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SlowBurn68
11-06-2006, 12:17 PM
I'm working off a list of Luftwaffe claims for 1941 ostfront and I see several I-18's shot down. Is this a real plane? I can't find a picture of one anywhere.

Hanglands
11-06-2006, 12:33 PM
Cant find any pictures either, but they definately extisted.

This guy made claims for a few :

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/beisswenger.html<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/Mosquito_Attack.jpg

Hanglands
11-06-2006, 12:41 PM
Hi again,

Perhaps I mistunderstand this but....

"Meanwhile, staying from 1 July at Stary Bychov airfield, Jagdgeschwader 51 was still effectively fighting the opponent???s air forces. On 5 July, to the north of Minsk, a group of six bombers Tupolew SB-2 was taken over and all of them were shot down within two minutes. Two of them fell victim to M??lders, who five hours later sent to the ground burning with flames two <span class="ev_code_RED">I-18 fighters, also known as Yakovlev Yak-1</span>."

I found this at http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/molders/molders.htm<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/Mosquito_Attack.jpg

GreyFox5
11-06-2006, 12:53 PM
Looked into it on Google and found a list but no use of the I-18 designation. The LW had incorrect data about the enemy planes and may have mistaken an I-18 for a version of the I-16. Cannot really determine if this was the case but have read accounts that the LW had incorrect data on the identification of planes they were fighting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_military_aircraft_designation_systems<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/GreyFox5/Il2-009.jpg
Check your "6" M8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SlowBurn68
11-06-2006, 01:35 PM
Interesting - Thanks guys.

F19_Ob
11-07-2006, 02:55 AM
Perhaps they ment I-16 type 18?
I've seen sloppy usage in old books where they say only type 18.

Another suggestion is that they mean the I-185.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v382/f19_ob/ob_ver2.jpg

JG52Karaya-X
11-07-2006, 03:49 AM
Well definitely not the I185! A handful of I185M82 entered squadron testing but never saw any combat. The M71 version was even rarer as the engine was a complete disaster and never ran reliable and was soon abandoned

As Hanglands already posted it seems to be some sort of Yak, the "I" (for istrebitel = fighter) designation was not limited to Polikarpov planes such as the I153, I16, ... but was also used in general on prototype planes. For example the LaGG1 and 3 started out as the I-22, the MiG1/3 were designated I-200. Interestingly I found that the Yaks prototype designation was I-26 (-1 and -2, 2 models)...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/Karaya/E3-1.gif (http://www.geocities.com/jg52thebutcherbirds/index1.html)
Kein andrer als ein J??ger sp??rt den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert,
Drum sind wir gl??cklich, stolz und froh,
Der J??gerei ein Horrido!

LEXX_Luthor
11-07-2006, 05:29 AM
He-113 was a popular plane to claim. RAF and Soviet pilots often claimed "heinkel" fighters shot down...by the time Ussia got into the war heavily in The Meds and Western Europe, the heinkel fighter was Myth Busted. Of course, in the Pacific and China, most every Japanese Army fighter was claimed to be a "zero" hehe.


It's unclear even today exactly who this effort was intended to impress ???foreign air forces or Germany's public??? but it seems to have been a successful deception. British intelligence featured the plane in AIR 40/237, a report on the Luftwaffe that was completed in 1940. There the top speed was listed as 390mph (interesting that it also states the wing was 167 square feet) and it noted that the plane was in production. Reports of 113's encountered and shot down were listed throughout the early years of the war.

He-100 ~> http://www.fact-index.com/h/he/heinkel_he_100.html

The LaGG fighter is another story that continues today and offers behvioral researchers some fascinating clinical samples of flight simmer Psycho behavior among "blue" or "JG" squad players, where the flight simmers use the name LaGG-5 for La-5, as the Luftwaffe in WW2 continued to use the LaGG name for later La designs, so do the flight simmers who memorize, and become mezmerized by, classic scanned Luftwaffe documents. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JG53Frankyboy
11-07-2006, 05:49 AM
commenwealth pilots fighting over Malya 1942 claimed they met Bf109 in the air http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

so, i would not call the air identification a science http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
what the enemy used, not to talkk about how he was calling it, was rather unknown in these days !

PBNA-Boosher
11-07-2006, 09:16 AM
Wikipedia seems to argue that it was a VERY early prototype version of the I-185... but I'm not so sure. Could they have meant the I-17, which was the prototype version of the MiG-3?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://xs34.xs.to/pics/05251/Booshersig2.jpg

"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

3.JG51_BigBear
11-07-2006, 09:40 AM
I'm pretty sure I-18 meant a Yak fighter to the Germans early in the war.

Chuck_Older
11-07-2006, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Wikipedia seems to argue that it was a VERY early prototype version of the I-185... but I'm not so sure. Could they have meant the I-17, which was the prototype version of the MiG-3?

Wiki is like any other reference, no better and often times worse http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Always double check references in Wiki. Would you like Wiki to say that the I-18 was the first Soviet Spaceship to land on the moon and mine swiss cheese? If so, I can make that happen for you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/Jimmychamp.jpg
Flower of Scotland, will we see your like again?

JG53Frankyboy
11-07-2006, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Hanglands:
Hi again,

Perhaps I mistunderstand this but....

"Meanwhile, staying from 1 July at Stary Bychov airfield, Jagdgeschwader 51 was still effectively fighting the opponent???s air forces. On 5 July, to the north of Minsk, a group of six bombers Tupolew SB-2 was taken over and all of them were shot down within two minutes. Two of them fell victim to M??lders, who five hours later sent to the ground burning with flames two <span class="ev_code_RED">I-18 fighters, also known as Yakovlev Yak-1</span>."

I found this at http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/molders/molders.htm

why do people here still ignore the post above ???

tom19073
11-07-2006, 11:03 AM
I found a small discription of I-18 fighter at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_military_aircraft_designation_systems

Take a look below...


Fighters
I-1: Polikarpov
I-2: Grigorovich
I-3: Polikarpov (1-seat biplane with open cockpit and fixed undercarriage)
I-4: Tupolev ANT-5 (1-seat sesquiplane)
I-5: Polikarpov-Grigorovich. First was Tupolev I-5 (ANT-12), later Polikarpov-Grigorovich I-6 was renamed to I-5.
I-6: Polikarpov-Grigorovich. Renamed to I-5 after wining competition with Tupolev I-5.
I-7: Polikarpov (German He 37c)
I-8: Tupolev ANT-13 (prototype only)
I-9: Grigorovich
I-10: Grigorovich
I-11: Polikarpov
I-12: Tupolev (ANT-23)
I-13: Polikarpov
I-14: Tupolev ANT-31 (1-seat monoplane with enclosed cockpit and retractable undercarriage)
I-15: Polikarpov TsKB-3 (1-seat biplane with `gull' upper wing open cockpit and fixed undercarriage)
I-15bis/I-152: Polikarpov TsKB-3bis (re-engined and other minor changes)
I-15ter/I-153: Polikarpov TsKB-3ter (re-engined and retractable undercarriage)
I-16: Polikarpov TsKB-12/18/29 (1-seat monoplane with open cockpit and retractable undercarriage)
I-17: Polikarpov TsKB-15/19/33 (1-seat monoplane with in-line engine and retractable undercarriage)
I-18: Polikarpov (TzKB-43). Later Polikarpov began use 3-digit designation and again used "18th" index in I-180, I-185 etc.
I-19: Polikarpov (TzKB-25). Later Polikarpov I-190.
I-200 or I-61: Polikarpov and later Mikoyan-Gurevich (later designated MiG-1)
I-21: Ilyushin (Pashinin I-21 (only 5 built) is type 21 of Plant No 21 and designated probably as "istrebitel of 21th plant")
I-22: Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov (later designated LaGG-1)
I-26: Yakovlev Krasavec `Beauty' (later designated Yak-1). But really index '26' is from Yakovlev AIR seria.
I-28: Yatsenko (constructed from resin-bonded wood)

boxmike
11-07-2006, 01:49 PM
Nasty one. Yet I thought this was discussed here with correct answer aeons ago.
MiG was first one to get onto mind but no avail.
Leaves one with a feeling that it was I-16 after all. By googling you'll find mentions of Spanish Civil war with I-18 claimings. Hardly I-180.

Rgds,
- box<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Walter Mitty from Hell.