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View Full Version : Which of these Joystick Would you choose



lukenaskywiper
12-23-2005, 06:06 AM

Kuna15
12-23-2005, 06:09 AM
Logitech if you gotta choose from this two only.

carguy_
12-23-2005, 06:29 AM
Absolutely never take a Logitech joystick!It`s the most famous one on the forums for braking up too early or loosing centering.

If you can,go for Saitek.Good quality,good ergonomy.

Thrustmaster I have 2 sticks myself.Most comfortable sticks for the price IMO.Good materials,good quality,very good button positioning.The problem is that after like 2 years something is bound to go wrong.I`m very satisfied though.I don`t have to put out big $ and I have very good plane control.

ashley2005
12-23-2005, 07:04 AM
none of them and yes never go for logitech ..i used to have that joystick and boy did it suck ****** ..then i upgraded to a saitek x 52 and now im in my happy place http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

anasteksi
12-23-2005, 08:33 AM
i just bought a saitek evo force and it was worth of its price. works great and you can adjust everything. it's also very accurate and 10000 times better than my old logitech force 3d (1 year old). Here finland it cost 65" with posts.

Tully__
12-23-2005, 08:51 AM
Of those two I'd take the Thrustmaster, but if you're open to suggestions a Saitek Cyborg Evo is in the same price range or the Saitek X-52 is a much better featured stick. I've had the Thrustmaster Topgun Afterburner II (Fox II Pro with a seperate throttle) and currently have the Evo and the X-52. A housemate went through 3 logitechs in the time I was using the Thrustmaster, then used the thrustmaste throttle himself through another two Logitechs after I got another stick.

ddsflyer
12-23-2005, 11:54 AM
It's obvious that none of the above is the right choice, either CH or Saitek are the favorites of most people.

voyager_663rd
12-23-2005, 12:16 PM
NO NO NO --> logitech

I've recently obtained the x52 Saitek. Love it, smooth, responsive, the programming takes a bit getting used to but it's a really slick stick.

RS.Wedge
12-23-2005, 12:44 PM
I just ordered a CH Fighterstick. Im replacing my logitech stick (which has not given me any problems yet). I always wanted a quality stick without the price tag of a Cougar.

hobnail
12-23-2005, 12:59 PM
Neither, get a paper route and upgrade your choice to the X-52

Waldo.Pepper
12-23-2005, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Hobnail:
Neither, get a paper route and upgrade your choice to the X-52

Wise words from a wise man!

Kuna15
12-23-2005, 02:50 PM
OK I will edit my opinion and go to the majority; thrustmaster then. Just Logitech looked better visually to me (more buttons?). I never used any of that joysticks.

But I strongly advise you to go for Saitek's Cyborg EVO (non FFB, non wireless - just common version) if you look for joystick only.
CH stuff are best but they have the best price too.

steve_v
12-23-2005, 03:10 PM
You'll never regret that decision. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Originally posted by RS.Wedge:
I just ordered a CH Fighterstick. Im replacing my logitech stick (which has not given me any problems yet). I always wanted a quality stick without the price tag of a Cougar.

zoinksu52
12-23-2005, 06:03 PM
i have combatstick, throttle pro, and pedals from ch and they are great. great software along with a durable design. there is a mini-joystick on the throttle pro that works well for rudder control if you don't want to splurge for pedals.

http://www.chproducts.com/retail_flash/index.html

http://www.provantage.com/flGAMCONCHPU.htm
very good company to order from.

add a trackir4 and its a new game...er flightsim.

ElAurens
12-23-2005, 06:14 PM
CH.

Accept no substitutes.

Kocur_
12-24-2005, 05:44 AM
Not-Logitech. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

ytareh
12-24-2005, 11:09 AM
Sorry guys but I have to be the sole pro Logitech voice crying in the wilderness.In my opinion the Saitek's ergonomics/hand fit is soooooo bad -unless youre left handed, in which its just 'bad'-and their spring is soooooo floppy and limp that even if the Logitech Extreme 3d Pro had to be exchanged for a new one every few months(it did!!!) it is still the far superior of the two.

Rattler68
12-24-2005, 11:18 AM
For those of you decrying Logitech, I've had my Wingman Extreme for some 6-7 years or so now (began using it for flying WW2 Fighters!), and it still has zero problems! Losing center: bah! No way!

lukenaskywiper
12-24-2005, 11:31 AM
Thanks a lot!!!! Just bought Saitek Cyborg Evo!!!! hope works!!!! thanks again!!!

WOLFMondo
12-24-2005, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
CH.

Accept no substitutes.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Definately.

JG52Karaya-X
12-26-2005, 07:36 AM
I've had both of the mentioned joysticks and that's my experience:

First I had the TM Top Gun Fox2 Pro Shock (FFB) and it was AWESOME. Many, well placed buttons, good control feel, adjustable stick resistance, etc... very nice - after 3 years it finally broke down on me (throttle went useless and my rudder went berserk). Then I got myself a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro because the TM wasnt available anymore at my place - looked very good at first sight, lots and lots of buttons, very ergonomic... BUT after just 3-4 weeks the whole thing decentered itself and I couldn't do anything about it! I went through the whole warranty thing and got a replacement which died on me again after just a few weeks.

From my previous experience I though "Hey, why take a risk when you can go back to the TM" - ordered a normal Top Gun Fox2 Pro without FFB with a high expectancy - which would not be met! It turned out to be a nightmare, after just 2 weeks the WHOLE stick was done for. Applying the slightest force resulted in the plane going rollercoaster making precision flying impossible, then the throttle gave up and I sent the darned thing in... got a 2nd one - broke down after 3 weeks, similar problems - got the 3rd one, broke down after 5 weeks, same sh1t again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
In my desperation of getting a joystick that finally worked AND held more than just a couple of weeks I returned to the Logitech joystick and say what? It works, and it works fine,... I've got this joystick now for 5 month and it's sweet! No decentering, no nothing. The only drawbacks of the Logitech IMO are the following:

- needs a lot of force to be moved around in contrast to most (if not all) other joysticks
- rudder (especially since 4.02) is hypersensitive and needs special adjustments with deadband and sensitivity curve ingame

To me it seems you have to have quite a lot of luck when picking your joystick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Vipez-
12-26-2005, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
CH.

Accept no substitutes.



Definately. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Il'l second to this.. I have CH Combat Stick, says in the back made in 1993, bought it around christmas 1993, and even at this day it works wonderfully.. simply, I have much doubt, that Saitek or Logitech can produce joysticks wich last over 12 years in active service...

Pig_Mac
12-27-2005, 10:09 AM
I've been hooked on my MSffb2 stick for quite a while. I got a Hotas cougar for a good price from a mate (for playing F4:AF), but the Forcefeedback is too nice to put on a shelf, at least in Il2.

The lack of Track-IR makes it hard to use the Cougars throttle (and the cougar as button bay), since i mainly use my mouse to look around.

I've had a lot of logitech sticks and they all break up, or just gets wobbly really fast. I'm not gonna buy a logitech other then gamepads, until their quality changes, or i go senile.

Gamedec
12-28-2005, 04:02 AM
Hi, guys, I'm new. Very happy to be here. And i wish to argument about force feedback. I like it. Not only it makes joy to shiver when you fire, but most of all, it makes you "feel" the aeroplane. For example, when I exceed speed, i feel the plane shiver, when I pull too hard, I feel the wings protest, when I pull the gear I don't have to check wheter it's pulled, cause i felt it. Last but not least, when the wind is strong, i also can tell. So it is not true thaf force feedback is something not very important. In my opinion it adds a lot. Not only from the entertaining point of view. And, back to the topic, because of this, I decided to buy Saitek Cyborg Evo Force, not the model without "Force". I quit Logitech Strike Force 3D. You are right, guys. It looses centre just after calibration. Pity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Best regards

Sehm
12-28-2005, 02:21 PM
X-52 is a good choice indeed. Speaking of which, does anyone have a good profile for the x-52 for IL-2?

Dr...Watson
12-29-2005, 03:24 AM
CH Flightstick Pro and Pro Throttle.

Costs alot more, last you for ever though

Gamedec
12-29-2005, 09:21 AM
What is this "CH" anyway???

bogusheadbox
12-29-2005, 09:25 AM
x52 here.

Was one of the unlucky ones to receive the bung series. But they fixed it and paid for the postage as well.

It works perfect and i am very happy with it.

As far as i know. Saitek make excellent sticks that are moderate on the expensive side. But worth the money for all the functions it has.

But CH is another level all together...... and so is its price tag.

missiveus
12-29-2005, 09:57 AM
What is this "CH" anyway???
CH Products, manufacturers of a full line of flight controllers and arguably the best rudder pedals for the money.
I graduated from CH controllers, which performed very well for years, to the Thrustmaster Cougar. The TM HOTAS Cougar is the best controller I've ever used, period. And it will be the last controller I ever buy.

leitmotiv
12-29-2005, 04:31 PM
Using any of the Maddox line without force feedback is an absurdity. You cut yourself out of a great deal of the immersion. I have used Logitech FF joysticks for 1 1/2 years with tremendous satisfaction. As cunning and well designed as the other joysticks may be, their not having FF excludes them absolutely for me.

Gamedec
12-30-2005, 03:07 AM
leitmotiv, I fully agree. I recalled more facts concerning force feedback: you can FEEL you have landed. You can FEEL you have left the ground. You can FEEL the wings porotest when you roll too fast. It's just impossible to fly without force feedback. This is why I bought Saitek Cyborg Evo Force, not x52. Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ElAurens
12-30-2005, 05:15 AM
I used to fly with FFB, but I'd never go back.

A. Because the FFB sticks are, well, not as good as my CH.

B. Don't want the frame rate hit. (Yes, there is one).

C. It feels largely artificial to me.

D. None of the very best "pilots" in this sim use it. (I exclude myself from that list). Not one of the competitors at the tourney in China used FFB.

Gamedec
12-30-2005, 06:14 AM
A. - agreed. Alas. They are not as good. Pity. I'm waiting for sth like x52 WITH force feedback.

B. That's interesting. Well, not a big deal though.

C. That's very interesting. Don't know, never flew. But as far as I remember from books written by flyers, they DID feel the plane and forces pushing the stick?

D. I'm not surprised because force feedback impaires aiming, handlihg the plane, the wind makes the machine shiver, low speed makes it shiver. Why should they add something that lowers their performance? It's a sport isn't it? Why put on heavy shoes?

Worf101
12-30-2005, 08:51 AM
Had all sorts of Joysticks over the last 15 years. Been flying sims since "Their Finest Hour" from LucasArts. If you've the coin you can't do better than a Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS hookup with the Halls sensor mods and the Uber2NXT replacement gimbals. Hideously expensive, although the Cougar can be had cheaper these days and there's always used on ebay, but $200 plus for the stick and $500.00 plus for the mods is too dear for most.

Worf101 99th Pursuit Squadron. "Spit Fire"

neural_dream
12-30-2005, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Gamedec:
C. That's very interesting. Don't know, never flew. But as far as I remember from books written by flyers, they DID feel the plane and forces pushing the stick?
Was it the stick they were feeling or the seat?

dbillo
12-30-2005, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Sehm:
X-52 is a good choice indeed. Speaking of which, does anyone have a good profile for the x-52 for IL-2?
I have one I can send you! If you find any of Tully's posts, there is a link to his profile in them. Of course, profiles are very personal and you might find things you like in ours and other things you don't like, but at least it's a starting point to make your own. Mine is based on NOT having TrackIR, so one hat is devoted to view controls.

dbillo
12-30-2005, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
Was it the stick they were feeling or the seat?
Can anyone recommend a good FFB chair? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

codeseven7
12-30-2005, 10:45 AM
Sorry, I gotta 'stick'-up for Logitech, at least for the joystick I had. It was a Logitech Strike Force 3D. I had it for 3 years without a problem and really enjoyed it, great grip feel and FF effects. It wasn't till after years of use that it started to **** out. Now I have a CH Fighterstick and Pro Pedals, very pleased with them both. Solid, presice and well worth the investment for the known longevity of CH products.

However, my only regret is NO FF! I miss FF, I believe it does add alot of immersion (to any game). Whether it's the recoil of your fifty's or the buffeting before stall, it's pretty cool and I think it does allow you to 'fly' the airplane better. Since you cant have realistic seat of the pants reproduction, FF is the next best thing to the 'feel' of flight. I stopped by the CH factory (20min. from my house) and asked if they were ever going to produce a stick with FF, they said no, because the longevity of their joysticks would be cut in half! Oh well.

I also think it's true that most 'competetive flyers' dont use FF simply because not using it allows for more precise shooting (scoring), not because no FF 'adds' to the immersion of 'real' flight.

Gamedec
12-30-2005, 01:55 PM
Thx codeseven7 for support http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I also had Logitech Strike Force 3D for about 3 years. Now I know it's nothing strange it ceased to work properly. It gave me a lot of fun though. Unbelivable, but it still looks like new.

leitmotiv
12-31-2005, 11:29 AM
Virtual flying is artificial and force feedback is artificial but I would not give up either. I could care less about competition level shooting/scoring---I get a bigger kick out of fighting the buffet trying to pull a lead on a hot-climbing AI George in a P-38, and trying to hit it with a jerking battery pulling me off target. The satisfaction of hitting while striving against a representation of true physics is what it is all about as far as I am concerned.

Tully__
12-31-2005, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Gamedec:
Thx codeseven7 for support http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I also had Logitech Strike Force 3D for about 3 years. Now I know it's nothing strange it ceased to work properly. It gave me a lot of fun though. Unbelivable, but it still looks like new. Logitech's FFB sticks seem to be a little more reliable than the sticks without FFB. It always makes me wonder how a company that consistently makes such good mice can so consistently fail to make good quality entry level and midrange joysticks.

Gold_Monkey
12-31-2005, 03:41 PM
It will be a dark day when my MSFFB2 stops working, there is no replacement.

codeseven7
01-01-2006, 10:04 AM
Let me throw this one out there, who currently makes the best 'FF' stick? (had to say 'currently' otherwise I'm sure the MS FF Sidewinder would be considered the best).

Tully__
01-01-2006, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by codeseven7:
Let me throw this one out there, who currently makes the best 'FF' stick? (had to say 'currently' otherwise I'm sure the MS FF Sidewinder would be considered the best).
Saitek, Thrustmaster and Logitech all make them last time I checked. Currently Saitek seem to be most popular based on comments I've seen on the forums, but FFB sticks are possibly even more subject to user preference than their cheaper non-FFB cousins. Try them before buying if you can.

TheMoon7x
01-02-2006, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Gold_Monkey:
It will be a dark day when my MSFFB2 stops working, there is no replacement.

so i'm reading through this thread from the beginning thinking "man...how come noone has mentioned the MS FFB2??" i've got one and have had it for years now. i can't see ever having anything else.

dittos gold_monkey!

Tully__
01-03-2006, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by TheMoon7x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gold_Monkey:
It will be a dark day when my MSFFB2 stops working, there is no replacement.

so i'm reading through this thread from the beginning thinking "man...how come noone has mentioned the MS FFB2??" i've got one and have had it for years now. i can't see ever having anything else.

dittos gold_monkey! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Microsoft stopped making joysticks about 12-18 months back. New ones can't be found any more and good second hand ones are getting very scarce. On EBay they're selling for prices higher than the last of the new ones.

womenfly
01-04-2006, 07:39 AM
One with "Force-Feed Back" adds more to the sim ... IMO ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Ageless_Oldman
01-04-2006, 10:37 AM
I remember the first joystick I bought years ago, along with the original flight simulator game. I don't remember the manufacturer but it had the ability to disable the spring action for better flight control. Do any of today's sticks have that capability?

markiz26
01-04-2006, 07:29 PM
I had used Logitech Wingman for over two years and just recently bought CH hotas, all I can say is buy CH products. Very stable, precise, many optionswith three modes. You wont regret!

JadehawkII
01-04-2006, 08:12 PM
As a Proud new owner of a Saitek 52, I can say my stress level has gone down from what I used to have. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Flying, takoffs, cruise and yes even fighting is much better than my old Thrushmaster Pro which truly was worn out after much use playing my games. But one would think it should last more than 1 1/2 years before giving me the fits from hell. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Just got tired of adjusting, compensating for the stick and well this new Saitek 52 sure is a fresh breath of air! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I installed it, reset the flight controls in IL2 and flew really good off the bat.
Sure my wallet screamed and groaned, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif but hey, it was Christmas after all and don't I deserve it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sturm_Williger
01-05-2006, 06:43 AM
I have to stick up for Logitech as I owned a Digital 3D for about 5 years with no problems, then still passed it on to a friend when I moved up to X45.

It was value for money, but I couldn't go back now, not after the X45. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

mhunte84
01-05-2006, 08:37 AM
Hi,

I currently have a Saitek ST90, it's good but there are only 2 buttons on it, so not much space for configuring.

I want to get a Saitek Cyborg Evo but I don't know much about it or how much better it is than the one I already have. Does anybody have it? If so how good is it.

Thanks

EiZ0N
01-05-2006, 09:02 PM
I use the Cyborg 3D Force. Got it a few years ago and it's still going strong. Saitek don't make them anymore, so I have no idea how I'll replace it when it breaks.

I will never buy a non FFB stick again. Don't talk to me about CH build quality, I don't care if it doesn't have FFB!

I've no idea what the best FFB stick on the market is, but I'd like to know.

codeseven7
01-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Do we need to start a 'Best FF Stick' poll? Cause' I'd like to know too.

Gamedec
01-06-2006, 03:09 AM
Well, another experience concerning force feedback. Yesterday I was testing my new Saitek Cyborg Evo Force on Single Mission, Pacific Fighters. Storm. Jeeez. Handling machine against bursts of wind is one thing. Dogfighting is second (plane doesn't want to listen, stick goes away, moves on it's own!). And aiming is the third, very tricky, what is rather understandable. What a great satisfaction I had when I hit and destroyed my oponent fighting all the forces generated by force feedback!!! It was not over though. I had to go back and land. And belive me, it was also a great esperience demanding patience and nerves of steel. You'v got to fight the stick... And it's great! I can't imagine how it all looks without force feedback. And I don't want to http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bogusheadbox
01-06-2006, 06:21 AM
I would imagine that FF/back would provide greater immersion. I have never owned one. But would like to.

Unfortunatley, for a simmer that likes flying bombers and twins. A hotas stick was the first choice for adding immersion.

And the X52 with its whopping throttle makes me feel like i am flying a bigger plane.

Of course FF/Back would add a considerable amount to this immersion. But there is one problem.

What hotas stick with FF/Back comes at a reasonable price without killing the budget?

For me it had to be a compromise. Take a very nice Hotas stick with no FF/Back. Or take a FF/Back stick without hotas.

So i chose the hotas. I don't regret it. I just couldn't justify the prices of a good stick that has both.

I would like rudders as well. But again the price is unjustifiable.

Gamedec
01-06-2006, 09:26 AM
Bogusheadbox. Let me cheer you up. I don't even know of the fantastic sticks some guys here talk about. They are just not available in Poland (where I live). Rudder? Never seen anything like it. I'd like very much to have something that looks like x52 (available http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) with rudder, with force feedback. And, hopefully I would pay. But where? Where is it? And, what's more important: does it exist?

codeseven7
01-06-2006, 10:29 AM
Tully, your the resident authority on Joysticks, if someone told you that they wanted to buy the 'best' FF joystick, which one would you tell them to spend their money on?

Dexmeister
01-06-2006, 11:23 AM
As a die-hard Logitech advocate (most of the time), I just wanted to pipe in and tell people STAY AWAY FROM THEIR STICKS!!!!!

I had a FFB Wingman one long ago that I broke trying to splice the FFB to my chair, so no fault of Logitech on that one, but... I got the cordless, the buttons stopped working, they sent me a new one, same thing again so I literally ripped the stick off the base and threw the whole sorry POS in the garbage. Twice bitten = the last time...

Don't get me wrong, the wireless Logitech is a nice stick ergonomically and it has piles of buttons, but what good are they when they stop working?

Zero tolerance for sh!tty products.

Mind you Logitech makes great peripherals. I love my cordless trackball and keyboard, they're awesome... My Harmony remote is pretty cool too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

codeseven7
01-07-2006, 10:54 AM
Tully.....

Tully__
01-08-2006, 12:31 AM
I've never used FFB so can't be considered an expert, however I'd recommend a 2nd hand MS FFB2 based on community feedback. Failing that, a Thrusmaster Topgun Afterburner II FFB or a Saitek FFB Evo, your choice.

codeseven7
01-08-2006, 01:25 PM
Thanks Tully, I value your opinion.


codeseven

SweetMonkeyLuv
01-09-2006, 10:23 AM
My Saitek X45 is dying on me after 3+ years of faithful service.

Part of me wants the Cougar, part of me wants the next evolution of my beloved X45 (i.e. the X52), and part of me thinks I should get a FFB rig experience more realism.

Now, if only Saitek would purchase the Cougar line from Thrustmaster, add FFB to it, and drop the price by about 100 bucks....

Nigel_Woodman
01-09-2006, 11:47 AM
If you want force feedback, and I don't understand why you wouldn't, then the absolute best choice is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2. Get one off eBay. Do it now. You won't be sorry.

Davion1985
01-09-2006, 02:01 PM
If you guys want more 'realistic' Force Feedback try something like this:

Gaming Chair (http://search.ebay.com/Intensor-Gaming_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfstypeZ1QQmaxr ecordsreturnedZ300QQssPageNameZRC0022)

My friend had one way back when and it was pretty intense. I recall after a couple of years the vibration got a little weird. It's too bad the only place you can find them anymore is on eBay :[

codeseven7
01-10-2006, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Nigel_Woodman:
If you want force feedback, and I don't understand why you wouldn't, then the absolute best choice is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2. Get one off eBay. Do it now. You won't be sorry.

Seems to be a pretty popular stick, for those that have one. Aren't those sticks Gameport and not USB? If so, what problems do they have?

Mc_Wolf
01-10-2006, 08:47 PM
I recommand Logitech Wingman Force, please noted it's Wingman Force, not Force 3D. Wingman Force is the best one and got many awarded at that time, I bought one in 1999, just broken two months ago. So I buy another one from a friend of mine. Logitech have very good quality before but not now. After Wingman force, there are no any qualified and reliable Force feedback joystick from Logitech. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I also have X45, but I think it's better for modern flight, such as F4,Flanker, FS etc, many buttons. : )
http://www.lulays.com/jr/images/logitech/wingmanforce.gif

Wingman Interceptor, I didn't use it, but all users from my friends said it's also very good, accurate.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000JDFK.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
The two of the above joysticks are the best products form Logitech.
see Logitech Wingman inside, all of them are made with the good mould
http://www5.uuzone.com/images/upload/907000/mclan200509072311436_big.jpg

Broken here, but I can repair it, require to make metal arms to strengh it.
http://www5.uuzone.com/images/upload/907000/mclan2005090723114350_big.jpg

Nigel_Woodman
01-11-2006, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by codeseven7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nigel_Woodman:
If you want force feedback, and I don't understand why you wouldn't, then the absolute best choice is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2. Get one off eBay. Do it now. You won't be sorry.

Seems to be a pretty popular stick, for those that have one. Aren't those sticks Gameport and not USB? If so, what problems do they have? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The MSFFB2 is USB, and setup is very simple. Better still, utilities are available so that you can edit your IL-2 force feedback files to give whatever feel you want in any situation, (assuming you don't like the defaults).

SweetMonkeyLuv
01-11-2006, 09:44 AM
FYI to those in the US considering purchasing a Cougar HOTAS...

CompUSA & Thrustmaster seem to have a couple of rebate programs going this week. At CompUSA, its regularly $239. However, CompUSA is offering an instant $35 off, and Thrustmaster is offering an additional $25 off as a mail-in rebate. At $180 bucks, its still expensive, but certainly less so than it normally is.

EDIT: CompUSA's web shows it as "Coming Soon" at the moment, and both rebate programs end on 1/14/06.

codeseven7
01-12-2006, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Nigel_Woodman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by codeseven7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nigel_Woodman:
If you want force feedback, and I don't understand why you wouldn't, then the absolute best choice is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2. Get one off eBay. Do it now. You won't be sorry.

Seems to be a pretty popular stick, for those that have one. Aren't those sticks Gameport and not USB? If so, what problems do they have? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The MSFFB2 is USB, and setup is very simple. Better still, utilities are available so that you can edit your IL-2 force feedback files to give whatever feel you want in any situation, (assuming you don't like the defaults). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Nigel, was it available in 'both' USB and Gameport? The reason I ask is, from this Google search these available Sidewinders look as though they are all Gameport and need a USB 'adapter'.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/li...423?%5Fencoding=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/B00002JXBD/all/ref=dp_olp_2/103-5648090-8749423?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

SweetMonkeyLuv
01-12-2006, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by codeseven7:

Hi Nigel, was it available in 'both' USB and Gameport? The reason I ask is, from this Google search these available Sidewinders look as though they are all Gameport and need a USB 'adapter'.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/li...423?%5Fencoding=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/B00002JXBD/all/ref=dp_olp_2/103-5648090-8749423?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

I believe the original Sidewinder Force Feedback was Gameport-only, but the Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 was available in USB.

codeseven7
01-12-2006, 03:10 PM
Thanks

SweetMonkeyLuv
01-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Incidentally, I made up my mind to purchase a Cougar, and picked one up on the way home from work today. 6 hours of playing, tweaking, and reading CougarWorld, I've decided its just not for me. I'm just not willing to invest the necessery time/money/effort it would take to take this stick from being good to the best thing available. Instead, I'm taking it back to the store tomorrow in favor of a Saitek X52, which I know will never be as good as a fully modded Cougar, but is better than an unmodded one.

Worf101
01-13-2006, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by SweetMonkeyLuv:
Incidentally, I made up my mind to purchase a Cougar, and picked one up on the way home from work today. 6 hours of playing, tweaking, and reading CougarWorld, I've decided its just not for me. I'm just not willing to invest the necessery time/money/effort it would take to take this stick from being good to the best thing available. Instead, I'm taking it back to the store tomorrow in favor of a Saitek X52, which I know will never be as good as a fully modded Cougar, but is better than an unmodded one.

Interesting decision you make. I had a Saitek Evo, then in a fit of Ebayitis bought a Cougar. Flew it unmodded for 2 years before saving up enough money to mod it this past year. Best money I've spent on this hobby in years. Maybe not as essential or revolutionary as TrackIR but pretty darn close.

Worf101 99th Pursuit Squadron, 332nd Volunteer Fighter Group, Virtual Tuskegee Airmen. "Spit Fire"

SweetMonkeyLuv
01-13-2006, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Worf101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SweetMonkeyLuv:
Incidentally, I made up my mind to purchase a Cougar, and picked one up on the way home from work today. 6 hours of playing, tweaking, and reading CougarWorld, I've decided its just not for me. I'm just not willing to invest the necessery time/money/effort it would take to take this stick from being good to the best thing available. Instead, I'm taking it back to the store tomorrow in favor of a Saitek X52, which I know will never be as good as a fully modded Cougar, but is better than an unmodded one.

Interesting decision you make. I had a Saitek Evo, then in a fit of Ebayitis bought a Cougar. Flew it unmodded for 2 years before saving up enough money to mod it this past year. Best money I've spent on this hobby in years. Maybe not as essential or revolutionary as TrackIR but pretty darn close.

Worf101 99th Pursuit Squadron, 332nd Volunteer Fighter Group, Virtual Tuskegee Airmen. "Spit Fire" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the end, I think the Cougar was just too **** heavy to me (in the axes traverse). I've read that some folks take some of the tension out of the spring, but thats really frowned on since it shortens the life of the stick. Also, mine seemed to have an unusually large amount of center-play, too, though I hear thats pretty much par for the course with that stick.

The X52 does feel & look like a toy in comparison. while the Cougar is notoriously heavy in stick movement, the x52 is notoriously light. Still, I can easily add tension to it by putting a washer under the spring coil.

I'll prolly end up wearing it down & out in another 3 years, just as I did my X45. But the way I look at it, when I buy that 2nd X52, I'll be about even on what I'd have spent on the Cougar.

codeseven7
01-14-2006, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by SweetMonkeyLuv:
Incidentally, I made up my mind to purchase a Cougar, and picked one up on the way home from work today. 6 hours of playing, tweaking, and reading CougarWorld, I've decided its just not for me. I'm just not willing to invest the necessery time/money/effort it would take to take this stick from being good to the best thing available. Instead, I'm taking it back to the store tomorrow in favor of a Saitek X52, which I know will never be as good as a fully modded Cougar, but is better than an unmodded one.

What do you guys mean buy 'modding' the Cougar?