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BiscuitKnight
08-27-2006, 02:55 AM
Since I first bought Il-2FB years ago, and was shot down in an I-16 Type 18 over Leningrad by a merciless Bf-110, I've wanted to fly this type. I finally managed to get FB+AEP+PF, and so the Bf-110G2 (where are the earlier models? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif) but after a few hours flying in it, I've noticed some behaviour I can't account for:

In most dives, it easily pulls out at any speed, but several times I've been diving and found the controls aren't responding normally. The speed this happens at is about 450KPH+, but at higher speeds such as 600KPH, the plane has handled normal, and it doesn't happen every time I've diving at around 450KPH. Does anyone know why this is happening?

Another example: I was strafing a Red Army Field HQ, I'd made a pass, banked about 70 degrees (I know, it bleeds excessive energy, but I was impatient to finish the HQ, rather than maintain sensible amounts of energy, and I was getting about 320-50KPH either end of my runs, so I figured I was fine), came about a bit sharper than I'd usually do, but suddenly the plane wasn't responding properly: it felt like it was being dragged by the inner wing, around the outside. I have no idea what would cause the plane to drag around like this: it wasn't a stall or spin, I had sufficient airspeed I thought (the turn was completed and I was rolling out of it at about 250KPH while the nose was dropping to hit the targets - usually I'd have about 320KPH by the time I was firing) but the plane was just dragged around, when I tried to bank out it took more than usual force, then turned back into the bank, and when I tried to apply rudder it just slewed back harder, and pitching up was working very slowly. I was able to recover and bellied into a ridge, though I think an extra foot would have given me sufficient time to recover.

Other than that, I get weird behaviour where the plane won't respond at normal speed. Anyone know why or how to counteract it?

FoolTrottel
08-27-2006, 05:13 AM
In most dives, it easily pulls out at any speed, but several times I've been diving and found the controls aren't responding normally.

Can't say I've seen/felt this happen...

What loadout are you using when this occurs?


it felt like it was being dragged by the inner wing, around the outside.

(Not really sure I understand what exactly is happening here, must be me... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )
Too high an angle of attack? And again: What loadout?

The only thing that comes to my mind is: Loadout!
And differences in behaviour, when (fully) loaded vs. unloaded...

Have fun!

BiscuitKnight
08-27-2006, 05:19 AM
Dives are having just dropped bombs - sometimes with still four of the smallest German bombs (SC25?) other times with everything gone. It's not behaving like flying with extra weight, it's just a weird effect whereby sometimes it handles like the elevator controls are damaged. The dives I've recovered from, it stopped acting up once I was level again.

About the other one: imagine the plane is pulling towards the left wing, that is, it's trying to circle around it. At the same time, it was nose down and responding slowly, again like when elevators are damaged and respond only slowly, except its all controls. Loadout was the 3.7mm gunpod. Again, it's a sporadic change in flight characteristics that doesn't seem to be caused by loadout.

FoolTrottel
08-27-2006, 05:47 AM
Weird indeed...

Keep an eye on this thread:
"Murmansk to Morocco" campaign- out now!! (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50910533/m/8071074374?r=8071074374#8071074374)

Maybe ask there too?

JtD
08-27-2006, 06:03 AM
That's an odd behaviour. Maybe you have a track with it happening? Can't imagine anything just from reading your post...

WWSensei
08-27-2006, 06:47 AM
I fly the bf110 on war Clouds all the time. the behavior you are describing can happen if you left bombs on board. By any chance did you have ordinance and unlimited ammo? If so, then you may have been experiencing the effects of an extra 1000kg or so of weight throwing off your cg...

PBNA-Boosher
08-27-2006, 07:23 AM
Make sure both your engines are selected and at the same power setting, prop pitch setting, etc.... That may take care of the awkward flying. I've no way to account for the problem with pitching, although maybe you should adjust your joystick settings, see if that works.

VW-IceFire
08-27-2006, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
In most dives, it easily pulls out at any speed, but several times I've been diving and found the controls aren't responding normally. The speed this happens at is about 450KPH+, but at higher speeds such as 600KPH, the plane has handled normal, and it doesn't happen every time I've diving at around 450KPH. Does anyone know why this is happening?

I suspect that this may be due to varrying trim settings prior to the dive. The Bf110 does get a heavy elevator in dives (not like the 109 but it still does) and it will become less responsive. If you have a higher trim setting prior to the dive it may make it easier to pull out...and another time the setting is such that it makes it harder to pull out.

Is the plane porepoising (sp?) when this happens? That is to say that suddenly the nose is starting to go down instead of up as speed increases?



Another example: I was strafing a Red Army Field HQ, I'd made a pass, banked about 70 degrees (I know, it bleeds excessive energy, but I was impatient to finish the HQ, rather than maintain sensible amounts of energy, and I was getting about 320-50KPH either end of my runs, so I figured I was fine), came about a bit sharper than I'd usually do, but suddenly the plane wasn't responding properly: it felt like it was being dragged by the inner wing, around the outside. I have no idea what would cause the plane to drag around like this: it wasn't a stall or spin, I had sufficient airspeed I thought (the turn was completed and I was rolling out of it at about 250KPH while the nose was dropping to hit the targets - usually I'd have about 320KPH by the time I was firing) but the plane was just dragged around, when I tried to bank out it took more than usual force, then turned back into the bank, and when I tried to apply rudder it just slewed back harder, and pitching up was working very slowly. I was able to recover and bellied into a ridge, though I think an extra foot would have given me sufficient time to recover.
You have stalled it infact from the description. A stall can happen at any speed...not just low speed. You've probably exceeded the angle of attack on one of the wings while the other one is still providing some lift so you feel like the plane is dragging you around (which it is) but your airspeed and in part the design of the 110 has prevented a full departure.

I find that you want to avoid very sudden movements in the 110. I don't have alot of flying experience in it but I've noticed that you will get high speed stalls from time to time and they can be moderate to nasty in intensity. Not obvious like the FW190s high speed stall (more of a violent flop) but still there.

It also sounds like you may have some problems with your joystick spiking or maybe some bad input settings.

WWMaxGunz
08-27-2006, 08:12 AM
Might be a good idea to test outside of battle conditions, 1 plane, no defensive AA and
as small and empty a map as you can get by with just to cut external factors out.
That is, if you really want to find more out. And then if you can set up a repeatable
condition, make the ntrk.

Beyond that, what is 'proper'? Are you in fact coordinated in those turns because slip
and slide can be as screwey or screwier than a bit of stall. Run wingtip smoke when you
make the track and view external on those.

Jaws2002
08-27-2006, 08:27 AM
It could also have been bad weather and had turbulence at lower altitudes.

BiscuitKnight
08-28-2006, 03:46 AM
Thanks guys, this has helped me a lot.

In reply to a few of you: I'm playing on complete difficulty, except for External Views, Speed Bar and Map Icons/Path. I'd like to use the gauges, but I can't read them unless I'm on Gunsight view and looking down with the POV switch, which means the top row of gauges can only be viewed if I use the mouse. I haven't given it much thought as I'm satisfied with the difficulty as it is. I left external views and map icons on for a contrast to my Russian Fighter campain which is on full, save speed bar.

So, it's not unlimited bombs, and it's also responding slower than if it was bearing bombs. I mean really, really slowly, though above the rate of pitch when elevators are shot away.

PBNA Booster: I'm on Complex Engine Management, but I can only change the radiator. I thought it must have a constant speed prop and automatic supercharger and mixture? I can change these settings on other planes, so it's not unmapped keys, plus I don't overspeed in dives or anything.

IRT Ice Fire:

Uh... how do I put this. I never use trim. Ever. And I mean ever. I guess it's n00by, but I just stick to defaults and live that way. I only really learned to fly Il-2 by trial and error, coupled with reading the CEM guide on Airwarfare.com and more trial and error from there. Never felt the need for trim. So unless trim is adjusting itself, which I don't think is possible, this isn't the case.

About the other event: that sounds right, I thought it might be something to do with one wing stalling, but I'm not savvy enough with all that stuff to identify it properly.

About sudden movements: I'm very gentle when flying, I can't imagine wrenching the stick for any reason other than wanting to spin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the help, I do some more work on it. But remember that it's sporadic, so it's hard to document. Thanks guys.

Enforcer572005
08-28-2006, 07:24 AM
You really do need to learn to use trim. Your stick probably has some trim wheels, as the changing speeds etc will result in excessive control input that is robbing you of some performance. You may just need to trim out some of the aileron or elevator tendancies.

ive flown several misns in the new 110 cmpn (that i highly recomend btw), and IVe not noticed anything that i cant correct with a lttle trim input. Ive got a few hrs of flight time (before i got diabetes and had to give it up back in days when diabetics couldnt fly), and I had to use trim quite a bit-it's just one of your controls. Not using it would be like not using your rudder and relying on some auto function.

I think the lack of using trim on a plane with controls that can get heavy is what may be causing your problem. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

WWSensei
08-28-2006, 08:53 AM
They are right about trim. Especially in the 110. With both engines turning the same direction you need to apply right trim just to fly straight. Get in an awkward position and you can snap stall it in a heart beat. A few clicks of trim nose up can help in the pull-ups from high speed dives.