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View Full Version : Settle An Argument - Real Pacific Fighters



Breeze147
03-08-2005, 05:52 AM
This one just came up in work. What was the first American BUILT fighter to shoot down a Japanese BUILT aircraft in WWII and what was the nationality of the pilot?

MEGILE
03-08-2005, 06:09 AM
Chinese guy called Ihaven'ta clue.

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-08-2005, 06:19 AM
My knee-jerk reaction would be to say it was a P-40 in China...I need to verify that there weren't any Chinese pilots flying US-built rides though...back in a few. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


TB

ploughman
03-08-2005, 06:24 AM
Just to clarfy before I get chronologically confused, WWII being on or after 3rd September 1939?

MEGILE
03-08-2005, 06:32 AM
Still no idea, but here is a little fact for you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Wildcat was in combat with the Axis well before America entered World War II. Two FAA Martlet Is claimed "first blood" with the type on 25 December 1940 with the reported destruction of a German Junkers Ju-88 fast bomber. The Ju-88 had been on a reconnaissance mission over the Royal Navy base at Scapa Flow, in the Orkney Islands in the North Sea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Cippacometa
03-08-2005, 07:38 AM
Maybe some British Buffalo in the China-Burma theatre, before AVG arrived...

Skarphol
03-08-2005, 07:52 AM
This is also slightly dependent on how you define the start of WWII.
One can say that the war in the Pacific started when Japan attacked Manchuria in China in 1931. This was the start of Japanese aggression in this area, and that aggression contionued from that point and until August 1945.
Then, one might say WWII started when Germany attacked Poland in september 1939. But this was more the start of an European war.
The war took on a more global scale when british and dutch interest in the far east was attacked by Japan.
On December 7th, 1941 the US was suddenly a part of the Pacific war as it was attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor.
And finally, on december 11th 1941, Germany decleared war on the US, thus merging the European war with the Pacific war, and WWII was a fact.
But I have no clue to the answer on Breeze147's question, though..

Skarphol

Zyzbot
03-08-2005, 08:14 AM
Might be one of the Chinese flown Curtiss Hawk III biplanes?

http://www.bahnhof.se/~surfcity/hawk_china.htm

LEXX_Luthor
03-08-2005, 08:35 AM
Yep, Zyzbot is right, search here beginning in 1937. Don't know where they got all this info from, and they claim Soviet DB~3s were used in China but SaQSoN says Not True.

~> http://www.bahnhof.se/~surfcity/sino-japanese.htm

But...the J research page says DB~3 bombers struck Hankow where Saburo was, but Saburo/Caiden say SB bombers.

~~> http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/George_Mellinger/soviet_bombers_in_china.htm

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-08-2005, 08:43 AM
Yep, It was an American designed and built Curtiss Hawk III flown by a Chinese pilot in 1937.

Daiichidoku
03-08-2005, 09:25 AM
first US built ac to shoot down a JP built ac...

was a Boeing P-12 (the model 218 all metal-derivitive)

in 1932, a Chinese P-12 flown by american merc Robert Short mixed it up with 3 Mitsubishi B1M3 carrier based bombers, and 3 2MT5 (type 13-2) fighters, shooting down one confirmed, one probable...the P-12 was itself shot down, too

Breeze147
03-08-2005, 11:03 AM
Thanks for all of the great information.

Daiichidoku
03-08-2005, 04:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
first US built ac to shoot down a JP built ac...

was a Boeing P-12 (the model 218 all metal-derivitive)

in 1932, a Chinese P-12 flown by american merc Robert Short mixed it up with 3 Mitsubishi B1M3 carrier based bombers, and 3 2MT5 (type 13-2) fighters, shooting down one confirmed, one probable...the P-12 was itself shot down, too <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


this was actually, I should add, the very first combat by an american designed ac type at all

Fish40
03-08-2005, 05:10 PM
Are you sure it was a P12? I thought the only fighter produced by Boeing was the P26, nicknamed"Peashooter". I could be wrong though.

Zyzbot
03-08-2005, 05:24 PM
Boeing produced a number of fighters:

PW-9
FB-1,2,3,4
F2B
F3B
F4B
P-12
P-26

Fish40
03-08-2005, 05:31 PM
I stand corrected. Thank's for the info!

robotech
03-08-2005, 11:00 PM
While we're on the topic of Chinese fighters is there anyone doing Chinese airforce skins for PF seeing that we are in the pacific? That would be cool. Maybe a pacific campaign pre-pearl harbour?

Spartan_GR
03-09-2005, 12:16 AM
Just to add a fact about wildcats in europe: I know that Greece had ordered 30 of them, but they did not got to be delivered in time before Germans took Athens ( 24/4/41 ) and so these planes ended in England as "Marlet-II". Another number of some F4F that would go to France, also got delivered to England as "Marlet-I". I dont know if these planes had any differences from the F4F flying in the pacific ( but i suppose that they didn't had any equipment for landing in carriers )

Drifter_Bob
03-09-2005, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Breeze147:
This one just came up in work. What was the first American BUILT fighter to shoot down a Japanese BUILT aircraft in WWII and what was the nationality of the pilot? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first US victory by a US pilot in a US plane over Japanese pilots in Japanese planes was by P-40's at pearl harbor. George Welsh shot down four planes at Pearl Harbor with a P-40.

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_welch.html


DB

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-09-2005, 07:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drifter_Bob:
The first US victory by a US pilot in a US plane over Japanese pilots in Japanese planes was by P-40's at pearl harbor. George Welsh shot down four planes at Pearl Harbor with a P-40.

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_welch.html


DB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Drifter, but you're wrong. Americans were flying p-40 variants in China long before the Japanese attacked Pearl.

As a matter of fact, even though the attack on Pearl Harbor resulted in the US declaring War on Japan, The defenders (such as welch) didn't record those victories "IN" the war...war was declared the next day. They counted, obviously. Just a little clarification.

TB