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Gbucket
11-27-2006, 07:56 AM
If you were buying an averagely priced joystick, what brand would you go for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ploughman
11-27-2006, 08:12 AM
I picked up a new Saitek RF Cyborg 3d for ??20 and that's money well spent as far as I'm concerned. I did buy a Trust 2600 for ??15 but one of the pots went AWOL after about a month and it's now collecting dust behind a bookshelf somewhere, PoS.

major_setback
11-27-2006, 08:13 AM
I got a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force recently for my brother, haven't tried it, but judging by searches on the forums it is one of those that's highly recommended. It was also extremely cheap (the equivalent of 65 US Dollars or 34 pounds in Britain) for a good FF stick, so it's worth investigating, at least.
Try shopping around for one, they seem to be at a reduced price at lots of places just now.


It is easily adjustable, and can even be used by left-handed players. Also has quite a few buttons and a shift function (for doubling the key functions, I suppose).

http://img.xcomputer.cz/ImgW.asp?cd=MH740&fd=f3 <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Capt.LoneRanger
11-27-2006, 08:27 AM
Saitek offers the best joyticks in the mid-priced market. The programming software is very good and the overall quality is adequate for the price. Most of them have at least a throttle, some of them even a rudder by an additional lever or by turning the stick.

Some of the Logitech sticks are nice, too, but I didn't have a chance to test them, yet.

Good thing is, these sticks are ususally testable on shelf. That will not only enable you to test the sticks, even if unplugged, but it has also a very nice function: Many people, even those not interested in buying a stick, tend to move, twist and bend the sticks on the shelf. It's a very good torture chamber for the sticks mechanics. If there are flaws, the more visitors the shop has, easier they'll be obvious. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Capt.LoneRanger
11-27-2006, 08:29 AM
Small addition to the Saitek Cyborg-series: AFAIK the handle can be adjusted for left-handers. Not very common in our genre.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

greets
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major_setback
11-27-2006, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Small addition to the Saitek Cyborg-series: AFAIK the handle can be adjusted for left-handers. Not very common in our genre.
(Edited my post to say that too!)
Twist handle too, for rudder.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Gbucket
11-27-2006, 08:36 AM
Saitek are the daddy then?

I'm guessing for a game like Pacific Fighters/IL2 then something like this (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x52.htm) would be perfect?

Yskonyn23
11-27-2006, 08:41 AM
Yes sir! Lots of guys are flying with either the X45 (old model) or X52 (new model).
I fly with the latter myself and it's perfect!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Capt.LoneRanger
11-27-2006, 08:41 AM
For the price, yes. But that stick is more than twice as expensive as the Saitek Cyborg-Evo FF http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There's also a X52Pro-Version out, no longer looking like the controls of the Enterprise and with some nice additions/modifications.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Troll2k
11-27-2006, 08:42 AM
Saitek has a dual throttle stick.Good for bombers.

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/av8r.htm

They also have coming an newer version of the x52.

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/x52pro.htm

csThor
11-27-2006, 08:43 AM
Bought my first Thrustmaster (back then "TopGun") nearly ten years ago, it never failed me although I upgraded to a Thrustmaster Afterburner (which I replaced after over 5 years of constant use with another Afterburner).

There's one brand I would not recommend (I'd rather send it straight to hell) - Logitech. I had three Logitech joysticks in as many months. All failed due to the same construction weaknesses of its interior parts. Do not buy Logitech joysticks unless you have money to burn. In that case mail me and I give you my bank data http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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R_Target
11-27-2006, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
There's one brand I would not recommend (I'd rather send it straight to hell) - Logitech. I had three Logitech joysticks in as many months. All failed due to the same construction weaknesses of its interior parts. Do not buy Logitech joysticks unless you have money to burn. In that case mail me and I give you my bank data http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Lol, same here. They sent me three replacements before I gave up. It's too bad, because the Extreme 3D Pro has a great button arrangement and fit my hand perfectly.

My opinion of mid-range Saitek is not much better (too mushy), but at least the pots don't go out after three weeks like the Logitech.

For cheap sticks, I had the best results with Thrustmaster Top Gun Fox2 Pro.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

*+
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Jaws2002
11-27-2006, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Saitek are the daddy then?

I'm guessing for a game like Pacific Fighters/IL2 then something like this (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x52.htm) would be perfect?

X-52 is a good choice.
X-45 on the other hand is a bad choice for this game. It doesn't have twist for rudder and the rocker on the throttle is a really bad tool for the rudder.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Altocirrus
11-27-2006, 09:22 AM
I was in exactly your position a year ago and went for the Saitek Cyborg Evo, it's been fantastic so far. I was pleasantly surprised by the high-tech glow when I plugged it in!

I went for the non-FF one though, I figured it would be more reliable in the longrun. I'm sure it's fine though.

mrsiCkstar
11-27-2006, 09:29 AM
I've also used the Cyborg Evo for a little over 1 and a half years now and it's served me very well... I've never had any problems with it breaking down or apart on me... the only complaint I have is that the base is very light and unless you wanna tape it down to a platform or constantly keep pressure on the base with your throttle hand it will move around like crazy while flying!

But other than that it's a very good stick in my opinion. And cheap as well.

I'm currently planning my upgrade to a HOTAS setup though so I'm afraid the ol' Cyborg will end up pretty much unused after that hehe...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bearcat99
11-27-2006, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Saitek are the daddy then?

I'm guessing for a game like Pacific Fighters/IL2 then something like this (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x52.htm) would be perfect?

X-52 is a good choice.
X-45 on the other hand is a bad choice for this game. It doesn't have twist for rudder and the rocker on the throttle is a really bad tool for the rudder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go with the Saitek. Best bang for buck by far. Deciding between the X-45 & X-52 IMO all depends on 2 things.
1- Availability.... X-45s are getting harder and harder to get.

2-Whether or not you are going to get rudder pedals. If you do plan to get pedals ypu might want to go with the X-45 as thew rudder rocker can be programmed as a banded switch. I use mine for flaps.

Even with the X-52 you probably can set up the twist rudder as a banded switch as well. Just make it so that the null zone in the middle comprises a 60-70% spread and either end is set at 15-20%....
I dont knoiw if they ship to the UK but you might want to try going here (http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html) first. The sticks come with a full warranty.... and for the price you cant beat it.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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<span class="ev_code_white">Oleg: I think players should upgrade their PC after the release of Storm of War: The Battle of Britain, but not now. Minimum system would be probably like last year good system for IL-2 series. The simulation has gone from what was to be a study sim involving one aircraft to a real monster anthology of WWII aviation. The engine has been stretched to fit multi-engined bombers, aircraft that are linked (such as the Mistel and the TB-3/I-16 combinations), aircraft carriers, runway cratering, working searchlights, etc.



</span>

Platypus_1.JaVA
11-27-2006, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Troll2k:
Saitek has a dual throttle stick.Good for bombers.

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/av8r.htm



The stick looks very cool to me but, I can not miss all the trim sliders on my X-52.

I would like to reccomend the Saitek sticks also. Too bad that they are almost nowhere to be found in shops in my country (Netherlands) You don't really need the sliders and turnknobs to play this sim but they can help very much. I consider Throttle and rudder control to be almost obligatorily for this game.

BTW, mister (I assume you are a mister http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) UBIRAZZ, why is <b style="color:black;background-color:#a0ffff">UBI[/b] intrested in the brand of joysticks we like to use for this game? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Gbucket
11-27-2006, 09:44 AM
I want to get some in for this weekend (http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php) so you can play with something good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
11-27-2006, 09:47 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Oh man..... nice.. wish I could be there!!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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<span class="ev_code_white">Oleg: I think players should upgrade their PC after the release of Storm of War: The Battle of Britain, but not now. Minimum system would be probably like last year good system for IL-2 series. The simulation has gone from what was to be a study sim involving one aircraft to a real monster anthology of WWII aviation. The engine has been stretched to fit multi-engined bombers, aircraft that are linked (such as the Mistel and the TB-3/I-16 combinations), aircraft carriers, runway cratering, working searchlights, etc.



</span>

crazyivan1970
11-27-2006, 10:18 AM
Hey Razz....does this mean that we will see you in the virtual skies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for Topic... Cyborg sticks seem to be good for money, not too impress with quality. I am still on good ole MS/FFB2 with 2 in reserve. Not sure what will i do when my stock runs out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Chuck_Older
11-27-2006, 10:22 AM
Razz is gonna play Il2?

Does this mean we'll see you occasionally, Razz? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Troll2k
11-27-2006, 10:24 AM
Is that Birmingham Alabama?

TgD Thunderbolt56
11-27-2006, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Not sure what will i do when my stock runs out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


CH bruthur! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

C'mon, you know you want to...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Gbucket
11-27-2006, 10:28 AM
Birmingham in the UK, Troll2k.

I've been known to pop my head into Pacific Fighters just after release and you never know what may happen in the future http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chuck_Older
11-27-2006, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Birmingham in the UK, Troll2k.

I've been known to pop my head into Pacific Fighters just after release and you never know what may happen in the future http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Birmingham??! Do you know Ozzy?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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SlickStick
11-27-2006, 11:22 AM
Here's hoping for a nice write-up and photo expose' after the show, Mr. Razz. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Drop the extra bucks and get the X-52 HOTAS, if your wallet dictates a relatively inexpensive flying solution (as compared to Cougar), but you have more than just plain joystick money to spend. IMO, there is no comparison to using a HOTAS to fly this game with. Extremely versatile, multi-function assignable switches and more immersive. Plus, several rotaries for trims and prop pitch, as well as dual hat switches and mouse stick.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Lucius_Esox
11-27-2006, 12:34 PM
I want to get some in for this weekend so you can play with something good

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

CH do some very good products,,, err what will you be doing with them afterwards?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chivas
11-27-2006, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by UbiRazz:
If you were buying an averagely priced joystick, what brand would you go for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nobody makes a real good joystick anymore. If your thinking of buying an X52...wait until the X52 PRO comes out this December. The orginal X52 had deadzone, and hall scenser issues that are supposedly fixed with the PRO version.
The Aviator maybe something you could try now...its cheap and available .http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/pcgc.asp

Although I've never tried it, Saitek may have learned some lesson from previous products and improved this one. I just keeping fixing my MSFF2...IMHO...the smoothest most precise joystick.

~Salute~
Chivas<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Willey
11-27-2006, 03:56 PM
Microsoft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
11-27-2006, 04:39 PM
Perhaps we can drag Razz from the Rainbowsix Vegas forums. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif So I can we can look forward to some nice updates in the near future. BTW I own an X-52 and love it. You can find one on newegg.com for 99 bucks or so. Great bang for buck. But if your looking to pay about half that then the EVO would be the choice unless you can find a MS Sidewinder Precision 2 on ebay...or buy mine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VMF-214_HaVoK
11-27-2006, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UbiRazz:
If you were buying an averagely priced joystick, what brand would you go for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nobody makes a real good joystick anymore. If your thinking of buying an X52...wait until the X52 PRO comes out this December. The orginal X52 had deadzone, and hall scenser issues that are supposedly fixed with the PRO version.
The Aviator maybe something you could try now...its cheap and available .http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/pcgc.asp

Although I've never tried it, Saitek may have learned some lesson from previous products and improved this one. I just keeping fixing my MSFF2...IMHO...the smoothest most precise joystick.

~Salute~
Chivas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No deadzone in my X-52 and its a year old.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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T_O_A_D
11-27-2006, 05:24 PM
Yeh Razz the guys are right.
Cheap dependability Saitek all the way. My x-45 is nearly or is 4 years old now.

But I only use the throttle and fly with an old MFBB stick and use the x-45 stick as a button bay. It works fine I just prefure the feel and sensitivity of the MFFB.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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gotha_g.IV
11-27-2006, 05:31 PM
I have a top gun afterburner II and i'm still an ACE. It's not about the tools but about your creativity!

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-HH- Beebop
11-27-2006, 06:16 PM
Another vote here for the X-52. I love mine and it hasn't yet given me any troubles. The upcoming Pro version looks even better. IMO you can't go wrong with it. Best "bang-for-buck", incredibly programmable and quite well made.
Go with Saitek is my recommendation.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Chivas
11-27-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UbiRazz:
If you were buying an averagely priced joystick, what brand would you go for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nobody makes a real good joystick anymore. If your thinking of buying an X52...wait until the X52 PRO comes out this December. The orginal X52 had deadzone, and hall scenser issues that are supposedly fixed with the PRO version.
The Aviator maybe something you could try now...its cheap and available .http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/pcgc.asp

Although I've never tried it, Saitek may have learned some lesson from previous products and improved this one. I just keeping fixing my MSFF2...IMHO...the smoothest most precise joystick.

~Salute~
Chivas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No deadzone in my X-52 and its a year old.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh you had a deadzone, you just didn't realize it, its hardwired in the firmware. It caused alittle stick stirring that made the kill shot a second longer to get. That second is probably getting you killed at times.


Posted at the Saitek official forum
--------------------------------------------------
Hi,

1. We have removed any deadzone from the firmware
2. The stick itself is not made of metal
3. Spring force adjustment is not included
4. It will be available in December
__________________
Best Regards
Richard Neville
Project Engineering Technician
Saitek UK
------------------------------------------------


The firmware deadzone was not removeable in the orginal X52 control panel. The firmware deadzone will not be present in the new X52 PRO, according to Richard. This will be a major improvement in their stick and may enable me to retire my MSFF2. Also it will have an improved double spring system. It already has smooth gimbals and decent software. I will keep using my Cougar throttle.

At test and practic shooting session I like to set up is 12 friendly aircraft, and see how quickly I could shoot them down. Great for checking convergence and weak spots of aircraft. I usually quickly run thru the 12 aircraft with one 108 shell for each aircraft with my MS stick. With the X52 it took me twice as long and used more than twice the ammo.

Granted each stick comes off the assembly line alittle different. If you can move your X52(measured by the amount of deflection at the top of your stick) without the little X moving in the control panel, you have a deadzone. Mine was .25inch on one side of the access up to .58 inch on the other side. The difference in size is contributed to the Hall scensors not centered in the stick. Which can be easily out of adjustment, direct from the factory. They have a poor centering mechanism.

~Salute~
Chivas<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Taylortony
11-27-2006, 08:08 PM
The times I have been to the show in the past and had a few chats with Oleg and was shown how to fly the ME 262 and HE111 by him before it's release I think he was using a CH stick set up each time.

Sigh I remember it now, Standing on the hugely impressive MicroDross stand looking at all these superb set ups running CFS3 and asking this spotty herbert how stable is it, and does it crash more times than you can shake a stick at it?

Noooo Sir it is really stable and all the bugs have been ironed out..... Ahhhhh I said, so whats up with the one you are standing in front of then?

errrrrrrr, nothing sir, errrrrr sh*t, eeeeerrrrrr, this one isn't loaded up yet.....

yeahhhh right, and I am the sugar plum fairy too.............

JamesBlonde888
11-27-2006, 11:33 PM
No problems with Logitech Wingman extreme 3D pro.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/JamesBlonde/newsig.bmp
3) Shouts 'Bleiben Sie auf K??rs du k??kuk!' when a family member detaches itself from the shopping formation.
http://www.freewebs.com/jamesblonde888/

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