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View Full Version : Lilya Litvyak - the White Rose of Stalingrad-Need Info



Copperhead310th
12-08-2004, 07:08 PM
Any one Have any info on Lilya? i can find plenty of information but only 1 picture of her.
i'm looking for some photo's in any even exist other than this one:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/litvak2.jpg

Also any photo's or artistic renditions of her Yak-1 would be very nice to have to.

Any detailed information about her personal background would also be very nice. Names of family members (mother/Father/ brothers/ sisters) place of birth, where she grew up any little detail that can be found.
Even if it's in Russain. I'll find someone to translate it. Even if i have to pay a professional translator.

thanks.

R_Mutt
12-08-2004, 07:22 PM
heres a couple pics

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/litvak/litvak.htm

JV-44
12-08-2004, 08:02 PM
Try these,
http://www.el-mundo.es/magazine/2002/122/1011962163.html

http://www.thaiwave.com/hwelte/

http://www.motionmodels.com/custom/mmc-381.jpg

http://pratt.edu/~rsilva/litvyak.htm

http://pratt.edu/~rsilva/aircraft.htm

http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/litviak.html

Semper Fi
Nick

LeadSpitter_
12-08-2004, 08:54 PM
I have a book on the night witches I need to scan some photos for you

wayno7777
12-08-2004, 08:56 PM
I think Boosher has a good amount of info on her.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Lilyalitvyak_a.jpg

Copperhead310th
12-08-2004, 09:32 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifYep Good old Boosher. the il-2 comunity 1 man encyclopieda britanica! lol i have his entire archive. Thanks Boosh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Still there is information missing like family names, childhood home, birthplace. Vital stuff.

Lead i'll take anything on Lily you have.
send it here please:
copperhead@310thvfs.com

woofiedog
12-09-2004, 02:24 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gifYou might want to check this site CopperHead2310th.
It has a copyright date of 2004 and the writer name is Cat.

PBNA-Boosher
12-09-2004, 05:04 AM
I've got plenty more where that came from....

Copperhead310th
12-09-2004, 06:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woofiedog:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gifYou might want to check this site CopperHead2310th.
It has a copyright date of 2004 and the writer name is Cat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Woofie there's no link. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Boosher i'll take every thing you have.

woofiedog
12-09-2004, 06:12 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Oh... sorry about that... I was at work and something came up.
Here is the Link
http://www.simhq.com/_air/PDF/air_078print.pdf

And here is something I found about the writter
http://www.simhq.com/_aboutus/cat.html

joeap
12-09-2004, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wayno7777:
I think Boosher has a good amount of info on her.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Lilyalitvyak_a.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd have loved to have her in my cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

PBNA-Boosher
12-09-2004, 03:18 PM
Joeap, there's a story behind that:

She'd have slapped you, then shot at you. You didn't mess with Lilya. She had her man, and he was taken from her. So she did everything she could to reunite herself with him, finally succeeding on August 1st, 1943.

mllaneza
12-09-2004, 03:30 PM
One of the great wartime romantic tragedies.

leadbaloon
12-10-2004, 02:22 AM
Boosher,

Is there any chance of you sending some of your information about Lilya to me aswell? I'd love to know more about her short life.

Also, I'd really like a copy of the picture of Lilya that wayno7777 has posted up there, but can't save it in a format that I can open in Photoshop, could anyone send me a copy in jpeg format, or tell me how I can take a screenshot of whatever's on my screen. I'd like to do a painting of her, beautiful yet tragic.

Thanks

Oh, my e-mail addy is gmccorry@hotmail.com, or I can be contacted through my painting website http://www.garethmccorry.co.uk/, where any e-mail is less likely to be lost in a sea of spam.

Thanks again.

civildog
12-10-2004, 03:05 AM
If you are into this sort of thing (Like I am, with my ever expanding kits.) Accurate Miniatures makes an absolutely beautiful kit of Lilya's plane. It's available here for a good price:
www.greatmodels.com (http://www.greatmodels.com)

The kit number is ami3424. They make the best IL2M3 on the market, too. Mine has the markings for Pavlov's, but I took artistic license and added the 37mm guns - they just look better IMHO. Warriors makes a set of stormovik pilots that look a lot like Pavlov and his gunner, judging by the historical photo, but I have yet to find one of Litvak to pose with her Yak. If anyone finds one let me know.

joeap
12-10-2004, 03:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Joeap, there's a story behind that:

She'd have slapped you, then shot at you. You didn't mess with Lilya. She had her man, and he was taken from her. So she did everything she could to reunite herself with him, finally succeeding on August 1st, 1943. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well it was meant to be funny, she was a pretty pilot. Sorry about her tragedy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Copperhead310th
12-10-2004, 12:16 PM
Bump.

So far so good.

Still doing research for the Screenplay.
have a few books to read first.

1. Night Withces
2. A Dance with Death.

working an hour a day i should have a good woirking 1st draft in about 3 months or so.
(hopefully i'll be able to work an hour a day after i go back to my real job. )

PBNA-Boosher
12-10-2004, 12:44 PM
Several of the girls whose interviews are in "A Dance With Death" say that the book "Night Witches" is fiction. It may be a good depiction of the group, and the names are real, but all actions that happen in that story are fictional.

BTW, leadballoon, check your e-mail inbox.

Civildog, I absolutely agree with you. Accurate Minis Yak-1 is great! I'll have to check into the IL2-M3 tho, thanks for the heads up.

woofiedog
12-10-2004, 01:34 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Sounds like a Very Interesting Project Copperhead310th.
I'll be watching for it's release.
Wasn't there talk about adding Russian Female Radio Voices to the Game a while back?

Fliegeroffizier
12-10-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by leadbaloon:
...
Also, I'd really like a copy of the picture of Lilya that wayno7777 has posted up there, but can't save it in a format that I can open in Photoshop, could anyone send me a copy in jpeg format, ...Thanks again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just sent the Jpeg to your hotmail address.

MaxMhz
12-10-2004, 04:48 PM
Ah well -

I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS

No one mentioned :

http://www.hinttech.com/~f16/downloadshinttech/film/il2/TheWhiteRoseofStalingrad_highres-st.zip

DONT CLICK - it's allmost dead lol

...but then - you DO have to get this -
be civil - dont use a download accelerator - just wait http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

and NO it's not mine... AT ALL

But it's GREAT

GVD (I'm from NL) - can't forgive myself either - i'ts ST_Pawnee again ...

Ah that solo flight ....

and I know - "we have moved to"
www.silvertriggers.tk (http://www.silvertriggers.tk) <- but that's dead too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Copperhead310th
12-10-2004, 06:38 PM
So far i have today compleated the 1st draft Prime Character list. Still missing the 1st names of family members.

have 1st draft if rough time line of all the major events in her life.

"A Dance with Death" is now on it's way to my door. I think i'll pass on "Night Withces". i doub't it has any pertantant information on Liliya indepth. Besides Nora Google actually went to Russia several times and interviewed a great deal of ppl in writing "Dance with Death".
An economical expenditure i cannot aford to undertake i'm afraid. Not on a 1st script.
I've put my other book "Breanna's Lyric" on hold for the moment with about 2 1/2 chapters left. it's only a collection of poetry i've written over the years so i can pick that up at any time. IMO this is a much more important writing prodject. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for adding the female voices....we can always email Oleg and inquire. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

310th Falcon
12-10-2004, 06:49 PM
MaxMhz wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>GVD (I'm from NL) - can't forgive myself either - it's ST_Pawnee again ...
Ah that solo flight ....
and I know - "we have moved to"
www.silvertriggers.tk (http://www.silvertriggers.tk) <- but that's dead too <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pawnee made that one more then a year ago and is one of his first movies.

Silver Tiggers site is undergoing heavy construction changes, and the "main" ST squad
will be the aerobatic squad, and then the combat-squad section will be linked from the
main site.
The new site is up, all our movies will be easily reachable again! New movies will come!
Link:
http://www.silvertriggers.com/aero-index2.htm


Best Regards

Copperhead310th
12-10-2004, 06:54 PM
Hey Falcon...
when you get a chance i'd like a word with you on the TS bro.
thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

civildog
12-10-2004, 07:04 PM
A most excellent historical fiction is "The Last Citadel."

It covers the entire Kursk campaign by following the stories of a Spanish SS Tiger commander with Das Reich, a father/son T34-76 crew/ and....a great female flyer who is a NightWitch. The scenes with her squadron being hunted by a night flying 109 as they bomb a depot in their biplanes is nail-biting. She's also the daughter of the T34 driver..an old Cossack. Great book and very accurate.

I may be wrong, though, but I've never read anything about the Russians calling the female night flyers "Night Witches", that it was instead an epithet from the Germans... "NachtHexen"

David Robbins wrote the book. He also did "War of the Rats" which is about the sniper dueling and infantry battles of Stalingrad.

MaxMhz
12-10-2004, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 310th Falcon:
MaxMhz wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>GVD (I'm from NL) - can't forgive myself either - it's ST_Pawnee again ...
Ah that solo flight ....
and I know - "we have moved to"
http://www.silvertriggers.tk <- but that's dead too <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pawnee made that one more then a year ago and is one of his first movies.

Silver Tiggers site is undergoing heavy construction changes, and the "main" ST squad
will be the aerobatic squad, and then the combat-squad section will be linked from the
main site.
The new site is up, all our movies will be easily reachable again! New movies will come!
Link:
http://www.silvertriggers.com/aero-index2.htm


Best Regards <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not the fastest...
hmmm not me either...
http://www.hinttech.com/%7Ef16/downloadshinttech/film/il2/Solo-show_highres3.zip

was the first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif THANX 4 THE LINK
U guys are GrReAT !!!

...can't ya do a google thing or something?
...ST/Silver T(R)iggers (the "Tiggers" is the Disney thing tigger-movie thats lol) but hey I dont care it's the story aint it... S~ 2 lilya

PBNA-Boosher
12-10-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wasn't there talk about adding Russian Female Radio Voices to the Game a while back? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that was my topic. Can't find anyone willing to do it. Oleg said if we can accomplish it he'll add in the female squadrons.

Oh, and civildog, you're right. The Germans were the ones who dubbed the 588th NBAP/46th GvNBAP the "Night Witches" or "Nachthexen."

Copperhead310th
12-10-2004, 11:29 PM
As best as i can piece together at the moment.... here is the time line of major events in her life. Bare with me this is a WIP.

Time line- Life of Liliya Litvyak

1921: Born: August 18, 1921 in Moscow, Russia

1936: Secretly joins 'Kalininskiy' Aeroclub - @ age 14

1937: arrived to 'Khersonskoya' Aviation School. @ age 15

1937: returned to 'Kalininskiy' Aeroclub, as a flight instructor. Trained 45 pilots before the war beagn.

1937: Father killed by Stalinists
- Her age then 15

1941: October 1941 Applies to the female special Aviation Group No. 122 under command of Marina Raskova.

1941: October 1941: Accepted into the female special Aviation Group No. 122

1941: Trained @ Engels flight School w/ Female Special Aviation Group No. 122 Graduated with rank of SR. Sgt

1942: Assigned to 586th AIP. Served from Jan. to Aug. Flying mostly defensive missions.

1942: (Sept.) Sent to Stallingrad front. Assigned to 286th Fighter Division (IAD)-Male Squadron.

1942: (Sept.13th) Scores 1st 2 Kills (JU-88€s) while flying as wingman for the Regimental Commander. This was only her 2nd combat sortie. Flying: La-5

1942: (Sept. 27th) Scores 3rd kill: Ju-88 While flying La-5.

1943: (late Jan.) Transferred to Kotiel'nikovo airfield near Stalingrad. Assigned to 296th IAP with best friend Yekaterina Budianova.

1943: (Feb. 11th) Scores her 3rd & 4th Kill- 1 Ju-88 & 1 FW-190A (shared) while flying Yak-1

1943: (Feb. 17th) Awarded The Order of the Red Banner.

1943: (Feb. 19th) Promoted to Jr. Lt.

1943: (Late Feb/ Early March) Promoted to Sr. Lt.

1943: (March 1st) Scores 2 more kills (#€s 5 & 6)- 1 Ju-88 & 1 FW-190A- Flying Yak-1

1943: (March 15th) Scores 2 kills (#€s 7 & 8) Both Ju-88€s- Injured by BF-109. RTB€s.

1943: (March 22nd ) Wounded in combat by BF-109. Sent to Hospital in Moscow to recover.
Visits Mother. Time away from unit: Approximately 1 month. Fiancé & fellow Soviet Ace Alexei Salomatin killed while she is away in Moscow recovering.

1943: (early May) Returns to front line duty. 296th IAP renamed to 73rd Guards Regiment.

1943: (May 5th) Scores kill number 9- BF-109

1943: (May 7th) Badly Damages 1 BF-109. German pilot escapes. NO Kills this day.

1943: (May 31st) Destroys German Observation balloon over front lines. Now flying Yak-1B

1943: (July 16th) Wounded in combat. Aircraft rendered unflyable. Crash landed behind enemy lines and retuned to base on foot while evading German forces. Best Friend Katya Budanova is killed. Scores 2 kills- 1 Ju-88& 1 BF-109. Bf-109 destroyed €œtaran" or ramming attack. Score card now at: 10 Confirmed kills, 1 shared & 1 balloon.

1943: (July 18th) Wounded in combat. Crash landed behind enemy lines. Rescued by unknown pilot. Retuned to base.

1943: (July 19th) Scores another kill. 1 BF-109. Score 11 kills.

1943: (Aug. 1st) Flies 3 sorties this day. Killing 2 B-109€s. Lilya€s Kill board sits at 13. Her forth mission of the day was a bomber escourt mission escorting Sturmoviks to their targets near Orel.
While in the process they were serching for enemy bombers and targets of opportunity. Lilya's mission that day was on the front line, looking for enemy bombers and ten miles from the front they ran into a large group. Ivan Borisenko, who was flying with Lilya on that mission wrote later to Vera Tilomerva, the commissar of the women's fighter regiment: "Lilya just didn't see the Messerschmitt 109's flying cover for the German bombers. A pair of them dived on her and when she did see them she turned to meet them. Then they all disappeared behind a cloud." Through a gap in the cloud he saw Lilya's luck had run out, no one saw her aircraft crash. Witnesses said that the group of BF-109€s Around 8 of them singled Lilya out. It finally took all 8 if them to bring down her Yak with her killing 2 of them in the process.

This is a first draft time line. in screenwriting it is often nessesary to write a time line, this help the write darw out a mental "story board". and plane out in what order the events should occure or if there is an event to leave out of the story line.

leadbaloon
12-11-2004, 04:01 AM
Boosher & Fliezgeroffizier,

Thanks a million.

Copperhead,

The screenplay sounds like a great idea, I wish you luck with it. I was just sitting here looking through the stuff Boosher sent me and my wife came in and looked over my shoulder and asked what I was looking at. I told her who Lilya was and what she went through. For once her eyes didn't glaze over at yet another reference to WW2 aircraft peppering her day. She just said, "Someone ought to make a film about her..."

PBNA-Boosher
12-11-2004, 05:56 AM
No problem Leadbaloon. And you're wife will get her wish, with Copperhead's screenplay AND the documentary I'm working on, something good ought to come out of them.

A few problems:

Her first kill in combat was a Bf-109, the second was a Ju-88.
March 22nd, 1943: wounded in combat, yes, but destroys a Ju-88 first, and manages to destroy a 2nd Ju-88 even after she is wounded, then comes back to base and passes out after she lands. She is sent to the hospital, but refuses to take time off and go see her mother. She returns to combat duty and is on the flight line in Readiness one when heir Fiance, Salomatin, is killed in a training exercise.

Early May 1943 was the transfer to Yak-1b's.

The German Observation balloon was very important. Many pilots had lost their lives trying to destroy it. Lilya took it apart in a little less than 30 seconds of combat.

August 1st: Her final sortie was her 3rd sortie. the 2 bf-109's she destroys are the ones she kills in the final fight.

woofiedog
12-11-2004, 06:14 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gifPBNA-Boosher... Adding the Female pilots would complete a important missing part of IL-2.
Also there is a number of Women flying in IL-2... as the forum reflects.
This would be Very Good for all sides... players and UBI.
Also it should be remebered that US Female pilots flew across the Atlantic and Pacific delievering New Aircraft to the Combat Areas. And a few of these Pilots had Enemy Kills.

Copperhead310th
12-11-2004, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
No problem Leadbaloon. And you're wife will get her wish, with Copperhead's screenplay AND the documentary I'm working on, something good ought to come out of them.

A few problems:

Her first kill in combat was a Bf-109, the second was a Ju-88.
March 22nd, 1943: wounded in combat, yes, but destroys a Ju-88 first, and manages to destroy a 2nd Ju-88 even after she is wounded, then comes back to base and passes out after she lands. She is sent to the hospital, but refuses to take time off and go see her mother. She returns to combat duty and is on the flight line in Readiness one when heir Fiance, Salomatin, is killed in a training exercise.

Early May 1943 was the transfer to Yak-1b's.

The German Observation balloon was very important. Many pilots had lost their lives trying to destroy it. Lilya took it apart in a little less than 30 seconds of combat.

August 1st: Her final sortie was her 3rd sortie. the 2 bf-109's she destroys are the ones she kills in the final fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of the things i knew and didn't put in the time line. Some things i didn't know and will make note of. Please keep in mind that i'm gathering information from several differnt sources....and it would be foolhearty indeed for me to rely simply on one source of information alone. Once this is done and i'm possitive i have gatherd enough information I'l begin checking my facts as much as possible.
this is "Based on a true story" meaning basic facts must be as correct as is possible, yet there still needs to be room for artistic interpritation....or else you'll just be reading a newspaper artical and not a screenplay.

Also keep in mind that there is some confution in the story. as difernt sources have omitted certian facts, or 1 source has some information that another one does not. And there in lies an opertunity for creative conjecture. One question that should be asked is what was this person like? the only ones that can answer that quetio are the ppl in her life that new her best. So we go back and read what they have had to say about her. her personality, demenor, ect.
from those thing you begin to create a charater.
Hmmm 2 paragraphs here...time i should have been devoting to reaserch & the script. lol