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VonGrantoven
10-02-2007, 03:39 AM
I am finding it very difficult to put down bombers without getting shot up myself. Even taking on me-110s I often find myself ending up with a few holes in the paintwork.

Anyone know of any vids or illustrated guides (for Dummies) to help me put these bad boys in their place?
TIA

cawimmer430
10-02-2007, 03:45 AM
The AI cheats basically. The bomber gunners are all computer controlled and know exactly when to shoot. You can even attack using the Me-163B at 900 km/h plus and these guys can still put a bullet between your eyes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I've stopped messing bombers a long time ago. That's one of the things about IL-2 that pisses me off. The bombers HIT YOU EVERYTIME. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Pyrres
10-02-2007, 04:17 AM
No they don´t. Just attack properly. Don´t stick to their six, dependig on the bomber attack from different angles, for example he-111 attack from head on, same with b-17, when attacking me-110 never go head on, and I mean it, low six or three a clock is better. And always come in at speed, don´t stay in the formation.

Vanderstok
10-02-2007, 04:37 AM
If you come in from above/below with a steep angle the gunners usually can't hit you. The problem is it can take a lot of passes to bring the bomber down because you have little time to place hits (and if you're a lousy shot as I am http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ). Hurricanes vs. He-111s I find very difficult because you need to have all 8 .303's hitting in one spot.

knightflyte
10-02-2007, 04:53 AM
High and angled attacks.

I usually come in from a high six position, but make sure I'm and at least .6 km or more higher than the intended victim. I get right on top of them out of the way of the gunners shooting arc. Then I roll over on them and dive down guns blazing as I draw within range.

TnB attacks (on the horizontal) are tougher against anything larger than an IL2 because of waste guns and turrets. Pay attention to the gunners arc. You'll eventually see where they can effectively reach you and where they have a poorer angle on you.

Speed is key..... speed is life. To me TnB bleeds to much energy to be effective AND safe.

Experiment with your gun convergence. Everyone has a comfort zone where they'll consistantly pull the trigger at. I have mine to 150 M on dog fighting, but higher like 350 M on bomber missions.

I'm sure there's a link somewhere describing weak areas of every aeroplane. Sturmoviks and Stukas have week radiator and oil tanks. So I like to shoot them from the underneath when I'm climbing back up to start my next attack. (provided I didn't bleed too much.)

Speed is life, but patience is your soul. Don't try to tackle so much at once.... or try to down bombers agressively if your first pass is unsucessful. Patience. If you've bled off too much speed get away and gain the height advantage and come in after your safe and have speed.

Skarphol
10-02-2007, 07:00 AM
I quite often set up the quick mission builder with me in a Hurricane against 4 He-111 with average crew. The six-o-clock approach is suicide. The most effective is from straight above, but I find it very difficult to hit from that posistion. A bomber can easily go down with one good burst from that angle.
The easiest way to inflict damage without getting hit I have found to be from 3-o-clock and 9-o-clock. I start at altitude to gain speed, and then races towards the bombers trying to fly close to perpendicular on their course. Then I simply let them fly through my crosshair, pulling the trigger at the appropriate time. This ensures a lot of hits on the bombers, and very few hits on me as I pass straight behind them at high speed. Then I climb and turn for another run from the other direction. This way I've managed to down 3 He-111's and damaging the last one several times. I seldom get hit myself, but run out of ammo eventually.

Skarphol

DKoor
10-02-2007, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by VonGrantoven:
Anyone know of any vids or illustrated guides (for Dummies) to help me put these bad boys in their place?
TIA Cannot think of anything better than a nice show-track.
In one track I attacked He-111 formation in Hurricane and in other I hammered them in the P-40.
One of the He-111 victims exploded right away from one burst (musta hit bombs or fuel tank exploded....who knows).

Hurri (http://www.esnips.com/doc/efa646ab-a81e-4ade-9201-58b51d5487da/KunaHurri-vs-4xHe111-405) track......I'll try to find one with P-40 too.

DKoor
10-02-2007, 08:12 AM
Here is Warhawk (http://www.esnips.com/doc/7bed0e22-1bc3-4ed4-b270-f3ecfcdefa4c/DKoor40M-4xHe111-405) track. In this one you can see He-111 exploding from burst of .50cal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

VonGrantoven
10-02-2007, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
Cannot think of anything better than a nice show-track.
In one track I attacked He-111 formation in Hurricane and in other I hammered them in the P-40.
One of the He-111 victims exploded right away from one burst (musta hit bombs or fuel tank exploded....who knows).

Hurri (http://www.esnips.com/doc/efa646ab-a81e-4ade-9201-58b51d5487da/KunaHurri-vs-4xHe111-405) track......I'll try to find one with P-40 too.
Those were exactly the type of thing was looking for Dkoor!
A very patient stalk and murder there m8! I couldn't help but wonder how the poor bomber crews must have felt seeing you methodically bumping off their Komeraden...
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be quite as easy as you made it look in thest trks...
Thanks very much for these!

Must go practice...

Sillius_Sodus
10-02-2007, 04:52 PM
By attacking He-111's head-on you can get them smoking or at least get fuel leaking after only a few hits. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Good hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

triad773
10-02-2007, 05:08 PM
Yeah most bombers from 6 o'clock can be murder for you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Low six for some, irregular angles for others. Find a weak angle, work with it. Front quarter attacks worked in real life IIRC because the gunners couldn't shoot through the propeller arc.

Sometimes it even works in IL-2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Viper2005_
10-02-2007, 06:10 PM
Not quite the right vintage, but...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1812595429445699346

DKoor
10-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Vs human flown (gunners) bombers it is different than flying vs Ai ones.
Human is smarter but at the same time, vastly worse in close-up defense gunnery......close fast flying snap shots really work vs them.
Vs Ai it's tricky because even if you do everything right they still may get you as you zoom by, depending on their skill level.

JadehawkII
10-02-2007, 06:48 PM
Boom n Zoom is your best friend when attacking the Bombers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Yeah you can get on their 6 and blast away and I have done this plenty of times with a fair amount of success. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
But like most, expect to get shot at and in some cases, head for the barn (or worse) when your engine goes South on you. All in all, it's not the best way to attack a Bomber. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

But if you still wish too, then Rule number 1 when attacking from the rear, do NOT keep your kite flying in a straight line for a moment! (Think AI Expert gunner)
Always keep that thing moving, weaving up and down and left to right aiming for the engines first to slow it down or better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Walk your shots over the target back and forth with the engines in mind. Takes practice and expect some frustration in the process. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

If you really wish to take on the Bombers, get above them about 500 to 1000 meters, depending on your preferences. When your target is nearly right below you (again preferences) dive down from above and hit the engines, fuel tanks in the wings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Dive past and slowly pull up and zoom climb up to the same height you were at. Don't pull up on that stick too fast or your gonna lose some or most of your energy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Once back up, line up as before and repeat until it's a flaming torch heading for the earth. Oh and one more thing, WATCH YOUR 6! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

zardozid
10-02-2007, 06:48 PM
I try to start my attack from above my target (1km or so) attacking from (somewhere) behind the 3/9 o'clock position I dive at a high angle...I try and take out an engine (maybe start a fire,and will slow bombers speed). I dive past (and below) my target after passing the bomber (distance .5'ish) I pull up and a head of the bombers flight path. After reaching a 1km (above) distance (out of range of bombers guns) I reposition myself for another run at the target...

Between the high dive angle, speed, and staying out of the bombers gun range its hard to get hit...



EDIT: It seems that much of what I wrote is similar to what "JadehawkII" advises...apparently we must have been writing our responses at (near) the same time (he clicking in seconds before me). It was not intended as a "re-tread" so I have left it as is...

JadehawkII
10-02-2007, 06:50 PM
OOPS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
Dublicate Deleted.

VonGrantoven
10-02-2007, 09:16 PM
All great tips guys, thanks!
Anyone have any trks of 3/9 o'clock attacks?

Seeing the approach and angles in Dkoors 12 o'clock ones was a real help (though I suspect it will take a ton of practice to get it right)
TIA