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View Full Version : Losing a wing? How common in real combat



signalnorth
03-22-2007, 09:24 AM
There is a lot of ww2 guncam stuff posted around the internet these days but I don't recall ever having seen a shot where a plane lost one of it's wings. This is quite common in il2. Is it unrealistic then?

Jagdgeschwader2
03-22-2007, 09:31 AM
Don't know how common it was but it did happen.

This video shows quite a few shedding their wings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O9leOmDDGk

http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jagdgeschwader2s3.jpg

berg417448
03-22-2007, 09:32 AM
Click on this and you will see one!

http://www.b17sam.com/files/damage.jpg

jarink
03-22-2007, 09:32 AM
I've seen it happen in a few guncam movies, but I don't think it was very common.

stalkervision
03-22-2007, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
Click on this and you will see one!

http://www.b17sam.com/files/damage.jpg


that photo comes from an incident where the bomber above accidentally dropped a bomb on the lower plane..

XyZspineZyX
03-22-2007, 09:57 AM
http://www.danzoernig.com/illustrations/galleryDetails39.asp

Pollack2006
03-22-2007, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
Click on this and you will see one!

http://www.b17sam.com/files/damage.jpg

GK!

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-22-2007, 10:53 AM
As cool as it looks and as sophisticated as this sim's damage model was when first released, I think the damage model is one of the main places that higher detail could really make an improvement.

Greater detailed damage model, and NO pancake trees FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tigertalon
03-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
As cool as it looks and as sophisticated as this sim's damage model was when first released, I think the damage model is one of the main places that higher detail could really make an improvement.

Greater detailed damage model, and NO pancake trees FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Exactly. IRL vast majority of destroyed planes were set on fire or lost some kind of vital liquids. In IL2 majority goes down due to structural failure.

tomtheyak
03-22-2007, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
As cool as it looks and as sophisticated as this sim's damage model was when first released, I think the damage model is one of the main places that higher detail could really make an improvement.

Greater detailed damage model, and NO pancake trees FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Exactly. IRL vast majority of destroyed planes were set on fire or lost some kind of vital liquids. In IL2 majority goes down due to structural failure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Though I am inclined to agree with you, what do you think is gonna happen when a 20mm explodes in your wing ammo tray and the 20mms nestling inside?

Similarly, an aircraft pulling G that takes a bad hit to a main wing spar, well the failure might be less to the round in and of itself hitting, but to the load that the now damaged spar is under....

But generally, i agree. From my readings it does seem like coolant/engine damage and severed control cables are more prevalant in the real thing than having a/c disintergrate around you. But then there's always the Mk108!

FritzGryphon
03-22-2007, 01:15 PM
I think I recall something about Oleg saying that they deliberately made the aircraft structure fail too easily. This was to prevent people in badly damaged planes from doing hard maneuvers. They had no way to prevent this in the IL-2 engine.

In BoB engine, I've heard the structural limits will be weakened by damage.

horseback
03-22-2007, 01:38 PM
Now if only it would stop the ai pilots from doing hard maneuvers after being hit...

cheers

horseback

BaronUnderpants
03-22-2007, 02:01 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
I think I recall something about Oleg saying that they deliberately made the aircraft structure fail too easily. This was to prevent people in badly damaged planes from doing hard maneuvers. They had no way to prevent this in the IL-2 engine.

QUOTE]


That and the fact that in the game people tend to stay behind a enemy ( more hits ) way longer than u would IRL, generally speaking.

shotdownski
03-22-2007, 02:09 PM
I don't think it was uncommon for bombers to lose a wing, however not from direct effect of fighter gunfire, but from fuel fires weakening the wing structure.

I also suspect that some of the crazy high-G and negative-G manuevers we perform (especially in damaged a/c) would cause structural failure IRL.

Zonama
03-22-2007, 02:59 PM
B-24 hit by flak:

Clicky (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/B-24_hit_by_Flak.jpg)

On a sidenote, that 51 startup in the video was cool.

MadRuski
03-22-2007, 03:23 PM
iam more amazed at the Guncams they had back then, its amazing to see actual inflight WWII fighting.

HuninMunin
03-22-2007, 04:01 PM
a) The structure is too weak - as stated by Fritz
b) In reality a pilot wouldnt waste ammo to see structural failure; most pilots would be satisfied with the enemys retreat or inability to fight.
Another aspect that comes to mind is (at least on the western front) that a common human would rather like to see the enemy bail then burning to death - almost all acounts were a pilot describes how an enemy just exploded described that they felt compassion for the poor guy on the recieving end (take Ostermann for an example).

VW-IceFire
03-22-2007, 04:29 PM
My hope is that Battle of Britain more completely models all of the little bits and pieces that can go wrong and light on fire and such instead of having to dewing planes all the time to score kills. I think then we'll see all of the light and heavy machine guns go up a notch in effectiveness.

Termitedelight
03-22-2007, 05:53 PM
There is famous gun camera footage of a FW-190 having it's wing blown off by 50 caliber gunfire from another aircraft. Might be a P-51 or P-47?