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View Full Version : AI is much easier now than in the past....



Jumoschwanz
09-25-2005, 10:35 PM
I did a fresh install of this sim a few days ago doing some work on my hard drive and re-installing my OS.

I tried out some QMB scenarios in FB 1.0 that I had recently been playing in version 4.01m, and I was amazed at how much more vicious and aggressive the ace AI was. One scenario was me in a 109G2 vs four ace Yak3 fighters, man were they tough compared to the current patch!

Also, in the original IL2, which I still have on one of my rigs, the AI is also very much different to battle. The flight models were a lot less complex then, and it is funny when I-16 fighters zoom up with your 109g6a/s after a short time. Also the gunnery was much more of a challenge in the original IL2 as the planes would take many more hits to bring down than in the current patch of the sim.
Anyone who thinks this sim is tough now should check out the old IL2 and/or FB 1.0!
Everything is easier now than in the old original IL2 and the early FB patches.
And not only is everything easier as far as flying and fighting, everything is much better now too. Everythng about the sim feels better and more real. Some of the old FM behavior was very odd. Even in FB1.0 when you did a loop, at the top of the loop it was as if the plane would be mounted on a rollercoaster ride upside-down, it kind of locks into position, goes over, then hands control back to you. The original IL2 was like this also even to a greater degree.

And boy I can imagine the howls if those newer to the sim had to fly the older FMs. There was no throwing the planes around hard like now, they really stalled easy in a lot of the patches and were much harder to fly on the edge.

We sure have it good now..... Thanks Oleg and crew for all the work!


Jumoschwanz

Badsight.
09-25-2005, 10:53 PM
its a lot harder to fly & control planes "at the limit" in the old IL2:Sturmovik game than in any version of FB

Vacillator
09-26-2005, 02:16 AM
Thanks for that, you've confirmed what I thought without doing some testing. Particularly the bit about stalling. This rarely happens to me now and when it does I can usually get out of it easily. Now it could be me, or my better hardware such as CH Pro rudder pedals, but I don't think so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
As for the AI, they seem to run away more (and a lot faster) rather than try and fight. I remember spending ages with fighters on my 6, turning like crazy down to the deck. Not any more. Again, could be me understanding energy fighting a lot better or managing the merge better but I don't think that explains it all.
Having said that, I love the current version, so no complaints here, just observations.

Sturm_Williger
09-26-2005, 03:31 AM
The thing I noticed the most with 4.01 and the AI is that now they frequently ( and realistically ) bail from moderate damage.

Before, you had to evade burning planes on your 6 for AGES. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-26-2005, 04:54 AM
Regarding stalling, I agree. Especially online. Whenever a bogey stalls I never leave him like I used to pre-patch because he always manages to pull out from what seems to be a death height! Now I watch them all the way and use my superior alt to finish them off! I think stalls should be more severe, especially when you get real low...

But this is just what I `think` so I could be wrong. maybe this is realistic....

carguy_
09-26-2005, 04:58 AM
Speaking of AI.ACe AI is good and more realistic than earlier IMO.Other AI skill options are non existant.A rookie/average AI just flies,it doesn`t react itself to enemies,it has to have an order to attack issued.

Happened to me 3 times similar situations.There I am flying I spot a bomber formation with no cover.Cover is meant to be AI.I position myself behind the formation to attack.When maneuvering to get a good shot I hear an engine and immediately explosion occures.Guess what.The AI escort was there completely ignoring me following its route but it happened that I crossed that route and siply flew into him!

Kuna15
09-26-2005, 05:42 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Regarding stalling, I agree. Especially online. Whenever a bogey stalls I never leave him like I used to pre-patch because he always manages to pull out from what seems to be a death height! Now I watch them all the way and use my superior alt to finish them off! I think stalls should be more severe, especially when you get real low...

But this is just what I `think` so I could be wrong. maybe this is realistic....

Maybe I'm wrong too, but I share your opinion. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
------------------------------------------------
Also I find it extremely difficult fight Yak-1B vs 4 Bf-109G-2s (ungroupped and 50% fuel). I can not do anything except horizontal turn and force head-on. LA-5 vs 4ӔBf-109G-2s on any settings is laughable because LA-5 eats 'em alive. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stubby
09-26-2005, 08:25 AM
I think there's a couple of factors that extend beyond just 'ai'. the fact that they now fly with the same constraints as their human counterparts is huge. extensive tweaking of gun damage and the levels of damage planes can take also make a huge difference.

they thing i like now is that planes w/ damage perform like they are indeed, damaged. in the old days, AI planes with missing pieces or extensive holes them flew like uber x-planes. the gunnery didn't seem to be based on the same laws of virtual physics as my guns. Etc, etc.. The only good thing about the old days is that it made us all exceptional pilots so that now with things on level playing field, we own them.

Saunders1953
09-26-2005, 08:49 AM
I remember spending ages with fighters on my 6, turning like crazy down to the deck. Not any more. Again, could be me understanding energy fighting a lot better or managing the merge better but I don't think that explains it all.

That's what I'm trying to figure out, too.

Chuck_Older
09-26-2005, 10:21 AM
I disagree that the AI is easier to fight now. You learn what the AI will do in certain situations, and you exploit it. It's also well known that the AI doesn't like to do much besides turn

Kuna15
09-26-2005, 10:54 AM
Chuck you are right there. AI was always easy, cannon fodder regardless of settings, unless they are many vs player.
And besides I think that turning hard on deck still works vs every AI enemy fighter.
That way we can beat ace ai LA-7 in FW-190 turning hard on deck and manoeuvering.

MLudner
09-26-2005, 01:56 PM
AI now flies a little more intelligently. I have learned that if I want a brawl never give an AI Ace a faster plane or he just runs away until I get exasperated and pretend to break-off in hopes of luring him into a brawl when he tries to sneak up on me. It's a dangerous trick, though.
The new AI will use superior - or AI hyper chargers - speed to avoid fighting at a disadvantage.

Sometimes I like it, sometimes it annoys the screw out of me.



She was like a bearded rainbow drinking a strange brew in the sunshine of your love in her white room at a crossroads dreaming tales of brave Ulysses during a blue condition with her toad thinking she should take it back.

msalama
09-26-2005, 02:38 PM
...but if you're looking for a brawl, then just give them something lo-tek w/ enough AC and manpower http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I just made this mission where 4 Hungarian Fiat Cr.42s are on their way to bomb Smolensk airport, and I'm the lone guy intercepting them with my trusty old I-153. And whaddaya know - those AI blokes fight tooth and nail, but not _nearly_ as stupid as before! I even see an attempt of teamplaying there if I stretch my imagination http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I usually get like 2 or 3 of them before I have to haul a**e because I'm either shot to s**t or out of ammo. At which point the remaining bogies might very well get _me_ if I'm really bleeding!

Great stuff that bi-plane dogfighting, BTW. Very spiffy and gentlemanly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Tally howski, is what I say!

MLudner
09-26-2005, 04:20 PM
I just give 'em something slower, but good. Then the little chicken-(expletive deleted)s can't get away and have to fight it out whether they like it or not. The only problem is the AI hyper-charged aircraft, as to where the best I'll have is a mere, pathetic little super-charger. A P-51 is faster than a Bf-109G10 ... unless I'm flying the Mustang.



She was like a bearded rainbow drinking a strange brew in the sunshine of your love in her white room at a crossroads dreaming tales of brave Ulysses during a blue condition with her toad thinking she should take it back.

joeap
09-27-2005, 03:19 AM
MLudner, I agree AI is more of a challenge. BTW I see by your sig you like 60s music or what? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

dangio1968
09-27-2005, 05:33 AM
well, I'd say The Cream of 60's music... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MLudner
09-27-2005, 08:18 PM
Indeed, Cream ranks high on my list. That sentence contains the title of each of my favorite Cream songs.
I was listening to Disraeli Gears at the time. Glad to see I am not alone.


She was like a bearded rainbow drinking a strange brew in the sunshine of your love in her white room at a crossroads dreaming tales of brave Ulysses during a blue condition with her toad thinking she should take it back.

Jumoschwanz
09-28-2005, 07:28 PM
I did not remember the AI being any harder in fb1.0 than in the current patch until I flew 1.0 again. If you say you can remember how the AI was a few years ago when it has been that long since you flew 1.0 then you are full of sh it.

And now MLudner, you will learn that if you want a brawl with AI in 4.01, it does not matter what plane they are in or how fast they are, all you have to do is simply turn parallel or away from them and they will come right back to you as long as they are not damaged and have enough gas.

And Chuck, Hurry! there is a thread about the original IL2 with no patches installed, you can run over there and tell them how they really are not experiencing what is right in front of them because you remember it differently from four years ago!

Jumoschwanz

MLudner
10-03-2005, 05:21 PM
And now MLudner, you will learn that if you want a brawl with AI in 4.01, it does not matter what plane they are in or how fast they are, all you have to do is simply turn parallel or away from them and they will come right back to you as long as they are not damaged and have enough gas.


Jumoschwanz[/QUOTE]

?
"I have learned that if I want a brawl never give an AI Ace a faster plane or he just runs away until I get exasperated and and pretend to break-off in hopes of luring him into a brawl when he tries to sneak up on me It's a dangerous trick, though."

Also, on occasion, I lose them pulling it.

DaimonSyrius
10-04-2005, 04:27 AM
There are two questions I (mentally) shout at the A.I. sometimes:

"Do you "~@ers ever black out!?"

and,

(at A.I. bomber gunners) "Don't you ever get shot and killed"?

I find that last one particularly annoying, it's frustrating when you are watching your shots hammering the gunner position and the guy just keeps shooting until the whole aircraft is destroyed or they bail out. Lucky #~@ards I say! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Same happens with gunners in boats and subs, btw, even though they should be all exposed there, in open air with no armour at all.

S.

Bearcat99
10-04-2005, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Sturm_Williger:
The thing I noticed the most with 4.01 and the AI is that now they frequently ( and realistically ) bail from moderate damage.

Before, you had to evade burning planes on your 6 for AGES. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

LOL... Burning smoking hulks..... that wouyldnt explode untill the blasted you to pieces....LMAO... Plus I think the AI in 1.0 from what I remember was way too accurate.... Headons just were barely possible.. you had to break away at at least a 35-45 degree angle just to survive if you had the AI on Ace.... and if yoiu did that too soon they would be on you like white o n rice untill you were down. At least that was my experience.