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Nicholaiovitch
03-24-2008, 02:48 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gifDear oh dear!
You will see from my Av that the number of wheels up landings I have made on the Buffalo has got to the embarassing stage.
Can I please have your inputs as to how the "real" Buffalo displayed the gear down and "safe" from the cockpit.
All I can find in IL-2 is the tiny gear lever that moves by your right leg when looking directly down. The only problem is that it returns to the neutral position after cycling (up or down).
There is no warning horn as in the 109, no nice green lights like many British types, so how do you guys check the wheels down without cheating and looking outside by pressing F2? Surely the real machine had some sort of indication?
Have I missed something?
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qlc1
03-24-2008, 03:32 PM
use the outside view if you cant remember pushing the button.
i see no shame in checking your plane outside.
in the real world,you would have a dozen voices in your ear telling you that gear is up.ground control,wingman,tower.ok maybe only 3 voices.
the closer to the runway,the louder the voices.
i do this to check damage to my plane as well.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-24-2008, 04:39 PM
IIRC in all versions of the IL2, there is a small black and white striped band that goes vertical when the gear is lowered. The indicator is located near the canon on the left wing and you should see it, when you look out of the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nicholaiovitch
03-24-2008, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by qlc1:
use the outside view if you cant remember pushing the button.
i see no shame in checking your plane outside.
in the real world,you would have a dozen voices in your ear telling you that gear is up.ground control,wingman,tower.ok maybe only 3 voices.
the closer to the runway,the louder the voices.
i do this to check damage to my plane as well.

Many thanks qlc1. I guess what you are saying is that there is no modelling of cockpit indications in the Buffalo! If you try and fly in "realistic mode" at the offline strips that I fly in and out of, there is no outside view, and no one to tell you if the gear is down. (if the strip is clear- you land! As in many unprepared wartime strips)Surely the Buffalo had either an "in wing" indicator, or a couple of green lights in the cockpit. Just pressing the down button does not necessarily give you "down and locked". Try the Seafire/Spitfire and you will see what I mean. The gear green does not come on when you press the gear button; only when it is down and locked.
Many thanks for your input.
Any Brewster wizzos with the answer?

qlc1
03-24-2008, 04:50 PM
dunno much about buffalo's.
what i said is what i do,dunno if its right or wrong,but from now on im looking for the indicators on the wings like capt lone ranger said.i never knew that.

Nicholaiovitch
03-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
IIRC in all versions of the IL2, there is a small black and white striped band that goes vertical when the gear is lowered. The indicator is located near the canon on the left wing and you should see it, when you look out of the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


You almost had me! I thought it was April 1st. for a minute. I'm afraid this is the Buffalo Mk 1 as flown by the RAF in the Far East. No cannon!
Which type were you refering to?

Capt.LoneRanger
03-24-2008, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Nicholaiovitch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
IIRC in all versions of the IL2, there is a small black and white striped band that goes vertical when the gear is lowered. The indicator is located near the canon on the left wing and you should see it, when you look out of the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You almost had me! I thought it was April 1st. for a minute. I'm afraid this is the Buffalo Mk 1 as flown by the RAF in the Far East. No cannon!
Which type were you refering to? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL - sorry, that was my missunderstanding! I though you were talking about the IL2-plane! My fault http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
In the Buffalo Mk1 there is an indicator about the "left knee" of the pilot, right at the lower rim of the instrument panel. An indicator moves from left to right an back, when lowering or rising the gear.

Nicholaiovitch
03-24-2008, 05:36 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Brilliant LoneRanger.
It never ceases to amaze me the knowledge you guys have about all these different types.
Such a simple device too, probably not even needing electrical power.
I owe you a beer!
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SeaFireLIV
03-24-2008, 06:14 PM
Y`know, i`ve made a couple of perfect belly up landings cos I forgot the gears or already thought they were down. I`m thinking `wow, this landing is smooth!` until the fuselage makes contact and scrapes along the runway, busting the prop!

If i`m not sure if my gear is down and i`m in a plane that doesn`t indicate it, then I`ll try to `feel` how the plane`s flying. Bumpy, resistant.. gears must be down. Too smooth... maybe gears up.

Another method is to just press the Gear button. What`s the worst that can happen? If your gear`s already down, it`ll go up and you`ll have to go round or you may just have enough time to bring it down again.

M_Gunz
03-24-2008, 07:35 PM
The big deal IRL is if the gear is down and locked. That last part is the kicker!

Every year a certain number of pilots land gear up. I heard one where the gear handle got
cycled before takeoff and the pilot was told it's okay while the gear is down. Not quite,
it turned out. He hit a mini-bump during the run, went slightly up and the gear unlocked.
Prop got chewed even though the pilot managed to keep from belly-scraping. Four guys had
to lose their chance to log time in the, IIRC, Comanche that day.

buzzsaw1939
03-24-2008, 11:23 PM
Right on Gunz,..I had a pilot showing off how that works to some passengers once, brand new engine, low time, the prop was the miner cost, anytime you have a prop strike, the shaft has to be fluxed for cracks, you guessed it! 80,000 bucks for a new engine at that time! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-25-2008, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Nicholaiovitch:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Brilliant LoneRanger.
It never ceases to amaze me the knowledge you guys have about all these different types.
Such a simple device too, probably not even needing electrical power.
I owe you a beer!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

You're welcome. It was fun to fly that plane again - didn't do that for ages. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

M_Gunz
03-25-2008, 02:18 AM
That happened before 1974, would it have been cheaper to overhaul and replace the shaft then?
Would the engine would have be gone over as well?
Any more it's like prices are in dog money (like dog years, 7:1) if ya know what I mean, then
multiply by three just for the H of it!

Nicholaiovitch
03-25-2008, 03:14 AM
Well it is interesting to hear stories about this issue and thank you all for your contributions.
I guess this issue started very shortly after the first retractable gear machine arrived on the scene (anyone know when?). It is still catching people out nearly 100 years later and even with all the various devices that have been installed, there is a lot to be said for the gear being "down and welded"!
As you point out SeafireLIV, it is possible to see the vibration on some types (including the Buffalo)when the gear is down, the problem occurs if you have sustained damage. The damage model on the Buffalo is very good and vibration and handling are then such that it is very difficult to tell from flying characteristics if the gear is actualy down. Having found out so many new things about IL-2 in the past couple of years, I'm convinced Oleg is going to suprise me with one wheel hanging up some day!
Thanks to LoneRanger we have found out how two of the types indicate down and "locked"(mechanically)
I will progress through the other types now looking for similar gadgets to avoid the embarrassment I sustained after managing to avoid it all my aviation carreer.
Have fun.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BWaltteri
03-25-2008, 03:40 AM
Obviously landing with wheels up happened accidentally to real pilots as well, but if you only want the highest difficulty level you may have too many challenges thereby - for hardly anyone in real life moves his head by moving his right hand?

buzzsaw1939
03-25-2008, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
That happened before 1974, would it have been cheaper to overhaul and replace the shaft then?
Would the engine would have be gone over as well?
Any more it's like prices are in dog money (like dog years, 7:1) if ya know what I mean, then
multiply by three just for the H of it!

Most of the time a crack would show up behind the prop hub, but even if you don't find one, it was importand to go through the whole engine, as many things can happen when it makes a sudden stop from 2 to 3 thousand rpm's!

But it was of coarse more critical with metal props!

SeaFireLIV
03-25-2008, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Nicholaiovitch:
I'm convinced Oleg is going to suprise me with one wheel hanging up some day!


He will!

ffb
03-25-2008, 09:23 PM
in some versions of the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif there is a sound for the gears raising and lowering...and the flaps too

captainbong1970
03-26-2008, 12:08 AM
you can lose one wheel from flak damage, and I've lost one in a wobbly takeoff.

trumper
03-26-2008, 04:51 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[INGAME]I thought you received a message on the screen telling you when your "gear" was up or down.It may only last a few seconds though.

Here are some links for a quick look at,hope they are interesting
http://www.warbirdforum.com/eagle.htm Flight testing/comparison

http://www.johngreavesart.ca/brooks.htm

http://www.warbirdforum.com/vmf221.htm

rnzoli
03-26-2008, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by ffb:
in some versions of the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif there is a sound for the gears raising and lowering...and the flaps too
Yes, in the official version http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
I mean when you turn the wheel, you can hear the sound of that. What I miss is a "locked" sound, some kind of thump, when the gear is fully extended or fully retracted.

Nicholaiovitch
03-26-2008, 08:16 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by trumper:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[INGAME]I thought you received a message on the screen telling you when your "gear" was up or down.It may only last a few seconds though.

Here are some links for a quick look at,hope they are interesting



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Great entries Trumper. Thank you so much.

I think I have maybe not expressed well the initial doubt that I had about gear indications, so I have performed an experiment using the information provided by LoneRanger regarding the gear indications on the Buffalo.
This is what I have found:-
1) The doubt I expressed was the lack of a "gear locked" indicator on the Buffalo (probably many other types as well). As has many times been pointed out, pressing the gear down button gives you a text message, a sound and possibly even vibration. It does not tell you the gear is down and "locked". Hence the delay in types like the Spitfire before the green "locked" light illuminates.
2) As LoneRanger pointed out, some types (the IL2 variants - the Buffalo) have a mechanical gear down indicator. On the Buffalo this is a "slider" that moves from left to right at the bottom edge of the instrument panel and stops at "gear down" after a short while during extension. On the real a/c this would probably require multiple failure to give a false indication of the gear being down and "locked". In other words, unlike the "micro switch" on a gear down indicator such as the Spitfire which could be subject to electrical mulfunction, dirt etc., the mechanical indicator on the Buffalo should be almost cast iron accurate!
3) What I wanted to find out is if the mechanical indicator on the Buffalo (and probably on other types) in IL2 would give the correct indication if one gear "hangs up"!
4) I set up an experimental flight that I'm afraid wrote off another machine and added to my wheels up total!
5) Here is the sequence of pictures showing the result:-
- Picture 1 showes me removing the stb. gear and spilling the LSO's tea.
- Picture 2 shows the fly-by. (all the boys were in the pub and did not help with the state of the gear!
- Picture 3 shows the "cast iron mechanical gear indicator" in the "gear down and locked" position!!! even though one gear was missing altogether!
- I did not re-produce the inevitable consequences of the landing for obvious reasons.

Finally, the moral of all this is:-
1) If you are not damaged, you see the text "gear down", your electro mechanical indicators display "gear down and locked", you see the vibration on the screen and hear the gear cycling, your gear is in all probability "down and locked".
2) If you have sustained damage to any part of the machine and flying characterisitics already display control problems and/or vibration, if you do not see the text "gear damaged", your gear will probably extend normally with indications normal after selecting down.
3) If you see the text "gear damaged" on your screen, you can be sure you have a gear missing or unlocked. In addition, do not rely on electrical or mechanical indications to reflect your gear state in IL-2 (or in real life - probably!)

I hope this clarifies things, and it was fun finding out.
Once again, thank you all for your contributions.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/GearExp01.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/GearExp02.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/Nicholaiovitch/IL-2/GearExp03.jpg

rnzoli
03-26-2008, 09:07 AM
Excellent tests, wonderful.
I suspected most of this, but have never seen so clearly verified & demonstrated http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

K_Freddie
03-26-2008, 11:23 AM
I had a familiar takeoff experience many moons ago.. luckily I was recording at the time...

One Wheel Take Off (6MB) (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/OneWheelTakeOff.wmv)

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