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View Full Version : VOW/VEF- A waste of time after all?



SeaFireLIV
02-26-2004, 06:57 PM
Was flying on a VOW mission with a Squad wingman. It was a good sortie, unfortunately my wingman got shot down. Anyway, to get to the point:

Elsewhere in the mission the host was somehow killed by friendly fire or his own wingie collided with him or something. I never found out what happened, we were not in the same area, but he started really complaining and going on. He got so mad he started cursing in his native tongue - German!
When i asked him what was wrong he wouldn`t respond, he seemed that mad.

Anyway, seeing that it was nothing to do with me I went and landed safely back at base. A VOW mission survived.

Later, this week, my Squad wingman mentioned that our German host had not submitted the mission for VOW! Which meant everything done in that mission was basically cancelled!

I did not know much of the intricacies of VOW and never hosted. But if VOW missions are dependent on the host submitting them what`s the point? If anything bad happens he just doesn`t bother, or (as I`ve heard) he could even doctor the file!

I checked my file on the VOW site and indeed my last mission never happened, though I survived.

I heard this can be done in VEF too.

It`s really made me feel that VOW/VEF is pointless, if this sort of thing can happen. What`s the ruddy point flying VOW/VEF?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/little_armsFB.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

SeaFireLIV
02-26-2004, 06:57 PM
Was flying on a VOW mission with a Squad wingman. It was a good sortie, unfortunately my wingman got shot down. Anyway, to get to the point:

Elsewhere in the mission the host was somehow killed by friendly fire or his own wingie collided with him or something. I never found out what happened, we were not in the same area, but he started really complaining and going on. He got so mad he started cursing in his native tongue - German!
When i asked him what was wrong he wouldn`t respond, he seemed that mad.

Anyway, seeing that it was nothing to do with me I went and landed safely back at base. A VOW mission survived.

Later, this week, my Squad wingman mentioned that our German host had not submitted the mission for VOW! Which meant everything done in that mission was basically cancelled!

I did not know much of the intricacies of VOW and never hosted. But if VOW missions are dependent on the host submitting them what`s the point? If anything bad happens he just doesn`t bother, or (as I`ve heard) he could even doctor the file!

I checked my file on the VOW site and indeed my last mission never happened, though I survived.

I heard this can be done in VEF too.

It`s really made me feel that VOW/VEF is pointless, if this sort of thing can happen. What`s the ruddy point flying VOW/VEF?http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/little_armsFB.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

WUAF_Badsight
02-26-2004, 10:13 PM
the point of flying the VEF is getting kills for the LW to prove that the undermoddeled planes can also get kills

sorry for the hijack

Maj_Death
02-26-2004, 10:42 PM
That violates the rules of both VEF and VOW. You are supposed to report hosts who do that instead of coming over here and b*tching about it. VOW even has a special button for you to push to complain about players.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.

carguy_
02-26-2004, 11:11 PM
I wouldn`t care much about it.80% of missions are reported.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

tttiger
02-27-2004, 01:15 AM
To answer the question in your thread topic, yes they both are a waste of time.

VOW is a LW shooting gallery. If the mission is written by a LW pilot, the plane set is (almost) always biased. The crappiest VVS planes of that era usually are all that are available. Run by a LW squad, is it not? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VEF has all the drawbacks of computer-generated missions. It doesn't have the LW bias VOW has but the missions are not very clever or realistic IMHO.

BOTH of them encourage score-whoring and discourage cooperation. In that sense, neither is the least bit realistic. If you have members of your own squad in there with you, you can get some coordinated effort going. Otherwise, it's every man for himself. All that matters is looking good on the ladders.

Tried 'em both. Left 'em both.

Coops still rule for me. Hand-written missions and no score ladders. It still isn't real but people on the same side do work together and individual scores don't matter.

I know lots fly them and enjoy them and I'm not suggesting anyone stop playing them. They just aren't my cup of tea.

"Full Real" to me doesn't mean your settings. It means the context of the mission you are flying. Neither VOW or VEF have any relation to the way battles really are fought. They should both have a disclaimer like movies: "Any similarity to real combat is strictly coincidental." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My two cents.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

SeaFireLIV
02-27-2004, 03:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:
That violates the rules of both VEF and VOW. You are supposed to report hosts who do that instead of coming over here and b*tching about it. VOW even has a special button for you to push to complain about players.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The F7F Tigercat in Aces Over the Pacific is overmodeled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason I come here *****ing as you put it was for advice and to confirm whether this was possible or just some weird fluke. This has confirmed it is possible. Now I can go VOW and ***** properly. Also if I was really *****ing (censored again!) I`d name the host here, which of course I won`t do.

Also, as a General discussion of IL2/FB I`m full in my right to inform others of possible negative/positives of these things which non VOW players may need to know, Maj Death!


Chances are I may stop doing VOW/VEF altogether after this obvious ability to cheat in VOW.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/little_armsFB.jpg
The Fights continue out of the Servers...

Michcich_303
02-27-2004, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
He got so mad he started cursing in his native tongue - German!
When i asked him what was wrong he wouldn`t respond, he seemed that mad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, they`re mad. That`s why they started that war after all :P

http://212.160.164.234/~apacz/phpBB2/images/photos/d54c698c3f19b121b9889.jpg

AWL_Spinner
02-27-2004, 03:29 AM
I feel your pain there SeaFireLIV, it's happened a few times and for many reasons (host's connection/computer, anality as described) but it's worth sticking with.

VOW is always reliant on participants being honorable, for hosts as well as players abiding by the rules, and it's organisers seem pretty clued up and will take action where action is necessary. File your report, certainly. Nearly all the players on there take the thing seriously, after all it's a lot of effort and waiting around for no gain if people screw the system up.

Probably 95% of the missions I've flown on VOW run their course and get recorded, and for me the benefits of flying (often) squadron vs squadron in an organised environment with full statistical recording far outweigh the disadvantages. It's the best flying I've done, and I like being able to look back at a record of my (admittedly mediocre) performance. VEF is significantly different in nature but offers many of the same advantages.

For the record I'm in a VVS squad and I don't think the mission balance is too absurd (sometimes it makes you chuckle, but then those matchups happened in real life, too).

Cheers,

Spinner

http://www.alliedwingedlegion.com/members/signatures/spinner_sig.jpg

Fehler
02-27-2004, 03:54 AM
In VOW you can report the host and he will be summoned to some sort of VOW court. There is penalty for being found guilty.

ttt, I disagree with you. Most of the missions are written by VVS players. Those missions are disgustingly difficult. Kill 8 Pe-2's with G-2's against 8 escorts. But I do agree, some of the OKL generated missions can be equally biased. Your post suggests that ONLY OKL missions are that way.. big incorrect-a-mundo!

I do agree about point whoring.. But in any game where there is no real consequence for dying, there will be point mongers that just have to see their names on top of a killboard.

My biggest problem with the arenas are this. There are so many diverse hosts that for the most part the pings are horrible. There is nothing worst than getting bounced, evading with a nice scissor move to be shot down by that plane as he fires 90 degrees off your port wing. In Olegs wacky "The worst ping wins" netcode, the afternoon Euros that have 2400 baud modems usually rule both arenas. That's why I have all but given up on them.

The same thing happens on servers like Greatergreen. You have a particular squad that comes in and pings (Average) 500-600! Now, against a guy pinging 60, what do you think happens? The slow pinger's computer says.. I just hit PlaneX. But PlaneX is a half a second ahead of where SlowPinger shows him on his computer. Result... SlowPinger kills PlaneX while PlaneX was never hit on his computer... not even close. Advantage? Slowpinger in a turn and burn plane. Gee, go figure why that particular squad refuses to fly LW on Greatergreen, and why the slower pinging squads fly VVS in VOW and VEF. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In all other online games, the best ping wins. Look at Counterstrike, Ultima-Online, etc. he key to being a monster in those games is 1. Being a good player. 2. Having great ping.

Well, I wont rant any longer on the netcode.. or lack there of.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

pacettid
02-27-2004, 05:25 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tttiger:
VOW is a LW shooting gallery. If the mission is written by a LW pilot, the plane set is (almost) always biased. The crappiest VVS planes of that era usually are all that are available. Run by a LW squad, is it not? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VEF has all the drawbacks of computer-generated missions. It doesn't have the LW bias VOW has but the missions are not very clever or realistic IMHO.

BOTH of them encourage score-whoring and discourage cooperation. In that sense, neither is the least bit realistic. If you have members of your own squad in there with you, you can get some coordinated effort going. Otherwise, it's every man for himself. All that matters is looking good on the ladders.

Tried 'em both. Left 'em both.

"Full Real" to me doesn't mean your settings. It means the context of the mission you are flying. Neither VOW or VEF have any relation to the way battles really are fought. They should both have a disclaimer like movies: "Any similarity to real combat is strictly coincidental." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[QUOTE]

I could not agree more!

Yum_Yum
02-27-2004, 05:36 AM
Hello http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fehler: I would like to say "Thank you" for putting into the correct words what I have been unable to explain or understand for many months.

I have used some servers with a low ping of 18 and see everyone as lagging, and have been unable to find the reason.
Thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't use VOW or VEF and have no comments to make, I only stopped by to say thanks to Fehler for the enlightenment.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
02-27-2004, 05:40 AM
the VEF is computer generated

if you want a complex involved mission you need a human maker

the VEF is the best online war going & tttigers experience with the VEF should not be taken as how VEF is

mostly its squads working together

blaming a Virtual War for being lame because of point whoring , couldnt care if they are killed players is hardly a argument let alone a point

the VEF comes as close to a continuous representation of the WW2 using FB as the platform as FB will ever come too

Heavy_Weather
02-27-2004, 06:05 AM
good point too, if you were to look at the VOW homepage at the moment, you'll see exactly that. on the right side of the page where it tells if blue or red won, theres nothing but a date of the games played. these and many other issues are the reasons i've been flying alot offline lately. i love the online aspect, but man, there sure are alot of b|itches who are playing these days. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"The wise man is often the man who plays dumb."

Bansai Potato
02-27-2004, 06:16 AM
Seafire old bean, create the coop .txt file in your IL2FB directory, then whenever you are going to do a coop/vef/vow simply delete all text contained within the document, then once mission is complete you have your own vef/vow log which can be exported and analysed in MS Word, combine this with all allied flyers logs and post them to the VOW/VEF forums, maybe with enough pilots logs the mission will be counted without the clearly dis-honourable hosts report, and even better still the host gets his mistakes published on the forums, and a little bit of name and shame time, fairly soon people wont fly if he is going to host. Who wants a host who will only report missions that he/shes succesful in?

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/Ede_EAF92/EAF/24890632.92EastIndiaSquadronpersonnel.jpg

Tvrdi
02-27-2004, 07:15 AM
Fehler wrote: "In VOW you can report the host and he will be summoned to some sort of VOW court. There is penalty for being found guilty"

thats right, thats the reason im flying only VOW in the last few weeks...I ws frustrated in VEF when I noticed that squads (russians mostly) using their smoke when smomeone beats them nin maneuvers and is on their 6...so they use smokes and lights for calling help....almost in all latest vef missions I got kiled when i was chasing someone because he would simply turn on his lights and smoke and he is visible in distance and his teammates going for you then...well guys I dont think this is ok and and playable and enjoyable (I know that smoke and lights in combat are permitted in VEF but using them on this way is poor performance and behaviour...cheatting i would say...) so f the VEF......

Tvrdi
02-27-2004, 07:16 AM
lol sorry for typing errors i was typing fast cause Im in the office :-)))

Tooz_69GIAP
02-27-2004, 07:56 AM
VOW and VEF are simply excuses for a big furball wrapped up in a mission environment.

If you are looking for a more team based war, where working together is what is important, and getting home safely, then you should try flying Forgotten Skies.

www.forgottenskies.com (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

Simply register your squad there, and apply to the appropriate secret bunker (Allied or Axis), and that will be you.

There is usually a mission a day, and these missions are known to last up to 1hr 30mins (at least, they were, time for completion has been reduce by 15mins). Full real, with speedbar only, voice comms are essential, and the mission objective more important than getting kills.

Drop by and check it out.

Tooz

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg
Za Rodinu!

Atzebrueck
02-27-2004, 08:05 AM
regarding the cheat: There is no possibilty to prevent it in a log-based online war.
Everything we can do is to offer a court system. If you want to blame a host, you have to do it yourself, as we admins can't observe the HL all the time and compare the number of hosted missions with the number of reports.

If you think that all VOW-/VEF-pilots are flying for points and kills, you certainly flew with the wrong ones http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

http://c.f.hahne.bei.t-online.de/signatur.jpg (http://www.vow-hq.com)

[This message was edited by Atzebrueck on Fri February 27 2004 at 07:17 AM.]

SeaFireLIV
02-27-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Classic_EAF92:
Seafire old bean, create the coop .txt file in your IL2FB directory, then whenever you are going to do a coop/vef/vow simply delete all text contained within the document, then once mission is complete you have your own vef/vow log which can be exported and analysed in MS Word, combine this with all allied flyers logs and post them to the VOW/VEF forums, maybe with enough pilots logs the mission will be counted without the clearly dis-honourable hosts report, and even better still the host gets his mistakes published on the forums, and a little bit of name and shame time, fairly soon people wont fly if he is going to host. Who wants a host who will only report missions that he/shes succesful in?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, thnx Classic. Good stuiff, m8. Thnax to the rest of you for the help. I don`t want to give up VEF or VOW, so anything to deter this is a great help.

I know if I hosted and suddenly was killed by a falling rock, well so be it! I`d let the others fly on and go make a cup of tea or something - and still submit the file!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/P47duck.jpg

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Fri February 27 2004 at 09:35 AM.]

p1ngu666
02-27-2004, 10:46 AM
nice jug http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
btw, lag cuts both ways :P

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
02-27-2004, 11:41 AM
reguarding lights & smoke ....

asking for help is only fair

if you want to lone wolf ...... well thats not what the VEF is about

using every possible thing to help you survive is what any payer with common sence does