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Tvrdi
10-26-2004, 08:41 AM
yeah....I didnt stall even with tight turns at 270 kmh in wildcat....i was pushing my stick (thrustmaster topgun fox2 pro) like a maniac toward myself...speed was dropping but nothing.....wtf is that?

TAGERT.
10-26-2004, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
wtf is that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like a whine to me.

Tvrdi
10-26-2004, 08:55 AM
no its not....btw u cant stall any of the PTO fighters in the PF..ok maybe that is cause of better gameplay....but its funny how Wildcat can turn without probs with less than 270kmh (with 230kmh i was turning like a madman)....then he can follow a zeke without probs..is that how it was in RL?


btw TAGERT..a lot of u guys playin this sim are from the US...most of the flyable planes in the PF are USN planes.....game is for rich us market....ur avatar is nice--like one from ur fancy and pathetical american dreams....look at those Americas army ops logos on ur website http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

berg417448
10-26-2004, 09:02 AM
More Anti-American bigotry...don't you guys ever get tired?

aerick2
10-26-2004, 09:02 AM
^^^ wth are you talking about Tvrdi? If you can't be civil, then leave. Nobody wants to hear it.

P.S. "Pathetical" isn't a word.

Chuck_Older
10-26-2004, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>btw TAGERT..a lot of u guys playin this sim are from the US...most of the flyable planes in the PF are USN planes.....game is for rich us market....ur avatar is nice--like one from ur fancy and pathetical american dreams....look at those Americas army ops logos on ur website http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a very convincing argument. The Wildcat turns too well because Tag has US logos on his website.

Either that, or you just plain don't like the US. Good for you. Take it to the CNN website's forums

Here's a slightly more in depth report of a PF Zero vs Wildcat, from a recent thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=4691003332

Yellonet
10-26-2004, 09:04 AM
Actually you can get the planes to stall... but it's not very easy... realistic? I don't know.

MEGILE
10-26-2004, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
I'm an idiot <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No doubt bro..

Tater-SW-
10-26-2004, 09:15 AM
140 to 170 MPH? They had an 84 MPH landing speed. And your problem is?

From my F4F pilot's manual... "Once airborne, the F4F would turn on the proverbial dime, loop nice and tight at cruise-power settings, and recover with no altitude loss. Even in a full stall there was still aileron control, and the airplane could be slow rolled at 80 knots."

The Zero should turn better in a continuous turn fight, coming around in a few turns to the F4F's 6. Same with a loop, the zeke should get on the F4F's 6 in a few loops, 3 is a number that sticks in my head from somewhere.

tater

Philipscdrw
10-26-2004, 09:16 AM
Hang on, Turdi has a point. I thought that the Wildcats were unable to outmanouever the Zeros?

JZG_Yunus
10-26-2004, 09:18 AM
try enabling stalls and spins in the difficulty settings u noob, it helps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

mortoma
10-26-2004, 09:29 AM
Here we go again.....sigh.... I'm not sure and I don't have PF yet but I'm willing to bet a lot of $$ that he's turning with or out-turning zeroes that are AI controlled. .....sigh.......For the millionth time, the AI do not turn the zero even close to it's potential, just like they don't turn any plane as hard as a human can turn it. In FB, I can out turn AI zeros when flying another zero quite substantially. People use the AI enemy to judge aircraft performance way too much in this game.
Even with AI set to ace, I estimate that the AI only turn about 85 to 90% as hard as an aircraft can be turned. I have experimented with this quite a bit by flying against AI in exactly the same plane.

People do a quick QMB after they get PF, and then do an even quicker judgement of aircraft capability. Never judge any plane in this sim by it's performance against the AI. Try and turn that Wildcat against a human opponent that knows what he's doing at slow speeds, you'll not be too statified with the Wildcat performance then I'll wager!!!

Tater-SW-
10-26-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Hang on, Turdi has a point. I thought that the Wildcats were unable to outmanouever the Zeros? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a joke, right? "outmaneuver" is not a binary set of conditions. It depends on speed, pilot control, altitude. Even within given parameters, what do you even mean by "turning?" Turn rate? Turn circle radius? Rolling?

It's very complicated. I think it's certainly fair to say the Zero turns better overall than the F4F at slow speeds. What does that mean exactly? Hard to say. Any statement like that should be broad enough to cover everything with some slop. Better slow speed turning means that a Zero should go from a F4F's 12 to his 6 in some number of flat turns at low speed I guess. How many, I don't know. Less than an infinite number and the statement is true.

tater

BSS_Goat
10-26-2004, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Hang on, Turdi has a point. I thought that the Wildcats were unable to outmanouever the Zeros? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes he may have a point, but he is acting like an a$$.

Mr_Nakajima
10-26-2004, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
....btw u cant stall any of the PTO fighters in the PF.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you can. I've stalled the F4F-3, F4F-4 and Corsair Mk II several times. I suspect I can get all the others to stall if I fly them as well.

mortoma
10-26-2004, 09:37 AM
No, he doesn't have a point if he's flying against ace AI in QMB. Now does he?? The ace AI will make even a noob look good.......lol Let him fly that Wildcat against me in a zero online and you'll see/hear him whine that the Wildcat doesn't fly well enough....................sigh..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BSS_Goat
10-26-2004, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
No, he doesn't have a point if he's flying against ace AI in QMB. Now does he?? The ace AI will make even a noob look good.......lol Let him fly that Wildcat against me in a zero online and you'll see/hear him whine that the Wildcat doesn't fly well enough....................sigh..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did he specify off or online ? If so I didnt see it? BTW I have no idea.I dont have PF yet.

RocketDog
10-26-2004, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
People do a quick QMB after they get PF, and then do an even quicker judgement of aircraft capability. Never judge any plane in this sim by it's performance against the AI. Try and turn that Wildcat against a human opponent that knows what he's doing at slow speeds, you'll not be too statified with the Wildcat performance then I'll wager!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Mr Nakajima and I compared the Wildcat vs Zero in a brief online test. The zero can hold a significantly tighter sustained turn then the Wildcat and in a turning fight is soon on the Wildcat's tail. This is as we would expect.

Regards,

RocketDog.

mortoma
10-26-2004, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
No, he doesn't have a point if he's flying against ace AI in QMB. Now does he?? The ace AI will make even a noob look good.......lol Let him fly that Wildcat against me in a zero online and you'll see/hear him whine that the Wildcat doesn't fly well enough....................sigh..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did he specify off or online ? If so I didnt see it? BTW I have no idea.I dont have PF yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How many times did I say I didn't know for sure or that I was willing to bet?? I went out of my way to indicate uncertainty, but that I felt it's a "likely", judging from my experience and from reading so many posts here over the years. I know for a fact a lot of people have tried to judge aircraft performance against AI, many have admitted it. Try to read and actually comprehend what you read. Never said I was sure about anything.

mortoma
10-26-2004, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RocketDog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
People do a quick QMB after they get PF, and then do an even quicker judgement of aircraft capability. Never judge any plane in this sim by it's performance against the AI. Try and turn that Wildcat against a human opponent that knows what he's doing at slow speeds, you'll not be too statified with the Wildcat performance then I'll wager!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. Mr Nakajima and I compared the Wildcat vs Zero in a brief online test. The zero can hold a significantly tighter sustained turn then the Wildcat and in a turning fight is soon on the Wildcat's tail. This is as we would expect.

Regards,

RocketDog. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks Rocketdog, finally someone with some common sense and wisdom has spoken.

DuxCorvan
10-26-2004, 10:59 AM
Don't know PF, but in FB I can outmanoeuver an AI Zero almost in anything.

And flying the Zero, no AI can outmanoeuver me.

It's AI, not the plane Tvrdi. Try online and you'll change your mind.

Well, change your mind anyway. If you seriously typed those simplicities about US users and Tagert's web, you need a new mind for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Kwiatos
10-26-2004, 11:20 AM
The problem with new amercian navy planes is that they could turn and looping with maxiumum pull up 100% delfection stick without any stall. Of course you must smothly pull up in turn or loop but when you get 100% deflection stick you could hold it and turn or loop all time without stall.Even with Zero its hard to do the same. Old planes like Yak3 or LAgg3 66 cant do the same.
See these thread:
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=114;t=000393;p=4

raaaid
10-26-2004, 02:03 PM
it sucks piloting planes that stall hardly like the hellcat or the corsair

in realistic term it depends on the efective run that the elevator has and that can vary

i think the way the corsair and the hellcat turn suck and many peolpe think like me

TAGERT.
10-26-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
btw TAGERT..a lot of u guys playin this sim are from the US...most of the flyable planes in the PF are USN planes.....game is for rich us market....ur avatar is nice--like one from ur fancy and pathetical american dreams....look at those Americas army ops logos on ur website http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for confirming that your just a troll.

BM357_Raven
10-26-2004, 03:47 PM
Tvrdi posted Tue October 26:

"yeah....I didnt stall even with tight turns at 270 kmh in wildcat....i was pushing my stick (thrustmaster topgun fox2 pro) like a maniac toward myself"

Maybe you just need more lithium...

I'm just poking fun, Tvrdi...and yes America is a major portion of the global market for this game. Now if I could just get America to buy more of my futons!

han freak solo
10-26-2004, 03:51 PM
Can you dogfight the I-16 against the Wildcat?

I bet that would be a fight that I'd rather be flying the I-16.

I obviously don't have PF yet.

ZG77_Nagual
10-26-2004, 04:38 PM
Oleg has posted that he and his team were impressed with the stall/turn characteristics of the american navy planes. It's worth noting these were all purpose built carrier planes - hence intended to have the best possible stall characteristics - so they could land on a boat. I like to start out a new edition of the il2 family in the qmb vs eight ace opponents. My choices for opponents are 4 109k4s and 4 zeros. The K4s ai fights better than any other and employes energy/altitude attacks - the k4 also turns very well. The zeros come around very quickly and can hang in a slow climb. Together they make a difficult opponent.

All the american navy planes stall. They stall slowly - and not as abruptly as something like the 190 with it's much lower wing loading - but this is reasonable considering wing loading and design. They are pretty good dogfighters, esp compared to the euro theatre american planes. This is historically known. They are also better energy fighters than the japanese planes - in general.

I can understand not liking america. But this is not an excuse for insanity.

VMF-214_HaVoK
10-26-2004, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tvrdi:
yeah....I didnt stall even with tight turns at 270 kmh in wildcat....i was pushing my stick (thrustmaster topgun fox2 pro) like a maniac toward myself...speed was dropping but nothing.....wtf is that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you could try turning stalls on. And btw 270kph is not slow for turning. It does stall and the zero easily outturns it.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

BSR_RuGGBuTT
10-26-2004, 04:46 PM
I'm learning this bad boy on realistic settings and I can stall the F4F better than just about anybody here.........

Bull_dog_
10-26-2004, 05:16 PM
This debate doesn't suprise me at all...Purpose built carrier aircraft were built to much different specifications that land based aircraft.

Grummans were the best of the best...they were very easy to fly, had good stall characteristics, low wingload and low stall speeds, built like a brick to withstand carrier landings etc... These planes turned well, were easy to fly and had gentle stall characteristics. No a Wildcat can't out turn a A6M2 zero in a sustained turn...but it could in a high speed turn! The Hellcat could hang with an A6M5 Zero at certain speeds too...long enough to acheive a 19:1 kill ratio anyways.

The wildcat should turn very well...I don't have PF yet, but from what I hear...I think the wildcat might be good relative to the zero.

DIRTY-MAC
10-26-2004, 05:36 PM
Have anyone tested how it performes against a Brewster Buffalo or a I-16?

DIRTY-MAC
10-27-2004, 12:41 PM
bump

faustnik
10-27-2004, 02:18 PM
The Wildcat, FM-2, was the best turner of all US a/c.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/turning.jpg

The F4U was another story. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kwiatos
10-27-2004, 03:04 PM
Corsair dont look like to good here lol

VMF-214_Pappy
10-27-2004, 04:41 PM
Turn your stalls on. I fly wildcat and all zeros can outurn it easy. Oh by the way 270mph is not slow or is it fast, its out a perfect speed for the wildcat to turn best. So you know a plane does not have its best turn radius at its maxium speed, same as near its stall speed

F16 Fighter pilots dont pull 7 g turns at mach2 dogfighting in a Modern jet usally occurs around 300-400mph where the plane can turn best. A ww2 fighter this would also apply.

Now since you are playing with stalls off come back later after you try it with stalls turned on than whine about it. IMO the Wildcat can hold its own vs a zero but it is not near as good of a turn figther as it.

GerritJ9
10-28-2004, 07:22 AM
I have tested the F4F against the B-239, flying both in turnagainst the other. Unfortunately the F2A-2 is only AI so I can't test it fully against the F4F.
The aircraft seem fairly evenly matched. The B-239 recovers faster from a stall and is more manoeuverable, the F4F has a higher top speed and climb rate. Worst feature of the F4F is its extremely poor rearward view- the Brewster is much better in this respect.
Waiting for the KNIL B-339D which will probably be a better plane than the F4F.

BuzzU
10-28-2004, 10:17 AM
You need to come to HL turdy. Jump in the Wildcat, and see how you do against the Zekes.