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Heliopause
12-15-2006, 01:40 AM
Has someone tested/flown these two airplanes and noticed any differences? Handling at low speed, full speed, max. diving speed? I think there should be some since the differend arrangement of the wings.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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I was back over the channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way.
I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way to England and waved goodbye.
A few weeks later the same thing happened to me.
That would never have happened in Russia - never". (Erich Rudorffer - 109 pilot)

vladward3050
12-15-2006, 02:00 AM
I'm also wondering what they're armed with. In the last trailer I saw it sounded like MK-103s. That would be very wrong. Anyone who's had the privelege to fly them please enlighten us.

Fatoomch
12-15-2006, 02:40 AM
They are both armed with 2xMk108's (30mm) according to the aircraft guide.

Rudeljaeger
12-15-2006, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Fatoomch:
They are both armed with 2xMk108's (30mm) according to the aircraft guide.

Ingame, they are armed with the Uber-MK103's (30mm). This is a mistake that will hopefully be fixed in 4.08.

fighter_966
12-15-2006, 03:55 AM
Thats not mistake my resource says armament of
Heinkel 162c/d is twoMK108 or two MK213 plus one
20mm in fuselage Source Luftwaffe secret projects fighters 1939-1945

HuninMunin
12-15-2006, 04:03 AM
As we dont have the historical accurate MK213s
the 103 is a good choice.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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....I understand that you understand almost nothing in computer technology(regarding how to get all features working well in one great code and how to get it fully optimized for all aspects of the game and where developers must go for compromisses), because you are speaking bla-bla-bla about things that you don't know. Sorry I don't like to offend you. But it looks like it looks. - Oleg Maddox
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StG2_Schlachter
12-15-2006, 08:19 AM
I didn't check the numbers yet, but the guns of the He-162C/D seem to have a higher rate of fire than the regular MK-103s. OTOH I may be imagining things http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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HuninMunin
12-15-2006, 08:33 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
I had the same thought when watching the very first promo video....
So you're not alone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

------------------------------------------------------------
....I understand that you understand almost nothing in computer technology(regarding how to get all features working well in one great code and how to get it fully optimized for all aspects of the game and where developers must go for compromisses), because you are speaking bla-bla-bla about things that you don't know. Sorry I don't like to offend you. But it looks like it looks. - Oleg Maddox
------------------------------------------------------------

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/633/sigvp0.jpg

Simon "Hunin" Phoenix
Servant of Wotan and Tyr
True knight of the Endlich-Thread

Rudeljaeger
12-15-2006, 09:29 AM
Ok I checked it again.

The weapon fires yellow tracers like the Mk108 and has also the same firerate and (in)accuracy, but produces big explosions and sound like the Mk103.

So we seem to have a "mixture" of the Mk108 and Mk103 that simulates a Mk213.

Vike
12-15-2006, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Rudeljaeger:
Ok I checked it again.

The weapon fires yellow tracers like the Mk108 and has also the same firerate and (in)accuracy, but produces big explosions and sound like the Mk103.

So we seem to have a "mixture" of the Mk108 and Mk103 that simulates a Mk213.

Yes,i think too we got a sort of MK213.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Concerning their maneuverability,both the He162-C&D are less maneuvrable than the He162-A http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Their armament are also not axis-centered,so shooting with their 30mm guns is really inaccurate,but if you're close enough to your target,that wouldn't be a problem... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@+<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Rudeljaeger
12-15-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Vike:
but if you're close enough to your target,that wouldn't be a problem... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@+

Yeah...It took me 3 hits on a B17 to get it down...

What will happen if the "Reds" realize that the fastest plane in the game has also the strongest armament...and is a German one! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Karaya-X
12-15-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Rudeljaeger:
Ok I checked it again.

The weapon fires yellow tracers like the Mk108

So does the Mk103 as well


and has also the same firerate and (in)accuracy, but produces big explosions and sound like the Mk103.

Uhm, maybe because they ARE Mk103s!?


So we seem to have a "mixture" of the Mk108 and Mk103 that simulates a Mk213.

Lol, no, they are simply Mk103s...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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vladward3050
12-15-2006, 03:46 PM
Well I am very dissappointed then. MK-103s would've wrecked the He-162's fusalage. MK-108s were dropped in favor of the MG-151s because the 30mm guns literally shook the nose apart. From all I've read the A-3, was to introduce a strengthened nose which the C and D model would have. MK-108s were to be reintroduced on these models. Now I'm all for MK-103s, love em to death, but I think the fantasy has been taken too far on this one.

PraetorHonoris
12-15-2006, 04:01 PM
The whole new He162 stuff is disappointing, the Mk103 being only a minor point... the recoil shakes the plane really bad, thus the inaccuracy of it.

The biggest problem I have is that both of them were not planned to be build! Already during the work on the He162 A the engineers of Heinkel worked on improving it, making changes that could not go into the A for the RLM wanted the He162 as soon as possible. Most notable is the wing construction. It was known that swept wings gave better high speed performance, thus several ideas were envisioned. The first was a rather simple back swept wing. More spectacular were the forward swept wings. We have that as He162 D in game. Also the designation He162 B can be found in the literature. As the manual of 46 correctly states, the wings flutter much earlier at speeds than conventional back swept wings. With the materials of 1946, the He162 B/D was simply impossible.
It has been rejected at Heinkel for that very reason after wind tunnel testing. The other spectacular design was the cranked wing (He162 C). While possible, it has been rejected as well for the conventional swept wings appeared safer.
The same goes for the V-Tail, that has been replaced by a more conventional design. The final design looked very conventional overall, leaving the proven design of the He162 A untouched as much as possible while giving it a stronger engine and airframe.
Armaments should be improved, too. Early on MK108 were thought of, but later the MG213 was more attractive to Heinkel.

So the actual models in game would not have seen service, no matter how long the war had lasted. I can't understand why they were implemented, especially since the D version was impossible by 1946 anyway as the manual correctly states.

That the new Heinkels are only a tad faster and have otherwise a worse performance than the He162A makes that decision even more strange.



It's quite a similar issue with the Ta183 btw. Again, RRG has chosen a design that would not have seen service as it had been rejected.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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"Misconceptions about the Luftwaffe [...] are, in large part, simply caused by a lack of basic skills of many, who write about the Luftwaffe. For some inexplicable reason, many historians - especially Americans - believe they can write books about the German army or the German air force without knowing German"
Dr. J.S.Corum, LTC USAF, Strategic Studies Institute

tigertalon
12-15-2006, 05:31 PM
So, which gun was proposed for the late He162 IRL, Mg213 or MK213?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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fighter_966
12-15-2006, 05:34 PM
Mk213 or Mk103

vladward3050
12-15-2006, 05:56 PM
Neither, it was the MK-108.

Charos
12-15-2006, 05:58 PM
The HE-162B/C/D were all designed to utilise 2*MK103.

B series fuselage was lengthened to 31 feet, 2 and 3/4 inches which permitted fuel to be increased to a total of 314 Imperial Gallon's.

Both MK103 were to have 100 Round's each.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~trentelliott/FW190/190IL2_View.jpg

PraetorHonoris
12-15-2006, 06:28 PM
Nowarra: Die deutsche Luftrüstung, Vol.2 states MK108
Nowarra: Der Volksjäger, Waffenarsenal 85 states MK108
Meyer/Schick: Luftwaffe Secret Projects, states MK108 and later MG213
Smith/Creek: Volksjäger, Monogramm Close up 11 lists only MK108 for further developments.
Also various I-net resources rather point towards MK108
http://www.vectorsite.net/avhe162.html

So it seems pretty clear to me it was the MK108 or the MG213 (when available and if testing rendered it possible). Since the He162 remains a little light bird even after the strengthening changes, two huge MK103 do not sound reasonable to me anyway.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6061/untitled1copymd8.jpg

"Misconceptions about the Luftwaffe [...] are, in large part, simply caused by a lack of basic skills of many, who write about the Luftwaffe. For some inexplicable reason, many historians - especially Americans - believe they can write books about the German army or the German air force without knowing German"
Dr. J.S.Corum, LTC USAF, Strategic Studies Institute