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View Full Version : Question for all 109 experts: dessiccant capsule and the 109



RegRag1977
11-02-2009, 05:15 PM
Hi guys,

My question is about the "dessiccant capsule" one can sometimes see on the ME109G windshields (kind of dark little disc on the right side of the windshield).

So were these used on all BF109G and later versions (this is what i myself think, because most of the photographs or museum 109 i have seen do have them) or were they only used on some special versions (like what i read on some other forums) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif ?

This question is important to me because for some reasons the capsule is not modelled in IL2 (stock). If it was it would considerably obstruct visibility forward.

To put it simply: should the disc be modelled or not? How were 109G and K windshields in reality? Are our 109 cockpits modelled correctly in this regard?

Forgive my ignorance http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif and thank you for your answers!

Metatron_123
11-02-2009, 06:16 PM
Ok off the top of my head: If you look at the windshield of for example the F-4 model, you can see a separate piece of armoured glass bolted on to the windshield. Now one of the modifications that the G model incorporated was a welded rather than bolted canopy frame. The windshield armour included was also now embodied into the windshield rather than bolted on top. It seems that the space between the layer of regular glass and the armoured glass would fog up, and thus to free it of moisture they added the desiccant capsule. In other words I believe it should be all G models.

megalopsuche
11-02-2009, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by RegRag1977:
This question is important to me because for some reasons the capsule is not modelled in IL2 (stock). If it was it would considerably obstruct visibility forward.

I would say it minimally obstructs the forward visibility. When I have used the modded cockpits that have it I barely notice it, and it never gets in the way of combat.

Freiwillige
11-03-2009, 12:53 AM
The moisture disk was used on all 109's with a pressurized cockpit.

Most 109's had two versions of the same aircraft.
Example G-5\G-6 = Pressurized\standard

Most pressurized versions had the seals leaking over time and so the field units would just tear the seals out and revert the aircraft to the non pressurized version.

And by far the pressurized were rare compared with standard variants.

By late war it was decided that High altitude flights were only brief affairs with the 109's climbing to hit the bombers then breaking off and the oxygen mask proved more than suitable in this situation so pressurized cockpits were no longer used after the G-5.

Window disks were not in use in any variant we have in the game.

RegRag1977
11-03-2009, 01:00 PM
Thank you very much, guys for the answers!

Do you guys know where i could find infos on this? I mean what are the good references on this subject? Maybe is there a book or a link i could visit... what do you think?

Anyway thank you again for answering! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Metatron_123
11-03-2009, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
The moisture disk was used on all 109's with a pressurized cockpit.

Most 109's had two versions of the same aircraft.
Example G-5\G-6 = Pressurized\standard

Most pressurized versions had the seals leaking over time and so the field units would just tear the seals out and revert the aircraft to the non pressurized version.

And by far the pressurized were rare compared with standard variants.

By late war it was decided that High altitude flights were only brief affairs with the 109's climbing to hit the bombers then breaking off and the oxygen mask proved more than suitable in this situation so pressurized cockpits were no longer used after the G-5.

Window disks were not in use in any variant we have in the game.

I think you are confusing the desiccant capsule in the windscreen with the calcium chloride pellets in the side windows, found in pressurized variants. Notice how the capsule remains in the windscreen regardless of pressurization. It should be found in all Bf-109 G and K variants I think.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x286/metatron_123/pressure.jpg

This is from Squadron Signal's Bf-109 in action, it's a good quick guide.

RegRag1977
11-03-2009, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
The moisture disk was used on all 109's with a pressurized cockpit.

Most 109's had two versions of the same aircraft.
Example G-5\G-6 = Pressurized\standard

Most pressurized versions had the seals leaking over time and so the field units would just tear the seals out and revert the aircraft to the non pressurized version.

And by far the pressurized were rare compared with standard variants.

By late war it was decided that High altitude flights were only brief affairs with the 109's climbing to hit the bombers then breaking off and the oxygen mask proved more than suitable in this situation so pressurized cockpits were no longer used after the G-5.

Window disks were not in use in any variant we have in the game.

I think you are confusing the desiccant capsule in the windscreen with the calcium chloride pellets in the side windows, found in pressurized variants. Notice how the capsule remains in the windscreen regardless of pressurization. In other words it's found in all Bf-109 G and K variants I believe.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x286/metatron_123/pressure.jpg

This is from Squadron Signal's Bf-109 in action, it's a good quick guide. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very interesting Metatron_123, thanks for posting this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif . As you said, the dessiccant capsule can be seen on the 2 drawings, pressurized and non-pressurized.

Your explaination about the welded armoured glass is very convincing and logical.

Also the dessiccant capsule is not so small to me: it would be pretty annoying for deflection shots (aircraft coming from the right side; remember the 109 gunsight is positionned to the right side).?

Strange that other knowledgeable forum members do not help... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Anyway thanks Metatron_123 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Metatron_123
11-04-2009, 10:51 AM
What I'm curious about is the colour of these things. In the mod the patch is brown, but the Ta-152 canopy has a similar capsule that is transparent. In modern photographs it's hard to tell if the patch is there and transparent or if it has simply been removed...

RegRag1977
11-04-2009, 02:01 PM
On all (white and black) pics i've seen, i guess the color was rather dark, maybe dark brown though it's hard to be 100% sure... i've never seen any transparent capsule though.

RegRag1977
11-04-2009, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
What I'm curious about is the colour of these things. In the mod the patch is brown, but the Ta-152 canopy has a similar capsule that is transparent. In modern photographs it's hard to tell if the patch is there and transparent or if it has simply been removed...

I found this pic on the web, maybe the capsule you spoke about looked like this one?

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy314/RegRag/bf109_cockpit_photo2.jpg

To me too it seems like the capsule is missing.

RegRag1977
11-04-2009, 02:46 PM
Some other pics showing the capsule (some looks transparent):

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy314/RegRag/FinnishBf109G-2MT-201flownbyMajorLu.jpg
This one is interesting because it has the ventilation scoop + the dessicant capsule, which leads to think that it was not only on pressurized versions.

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy314/RegRag/BF-109.jpg

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy314/RegRag/Bf109G2Laatzencockpit.jpg

zxwings
11-06-2009, 09:27 PM
Here is a 109-G10's cockpit which does not have the capsule. So the question is whether the windshield is the original one.

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/walkaround/610937/610937.10.jpg

This one doesn't seem to have one, either; and the question is the same.

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/walkaround/610824/610824rg-10.jpg

Source: http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm

RegRag1977
11-08-2009, 04:53 PM
Thanks for your post and the link which is excellent! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

What a pity no one here has clear and precise documentation on this particular subject...

Anyway thanks again for the pics and the link http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif