has decent firepower (better than Spitfire IMHO).

In one period that was my favourite fighter. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Unfortunately durability isn't one of its strong points.

F19_Ob
10-16-2005, 08:51 AM
Never heard anyone really dislike it before.
Online though it used to be common to pit an early p40 against later 109's instead of having a p40 from the same year. This meant that the earlier p40 had too little energy to catch or even turnfight for long with a 109.

Other than that I haven't heard anything.
BTW I like it too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-16-2005, 08:57 AM
nobody hates the P40 me thinks, although its not most poeople first choice.
It can more than hold its own against a Bf-109E,F series

btw one of the most fun plane match-up is the P-40B,C vs 109E IMO

P40 is sooo mad looking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

VW-IceFire
10-16-2005, 09:01 AM
I like the P-40. Its a nice plane to fly, it has its charms, and its a solid contender in any fight.

I think the Spitfire V is better as a fighter but in a pinch the P-40 will do the trick nicely as well. Its a very capable aircraft in the right hands.

Pirschjaeger
10-16-2005, 09:33 AM
I like the P-40 and think it's probably the prettiest plane in the sim. It handles well and turns tight but find it stalls fairly easy without warning.

The only drawback it really has is the lack of power. Imagine a P-40 with another 500psi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hey Gibbage! Can we have a P-40 Latest? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

jds1978
10-16-2005, 09:44 AM
as far as early war US designs, the P40 is THE plane to fly...if you like to T'n'B this is the US AC for you.

it definitely has a more balanced armament package than the spit. (i love spits, but once you run out of 20mm cannon rounds the jig is up...those .30 cal mgs are lame, sorry)

SeaFireLIV
10-16-2005, 09:52 AM
What negativity? the P40 is probably one of the most popular aircraft in the world. Every kid (like me) remembers it cos of those great shark teeth painted on the side. And in IL2/FB it`s still a fave of mine.

Low_Flyer_MkII
10-16-2005, 10:02 AM
Another P-40 fan here.

Chuck_Older
10-16-2005, 10:08 AM
I kinda like it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/Salween2a.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
10-16-2005, 10:19 AM
P-40 Rocks. No question. People hate it b/c their n00b planes can't compete with it's ACEitude.

blindpugh
10-16-2005, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Breeze147:
I'm getting my first extended exposure to this plane in Bird Brain's "El Alamein". I cannot understand the negativity towards this plane. It is very easy to fly, trims like a dream, is fast and who can top **ahem** 6 .50 cals? M8 i love the P40

Bremspropeller
10-16-2005, 10:53 AM
The only thing that sucks about the Kitty is it's view out of the pit (E and M).

F19_Olli72
10-16-2005, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I like the P-40 and think it's probably the prettiest plane in the sim. It handles well and turns tight but find it stalls fairly easy without warning.

The only drawback it really has is the lack of power. Imagine a P-40 with another 500psi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hey Gibbage! Can we have a P-40 Latest? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Why not? But afik the last version to see service in WW2 was P-40N, not used by USAAF (except for training) it mostly saw service in Russia and PTO (RAF, RAAF, RNZAF).

But hey why not a P-40F, just cos it looks cool with a Merlin in it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://glennhcurtiss.com/1944184f0.jpg

danjama
10-16-2005, 10:54 AM
I was shooting down P40s in my Emil last Night, ask Hoss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Freelancer-1
10-16-2005, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I like the P-40 and think it's probably the prettiest plane in the sim.

It's okay, but the MiG3 is da bomb for looks.

The only issue I've found with the P-40 is its stability on the ground. Once your in the air it's a real pleasure to fly.

BuzzU
10-16-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Breeze147:
who can top **ahem** 6 .50 cals?


**ahem** the P-47's 8 .50's... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chuck_Older
10-16-2005, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I like the P-40 and think it's probably the prettiest plane in the sim.

It's okay, but the MiG3 is da bomb for looks.

The only issue I've found with the P-40 is its stability on the ground. Once your in the air it's a real pleasure to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every P-40 variant I fly in 4.01 is rock steady on the ground. 4.01 cured the bumpiness of the takeoff. What problem are you having, bobbing up and down on the takeoff roll? Apply filtering to your pitch axis

tigertalon
10-16-2005, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Breeze147:
Why Do People Hate The P-40?

Because it bleeds E like crazy in a turnfight - even 1k of alt advantage can be gone in two passes against a F4 or G2...

quasimodo_3
10-16-2005, 12:06 PM
never hated it. decent firepower, turns with anything in this sim. Takes punishment without losing flyability. Makes it home even when it's all banged up. Outdives most. Wouldn't climb into a confrontation with it, gotta be at altitude to use it effectively.

VW-IceFire
10-16-2005, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
Why Do People Hate The P-40?

Because it bleeds E like crazy in a turnfight - even 1k of alt advantage can be gone in two passes against a F4 or G2... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats why you don't turn fight with this plane. The P-40 is a very natural BNZ machine...its got the weight and the controllability for some very competent BNZ moves.

Freelancer-1
10-16-2005, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

Every P-40 variant I fly in 4.01 is rock steady on the ground. 4.01 cured the bumpiness of the takeoff. What problem are you having, bobbing up and down on the takeoff roll? Apply filtering to your pitch axis

"Okay, Okay", Freelancer says, sheepishly. " So I haven't flown one since 4.01. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it."

VW-IceFire
10-16-2005, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

Every P-40 variant I fly in 4.01 is rock steady on the ground. 4.01 cured the bumpiness of the takeoff. What problem are you having, bobbing up and down on the takeoff roll? Apply filtering to your pitch axis

"Okay, Okay", Freelancer says, sheepishly. " So I haven't flown one since 4.01. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its a rock solid plane on the ground now...no more wacked out wobbling http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Copperhead310th
10-16-2005, 12:34 PM
The P-40 is great. IMO it's the most realistic flight model of all US AC in the sim. IMO

It's a very forgiving aircraft with moderate alt, spins & recoverys are no problem for anyone with minimal stick time in this ship.
Guns are good with in it's year class, it can T&B in a pinch & is a natrual B&Z fighter.
When training new virtual pilots i actually prefer to start them on the P-40 before moving them up to the Jug, or P-51.

In our matches with JV44 we flew differant scenerios starting in 1942 with our USAAF aircraft vs thier LW aircraft of the same year.
Match called for 3 rounds, 2 rounds of CAP vs GA, & 1 round fighter sweep. the 1942 match was a clear draw. So from the sim standpoint, at least in 4.01 patch, the P-40 can duke it out with the best of the 1942 axis planes on even terms. But again, much depends on the guy behind the stick in the P-40's.

I don't think anyone hates the plane a great deal.....it's just a little underated. & that's a real shame.

IL2-chuter
10-16-2005, 01:56 PM
The P-40N wasn't used by the USAAF in combat . . . only training??? I dare say that the 49th FG had nothing but Ns (of their P-40s) before switching to P-38's. And what about the 3rd Air Commando and 28th Composite and the 80th FG (the ones with the big skulls on the cowls) and the 15th FG . . .


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


What would be COOL would be including the offset fin in the flight model, if not in the graphics model. Other planes that should have it don't either . . . oh, well.

woofiedog
10-16-2005, 02:17 PM
A P-40 Photo Link: http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Fighters/P40/

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p40_warhawk.html

http://www.curtisswright.com/history/images/1934_tiger2.jpg

http://usaaf.com/aircraft/classes/images/p40-c.jpg
Curtis P-40 to P40C Hawk 81

http://usaaf.com/aircraft/classes/images/p40d-e.jpg
Curtis P-40D-E Warhawk/Kittyhawk

http://usaaf.com/aircraft/classes/images/p40f-l.jpg
Curtiss P-40F/L Warhawk

http://usaaf.com/aircraft/classes/images/p40k-p-n.jpg
Curtiss P-40K, P &N Warhawk


http://www.silverstatenews.com/newssections/Aviation/chinoairshow/gallery2day2/gallery1/index3/74.jpg

ICDP
10-16-2005, 02:19 PM
The early P40's are good fighters and I love flying them. I just can't bring myself to fly the P4E or M though. The 3D model of both is a complete joke, what sort of angle are the wings at!. Just looking at it makes me feel ill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Oh, I should add that I couldn't care less if I hurt the modellers feelings. The P40 came with AEP which I paid for. It is ironic that a lot of aircraft that are sorely needed are left out due to demands of historical accuracy from the devs (Ki-44 for example). They seem to allow such abominations to historical accuracy as the P40E and P40M without such worries.

Sorry rant over http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

P.S. thanks for the links woofiedog

han freak solo
10-16-2005, 02:43 PM
Han Freak Solo is on the P-40 bandwagon, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

GBrutus
10-16-2005, 03:12 PM
Orignally posted by F19_Olli72:

But hey why not a P-40F, just cos it looks cool with a Merlin in it

I never knew there was a Merlin engined P-40. That sounds like a sweet combination! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ImpStarDuece
10-16-2005, 04:44 PM
Why was the P-40 hated during the war? Or why is is hated in the game?

I don't think that either is applicable. BUT, it still wasn't ever a 1st class fighter.

It was generally overweight and underpowered throught its life time. The Allison V-1710s bled unnacceptable levels of power at high altitudes. The service ceiling of the P-40 never punched through 30,000 feet, the first variants struggling to make 25,000 feet. Contemporaries, such as the Spitfire, 109E and Zero could all make 35,000-37,000 feet. Even at low altitude climb was never good, and it dropped off dramatically above about 15,000 feet.

Throughout its life it had some very bad handling quirks that were never ironed out. It had a severe snap roll in a stall, wing drop on the P-40 was universally described as 'nasty'. Aerobatics were difficult in the plane. It had a tendency to tumble in loops and snap roll during slow rolls. The landing roll was very long and stall speeds were comparatively high.

The P-40s strengths were at low altitude; fair acceleration, fair turn, good dive, good strutural strength. The Allison V-1710 produced its most power about 11,000 feet. The Japanese reckoned that the P-40 was their most dangerous opponent below 10,000 feet.

So, with the way the sim is played; low level turning dogfights with some B'n'Z elements thrown in, the P-40 is perfect suited to its environment. It works well at low level, can shrugh of incedental damage and has reasnable firepower. As most people seem to believe that turning wins fights, the P-40 can come out ahead because of its good horizontal manouerability.

Put it above 20,000 feet though, and watch it suffer.

Zyzbot
10-16-2005, 04:55 PM
Here are a few comments about the P-40 from some folks who flew it:


(The following is from Wing Commander Edwards. He was a Canadian in RAF service.) €œThe Kittyhawk was apparently not an easy aircraft to learn to fly. There were several casualties in training accidents. Some Hurricane pilots simply refused to fly the type. After its initial introduction into combat squadrons, the type suffered heavily to Axis fighters. The mark 1 required a strong right arm to control. It picked up speed in a dive very quickly and was determined to roll right. While this could be controled with trim, this provided a strong tendency to pull left violently in a pull up. In a dogfight, these handling problems were a constant distraction.

The Mark 3 not only had much improved lateral stability, and became a good stable fighter, but never had the power or climbing ability of the top rated contemporary fighters, such as the Spitfire or Me 109. Also during the high G€s of dogfighting, the guns could jam. Its cruising speed was comparable to the Spitfire 8 & 9, it just had no jump on the throttle as the Spitfire did. The Kittyhawk 3 could out-maneuver the Me 109, though again, not as well as the Spitfire. In fact, the only maneuver that could truly thwart an Axis attack, was a steep turn into the attacker. Some RCAF fighter pilots were of the opinion that in order to truly appreciate the Spitfire, a tour in Kittyhawks was required! The RCAF made use of the Marks 1, 3, and 4, eventually acquring 143 fighters. The Kittyhawk was retired from service in 1946.(American equivalents: Kittyhawk 1=P-40D, Kittyhawk1A=P-40E, Kittyhawk 2=P-40F, Kittyhawk 3=P-40K-M, Kittyhawk 4=P-40N)


Joel Paris was a P-40 ace with the 49th Fighter Group in the Southwest Pacific. €œIn Fire in the Sky: The Air War in the South Pacific, he relates his opinion of the P-40:
I never felt that I was a second-class citizen in a P-40. In many ways I thought the P-40 was better than the more modern fighters. I had a hell of a lot of time in a P-40, probably close to a thousand hours. I could make it sit up and talk. It was an unforgiving airplane. It had vicious stall characteristics. ...
If you knew what you were doing, you could fight a Jap on even terms, but you had to make him fight your way. He could outturn you at slow speed. You could outturn him at high speed. When you got into a turning fight with him, you dropped your nose down so you kept your airspeed up, you could out turn him. At low speed he could outroll you because of those big ailerons. They looked like barn doors on the Zero. If your speed was up over 275, you could outroll it. His big ailerons didn't have the strength to make high speed rolls ...
You could push things, too. Because you knew one thing: If you decided to go home, you could go home. He couldn't because you could outrun him. He couldn't leave the fight because you were faster. That left you in control of the fight. Mind you: The P-40 was a fine combat airplane. €œ

VW-IceFire
10-16-2005, 07:27 PM
Zyzbot...I think that sums it up perfectly.

The biggest problem of the P-40 was not the P-40 but the corporate culture at Curtiss. They were very resistant to change and as you can see there aren't many huge changes after the P-40E. All of the other variants have relatively small improvements or attempts to increase performance.

There were some charges (not sure if they were ever sustained) of war profiteering at the end of the war and Curtiss faded from the scene rapidly.

While the P-40 was a viable design at the beginning of the war, by the end it was totally obsolete compared to its contemporaries. Consider the P-40F, M, or N against a Bf109K-4 or G-10. No contest.

There were some experiments conducted at improving performance, a prototype P-40Q with a total redesign including a bubble canopy and new wings topped out at 410mph.

Despite all that, nobody can say that the P-40 doesn't deserve its place in history. It was on the frontlines taking the bruises while the other frontline fighters were perfected and when those came online the P-40 filled in the gaps. It was tough and capable enough to make a difference and thats what was needed.

I think history remembers it well for the people who know.

Lewicide
10-16-2005, 07:51 PM
The one shot/stop engine thing.

ElAurens
10-16-2005, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Hey Gibbage! Can we have a P-40 Latest?


You mean this one?

http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/Allison%20Doc1.jpg

p1ngu666
10-16-2005, 09:39 PM
the japanease pilot could always outclimb to disengauge...

p40 was resonable. there was often better fighters, but not always avalible...

perfer my fighters with chin mounted rads to have 4 cannons stickin out, a 24 cylinder engine, and rockets.

obivously, the cannons stick out to spear anyone, once uve ran out of cannons.
the 24 cylinders for faster than the luftwaffe speeds, and the chin rad to feed air into the monster engine, and to cool its raging muscles.

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666///tiffy1.jpg

so much power the prop bends http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
the cannons, sticking out like a quartet of cavelery horses
when the sky turns red, the typhoons attack, unstoppably like the cavelery of old http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//typhoonpwn.jpg

p1ngu666
10-16-2005, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Hey Gibbage! Can we have a P-40 Latest?


You mean this one?

http://www.blitzpigs.com/photos/Allison%20Doc1.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

iirec closterman mentions openin the throttle to 20lbs on his spitfire somewhere, dunno where my copy of the book is tho, think i gave it to my dad http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

pourshot
10-16-2005, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
Why Do People Hate The P-40?

Because it bleeds E like crazy in a turnfight - even 1k of alt advantage can be gone in two passes against a F4 or G2... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are spot on Tiger it bleeds like a cut pig so you cant do too well without a wing man and if that 109 wants to disengage he can do so at will.

Also becuase the early 109's can turn with it no problem you have to kill him quick or he will get a advantage, but then a fast kill is not so easy in the Tomahawks just not enough fire power.(2x.50 4x.30=piss weak) although the later ones seem ok.(6x.50)

AlGroover
10-16-2005, 11:09 PM
The first release of the P40 in this game I think was in AEP and the FM needed and got considerable fixing in subsequent patches. I remember doing like everybody else with a new package of planes and having a quick fly of them all. The P40 was so bad I didn't go near it for a long time. Now it's one of my favourites and would thoroughly recommend it to any new players.

Siwarrior
10-16-2005, 11:28 PM
P40 is strong, itl put ya though a fight and get ya home
it rolls well, looks kewl,
Most peeps dont like it because they get beaten by it or becuase when they fly it they cant beat the 109s etc.
If you fly it right it can content with the latest planes

pourshot
10-16-2005, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Siwarrior:
If you fly it right it can content with the latest planes

Unless the other guy in the latest plane also fly's it right http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

After 1942 it's doing it hard against the faster fighters.

ps. the p40 is my favourit plane ever but I am realistic about it's performance.

HotelBushranger
10-17-2005, 03:36 AM
Pingu stop hijacking this thread!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

IMHO, the P-40 is THE beginner, intermediate and ace plane for players. No matter what level your skill is, it teaches you more and more every flight.

The Kitty is my plane, I might go off and fly some other plane for a while, but I always come crawling back. It's worth it. It's a BnZer though, use that. But in the right situations, you can use it to make some flick turns which take your opponent off guard.
About a month ago, I was turning, in my P-40M, with an La-7 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Oh but the devs have done bit of a dodge job though, the intakes and wings are munted. Intake is the most annoying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I VOTE WE GET P-40N NEXT PATCH! OLEG I WANT!!!

Respect!
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5739/p40nnl1195nleftreartaxiinglres.jpg


PS: If you think the P-40 is crappy, chuck yerself up against WTE_Chunder. I'd wish you good luck, but theres no hope http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

alert_1
10-17-2005, 04:30 AM
NO way I hate it, actually I like it very much, especially in my REVI looks very nice. If only was there more often.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sturm_Williger
10-17-2005, 04:32 AM
I can only imagine that the people who hate the P40 are the one's being shot down by it.

I've always liked it and to me it always proved that the .50's were NOT rubbish.

It overheats a bit quickly, but my piloting could also be improved, so ...

nakamura_kenji
10-17-2005, 04:39 AM
it maybe because lot people want best fast fighter can get when fly one not good blame plane not self. respect people fly p-40 enjoy very much fly against them make good openets for ki-61-I-ko

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-17-2005, 07:35 AM
I like it in '43 & earlier servers if for no other reason than it 'unsynched' .50's

Get a good burst into your opponent and they're toast. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

TB