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Bearcat99
12-05-2006, 04:32 PM
I recently aquired a Fx-53 64 bit CPU. I just bought a Gigabyte GA-K8U mobo and I am thinking of buying an OEM copy of XP64. What's the skinny on this OS? How does it work with Saitek, MSFFB2, Teamspeak and FB. Howabout things like Mission Mate, The UQMG and Hardball's viewer, also Manager & Stab? Is it worth it? Does a 64 CPU run better with it or the same?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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|ZUTI|
12-05-2006, 11:09 PM
A word of advice: stay away from XP64. Why? Because you'll have noting but problems. And then some. Especially if you think of using the system as games platform. Forget it. No real drivers support, compatibility problems... forget it. If you must have a 64bit OS, wait for Vista.

crazyivan1970
12-05-2006, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by |ZUTI|:
A word of advice: stay away from XP64. Why? Because you'll have noting but problems. And then some. Especially if you think of using the system as games platform. Forget it. No real drivers support, compatibility problems... forget it. If you must have a 64bit OS, wait for Vista.

You just made that all up?

The most stable OS i had on my HDD. All drivers are present and avail for download. It might get hairy with some 32 bit installers, but other then that....pure pleasure. Needless to say it is faster then standard 32 bit XP even for 32 bit apps. Just my 02c.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

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Capt.LoneRanger
12-05-2006, 11:56 PM
I must confess, XP64bit is the most stable and professional windows I had on my PC, so far. All neccessary drivers are there, most of the time even very good optimized ones.

Even most joystick drivers are available for download for XP64, now, including drivers for your X45.
http://www.saitek.de/down/64bit.htm

Pitty, the only producer not keeping up to date is Thrustmaster. AFAIK there is still no 64bit driver on the horizon. Last driver update is from 11/09/2004 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/Lone1copy.png

WOLFMondo
12-06-2006, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I recently aquired a Fx-53 64 bit CPU. I just bought a Gigabyte GA-K8U mobo and I am thinking of buying an OEM copy of XP64. What's the skinny on this OS? How does it work with Saitek, MSFFB2, Teamspeak and FB. Howabout things like Mission Mate, The UQMG and Hardball's viewer, also Manager & Stab? Is it worth it? Does a 64 CPU run better with it or the same?

I've been running if for about 2 months now on my game PC. It works a treat. Never crashes, every thing works fine, had a problem with an old total war game but that was down to dual cores and easily fixable. Every game apart from Rogue Trooper I've tried works and never had a driver problem. It also means you can have more than 2GB of RAM.

XP64 is also way cheaper than 32pro.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

BBB_Hyperion
12-06-2006, 01:56 AM
XP64 runs fine. Main Problem is drivers for 32 bit don't work all that good. Most 32 bit applications can be run over wow64 a 32bit emulation . It runs them in x86 mode. So when you have drivers for 64bit for all components you should give it a try.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-------------------
High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

DuxCorvan
12-06-2006, 03:35 AM
You can't have more than 2Gb RAM on a 32bit XP? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

|ZUTI|
12-06-2006, 05:06 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:

You just made that all up?

The most stable OS i had on my HDD. All drivers are present and avail for download. It might get hairy with some 32 bit installers, but other then that....pure pleasure. Needless to say it is faster then standard 32 bit XP even for 32 bit apps. Just my 02c.

Why would I made all that up?

A year ago i tried XP64. Nothing but problems. Visual studio 05 didn't work as it shluld, when i somehow fixed it and installed teamsystem on it, nothing worked. Drivers, yup, the installed fine but every single thing i ran on the worked way way slower that on XP32. But i suppose that was drivers fault and i'm glad to hear that they are more optimised now (speaking for nvidia). The only thing that worked fine was office 2003 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But OS was stable, generally speaking. I'll give you that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BelaLvgosi
12-06-2006, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
You can't have more than 2Gb RAM on a 32bit XP? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

The max it will take advantage is 3GB except for vanilla xp (non service packed).

XP64 is actually based on windows server 2003 kernel (NT5.2) with a xp desktop skin.
Thrustmaster promised 64bit drivers early next year after vista 64 ships (the last time I asked them), so let's see if they keep up. My cougar is the only thing keeping me from moving to xp64, for more than a year!

Bearcat99
12-06-2006, 06:28 AM
What about drivers for the MSFFB2 joystick? And other apps like the ones I mentioned in my original post...... do they all work fine?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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NetDaemon
12-06-2006, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by |ZUTI|:
A word of advice: stay away from XP64. Why? Because you'll have noting but problems. And then some. Especially if you think of using the system as games platform. Forget it. No real drivers support, compatibility problems... forget it. If you must have a 64bit OS, wait for Vista.

You just made that all up?

The most stable OS i had on my HDD. All drivers are present and avail for download. It might get hairy with some 32 bit installers, but other then that....pure pleasure. Needless to say it is faster then standard 32 bit XP even for 32 bit apps. Just my 02c. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif I only run PF in XP X64 due to better performance, stability and reliability.

I do keep an XP 32bit install in another partition to run stuff that won't work in XP64, mainly multimedia stuff. But I do all my gaming in the 64bit install.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

======================================
AMD64 X2 4400+ Dual Core Toledo, ASRock 939Dual SATA2, 2GB Corsair DDR400 Ram, ATI All-In-Wonder X800XT, 2x Hitachi 120GB SATAs in RAID1 mode, Antec TruePower II 550W PSU.

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BBB_Hyperion
12-06-2006, 07:06 AM
Most things run fine on xp64. FB , etc. Main Problems are mostly the installers , sometimes they don't get the xp64 reg and security structure and quit installing. So for some apps you might need to install em on another machine and copy them to xp64 and import registry entries . Be sure to import in the right registry there are 2 1 for 32 and 1 for 64 . You can find a seperate regeditor under wow64 directory. There is a 32 bit odbc as well (for coders, database issues (32 / 64 bit trouble).

For MSFFB2 don't know if there are 64bit drivers . Software doesn't matter much as it will be emulated but without driver not possible to use it.
Here a googled ubi result maybe it helps.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m...1070663/r/4701066663 (http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/2221070663/r/4701066663)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-------------------
High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

AFJ_rsm
12-06-2006, 10:12 AM
I tried it briefly

My main two gripes with it is the mess with the whole 32bit vs 64bit program separation (like different folders)

Also gameport isnt supported, and my old ffbpro is gameport only.

I also never saw a significant performance increase. Even if it were present, the fact gameport isnt supported just kills it for me.

zugfuhrer
12-06-2006, 12:36 PM
I tried the Beta version of XP-64 a year ago but uninstalled it because there where no antivirus and hotas cougar doesnt work on it.
XP-64 was fast and runned smoothly. Got better figures on 3D-mark with it.

I have read that there are some tricks to make hotas-cougar run on XP-64 and AVG and others got antivirus for XP-64.
Can anyone tell me how I shall do do make my hotas cougar run in XP-64 as good as it does in XP-32.

gprr
12-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Hi Bearcat99

As for FFB2 operation,here is waht mazwx wrote:
------------------------------------------------
mazex Posted Mon November 20 2006 12:25


Im running the "real Vista" (Unlimited edition - RTM release - build 6.0.6000). The MS FFB2 is recognized and works fine in IL2 4.0.5, the problem is that the FF does not work... The default self centering spring is there but no FF. It's been like that since the first betas and I hoped it would change - but it hasn't. Gotta see if I can find a way to fix it as it takes the joy out of the FFB2 (which I love).

EDIT: I'm running dual boot and it works just splendid in my XP SP2 install...

Regards /Mazex
Posts: 161 | Registered: Fri November 05 2004
------------------------------------------------
Good luck
gprr

Bearcat99
12-06-2006, 03:21 PM
What about the profiling software. I imagine that wouldnt work either.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Capt.LoneRanger
12-06-2006, 03:32 PM
Saitek, MSFFB2, Teamspeak and FB. Howabout things like Mission Mate, The UQMG and Hardball's viewer, also Manager & Stab? Is it worth it? Does a 64 CPU run better with it or the same?

MissionMate, UQMG and Hardball's a/c-viewer work fine. I also use IL2-Manager and IL2-Stab on XP64.

Teamspeak runs fine, too, even with Teamspeak-Overlay - no problems here.

Dunno why profiling software shoudln't run.

If you have software you're unsure about, send me a link and I'll test it for you.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/Arcadiac/Lone1copy.png

Bearcat99
12-06-2006, 03:55 PM
I have a TIR2.... I know they stopped supporting it for 32bit.. so I am hoping that I wont be out of luck with 64.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Sergio_101
12-06-2006, 04:19 PM
I run Win XP64 and Win XP pro in a dual boot system.
The difference is negligable.
XP-64 is a bit faster except in games.
In games the performance is identical.
XP-64 is wonderful overall.
Some older hardware is a pain and old 16 bit
software will NOT run.

So far I have found only one game that will
not run on XP-64, and only one PCI card
that had no driver support.
My ATI TV Wonder card has no support.

Since I need the 16 bit support I will continue to run dual boot.

By the was, I run XP64 on an older FX-53, it rocks, great OS.

Sergio<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

P-51s may not have won the war, but they did not loose it.
Loosing the war was left to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Bearcat99
12-06-2006, 09:35 PM
TY guys.. I dont have any 16bit stuff Sergio... so thats no prob. I just hope I can use my MSFFB software.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WOLFMondo
12-07-2006, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
You can't have more than 2Gb RAM on a 32bit XP? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

YOu can but XP won't assign anything over 2GB to anything. So games and the like will only ever see 2GB tops. With XP64 you can have more. 3GB is nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

accpps
12-09-2006, 11:29 PM
So the question that needs to be asked is upgrade to xp64(~$150) or wait for vista.

WOLFMondo
12-10-2006, 11:17 AM
Xp64 works. Vista is unproved. Given M$ history, it should be stable enough for use in 2009.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

Capt.England
12-10-2006, 11:39 AM
WOLFMondo,

Do you know how much memory XP64 can go up to?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Why do joysticks break when you need them the most?

WOLFMondo
12-10-2006, 01:12 PM
I think its 8GB. Might be 16. Not 100% sure without looking.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

RevvinUK
12-10-2006, 02:22 PM
XP64 has been solid as a rock for me, I can get drivers for everythign I have including most importantly to me my CH joystick drivers and programming software and TrackIR drivers.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.ch-hangar.com/SiteFiles/Images/ubbbanners/ch-hangar-spitfire.jpg (http://www.ch-hangar.com)

Profiles, news and help for CH users

Ugly_Kid
12-10-2006, 02:32 PM
I bought myself a copy of 64bit XP - I was stupid enough to install it on a new S-ATA drive. Even this was not the most simple matter since I had to boot up to linux and fetch the S-ATA controller drivers for the installation program - we are living year 2006 and M$ isn't able to make XP installation recognise S-ATA, hello?

Next thing I have a MoBo for AMD64 CPU and I can only find 32bit windows drivers on ASUS site for it! Hello, where are we? I get somewhere something that will pass for it after some tedious search but I could not find the drivers for all the integrated controllers.

Until this point I was still on a mildly amused mood and shaking my head slightly booting every now and then to my 64bit Linux to fetch the stuff on floppies.

Then came the first damper. I tried to install F-Secure and it would not do it. I was like WTF. Again boot into Linux (I did not want to go online without firewall in Windows) - Google and I notice that there are only few haphazard alternatives for firewall and virusscanner that work for XP64. I got a demo version of one and went back to Windows. I connect and activate my Windows and start installing first updates. The updater starts having conflicts with my firewall and the whole thing goes apesh1t. After reboot I get the bluescreen. I boot in the safe mode and roll back the updates. I reboot and it works then try updating again and same thing -> blue screen. I decide now to stuff windows on the small corner of one of my remaining IDE drives and take the new S-ATA drive for Linux. I install Windows again and come to the point of activation. Yeah, you guessed it happily announced me that the code I am trying to offer is already in use, thank you. No, I did not call to M$, oh no. I removed the thing from my HD threw the disk into the deepest corner of my darkest and messiest closet and it's still there. I formated once more and installed w2k, which comes handy without this genuine advantage crappola. I nowadays boot very seldom to windows anymore even my gaming fever has let off and I have more time to my complaining wife.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.f19vs.se/fokker_now.jpg

josephs1959
12-10-2006, 05:51 PM
I have an Athlon 64 FX-25 processor 2.81 GHz. Microsoft Windows pro 64 OS. Never had a problem with it. I run IL-2 at it's max resolution and the game doesn't hiccup even over cities, which was a problem for me before.In fact ALL of my games are run at Max resolution,SH III, RED orchestra without any problems. I can't speak of the other apps. you've mentioned.

Copperhead310th
12-10-2006, 10:50 PM
here's my only question. and it taps into what bear was asking. If you were going to start building a new rig for SoW this week end from the ground up, and you wanted it to be a 64 bit system.....

Would it be beter to wait for Vista or go ahead with Xp64?

And if you go with XP64 and choose not to wait for Vista...do you think it will be upgradeable to Vista?

Like wise....can anyone recomend a 64bit Proceesor and Mobo. AMD preferably on the processor. Asus on the Mobo

i'm planning duel core ddr2 8gig ram (2 gig to start)
2 invidea cards, water cooling sytem, Audigy 4 Pro, w/ 2 Hard drives. one 750 gb & one 350gb. and a 650 power supply. all cramed in to a thermalke sunami dream case.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/ubisig.jpg
Former CO of 310thVFS, (Retired) now part time
190 jock & full time target drone for JG27
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//2006-02-23_012924_pilot11.gif Flying on line as JG27_Copperhead

|^^^^^^^^^^^^|
| JG27_Copperhead | '|""";.., ___.
|_..._...______===|= _|__|..., ] |
"(@ )'(@ )""""*|(@ )(@ )*****(@
"Keep on Truck'n!"

WOLFMondo
12-11-2006, 12:19 AM
Copperhead, if your gonna get a new system, right now Intel make the best dual core 64 bit chips. Something like the E6600 is a good chip and it beats even the best AM2's. I've not bought an Intel based system in years so not sure about what the mobos are like for them at the moment.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

Sergio_101
12-11-2006, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Copperhead, if your gonna get a new system, right now Intel make the best dual core 64 bit chips. Something like the E6600 is a good chip and it beats even the best AM2's. I've not bought an Intel based system in years so not sure about what the mobos are like for them at the moment.

Intel makes dual core 64 bit chips?
News to me.
But it appears to be a dual core 32 that supports 64 bit computing.
No matter, 32 bit has gone the way of the Dodo.
In a few years all those 32 bit machines we now use
will be gracing the local landfills.

Sergio<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

P-51s may not have won the war, but they did not loose it.
Loosing the war was left to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

josephs1959
12-11-2006, 03:45 PM
For what it's worth, I would wait on VISTA. only because of past issues of "new" software there always seems to be problems. Instead of shelling out From $100.00 for the VISTA home basic to $260 for the Vista ultimate and taking the chance on something with the eventual bugs to be worked out. In Maximum PC they'll have an upcomming article (FEB.issue)QUOTE-"10 Reasons you don't need Vista! we're not in a hurry to upgrade to Vista, you shouldn't be either!

Bearcat99
12-11-2006, 04:45 PM
I ordered XP64 for $68.... from here (http://www.viosoftware.com/index.php).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">It is easier to train a boy than to repair a man.</span>
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steve_v
12-11-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I ordered XP64 for $68.... from here (http://www.viosoftware.com/index.php).
You may just have made another sale for them. If they ask, I'll name you as a reference and maybe they'll send you a sweater just in time for xmas.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<center>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/The_Presz/natlchamp_logo.jpg

When you get to Magnum-PC.com (https://magnum-pc.com/Search/External/) tell 'em HawgDog sent you.

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Bearcat99
12-11-2006, 09:37 PM
Looks like a pretty good site dud'n it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW Kid... I have been told that the way to get around that is to boot with the MOBO disc in the drive first... set it to boot to scsi then it will laod the drivers and let you install to a SATA as a boot drive.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">It is easier to train a boy than to repair a man.</span>
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steve_v
12-12-2006, 06:08 PM
My thanks to everyones input, which made the decision an easy one. And also to BC, who found a great price.

I used you as a reference, and was allowed to pick from a list of complementary items to be sent. Hope you like the selection I made for Mrs. BC.

http://www.cdockpirates.com/images/C9001-lrg.jpg

Copperhead310th
12-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by steve_v:
My thanks to everyones input, which made the decision an easy one. And also to BC, who found a great price.

I used you as a reference, and was allowed to pick from a list of complementary items to be sent. Hope you like the selection I made for Mrs. BC.

http://www.cdockpirates.com/images/C9001-lrg.jpg

Ok Cue ZZ Top to cruise in with the roadster. lol<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/ubisig.jpg
Former CO of 310thVFS, (Retired) now part time
190 jock & full time target drone for JG27
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//2006-02-23_012924_pilot11.gif Flying on line as JG27_Copperhead

|^^^^^^^^^^^^|
| JG27_Copperhead | '|""";.., ___.
|_..._...______===|= _|__|..., ] |
"(@ )'(@ )""""*|(@ )(@ )*****(@
"Keep on Truck'n!"

Bearcat99
12-12-2006, 08:09 PM
Correct me if I am wrong... but I am thinking that XP64 will be to Vista what Win98 was to XP. XP was the first true 32bit OS from MS. 98 was an either or.... 16/32... XP64 will be a 32/64 OS while I think Vista will be a pure 64bit OS.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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<span class="ev_code_GREEN">It is easier to train a boy than to repair a man.</span>
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WOLFMondo
12-14-2006, 09:03 AM
Your wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I belive Vista comes in 32 and 64 bit as well. At least the old MSDN versions did.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

NetDaemon
12-14-2006, 01:06 PM
Indeed, think of Vista as XP 1.5 or more like XP with pretty 3D effects. Other than that, they`re pretty much the same.

So in the same vein, there will be stand alone 32bit Vista and stand alone 64bit Vista, just like there´s 32bit and 64bit XP now.

BTW, been using 64bit XP for about a year now as my main gaming OS and it rocks.

To the guy that said he wouldn´t use it for lack of antivirus and/or firewall 64bit apps, check out McAfee´s Enterprise suite, which includes all that and more.

So yeah, 64bits FTW!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

======================================
AMD64 X2 4400+ Dual Core Toledo, ASRock 939Dual SATA2, 2GB Corsair DDR400 Ram, ATI All-In-Wonder X800XT, 2x Hitachi 120GB SATAs in RAID1 mode, Antec TruePower II 550W PSU.

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Ugly_Kid
12-14-2006, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Looks like a pretty good site dud'n it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BTW Kid... I have been told that the way to get around that is to boot with the MOBO disc in the drive first... set it to boot to scsi then it will laod the drivers and let you install to a SATA as a boot drive.

Yeah, that was not the main headache apart from the fact that somebody is selling year 2006 an OS that does not support S-ATA. Like I said I got it installed and so on but run into problems later. MOBO disk did not have the 64bit drivers for windows - you won't even find them from ASUS site only 32bit ones - it took some real time to google. I believe I found the stuff via some AMD forum. Anyway even the driver search and so on was not the killer for me with 64bit XP. I was prepared for hardship with hardware (allthough I have selected carefully components that are supported by 64bit linux - WLAN and other problematic ones).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.f19vs.se/fokker_now.jpg

WOLFMondo
12-15-2006, 12:40 AM
The motherboard disc not having the sata drivers is down to the manufacturer not supplying them but you can always get them from the people who designed the chipset.

If you've got an Nforce based board you can just go to Nvidia.com and download all the various drivers you need for that chipset and completely ignore the board manufacturer since all they do its repackage the drivers. Its the same for most other chipsets.

I've now got 3 PC's at home with XP64 on them, they all installed fine and they all have SATA drives, my game PC has 2 SATA300 drives in RAID1 and took 30 minutes from inserting that floppy to being in Windows. Last time installed Fedora Core it too longer than that!

Its not that hard, put the drivers on the floppy, press F6 during the installation, install the drivers and your away. Everything worked straight out the box for me every time i've installed it. Granted its best to pick componets that do have 64bit drivers.

The only problem I ever had was swapping the floppy disc driver from one machine to the other. Cut fingers and frustration at the 70's technology http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

Ugly_Kid
12-15-2006, 10:09 AM
Once more: I got them effing drivers installed, k? It just surprised me that an OS year 2006 did not manage do it by itself!

The killer for me with this **** was lack of proper firewall software and the consequent conflicts with security updates after installing
Tiny or some other one + the stinky activation crappola<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.f19vs.se/fokker_now.jpg

Bearcat99
12-17-2006, 07:38 PM
WEll I got it in.. Im having a problem with the printer drivers though.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE> 332nd V.F.G. (http://www.geocities.com/bearcat99th/) [/list]
<span class="ev_code_GREEN">It is easier to train a boy than to repair a man.</span>
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