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Baylor6
11-09-2007, 09:17 AM
Good morning, all! It's a quiet morning at work and I thought I'd take a few moments.

I'm 59. When I was in my 20's, I was in the U.S. Army overseas, including Okinawa, Thailand and Vietnam towards the end of the war there. My job was with the staff in Saigon so I never got shot at, thank goodness!

In those days, the Soviet Union was the "Evil Empire" and it was illegal here in the United States to buy anything made in Mainland China.

We were taught that countries behind the "Iron Curtain" had no individual freedom and that our way of life was superior.

Now look at us! China is a major trading partner of the United States. When I fly in Hyperlobby I'm flying against pilots from all over the world, including portions of the old Soviet Union and Mainland China. All of us have internet access and can fly against each other, messge each other, and talk with each other through programs such as Teamspeak.

We take this for granted! Yet it is a very different world than 35 years ago. Do you younger flyers take this for granted?

These musings came about after I looked at photos of an exhibition in Moscow that Evgeny posted on the 1C site. Photos of young folk playing IL2. They could have been kids anywhere.

It's a better world!

Philosophizing done!

BaylorMax

general_kalle
11-09-2007, 09:22 AM
im probably one of those that you would call young.

and you know, i have never known the iron curtain but i guess that we should appreciate the open relation in HL and such.

good post

Blood_Splat
11-09-2007, 09:29 AM
Yup the world marches to a different tune now.

T_O_A_D
11-09-2007, 09:42 AM
New world, and yet we still can't completley get along globally.

I truly think the only way we will, become a global community, is have the Aliens show up LOL

The internet has provided myself some very good freinds from all corners of the globe.

I wish I could learn everybodies language, so I could get more.

But my 42 year old brain really bulls up on it when I try.

GADGET_101ECV
11-09-2007, 09:52 AM
My doubts about a better world.

There are more small intensity wars nowadays and 10 year old children fight them.
There is more famine nowadays, but big nations simply look away.
Economic powers break havoc on small nations for mere economic interests.
Slavery of 8 year old children is not a novelty anymore.
Western citizens are not sure in any place anymore.
Rate of unemployment and cheap salaries are increasing.
Etc.

Of course it is a better world if you sit your fat *** on a confy sofa and watch sitcoms on TV all afternoon (or just checking how the war/s is/are going) while drinking imported beer while ignoring what really is going on on the world. No doubt about it.

Next time, think that for every beer you drink, maybe a child in a small depressed country died in slavery conditions just to extract the aluminum the can is maked of. Or that in Africa a 12 year old girl is ripped by soldiers that protect the interests of the same western world company that extracts the same aluminum. And that some 10.000 employees were fired in Europe, just to move the aluminum company to a small Asian/African/SouthAmerican country, because of the slave labor conditions there.

Precisely, the mention of the U.S. Army on this thread is not a step in the right pace towards discussing a better world, as either was mentioning the coutry that most ingnores what the word "world" means and promotes the most the situations above mentioned.

All said, and keep your "cheap" philosophizing for the right forums. This is a simulation forum.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2007, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Baylor6:
Good morning, all! It's a quiet morning at work and I thought I'd take a few moments.

I'm 59. When I was in my 20's, I was in the U.S. Army overseas, including Okinawa, Thailand and Vietnam towards the end of the war there. My job was with the staff in Saigon so I never got shot at, thank goodness!

In those days, the Soviet Union was the "Evil Empire" and it was illegal here in the United States to buy anything made in Mainland China.

We were taught that countries behind the "Iron Curtain" had no individual freedom and that our way of life was superior.

Now look at us! China is a major trading partner of the United States. When I fly in Hyperlobby I'm flying against pilots from all over the world, including portions of the old Soviet Union and Mainland China. All of us have internet access and can fly against each other, messge each other, and talk with each other through programs such as Teamspeak.

We take this for granted! Yet it is a very different world than 35 years ago. Do you younger flyers take this for granted?

These musings came about after I looked at photos of an exhibition in Moscow that Evgeny posted on the 1C site. Photos of young folk playing IL2. They could have been kids anywhere.

It's a better world!

Philosophizing done!

BaylorMax

Don`t say that to blitpig_DDT. He`ll call you one of them and brand you a commie for life. Apparently, he`s still living in the 1950s.

scaredycat1
11-09-2007, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
My doubts about a better world.

There are more small intensity wars nowadays and 10 year old children fight them.
There is more famine nowadays, but big nations simply look away.
Economic powers break havoc on small nations for mere economic interests.
Slavery of 8 year old children is not a novelty anymore.
Western citizens are not sure in any place anymore.
Rate of unemployment and cheap salaries are increasing.
Etc.

Of course it is a better world if you sit your fat *** on a confy sofa and watch sitcoms on TV all afternoon (or just checking how the war/s is/are going) while drinking imported beer while ignoring what really is going on on the world. No doubt about it.

Next time, think that for every beer you drink, maybe a child in a small depressed country died in slavery conditions just to extract the aluminum the can is maked of. Or that in Africa a 12 year old girl is ripped by soldiers that protect the interests of the same western world company that extracts the same aluminum. And that some 10.000 employees were fired in Europe, just to move the aluminum company to a small Asian/African/SouthAmerican country, because of the slave labor conditions there.

Precisely, the mention of the U.S. Army on this thread is not a step in the right pace towards discussing a better world, as either was mentioning the coutry that most ingnores what the word "world" means and promotes the most the situations above mentioned.

All said, and keep your "cheap" philosophizing for the right forums. This is a simulation forum.



lame....

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2007, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:

I truly think the only way we will, become a global community, is have the Aliens show up LOL

.

I have thought and even `wished` this in my earlier days, because that is what it would take to get the WHOLE of humanity dropping their differences and working togther, even if the Aliens wiped us out (probably no happy ending but at least mankind would be together as one).

But it`s a dumb wish, cos it won`t happen.

You woulda thought when we got pictures of Earth all by itself alone from space point of view and saw how we are all on the same ball of mud, alone, in it together that things would change...but no. We just forgot about it and carried on with different conflicts...

Worf101
11-09-2007, 10:34 AM
IBTL

Wow what divergent points of view. But a rational, thinking person would have to admit as Dickens did lo those many years ago...

"It was the best of times..
It was the worst of times."

Perspective is a peculiar thing. Back when the "Happy Days" 50's nostalgia boom was going on I always laughed at it. Never whatched an episode, ignored the fad. When people asked why I was so down on it. I told them quite simply that the '50's were great if you were a white, American Male, pretty chitty if you were anyone anywhere else. At that point the conversation usually ended quite quickly.

For me, as ever it is the best and worst of times. I have comfort and most of my "wants" but at what cost? My family is healthy as am I and my son's a good knucklehead. But I can't turn my head away when I see families living beneath an overpass. It's not in me. And as meager as their lives may be I know that no one wakes up wanting to be homeless... drug addicted, ignorant or poor.

I was born and raised poor. I, through luck and work, got out of poverty. But I also know that I could be poor again tomorrow should the global powers deem it desirable. I've no illusions about the permanence of my status, health or wealth. That's what separates many in this world... the sense of entitlement, the illusion that you deserve what you have irregardless of the cost, because you're you...

This feeling is a hard one to shake for some. But not for me, cause I knew I came here entitled to nothing.

Da Worfster

DrHerb
11-09-2007, 10:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif 110% right on BC

PBNA-Boosher
11-09-2007, 10:45 AM
There was a rather amazing video I saw from the TED lecture series in Monterey, California, that deals partly with this topic. It was very cool. Essentially, the professor has been trying for years to get statistics out from the UN to try to destabilize the pre-conceived ideas that our society hangs onto and push it into the 21st century. He talks briefly on the number of internet users per country and we see that the majority of countries now have a vast number of internet users. It's really worth a watch, some of the data is rather shocking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVimVzgtD6w

Airmail109
11-09-2007, 10:45 AM
We're all boned anyway. Communism didn't work and nor shall capitalism once we've used every resource there is.

But yes, its a slightly better world. Humans have a bit more awareness these days. International understanding is certainly better than it was.

polak5
11-09-2007, 10:45 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg/300px-The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg

Divine-Wind
11-09-2007, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
[Snip]
No one has said there aren't wars going on.

No one has said there aren't any more famines.

No one has said there aren't any countries exploiting their neighbors for economic gain.

No one has said slavery has been completely abolished.

No one has said unemployment rates and cheap salaries aren't on the rise.

Nothing has been mentioned about the world being perfect, we all know that. We can turn on CNN and we've got death, destruction, and evil crammed down our throats.
And how is mentioning the branch of the military he worked for taking a step to discuss a better world?


All said, and keep your "cheap" philosophizing for the right forums. This is a simulation forum.
How is his post "Cheap philosophy?" All he's saying is that the world is a much different place overall, and comparing the way things were 30 years ago to how they are today. I see nothing cheap about that.

(LOL BC, very creative insults there)

Vanderstok
11-09-2007, 11:24 AM
I think I understand your feelings Baylor. I'm not nearly as old yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but when I was going to highschool (1980) all we ever talked about was the cold war, threat of nuclear war, if we should have (nuclear) cruise missiles in our country etc. It was a totally different era.
Certainly for the countries in the west the freedom and prosperaty we have now is absolutely unparalelled in history! And yes, unfortenately, most people, not just the young ones, take this for granted...

BlitzPig_DDT
11-09-2007, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Don`t say that to blitpig_DDT. He`ll call you one of them and brand you a commie for life. Apparently, he`s still living in the 1950s.

No Liv, commies are evil. Has nothing to do with the 50s. Everything in that sig has a meaning but you're too busy thinking your 5#17 doesn't stink and supporting revocation of freedoms and implementing gov't mandated safety nets (or even supporting people who are evil like that), to comprehend.

lol No, I'm not "living in the 1950s", you're just too weak minded to cope with true freedom and independence.

People like you are why Uncle Joe isn't seen for the evil that he was (far worse than Hitler - and that's saying something).

Divine-Wind
11-09-2007, 11:54 AM
Communists aren't evil, not as a whole. They just think differently than you.

LEBillfish
11-09-2007, 11:57 AM
From roughly 12-24 I was shuffled around the world from S.E.Asia, Africa, S. & Central America...Now at 43, I've over the past 10 years travled back to some of these places....The differences/changes in many are stunning on the surface, yet under it all many still retain a true third world bygone days aura...Yet that's fading too.

Some of it good, some bad....In the end simply natural.

ploughman
11-09-2007, 12:25 PM
That's true enough, I was brought up in Europe, the Mid-East, SE Asia and finished it all off with a year and a half in the USA, 15 years later I doubt I'd recognise any of it. The past is a different country. One thing I recollect as the chief horror of my childhood was being told, on a school visit to my local ambulance station in the late '70s, that when the big siren on top went of it meant we had four minutes until the SS-20s hit. Since the early 1990s kids haven't had to grow up under that shadow, and that's a good thing.

Genie-
11-09-2007, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
New world, and yet we still can't completley get along globally.

I truly think the only way we will, become a global community, is have the Aliens show up LOL



I am saying this all the time too!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

no really.. that would be instant solution! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ppl would join together because of natural urge..

hm..now that i am saying that.. maybe some governments are denying all of those sightings and contacts with aliens because they do not want us to all get together.. divide and rule..

hmmmmm..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

smokincrater
11-09-2007, 12:50 PM
Being born in Sydney Australia in 1978. I never worried about an nuclear exchange or anything like that. All I worried about were the Cricket scores against the West Indies(mind you not a lot of adults did anyway, being far down the list on the Kermlins target board)!
But Gadet does have a point we in the west, do take a lot for granted. Touring Bali early this year. There is a lot of people in the world that think having a roof over their head and warm and secure place to stay is Heaven!
As reguards to whether it is better to be dead than red. Well all I say is have decency to let the people of that particular country decide which way they want to go for themselves. And if its not for them, let them do something about it(Vietnam And Gulf Wars).

Huxley_S
11-09-2007, 12:56 PM
These musings came about after I looked at photos of an exhibition in Moscow that Evgeny posted on the 1C site. Photos of young folk playing IL2. They could have been kids anywhere.

What has changed is the way we receive our information. Before the internet we relied on our information from national media sources, which naturally had a national bias.

Now we don't have to be spoon-fed propaganda from our own governments about "Evil Empires" or exaggerated threats to our well-being. We can now easily access a vast amount of information and draw our own conclusions.

That's what's changed and it's great.

Von_Rat
11-09-2007, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
My doubts about a better world.

There are more small intensity wars nowadays and 10 year old children fight them.
There is more famine nowadays, but big nations simply look away.
Economic powers break havoc on small nations for mere economic interests.
Slavery of 8 year old children is not a novelty anymore.
Western citizens are not sure in any place anymore.
Rate of unemployment and cheap salaries are increasing.
Etc.

Of course it is a better world if you sit your fat *** on a confy sofa and watch sitcoms on TV all afternoon (or just checking how the war/s is/are going) while drinking imported beer while ignoring what really is going on on the world. No doubt about it.

Next time, think that for every beer you drink, maybe a child in a small depressed country died in slavery conditions just to extract the aluminum the can is maked of. Or that in Africa a 12 year old girl is ripped by soldiers that protect the interests of the same western world company that extracts the same aluminum. And that some 10.000 employees were fired in Europe, just to move the aluminum company to a small Asian/African/SouthAmerican country, because of the slave labor conditions there.

Precisely, the mention of the U.S. Army on this thread is not a step in the right pace towards discussing a better world, as either was mentioning the coutry that most ingnores what the word "world" means and promotes the most the situations above mentioned.

All said, and keep your "cheap" philosophizing for the right forums. This is a simulation forum.

you are sadly mistaken if you think for a moment that those evil things you mention in your post didnt exist in even worse forms 35 years ago.

smokincrater
11-09-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">These musings came about after I looked at photos of an exhibition in Moscow that Evgeny posted on the 1C site. Photos of young folk playing IL2. They could have been kids anywhere.

What has changed is the way we receive our information. Before the internet we relied on our information from national media sources, which naturally had a national bias.

Now we don't have to be spoon-fed propaganda from our own governments about "Evil Empires" or exaggerated threats to our well-being. We can now easily access a vast amount of information and draw our own conclusions.

That's what's changed and it's great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure I`ve never seen a dead US trooper on my nightly news bulletins(Seen plenty of Iraqi ones).Only SBS in Australia broadcasts any of those pictures. Governments still control a large sector of the media reguardless of the internet.

Jutocsa
11-09-2007, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Baylor6:

In those days, the Soviet Union was the "Evil Empire" and it was illegal here in the United States to buy anything made in Mainland China.

Now Iraq/Iran/random muslim country who is not US ally are the evil countries. Nothing has changed at all, politicans just picked new enemies as the old ones werent powerful or scary enough any more.



We were taught that countries behind the "Iron Curtain" had no individual freedom and that our way of life was superior.

Same...Christians are superior, muslims are all savage beasts, so they say...
And no, its not meant to be flame, just showing that its a different world not necesserely better. And mind you, Im saying it while being old enough to have seen Russkies on our streets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
So I dont take peace and friendly communication granted, because its the very same as 50 years ago.
I agree that the internet changed a lot, I also enjoy meeting many people from various countries. And just to answer your question, Im also young enough to take that for granted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hell, on a usual working day I communicate mostly in English with Russians, Ukrainians, Swiss, etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Von_Rat
11-09-2007, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Baylor6:
Good morning, all! It's a quiet morning at work and I thought I'd take a few moments.

I'm 59. When I was in my 20's, I was in the U.S. Army overseas, including Okinawa, Thailand and Vietnam towards the end of the war there. My job was with the staff in Saigon so I never got shot at, thank goodness!

In those days, the Soviet Union was the "Evil Empire" and it was illegal here in the United States to buy anything made in Mainland China.

We were taught that countries behind the "Iron Curtain" had no individual freedom and that our way of life was superior.

Now look at us! China is a major trading partner of the United States. When I fly in Hyperlobby I'm flying against pilots from all over the world, including portions of the old Soviet Union and Mainland China. All of us have internet access and can fly against each other, messge each other, and talk with each other through programs such as Teamspeak.

We take this for granted! Yet it is a very different world than 35 years ago. Do you younger flyers take this for granted?

These musings came about after I looked at photos of an exhibition in Moscow that Evgeny posted on the 1C site. Photos of young folk playing IL2. They could have been kids anywhere.

It's a better world!

Philosophizing done!

BaylorMax

im 51 and i heartily agree with you.

i remember the terror of growing up at that time. not knowing if the world would even be there tomorrow.

i too am amazed at how far we come.

they;ll be plenty of ignorant people telling you the world is worse off now. they just cant comprehend the world as it was then. otherwise they'd never say such a thing.

slipBall
11-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Don't get to comfortable with the currant situation....it will all change as energy, and food supply's dwindle....

smokincrater
11-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by slipBall:
Don't get to comfortable with the currant situation....it will all change as energy, and food supply's dwindle....

Good point.What will that throw up in the next decade?
Hopefully some rather bright person is coming with the technology to avoid that but thats another topic. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Von_Rat
11-09-2007, 01:18 PM
you forgot global warming. lol.

slipBall
11-09-2007, 01:21 PM
Cooling will be the big problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Wepps
11-09-2007, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by smokincrater:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
Don't get to comfortable with the currant situation....it will all change as energy, and food supply's dwindle....

Good point.What will that throw up in the next decade?
Hopefully some rather bright person is coming with the technology to avoid that but thats another topic. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that's not the case, the Ukraine will be back on the hit list.

JG6_Oddball
11-09-2007, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by GADGET_101ECV:
My doubts about a better world.

There are more small intensity wars nowadays and 10 year old children fight them.
There is more famine nowadays, but big nations simply look away.
Economic powers break havoc on small nations for mere economic interests.
Slavery of 8 year old children is not a novelty anymore.
Western citizens are not sure in any place anymore.
Rate of unemployment and cheap salaries are increasing.
Etc.

Of course it is a better world if you sit your fat *** on a confy sofa and watch sitcoms on TV all afternoon (or just checking how the war/s is/are going) while drinking imported beer while ignoring what really is going on on the world. No doubt about it.

Next time, think that for every beer you drink, maybe a child in a small depressed country died in slavery conditions just to extract the aluminum the can is maked of. Or that in Africa a 12 year old girl is ripped by soldiers that protect the interests of the same western world company that extracts the same aluminum. And that some 10.000 employees were fired in Europe, just to move the aluminum company to a small Asian/African/SouthAmerican country, because of the slave labor conditions there.

Precisely, the mention of the U.S. Army on this thread is not a step in the right pace towards discussing a better world, as either was mentioning the coutry that most ingnores what the word "world" means and promotes the most the situations above mentioned.

All said, and keep your "cheap" philosophizing for the right forums. This is a simulation forum.

Feel better? I know I do....If you believed anything you just wrote I would not be reading it...why? because you would not be here...you would be out doing something about the aforementioned items...but please continue to sit there and be one of those sudo intellectual rebels who do nothing but complain via self engraciating anger while you have your cream cheese bagel and grande latte enema!

S!

JG6_Oddball
11-09-2007, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
New world, and yet we still can't completley get along globally.

I truly think the only way we will, become a global community, is have the Aliens show up LOL


our luck they will be like the borq...and will REALLY know what everyone is thinking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

S!

BSS_Sniper
11-09-2007, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
It still amazes me how little respect some people on these boards have for each other. Gadget took the entire spirit of this post and trashed it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

No one is oblivious to the real problems in the world today... and how dare you!!

You sanctimonious bag of flatulicious wind. If you had taken the time to actually read the post instead of picking it apart and criticizing it.. you would have seen that the poster was merely stating the army in reference to what he was doing at the time. There was no flag waving, no politicizing until you come in here with your nonsense, factual and harsh as it may be. All the guy was saying was that things have changed.. and they have... and this sim reflects that to some degree.. 35 years ago I would not have had the chance to talk to ha,lf the people I know on these boards... because I would not have met them. No one is saying that the world is a rose garden because most of us are adults and we aren't that naive... so keep your political opinions out of this thread. You talk about keeping ones "cheap philosophizing for the right forums.. and then you turn around and do the very thing that you criticize. If you read the post is was in reference to the international appeal of this sim.. and sinmming in general and how todays climate allows this. You are right though.. this is not a political forum so keep your opinions about the state of world affairs to yourself or go to a forum where you can discuss them in full.

You got some nerve... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

and Seafire.... why drag DDT into this? This is how the BS starts.. why can't you people just for frackin once let a thread grow by feeding it instead of planting weeds in it for cryin out loud. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Too bad there's always one person that looks for any excuse to blow hot air without actually reading and/or contributing positively. Good post overall and I agree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ploughman
11-09-2007, 04:04 PM
Well, when it comes to BC I've seen him, as a member of the Forum Committee for anti-American Activities, be first to slam a perfectly reasonable thread about the oldest surviving British WWI grunt because he felt a comment was Anti-American, even thought the comment was brought up by an American poster, and was (allegedly) made by a person who was given an honourary American citizenship by no less an august body than the Congress of the United States of America, that was printed by an American journalist in an American newspaper. That thread went south very quickly, with some very venomous comments made that I found hugely insulting.

So when it comes to BC spouting about sanctimonious, I tend to look the other way in disgust.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2007, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:


and Seafire.... why drag DDT into this? This is how the BS starts.. why can't you people just for frackin once let a thread grow by feeding it instead of planting weeds in it for cryin out loud.

Ok, I was out of order to start that. Not really me. Sorry to the thread poster.

Bearcat99
11-09-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Well, when it comes to BC I've seen him, as a member of the Forum Committee for anti-American Activities, be first to slam a perfectly reasonable thread about the oldest surviving British WWI grunt because he felt a comment was Anti-American, even thought the comment was brought up by an American poster, and was (allegedly) made by a person who was given an honourary American citizenship by no less an august body than the Congress of the United States of America, that was printed by an American journalist in an American newspaper. That thread went south very quickly, with some very venomous comments made that I found hugely insulting.

So when it comes to BC spouting about sanctimonious, I tend to look the other way in disgust.


Fine by me... you look anywhere you want ... I could really care less.... but I stand by what I said... and do you really think this thread is the place for you to drag up old news like that? Or would you like to take it farther south? I remember the thread.. and I stand by my actions. At least I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.... which has happened on more occasions than I care to remember.. Frankly I really don't care what you think of me or my handling of posts on these boards.. I also don't care where a thread originates... tossing a thread overly criticizing any nation -it just seems that the US is everyone's favorite whipping boy these days- on these boards is like tossing fresh raw meat into a shark tank... and I wont have it.. if you don't like it of course you are more than welcome to find another forum. Till then please refrain from leveling not so cloaked insults in my direction...

Airmail109
11-09-2007, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Well, when it comes to BC I've seen him, as a member of the Forum Committee for anti-American Activities, be first to slam a perfectly reasonable thread about the oldest surviving British WWI grunt because he felt a comment was Anti-American, even thought the comment was brought up by an American poster, and was (allegedly) made by a person who was given an honourary American citizenship by no less an august body than the Congress of the United States of America, that was printed by an American journalist in an American newspaper. That thread went south very quickly, with some very venomous comments made that I found hugely insulting.

So when it comes to BC spouting about sanctimonious, I tend to look the other way in disgust.


Fine by me... you look anywhere you want ... I could really care less.... but I stand by what I said... and do you really think this thread is the place for you to drag up old news like that? Or would you like to take it farther south? I remember the thread.. and I stand by my actions. At least I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.... which has happened on more occasions than I care to remember.. Frankly I really don't care what you think of me or my handling of posts on these boards.. I also don't care where a thread originates... tossing a thread overly criticizing any nation -it just seems that the US is everyone's favorite whipping boy these days- on these boards is like tossing fresh raw meat into a shark tank... and I wont have it.. if you don't like it of course you are more than welcome to find another forum. Till then please refrain from leveling not so cloaked insults in my direction... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ding **** merrily on high,
In heav'n the bells are ringing:
Ding ****! verily the sky
Is riv'n with angel singing.
Gloria, Hosanna in excelsis!

E'en so here below, below,
Let steeple bells be swungen,
And "Io, io, io!"
By priest and people sungen.
Gloria, Hosanna in excelsis!

Pray you, dutifully prime
Your matin chime, ye ringers;
May you beautifully rime
Your evetime song, ye singers.
Gloria, Hosanna in excelsis!

Although as a UK citizen Im Inclined to agree with a few of Bearcats points, Americans especially those who didn't vote for Bush must get insanely aggravated by all the **** they get. I've met a few really nice guys over here, who got such bull**** I'm still disgusted. Believe me Brits get far better hospitality over in the States, than they do over here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

And tbh I think Bearcats moderating has been mostly fair and spot on. If you'd launched such a personal attack on Crazyivan you'd be banned within no time, with a sarcastic comment left on your bannage notification page.

So you can all f*** off lol

leitmotiv
11-09-2007, 06:11 PM
I think the forum would be best served by moderators who are moderators and who do not believe they have to get personally involved in the discourse. Moderators should not have dogs in the hunt---this is a huge flaw of BC's style.

SeaFireLIV
11-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I think the forum would be best served by moderators who are moderators and who do not believe they have to get personally involved in the discourse. Moderators should not have dogs in the hunt---this is a huge flaw of BC's style.


Bearcat just needs to talk less about `anti-American` and just moderate, otherwise he will look like he`s taking sides. This is especially important being american himself. No one said moderating was easy.

Still, to be fair to Bearcat he has slammed down on some anti-european talk.

Bearcat99
11-09-2007, 07:00 PM
I key in on the Anti American stuff because I am an American... and that won't change.. but I don't allow any nation bashing or even region bashing... if you recall a few forum members were banned not too long ago for a week for the whole Eurotr** bit..

My moderating is not the issue in this thread if anyone has farther issues then take it up in a PM. I keyed on this thread because I can relate.. it is really sad to see so many well meaning threads turned into a mess because people just are not considerate enough to thread posters to keep from injecting their own agendas into them, and all it takes is one post.

I am sure this was not what Baylor had in mind when he made the post... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

leitmotiv
11-09-2007, 07:07 PM
Good judgment must be exercised by all parties. When moderators become part of the dialogue then their style is a public matter, not a private matter.

Korolov1986
11-09-2007, 07:16 PM
These threads always go south before I can add fuel to the fire, so I better get with the program...

I think one has to understand that the people in every country are unique in one way or another; there are differences and there are similarities with everybody. The difference in time is negligible - the only real change is how we see one another. I doubt that 20 years ago the average American had a clue how the average Russian lived, and vice versa.

Oh, and DDT, communism is not evil, but Stalin was. I don't think capitalism is great because of George Washington. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

20 years ago I'd have said communism was evil, too, but with the knowledge available now, one can safely conclude that the USSR was neither communist nor socialist. I think most of you can guess what it really was.

VW-IceFire
11-09-2007, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Baylor6:
We take this for granted! Yet it is a very different world than 35 years ago. Do you younger flyers take this for granted?
For most of my generation...yeah we take this for granted but those of us who have studied 20th century history are well aware of the sweeping changes that have occurred in the world in the last 100 years. While my generation may not be too terribly aware of what came before...they are very worried about whats coming next as there isn't allot of optimism.

I hope that your perspective is right and it is a better world. I really do!

Bearcat99
11-09-2007, 10:54 PM
What I find really worth study is the changes that have occured just in the last 50 years.. the 60s radically changed the worls.. more so than many realize..

Deedsundone
11-10-2007, 12:37 AM
Somebody mentioned global warming,and I came up with an excellent id.
How do you cool your computer?Most of us with fans.Now,let put up gigantic fans in the sky that cool our planet.Excellent id,isn´t it?
I shall invite you all to the Nobel price party.

Pirschjaeger
11-10-2007, 02:20 AM
I think this thread has gone the opposite way the original poster intended.

I have to agree with Baylor. I'll be 41 soon and as the years pass by I see more and more of what he's talking about. I think the changes are due largely to communication channels available to the average people, world wide. We fear what we don't know and this becomes a tool for our leaders. But, that tool is getting harder and harder for them to use. We, the average people, can communicate with almost anyone globally. And what have we learnt?

they are just like us.

And they have been told the same BS about us. The same BS, almost word for word, that we've been told about them.

As for peace and war, think about it. These days the numbers of casualties during war is much much smaller than in the recent past. Just Google "deaths in the 20th century" and you'll find the numbers are unimaginable.

I think the world is a better place especially regarding medical sciences. Just think of the common curable ailments that used to kill people only a few years ago.

The world is not perfect and it never will be but I can see it getting better and better. The problem is that people look at it relative to their lives which are extremely short in comparison to human civilization. We should focus on the big picture.

Today, it is rare that a woman dies when giving birth. Not so long ago, there was a 50/50 chance of either the death of the baby or the mother.

When I was a kid the news was full of images of Africans starving to death. The death by starvation rate has been decreased dramatically. Even in the developed countries, the lifespan has increased.

Maybe the reason some people think the world isn't any better is because they are more informed. The media is quick and the reports are abundant these days, thanks to technology. Maybe ignorance is bliss but I'd rather know what's actually going on.

I've heard people claim that rape is on the rise. Really? I just thought the women's freedom was on the rise, meaning they can now report this and not be made an outcast. In the past, if a woman was raped and spoke about it, she was then victimized by the community. For this reason, in the past, women said nothing.

Looking at the big picture, I can say with confidence, the world is a much better place, especially since I've had access to them, the people I was told were bad.

Fritz

smokincrater
11-10-2007, 02:28 AM
Just to put my two cents worth in again. Firstly this is a hugely political thread, so some mud is going to be thrown around.And if you can not stand the heat,get out of the kitchen. I myself write many times on these stlyle of threads and I have known Bearcat to be pretty fair(I have bagged him, myself on occasion).Now some of my posts do have some Anti-American content in them. I declare here and now that my beef is with the American Government and not the American people, who are in my experiance not dissimilar from Australians(not surprising seeing we have similar origins).
Its not surprising that these threads get out of hand because at the heart of this is a game based on conflict between nations. Some of those feelings still run very hot. But all I ask is for sensible, considered debate. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Googly
11-10-2007, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
Somebody mentioned global warming,and I came up with an excellent id.
How do you cool your computer?Most of us with fans.Now,let put up gigantic fans in the sky that cool our planet.Excellent id,isn´t it?
I shall invite you all to the Nobel price party.

Actually there is a theory that as the Earth warms more fresh water from the ice caps etc will go into the sea, disrupting thermo-haline currents and ultimately circum-polar currents, which may lead to cooling and possible glaciation. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

K_Freddie
11-10-2007, 03:05 AM
With the global village we're are heading for a 'better' and a better understanding of all peoples in the world.
There are still people who are foiled by the bull from politicians but then, these will be foiled anywhere. The internet has provided all of us with a tool to find the 'truth', and thus we have a alternative source of information than government controlled/influenced media, etc.

On the net forums, we may fight and throw 'not so nice' comments at each other but least we're 'talking' and not shooting. It's not easy living with different cultures, but the more you do the more you understand how to avoid conflicts.

I'm one of the older folk, and hard work, discipline, and respect for others is the only way to go, and how I teach my kids.

Nice stuff Baylor6
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ploughman
11-10-2007, 05:29 AM
If you'd said to a Pole in 1989 that in 15 years Poland would not only be member of the EU it'd be a member of NATO he'd've looked at you like you were crazy, and who could have blamed him?

The changes in Europe alone have been and continue to be phenomenal. The post-War settlement was locked in place by the Cold War but once the SU fell it was like a geo-political earthquake, all that pent up change happened all at once and the velocity of that change has generated an expectation of rapidity in the speed the continent's continuing political evolution.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-10-2007, 06:34 AM
Indeed, Ploughman. If you had said to me in 1989 that there would be a seemingly endless supply of lovely Polish women to romp with in my home town I'd have looked at you like you were crazy... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Blood_Splat
11-10-2007, 06:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OciFOp6DWJM

HEHE Humankind's problems solved.

OMK_Hand
11-10-2007, 06:55 AM
It is a better world.
Communication is the key.

Friendly_flyer
11-10-2007, 11:49 AM
Good post, Fritz!

SeaFireLIV
11-10-2007, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkIX:
Indeed, Ploughman. If you had said to me in 1989 that there would be a seemingly endless supply of lovely Polish women to romp with in my home town I'd have looked at you like you were crazy... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

yes, there`s certainly an endles supply of Polish women in my hometown too... You can tell `em a mile off. You can`t miss that distinctly Polish look. Talking the lingo gives it away too somewhat.

Some are quite pretty though.

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 12:27 PM
The New Pearl Harbor (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18687.htm)

I think this comes under the heading of:

If history doesn't teach; it repeats.

Back at the ranch:

The real opposition is opposing. (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18695.htm)

mortoma
11-10-2007, 12:31 PM
It may be a new world now but Putin very much wants it to go back to the cold war days and to restore the soviet empire. Putin is now in a position to do so, he's just biding his time.

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 12:47 PM
It may be a new world now but Putin very much wants it to go back to the cold war days and to restore the soviet empire. Putin is now in a position to do so, he's just biding his time.

Mortoma,

That is an interesting viewpoint considering the source. Did you get that out of the Neo-Con talking point hand book?



Putin (http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Kremlin_Responds_to_Bush8217s_Concern_06380.h tml) was joined by other Russian officials in the opposition to US plans to place elements of the missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic, claiming that it is Moscow which is the shield's target.

Anyone remember the Cuban Missile Crisis (old timers)?

What is the typical response to someone claiming to be parking atomic explosive devices on your lawn for defense?

ploughman
11-10-2007, 12:57 PM
Russia's lawn doesn't extend into central Europe any more.

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 12:59 PM
The Internet really does constitute a revolution. (http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north584.html)

Punch and Judy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_Judy) fyi

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 01:00 PM
Russia's lawn doesn't extend into central Europe any more.

The point was:

U.S.A (Limited Liability Corporate Nation State) lawn didn't extent into Cuba any more.

Is this not easy to understand?

ploughman
11-10-2007, 01:15 PM
Oh god, it's you. What was I thinking responding.

Apples and haddock.

Why would you equate the positioning of offensive nuclear tipped missiles in Cuba with short flight times that could potentially decapitate the leadership of the USA before they were even aware they were in the air with the positioning of a defensive non-nuclear anti-missile system in central Europe that's designed to counter a limited IRBM or ICBM attack in its terminal phase?

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-10-2007, 01:26 PM
Nice one Josf - this was heading towards a lovely little thread with piccies of Polish and other assorted foreign babes I've had and you've just gone and ruined it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ploughman
11-10-2007, 01:29 PM
Sorry, what was I thinking. Meet Marta, she's lovely.


http://www.star-modelgroup.com/UserFiles/Image/queens/q_marta.jpg

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 01:32 PM
Why would you equate...

See the Punch and Judy show for the answer you seek. I'm quoting the puppets.

Example:


In recent weeks, the Russian (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/08/world/europe/08prexy.html) president has made a veiled comparison between the United States and the Third Reich, complained of "diktat and imperialism," and, most recently, threatened to once more aim Russian missiles at Europe if Mr. Bush went through with his missile defense plan.

If you trust the New York Times to report the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help your god.

I don't.

The quote is not mine. I didn't talk to the dude.

I have had e-mail exchanges with Gary North. I prefere to trust his version 'with a grain of salt'.

Your version sounds, again, like it came from the Neo-Con handbook of talking points. Be my guests, for sure, and keep on parroting.

This isn't my dog and pony show.

I'm visiting.

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-10-2007, 01:34 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif


http://bestuff.com/stuff/polish-women

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 01:36 PM
ruined it.

?

http://4jg53.org/gallery/albums/userpics/Gretchen.jpg

All better?

Low_Flyer_MkIX
11-10-2007, 01:37 PM
That's much more like it. Keep it up. You sure she's Polish?

JG14_Josf
11-10-2007, 01:44 PM
You sure she's Polish?

I don't discriminate by Nationality.

If you don't like it - ignore it as best you can.

X32Wright
11-10-2007, 01:48 PM
It is a different world for sure but i am not sure if it is better. Instead of having a UNIPOLAR world what we have today is MULTIPOLAR world in poli-sci terms.

The good thing is almost everyone speak english and you do get to know HELLO and GOODBYE in so many languages in HL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif oh yes the curses too LOL

JG6_Oddball
11-10-2007, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You sure she's Polish?

I don't discriminate by Nationality.

If you don't like it - ignore it as best you can. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

are there benefits...hmmm
http://www.polishmarriage.org/polishwife.html http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

slipBall
11-10-2007, 02:34 PM
(quote)
Anyone remember the Cuban Missile Crisis (old timers)?

What is the typical response to someone claiming to be parking atomic explosive devices on your lawn for defense?

Josf nailed this one, Putin is being forced to respond to the deployment plans

ploughman
11-10-2007, 02:38 PM
Oh good grief. Josef is currently filtering his reality through a Punch and Judy show and you think he's nailed it? Well, even a stopped clock's right twice a day.

leitmotiv
11-10-2007, 03:00 PM
The U.S. Navy to the rescue!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Popeye-a-date-to-skate.jpg

leitmotiv
11-10-2007, 03:05 PM
http://www.claritaslux.com/afamily.jpg

http://www.letmegetthistraight.com/gcspotlightmagblog/images/poland_eagle_1.gif

leitmotiv
11-10-2007, 03:08 PM
http://www.chakoten.dk/images/polryt01.gif

I.JG53_Steuben
11-10-2007, 03:26 PM
oh year the uberpolish rider attacking german tanks myth! :P

Korolov1986
11-10-2007, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by I.JG53_Steuben:
oh year the uberpolish rider attacking german tanks myth! :P

Polish cavalry sabers could flip german tanks, including Tigers.

smokincrater
11-10-2007, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by JG14_Josf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">ruined it.

?

http://4jg53.org/gallery/albums/userpics/Gretchen.jpg

All better? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not corrsion on your gun barrel is it???? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

stathem
11-10-2007, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
http://www.claritaslux.com/afamily.jpg

http://www.letmegetthistraight.com/gcspotlightmagblog/images/poland_eagle_1.gif

No, Lietmotiv has nailed it.

Well, probably not in that way, exactly. Or maybe he has. I would, at any rate.

Taylortony
11-11-2007, 11:04 AM
I remember the Cold War and all that it entailed.

As a member of the RAF we did official visits to the Berlin Wall and venturing into East Berlin, often being photographed so another little file could be made by the secret police, we were actively encouraged to take along cameras to make them think we were doing the same...... How times have changed, some to the better, some not so... God, East Berlin was a stark and depressing place in those years.... the remnants of the War still much in evidence and the cold bleak shops with nothing in them starkly contrasting against the vibrant metropolis that was West Berlin that we loved so well.


Little did I think that after studying the Soviet "threat" and the technology they possesed that some short 5 years after leaving the RAF I would be sitting in an L39 Jet trainer of the warsaw pact getting to grips with translating all the dials, switches and Gauges into English, so that we may operate it..... And now as seen in my Photo thread, to be surrounded by the exotica that was once a picture in a classified book. Amazing....

But not all good things have come from the collapse of the commmunist state, rightly or wrongly the USSR was a stabilising factor in the world we knew.. America could not simply march into Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia or Sudan without the USSR flexing it's muscles and bringing the world to the brink of a Nuclear War...... In a strange way I miss that though, it was a buffer that stopped American political and Militiristic aims dead in the water and ensured 40 years of uneasy peace, but peace all the same......

Some of the bad things that came about from the fall of the wall was the wholescale arms dumping on the world market and the uncertainty of the security of the Soviet Nuclear stockpiles..

In this day and age, the Internet Revolution is possibly one of the most world wide freeing and intermixing of people and cultures of the last 1000 years.

Partly gone is the world where Political doctrine and censored news agencies controlled the flow of information to the masses, the masses have fought back and have the ability to learn from each other the world over, this brings about tolerance, understanding and friendships one only dreamt about 30 years ago.... I seriously believe it will also eventually work its way into the laws of every country, If you are able to look at images of democracy in action the world over, those in Dictatorships and the like will think, hey why cannot we have a piece of the pie and slowly but surely change will occur such as in it's infancy in Burma....... The internet allows free thought and speech when it is allowed to run.

Thank God for Porn, if it wasn't for that and the secure purchasing software it generated the world wide market in goods would never have occured.

The ability to sit at home in the UK fire up a PC and order a pack of Sausages from Germany ( Done These) clothes and DVD's from the USA, Ship This Game to friends in the USA and Canada before their release date, and order Bathroom fittings from China still amazes me today...

To be able to place an order in China and be able to track its progress to me via my Mobile phone over the internet or at work messenger someone in a different country to ask them what parts I need and order them whilst sitting out on a Bleak Airfield in the wilds of Nottinghamshire makes one wonder where we all will be in another 20 years time..... I just hope I am here to see it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pirschjaeger
11-11-2007, 11:38 AM
Admit it TT, porn was actually your first thought but strategically placed to look other wise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

What you an others have written a makes me think this: Finally, the world is almost round.

I'd also like to add that I've lived in and experienced very different cultures and societies. I have a beautiful tall Chinese wife who is right now, as we speak, carrying our child (beta release date: April)and in a few weeks I'll be drinking beer in my new home (Germany) with my best friend.

And another thing we should consider regarding a better world; this community. Unimaginable only a few decades ago.

Fritz

Taylortony
11-11-2007, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Admit it TT, porn was actually your first thought but strategically placed to look other wise. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

What you an others have written a makes me think this: Finally, the world is almost round.

I'd also like to add that I've lived in and experienced very different cultures and societies. I have a beautiful tall Chinese wife who is right now, as we speak, carrying our child (beta release date: April)and in a few weeks I'll be drinking beer in my new home (Germany) with my best friend.

And another thing we should consider regarding a better world; this community. Unimaginable only a few decades ago.

Fritz

It'll be May, it's bound to be 2 weeks late http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

carguy_
11-11-2007, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by I.JG53_Steuben:
oh year the uberpolish rider attacking german tanks myth! :P

A friendly tip for you: don`t say such things in a Polish pub/club.

For Poles, history is an open wound.It would be smart not to touch it.

On a sidenote, it`s good that the rest of EU got it`s share of Polish women.A hapier EU it is.Polish men don`t mind either cuz we have lots of em pretty critters here.

Von_Rat
11-11-2007, 06:23 PM
[quote]the USSR was a stabilising factor in the world we knew.. America could not simply march into Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia or Sudan without the USSR flexing it's muscles and bringing the world to the brink of a Nuclear War......In a strange way I miss that though, it was a buffer that stopped American political and Militiristic aims dead in the water and ensured 40 years of uneasy peace, but peace all the same [quote]


you got to be kidding me.

yeah it would be much better to have a regime that killed untold millions still in charge of the old ussr. god knows the usa is much much worse than they ever were,,jeez.

i wont even go into the nuclear war part. much better to kill off most of the world than let evil america loose.

as far as peace goes, there wasnt open warfare beteewn usa and ussr. but there were a hell of alot of other nasty wars in those 40 years. it was worse then than now.

VW-IceFire
11-11-2007, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Sorry, what was I thinking. Meet Marta, she's lovely.


http://www.star-modelgroup.com/UserFiles/Image/queens/q_marta.jpg
That makes this thread allot better! Thank you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Taylortony
11-11-2007, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Von_Rat:
[quote]the USSR was a stabilising factor in the world we knew.. America could not simply march into Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia or Sudan without the USSR flexing it's muscles and bringing the world to the brink of a Nuclear War......In a strange way I miss that though, it was a buffer that stopped American political and Militiristic aims dead in the water and ensured 40 years of uneasy peace, but peace all the same [quote]


you got to be kidding me.

yeah it would be much better to have a regime that killed untold millions still in charge of the old ussr. god knows the usa is much much worse than they ever were,,jeez.

i wont even go into the nuclear war part. much better to kill off most of the world than let evil america loose.

as far as peace goes, there wasnt open warfare beteewn usa and ussr. but there were a hell of alot of other nasty wars in those 40 years. it was worse then than now.

Not what I was trying to get across, what I am saying is say for example, Cuba, an example where one power objected to what the other was doing and an uneasy truce was drawn...and one backed down... I am not having a pop at the USA, just saying the line was drawn in the sand more accurately.... Mind you Korea and Vietnam showed what could happen when 2 powers decide to support each side.

SeaFireLIV
11-11-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:


But not all good things have come from the collapse of the commmunist state, rightly or wrongly the USSR was a stabilising factor in the world we knew.. America could not simply march into Afganistan, Iraq, Somalia or Sudan without the USSR flexing it's muscles and bringing the world to the brink of a Nuclear War...... In a strange way I miss that though, it was a buffer that stopped American political and Militiristic aims dead in the water and ensured 40 years of uneasy peace, but peace all the same......

)

My thoughts exactly. as a young boy, i went to bed petrified that i`d hear that last boom as nukes set off on a sudden WWIII. So few understand this stark fear which was a reality.

Yet, later, i realise that indeed, Russia and America actually kept eachother in check. One couldn`t go too far because of the other. Now that check is gone. In its place is a potentially worse situation with Middle east instability and some possible east-european instability and one very powerful country now telling everyone how they should be. No matter how wonderful the US may be, no powerful country ever remains uncorrupted by having all the power. It can and does get abused.

And let`s not forget, those Nukes are still there. They`ve not vanished because the cold war is over and it wasn`t all that long ago that nuclear annihilation of certain peoples was threatened... and not by Russians. Sometimes I think this was why Tony Blair jumped to help Bush while teaching restraint in such an all consuming way... he was afraid Bush might do something very, very bad.

Nice picture of the babes, btw.

smokincrater
11-12-2007, 01:03 AM
So first off Pirschjaeger I hope all goes well. Second the key to international peace is a lot of hot looking Polish chicks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Oh No!!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif I just worked out I`m a computer nerd. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

JG14_Josf
11-12-2007, 04:18 AM
I am not having a pop at the USA

The USA includes a lot of people and some have the power to start and maintain wars for profit. If anyone is duped into believing that their country' is spreading communism or democracy, then, chances are they will support the war for profit.

The same reasons remains the same what is different are the names of the sales pitches.