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feclmunday
11-28-2010, 08:33 PM
I thought I had spoiled the game when I heard that you whacked Lucy,

But no one seems to have picked up on the voice over during the credits.

It seems that ubisoft have broken the fourth wall again and rather than being Desmond you are only reliving his memories as well through Animus 3.0.

So Assasin's Creed 3 will be set in a post apocalyptic world in 2040? Who also thinks this will be the case?
<span class="ev_code_RED">Removed the bypassed language Title.</span>

evilkitten28
11-28-2010, 10:53 PM
It was Desmond that had gone into shock. You can hear him say "No" after the 'voices' say they're putting him back in the Animus.

Lazaran
11-28-2010, 11:53 PM
You realize it's quite possible that they took Desmond back to Assassin HQ and he started going into shock? Naturally, after he'd been told he's killed Lucy and some of the other that happened, his definitely wouldn't want to go back in the Animus, hence the "No", you heard.

He'd want to be out in the real world trying to figure out what the happened, and trying to save Lucy. While plausible, I don't really see why it would be an older Desmond reliving his own memories. If he'd experienced them first hand, why would he need to go back and relive them?
<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

feclmunday
11-29-2010, 04:57 AM
I think that's my point. They say they are putting you "back" in the Animus. At that stage you aren't in the Animus at all, but in the middle of Rome a long way away from one.

Now obviously it is an absolutley massive logical leap, but what seemed most obvious to me is that you are not Desmond, but one of his descendents reliving his memories in an Animus.

It would also get rid of the problem that there would be far too many guns in 2012 to make jumping around be a viable option.

Abeonis
11-29-2010, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by feclmunday:
I think that's my point. They say they are putting you "back" in the Animus. At that stage you aren't in the Animus at all, but in the middle of Rome a long way away from one.

Now obviously it is an absolutley massive logical leap, but what seemed most obvious to me is that you are not Desmond, but one of his descendents reliving his memories in an Animus.

It would also get rid of the problem that there would be far too many guns in 2012 to make jumping around be a viable option.

Why the hell is everyone saying they think we're actually reliving Desmond's memories. What possible reason would anybody have to do that? The catastrophe is slated to occur just seventy-two days after the events within the Apple chamber; I can assure you, that is not enough time for Desmond to father a child, have him grow up and learn to use the Animus and subsequently be forced to explore his ancestors memories.

bkb34
11-29-2010, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by feclmunday:
I think that's my point. They say they are putting you "back" in the Animus. At that stage you aren't in the Animus at all, but in the middle of Rome a long way away from one.

Now obviously it is an absolutley massive logical leap, but what seemed most obvious to me is that you are not Desmond, but one of his descendents reliving his memories in an Animus.

It would also get rid of the problem that there would be far too many guns in 2012 to make jumping around be a viable option.

Why the hell is everyone saying they think we're actually reliving Desmond's memories. What possible reason would anybody have to do that? The catastrophe is slated to occur just seventy-two days after the events within the Apple chamber; I can assure you, that is not enough time for Desmond to father a child, have him grow up and learn to use the Animus and subsequently be forced to explore his ancestors memories. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are all speculations and are plausible at that. The catastrophe IS slated to happen 72 days after the events at the end, but it could be after the so-called catastrophe. If I remember correctly, after you complete the Truth and speak with 16, he tells Desmond that he doesn't have time to stop it and save everyone. (maybe he finds a way to save himself and other Assassins, while the Templar save themselves as well) So, it very likely could be after 12/21/12 and it could be an ancestor of Desmond or even Desmond himself reliving "repressed" memories, just like those of Ezio about Cristina. Then again, maybe everyone is wrong??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

No one can really know for sure until the next game comes out, till then it's just going to be speculation and wishful thinking...

DJ_KooPee
11-29-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm another of the animus 3.0 believers...

1) I see it as slightly silly that suddenly, after stabbing lucy, two random dude's we've never even heard from before turn up and strap Desmond back into the animus, somehow believe the animus it what wigs him out and makes him all stabby stabby...

2) Go listen to subject 16's speech again:
"it is far later than you know, too late to save them"
"everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, it's already gone"

What this actually means about subject 16, I have no idea (possibly hacker in animus 3.0?), but I forsee a jaunt to the far flung future coming...

(Also, not exactly canonical, but included with the codex edition was a flyer for ubiworkshop.com, which featured a future looking assassin, so they obviously have some leaning towards that)

oneill95
11-29-2010, 02:45 PM
i havent read the rest of the posts yet but im going to say all that i know and think, on the subject 16 cluster ending he says that your son is the key or something and 'she is not who you think', and then you kill lucy because the gods control you, i think lucy was still part of abstergo and 16 warned you and the gods killed her because of that, also i dont mean gods but i can be bothered to change it. Also the voice that sed that desmond went into shock was a man's voice but not shauns. Maybe another assassin or i think someone from abstergo that lucy warned, and that would be why they say to but him in the animus, no other assassins would have one but abstergo do, thats more to suggest that lucy was a traitor. God i write alot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

oneill95
11-29-2010, 02:55 PM
some people think that the reason why you killed lucy was because your son causes the worlds destruction and lucy was your love interest and some think that you are reliving desmonds memories through your son but that would mean that you are in an animus remembering memories from an animus, is that possible?

DJ_KooPee
11-29-2010, 05:13 PM
but that would mean that you are in an animus remembering memories from an animus, is that possible?
Is using a machine to replay your ancestors memories possible in the first place???

It's sci-fi so they can make up any rules they want, could be a memory within a memory within a memory within a memory for all we know...

Tired-Kid363
11-30-2010, 01:45 AM
I don't believe this theory but, it could be that Desmond finds Eve's descendant, they have a child, and then the child is viewing Desmond's memories through an animus in the apocalyptic future. The gun problem wouldn't be an issue then because guns would be scarce and only a few people would have them. But why would the descendant be looking through Desmond's memories?

YourSinsIntoMe
11-30-2010, 04:26 AM
I don't think it's the case either that a decendant of desmond is reliving his memories of desmond reliving ezio's. (wow thats confusing)
cause then why do that? why not just go straight to ezio's if they are related through desmond anyway.

feclmunday
11-30-2010, 06:02 AM
The reasons to relive Desmond's memories, from the far future, would be to find out what happened in the run up to the Catastrophe and just after it. Presumably how Desmond saves the Assain's, or causes it by unleashing the Old Gods.

It's also the conversation between the two new guys after the S**t he's gone into shock line.

"Put him BACK in the Animus" - You weren't in an animus at the time.

"But it's the Animus that has caused it" It was the apple that made Desmond stab Lucy, could it be that reliving this traumatic memory in an Animus has put someone else into shock?

Pure speculation but stil quite fun.

rocketxsurgeon
11-30-2010, 09:39 AM
You can't really take anything for real here. Desmond's state of mind is depleting. The bleeding effect is happening.

He's following the same path 16 did. Someone's putting him back into the animus, that can't be good for him.

FANIS1993
11-30-2010, 11:14 AM
i read it in other posts as well that all this time we play as desmond son or someone who desmond is an ancestor to him and he relieves desmond life and ezio-altair as well. i hope its not like that cause if its like millions years later from desmond life then whats gonna be?too far in the future with space and crap?? i hope we will be playing as desmond like now, i read in other posts that the voices we heard was subject 16 and the voice who says no is desmond and they rescued him after whats happen with lucy and the apple. i hope its like that and not with the memory into a memory thing. and i hope we won't play as a female assassins as others saying

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

Astralcloak
11-30-2010, 01:36 PM
3/4 quick points:

- firstly, dose anyone remember what it was that the god's were saying as desmond tried to fight the apples influence before stabbing lucy?

- secondly, i genuinly hope that it's not desmond's ancestor reviewing him, that would bring things to a weird, confusing point and be generally hard to implement. it could very well be after demond stabbs lucy he gose out cold and in order to figure out wtf happend, shaun and rebbecca call in other assassins and they put unconsious desmond in the animus to try and figure it out.

- thridly, if you remember correctly, at NO POINT dose it EVER say the 'Cataclysm' (not appocalyps - totally different meanings) would occour in 72 days, rather the abstergo satillite launch would, and the olg gods refer to the 72-day-away even as the great 'enlightening', not the previously predicted soloar flare. *phew*.

- lastly, i believe it is pretty safe, and unanimusly agreeable, to say that Ubisoft have left of in a brilliant and versatile (if confusing) point to lead on to the next game.

*gasp* *gasp*, more then i meant to say... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Astralcloak
11-30-2010, 01:37 PM
woo-hoo, so long it made a 2nd page!

Abeonis
11-30-2010, 03:08 PM
Woo-hoo, double posting is against the rules.

Black_Widow9
11-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Astralcloak:
woo-hoo, so long it made a 2nd page!
Please use the Edit button to change your post instead of double posting.

NobleBlade305
11-30-2010, 05:04 PM
Subject 16 said she is not who he thinks she is and he was talking about that god robot thing who kept on talking to him at the end, he said find eve in eden her d.n.a,(on ubisoft workshop there is a picture of an egypt assassin, go on freakin youtube to see for yourself or ign) People belive the garden of eden is in africa so desmond will be getting into the memories of an egypt assassin And will find the truth of these robot looking things, and the assassins and templars fighting each other,( thats why they call subject 16 the truth, and for him being so crazy hes pretty smart for putting himself in the animus)( and 16 doesnt say he dead and even says hes needs to recharge or whatever so he probably could of escaped and has a machine of himself after all he is an assassin!

NobleBlade305
11-30-2010, 05:31 PM
the big giant mountain is mount Kilimanjaro which is africa to, so the next game will definitely (maybe< I was just thinking Abeonis)be in africa check wikipedia for info and picturehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.giffirst post, I forgot that that the story is that eve tempted adam ,so it could be that is what the assassins is made up of and the templars were the ones punishing the people on assassins creed 2 16 video so eve could of tricked adam into stealing the apple so eve is the start of the assassins and adam was a person who was tempted to take the apple because eve wanted the power for herself(try to think of a future version of the adam and eve story) not every leader or higher person is a templar just the currupt oes are like that pope on the romualus mission who was going to preach out evil,thepriest talking in the streets of ac arnt evil but they do take bribes which is kind of bad.......my brain hurts now

Abeonis
11-30-2010, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by NobleBlade305:
the big giant mountain is mount Kilimanjaro which is africa to, so the next game will definitely be in africa check wikipedia for info and picture

Erm, no, it will not definately be in Africa.

Jack-Reacher
11-30-2010, 09:04 PM
You are all looking too much into it. The game likes to keep things kinda realistic like we are ALWAYS playing as Desmond. At the end of Ac2, you can still play as Ezio because the animus is in the truck.

In this game they had to make an excuse for you to replay it as ezio once you finish the game, so they put you back in the animus

kirondineer01
11-30-2010, 09:13 PM
To me the voice of the guy that says to put him back in the animus sounds a lot like the Abstergo dude that was running things in the first Assassin's Creed. Makes me think that maybe the "escape" from Abstergo was manufactured to get Desmond to actively help find the apple instead of fighting against them. Or maybe Abstergo found them right after they got the apple.

NobleBlade305
11-30-2010, 09:18 PM
16 told desmond to find eves dna(end of the truth) and after he killed lucy he got put back into the animus by the other assassins so hes probably going to inform them on what happend and then the next game which is ac3 will be another ancestor who they will use to find eves dna( go to youtube and put acb subject 16 the truth)

Lazaran
11-30-2010, 11:23 PM
Also, if it really is someone reliving Desmond's memories, then why have they not exited the animus yet? Unless they've stayed in throughout AC1, AC2, and ACB. That would be an extremely long amount of time and would likely have extreme, probably deadly, side effects.

And, if someone is playing Desmond's memories, why can we not replay Desmond's memories? The whole theory that it's really someone else reliving Desmond's memories is just absurd to me.

DJ_KooPee
12-01-2010, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Lazaran:
Also, if it really is someone reliving Desmond's memories, then why have they not exited the animus yet? Unless they've stayed in throughout AC1, AC2, and ACB. That would be an extremely long amount of time and would likely have extreme, probably deadly, side effects.
Future animus could be a lot more advanced than current models, so less side effects???


And, if someone is playing Desmond's memories, why can we not replay Desmond's memories? The whole theory that it's really someone else reliving Desmond's memories is just absurd to me.
Couldn't replay memories in AC1+2 either, was a new function of animus 2.01 (yeah, this kinda contradicts my above idea, but I'm just brain storming)...

Also if we could replay Desmond's memories, it would just confirm all this random speculation, ruining the possible suprise for the next game...

Remember, no-one is saying this is fact, it's just theories...

mx.brmn
12-04-2010, 07:47 PM
I wanna know, who is "the sixth"? Juno towards the end says "Go, Awaken the sixth." Or something like that. What is she talking about?

Also, Lazaran I don't really like the idea of animus memories in animus memories either, but about the time issue, maybe it's like in the movie inception where time is compounded. So in 2 hours of time in the "real world" 6 hours could go by in level one memories, and say 18 hours in the second level of the animus. Maybe. Just speculation.

Lazaran
12-05-2010, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by DJ_KooPee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lazaran:
Also, if it really is someone reliving Desmond's memories, then why have they not exited the animus yet? Unless they've stayed in throughout AC1, AC2, and ACB. That would be an extremely long amount of time and would likely have extreme, probably deadly, side effects.
Future animus could be a lot more advanced than current models, so less side effects???


And, if someone is playing Desmond's memories, why can we not replay Desmond's memories? The whole theory that it's really someone else reliving Desmond's memories is just absurd to me.
Couldn't replay memories in AC1+2 either, was a new function of animus 2.01 (yeah, this kinda contradicts my above idea, but I'm just brain storming)...

Also if we could replay Desmond's memories, it would just confirm all this random speculation, ruining the possible suprise for the next game...

Remember, no-one is saying this is fact, it's just theories... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In ACB, it took weeks for Desmond to relive Ezio's memories. You don't think that would have some side effects, if he was in there the ENTIRE time? Even without the bleeding effect etc., that's still an absurd amount of time to be in the animus continually.

So, there's NO WAY it could be someone reliving Desmond's memories. Given the added time of AC1, AC2, and ACB, no one could be in an animus that long. The human body needs rest, food, water, or it will die. It's like if you played a video game for an entire month. Sure, a video game won't make you go crazy and start writing in blood on walls, but doing nothing but playing a video game for an entire month will kill your body.

And, since as other posters have said, Ubisoft tries to make things make as much sense as possible. Meaning that if we were playing someone who was reliving Desmond's memories, we would have seen him/her exit the animus already.

Oh and another thing, if we were playing someone who was reliving Desmond's memories, then why do we not seeing the animus glitching when playing as Desmond? Why also, does the animus not load new areas in Desmond's world as it does in Altair's/Ezio's?

yellowbeans
12-05-2010, 03:46 AM
Ok I'm sorry, I didn't read all of the posts.

I personally think that Desmond has always been in the animus and his escape with Lucy was only to make his mind more receptive to using the Animus.

I also believe that the great event that was going to ruin humanity or whatever already happened.

Don't ask me to prove any of this, just a hunch.

DJ_KooPee
12-06-2010, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Lazaran:
In ACB, it took weeks for Desmond to relive Ezio's memories. You don't think that would have some side effects, if he was in there the ENTIRE time? Even without the bleeding effect etc., that's still an absurd amount of time to be in the animus continually.

So, there's NO WAY it could be someone reliving Desmond's memories. Given the added time of AC1, AC2, and ACB, no one could be in an animus that long. The human body needs rest, food, water, or it will die. It's like if you played a video game for an entire month. Sure, a video game won't make you go crazy and start writing in blood on walls, but doing nothing but playing a video game for an entire month will kill your body.
Induced coma and feeding tubes, maybe???

Then the whole Desmond stabbing Lucy suddenly woke him up???

And, since as other posters have said, Ubisoft tries to make things make as much sense as possible. Meaning that if we were playing someone who was reliving Desmond's memories, we would have seen him/her exit the animus already.
Yes, because if they were planning a massive twist ending in the future, the best way to implement that would be to spoil it beforehand, right???

Oh and another thing, if we were playing someone who was reliving Desmond's memories, then why do we not seeing the animus glitching when playing as Desmond? Why also, does the animus not load new areas in Desmond's world as it does in Altair's/Ezio's?
Again, could be much more advanced technology, or could be Ubi not spoiling the story before they want to...

Actually enjoying this debate, but none of us know what direction they're going to go in (hell, we could all be way off, could be space monkeys playing a mystic game of chequers for all we know)...

alphaz99
12-07-2010, 07:28 AM
"Put him BACK in the Animus" - You weren't in an animus at the time.

"But it's the Animus that has caused it" It was the apple that made Desmond stab Lucy


i agree with that. What they say has no relation with what happen at the end of acb, desmond killing lucy because of juno and the apple.

Also the truth in acb, what subject16 said

"it is far later than you know, too late to save them"
"everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, it's already gone"


All of that point to someone in an animus relived the life of desmond.

Regarding the 72 days delay, it’s not the cataclysm, but the launch of the templar satellite that will mindcontrol the whole humanity.
Regarding the cataclysm, if i'm not mistaken, present time for desmond is january 2012, cataclysm should be for 21/12/2012, so there is an 11 months delay.
Minerva said that a few of her kind and of mankind survived the previous cataclysm. So it’s not a problem to imagine some people living in the future and using animus to explore desmond memory.

I could see one of two possibility
- son of desmond using an animus, subject16 talk about the son. I wonder what is the point for his son to do that. If the cataclysm has been avoided, there is no point. If the cataclysm had happend, it is already too late(as subject16 seem to say). I could see a new plot, where animus could change the past, his son could try to change history regarding the cataclysm.

- A descendant of desmonds far in the future, like 10000 years in the future. At this time, a new cataclysm is close to happen. This descendant could try to learn the mistake that desmond did, resulting in the cataclysm not being avoided in 2012, by learning the mistake of desmonds, this descendant could avoid his own cataclysm. I like this one.



But overall, I didn’t like at all the end of acb. It is in complete contradiction with ac2. In ac2, old gods represented by Minerva seemed to be good(maybe a little pretentious against ezio, but not against desmond), and also she said ”we are gone now from this world”, implying that there is no old gods alive, and that she is just an interactive message.

And in acb, just the opposite. Juno is a *****, consider humanity like weaklings, and don’t seem to care to help humanity to survive the cataclysm, and even more incredible, she speak as if she was alive, like if her mind was real inside a sort of computer, and I’m pretty sure she just want to recreate the bloodline of the old gods and live again.

Yeah big disappointment on the story for me, I just hope that ac3 will recenter everything. I’m pretty sure that the initial story writed since ac1, has been changed, to allow ubisoft to create more game with the licence.

(sorry for the bad grammar, it’s not my first language obviously).

Yoshack Fyre84
12-07-2010, 09:41 AM
This is a far off stretch, but maybe they're somehow talking about Ezio's son. Bear with me.

It seemed everything was going fine for the Assassin's with Ezio in command, so we know his kid or a descendant somewhere isn't a very top notch Assassin. With the bleeding effect Desmond practically is Ezio on a mental level, so Desmond's son/Ezio's son could really just be Ezio's son.

I also believe that the animus only plays memories of your ancestors to the point they conceived the next descendant. The best example is when you see Altair making a baby, then he runs off and the camera stays with the woman and her freshly conceived child rather than going with Altair. As we're still playing Ezio, he obviously has not yet conceived his descendent as of 1507, but we know his bloodline does go on

Does one of Ezio's children or grandchildren betray the Assassin's and join the Templars sometime after 1507 that causes them to remain powerful for the next 500 years?

pandacozumel
12-07-2010, 05:57 PM
"it is far later than you know, too late to save them"
"everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear, it's already gone"

Wow I have been readind all the posts and all sounds interesting some more possible than other, following some theories could be that Desmond is still in abstergo plug in the animus, and stabing Lucy was necesary to awake him up, maybe the events of cataclysm already happen and it doesn´t matter if are templar or assasins all are surviver and they want to found the pieces of fruits of eden to rebuilt our civilization or fight a common enemy (old gods) and all that happen in the chamber in rome is just a representation maybe Desmond got the power of the fruit of Eden not the artifact it self (awaking the sixth sense) and maybe the son of Desmond and the "Girl" (new adam and eva) is going to be new messiah o chosen one to free humanity, so next game is not about finding temples is about findind this girl. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just crazy ideas, we will have to wait until AC3 i also agree with other user that maybe Ubisoft its changing the original story since ac1 just to realese more games, think about it at the end is just about "money" even abstergo new it damn capitalism, and if we having AC3 until 2012 ¿what about next year? (2011) are we having a AC brake, any ideas for a good DLC and not just randoms levels, maybe UBISOFT will drop Ezio and bring out a new game with a girl as main character exploring her ancestors, Assassins Creed: Eve, what you think?

d-ShLuM
12-07-2010, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by mx.brmn:
I wanna know, who is "the sixth"? Juno towards the end says "Go, Awaken the sixth." Or something like that. What is she talking about?

Also, Lazaran I don't really like the idea of animus memories in animus memories either, but about the time issue, maybe it's like in the movie inception where time is compounded. So in 2 hours of time in the "real world" 6 hours could go by in level one memories, and say 18 hours in the second level of the animus. Maybe. Just speculation.

"The sixth" is not a person, Juno is referring to Desmond unlocking "full knowledge/understanding", as Juno and Minerva already have.


Has anybody thought about how maybe the dialogue during the credits is a conversation that is had in a future game? It is highly doubtful that Desmond is currently being revisited by someone in an Animus in the future. Also, the voice that says "No" in that dialogue is undeniably the voice of Desmond.
He has been the central character throughout all of the AC games, do you really think that Ubisoft would abandon that trend now?

feclmunday
12-08-2010, 05:18 AM
Well this debate has grown nicely.

I think the thing with the old god's turning out to be evil isn't too dificult to belive, when you consider that they had hunmanity enslaved before, and left the pieces of Eden as gifts for the Templars...

TheRighteousOne
12-08-2010, 08:44 AM
I took a different approach to those voices at the end. The voice says he's the expert. Well who could possibly be the expert? It didn't sound like Vidic so he's out. Rebecka is female so she's out. Subject 16 is dead. Or rather he's alive but only in the animus, so he's out. The assassin's only have a little knowledge of the animus and its what Lucy sent Rebecca so no one on that side could possibly be an expert besides them. Who does that leave? Another Templar/Abstergo Agent? Possibly. However, I borrowed the first comic from my friend and after reading that, I have a different theory. The guy from that was suffering the bleeding effect, WITHOUT having ever been in an animus. He was definitely experiencing some crazy side effects. The comic also shows some things which seem to be the beginning of the animus project. Pared with the guy with the bleeding effect, (I forget his name) I think this guy might be subject 1. Now someone who managed to flit from present to pass without help, could quite potentially have quite a few incites on a machine that replicates this experience. Could he quite possibly be the expert? Though if he is subject 1 that would mean that somewhere down the line he was a captive of Abstergo and somehow managed to escape them, but that would explain how the assassin's even knew of the project and why they put a mole in.

Second as to the whole stabbing Lucy thing. Keep in mind that Desmond is the son of Adam and there is a Daughter of Eve out there. Now going back a ways, both Templars and Assassin's knew of the pieces of Eden. How did these two groups and only these two groups know of them? Not to mention they are direct enemies of one another. They both most have had a direct line of knowledge from the past, through whatever groups preceded them. What if they both were once one organization. Somewhere along the line they must have had a schism and gone separate ways and become enemies. So if they were once one, its feasible that some descendants of Adam and Eve ended up in either camp. Making it quite possible that the daughter of eve that Desmond needs to find is in fact a templar. Now an assassin and a templar working hand in hand to save the world? Who on either side would ever agree to such a union. Desmond would have to fully embrace the Assassin montra: Nothing is true; EVERYTHING (even working with templars) is permitted. And to do so, the one person holding him back would have to be eliminated. It would also explain why 16 said you couldn't save everyone. Lucy had to be sacrificed.

dnadns
12-08-2010, 09:55 AM
I've been following this discussion and now decided to put more fuel into the fire.

Having finished the AC1 replay yesterday, there are some things I noticed that might add to the discussion.
First of all, this probably is just a minor thing, but during AC1, you are watching Desmond through the
view of the security cameras. I think that this was just done to emphasize the scene from an artistic
perspective, but it also somehow speaks against the "relive Desmond's life through the animus" theory.
Well, at least if the watcher is not a direct descendant of a CCTV chip.
Then again, whenever you quit the game (to the main menu), it shows the same animation while Desmond exits
the Animus.
This might also be an artistic choice of the developers, but usually it comes down to these subtle things
that lead up to a plot twist.

Concerning working with the Brotherhood (sorry, I don't like the term "templar" as the refer to themselves not as that), it is actually quite hard to identify the roots of both organizations. In AC1 it is said that 10 people found the POE, composed of one Assassin and 9 men who formed a secret brotherhood. Somehow I was under the impression that both organizations were somehow linked back to Adam and Eve, but it is entirely possible that both organizations were actually one that split apart due to different philosophies.
The more interesting part here is that the Brotherhood always refers to the father of understanding. It seems reasonable to assume the involvement of a third THCB (maybe Jupiter or Baphomet). In light of the speak at the end of AC:B the whole series hints way more at concepts of time and memory. The writing on the wall by 16 hinted at it, saying that humans are mere books, containing thousands of pages.
Juno also refers to memory storage in objects and the problem that time will erode everything, even the THCB themselves. Considering that some POEs enable time travel (see the Philadelphia Project), the whole series seems to be about unlocking and accessing memory. Even Eagle Vision is referred to as the "knowledge" by Vidic, which strongly hints at it being the missing 6th sense.
With Minerva addressing Desmond by name in the Animus, it is pretty fair to assume some sort of premonition ability. Interesting enough, this ability might only affect the direct descendants of Adam and Eve, which might even explain why Lucy is beyond their sight.
We would naturally assume that older memory is stored for future reference, but it could also be possible that this memory is always available at all times using the POEs as a catalyst to access the data.
Truth be told, it is a little bit far fetched, but then again, we see Moebius signs (again, 16's scribbles) which could also hint at a big cyclic theme within the AC universe. That way, information about the future might be available because it did happen already in a previous cycle. This might also be another way to interpret the AC:B Truth file.

Concerning Lucy, I am pretty sure that it will be the reason for us to search for the Shroud in AC3 alongside the quest for Eve's DNA. While the Shroud is supposed to have side effects, we also noticed that Adam's bloodline is resistant to some of the negative POE aspects (seeing through the illusions of the Apple of Eden).
Then again, nothing is true and it might be that the power of all the artifacts is truly just an illusion. A powerful illusion, but nothing that can restore life, but rather strengthen the individuals will to survive (or not to, if they fall under the side effects).

It would be really nice to see something like a timeline of all events across all canon media to put these things into further context. Sadly, it happens quite often that lines got misquoted and slightly twisted in their meaning.

But going back to the topic, it is also possible that Desmond was seeing a possible future event. If we consider Eagle Vision to be the natural equivalent of the Animus, he might have seen something that is about to happen when touching the apple.

bvhgfgmjh
12-08-2010, 03:56 PM
Maybe it is Desmonds descendant reliving his memories but the only reason i can think of is to find the apple of eden they left in Rome or kept since he templars has a map of the rest.

TheRighteousOne
12-08-2010, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by dnadns:
With Minerva addressing Desmond by name in the Animus, it is pretty fair to assume some sort of premonition ability. Interesting enough, this ability might only affect the direct descendants of Adam and Eve, which might even explain why Lucy is beyond their sight.
We would naturally assume that older memory is stored for future reference, but it could also be possible that this memory is always available at all times using the POEs as a catalyst to access the data.

........

Concerning Lucy, I am pretty sure that it will be the reason for us to search for the Shroud in AC3 alongside the quest for Eve's DNA. While the Shroud is supposed to have side effects, we also noticed that Adam's bloodline is resistant to some of the negative POE aspects (seeing through the illusions of the Apple of Eden).
Then again, nothing is true and it might be that the power of all the artifacts is truly just an illusion. A powerful illusion, but nothing that can restore life, but rather strengthen the individuals will to survive (or not to, if they fall under the side effects).

It would be really nice to see something like a timeline of all events across all canon media to put these things into further context. Sadly, it happens quite often that lines got misquoted and slightly twisted in their meaning
Ok first I don't get where you're getting that Lucy is beyond their sight since they specificly chose to kill Lucy in order to get the most favorable future outcome. And if they force Desmond to kill Lucy, wouldn't it then be counter-productive to bring her back with the shroud? You could argue that it changes how events play out and Lucy coming back to life is somehow productive or even irrelevant. But a lot of the things said by Juno and subject 16 don't seem to support this.

dnadns
12-09-2010, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by TheRighteousOne:
Ok first I don't get where you're getting that Lucy is beyond their sight since they specificly chose to kill Lucy in order to get the most favorable future outcome.

To be honest, it is said "she lies not within our sight", which could refer to anybody (Lucy, Eve or whoever).
Following the theory that TWCB can only see future events of humans that carry parts of their DNA (hence Desmond),
my theory was that Lucy is neither good, nor bad from their perspective, but simply an unknown factor as they are not able
to see her involvement in later things.


Originally posted by TheRighteousOne:
And if they force Desmond to kill Lucy, wouldn't it then be counter-productive to bring her back with the shroud? You could argue that it changes how events play out and Lucy coming back to life is somehow productive or even irrelevant. But a lot of the things said by Juno and subject 16 don't seem to support this.

I was actually more getting at the intention of the developers beyond what happens in the game. Lucy is built up through several games now
and just killing her off for shock value seems somehow meaningless. If the central theme is about free will, then Desmond will
most likely try to save her despite what TWCB want. It is not hinted anywhere, but I was just considering the general themes in the game
and how that might lead up to further events and character motiviation.

TheRighteousOne
12-09-2010, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by dnadns:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheRighteousOne:
Ok first I don't get where you're getting that Lucy is beyond their sight since they specificly chose to kill Lucy in order to get the most favorable future outcome.

To be honest, it is said "she lies not within our sight", which could refer to anybody (Lucy, Eve or whoever).
Following the theory that TWCB can only see future events of humans that carry parts of their DNA (hence Desmond),
my theory was that Lucy is neither good, nor bad from their perspective, but simply an unknown factor as they are not able
to see her involvement in later things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
By that theory lets kill off Rebecka and Shaun as well. I took "she lies not within our sight" to mean "Eve is not here in front of us at this moment with you Desmond." Granted everything they said was sorta vague. But to say she's not in our future view of things would lead to indifference. If she's not part of their view of their future. It means her living or dying does not influence their future. So why specifically go through the trouble of killing her?


Originally posted by dnadns:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheRighteousOne:
And if they force Desmond to kill Lucy, wouldn't it then be counter-productive to bring her back with the shroud? You could argue that it changes how events play out and Lucy coming back to life is somehow productive or even irrelevant. But a lot of the things said by Juno and subject 16 don't seem to support this.

I was actually more getting at the intention of the developers beyond what happens in the game. Lucy is built up through several games now
and just killing her off for shock value seems somehow meaningless. If the central theme is about free will, then Desmond will
most likely try to save her despite what TWCB want. It is not hinted anywhere, but I was just considering the general themes in the game
and how that might lead up to further events and character motiviation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, complete free will when he killed Lucy. And the whole plot was influenced from the beginning. Do you think they knew Ezio would find Minerva's message in the Vatican? Or do you think they influenced it? Just by leaving that message for Desmond, they are influencing the future. By forcing Desmond to kill Lucy, they are influencing the future. I'm sure everyone would agree with you that Desmond has complete free will.

xcamthemandudex
12-09-2010, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by kirondineer01:
To me the voice of the guy that says to put him back in the animus sounds a lot like the Abstergo dude that was running things in the first Assassin's Creed. Makes me think that maybe the "escape" from Abstergo was manufactured to get Desmond to actively help find the apple instead of fighting against them. Or maybe Abstergo found them right after they got the apple.

"The only reason why you are still conscious is because it is easier this way." --I believe those were his words in the first game. Not saying you are wrong or right, just pointing that out there.


To prevent double posting:

I just read Ezio Auditore's bio in the game (DATABASE/PEOPLE/CONTACTS/EZIO AUDITORE), the very last paragraph is, "This all sounds very far-fetched when I write it out like that, doesn't it? Fortunately, we have the Animus records to prove it, so we didn't dream it or anything. Unless we're all in a dream right now..."

Now, I know Shaun is writing all of this information down on the computer; however, Ubisoft does make it sound very "skeptical" in that paragraph. Who knows... maybe it is all a dream, or maybe it is just suspense? The point is, they are purposely leaving it off to a cliff-hanger and toying with us. Can't wait for the next game!

E.X.O.D.U.S
12-10-2010, 08:37 AM
I've noticed the 'Unless we're all in a dream right now...' as well! The very end of the game will be something like that in my opinion. Not like: 'Desmond wakes up and it's all a dream! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif' but something really complex that eventually like, 'ends' the dream and releases us into a real World or something. Idk, just brainstorming.

Nutella0Mutt
12-13-2010, 04:23 PM
Oooo so many theories! I don'teven know which to believe.

I do like the idea of Desmond as Son of Adam needing to find the Daughter of Eve, who might be a Templar, to work together.

A completely random idea I just came up with was the possibility of putting Lucy in the Anibus. Would that even do anything, probably not. But what if by doing that she suddenly "lied within their sight"? I dunno WTF I'm talking about.

Personally I don't like Lucy so I hope she was an impostor.

Another thought, and the 16th and the Ones Who Came Before on the same side? After the 16th's speech, I started thinking that maybe he was warning us about the Gods, trying to prepare us for what was to come. He was on our side against Abstergo, but how does he fit in the the Ones Who Came Before? It's strange getting cryptic information from TWO sources. Which to trust? The "human" or the "Gods"?

SUCH A MIND FUDGE! Lol.

assassins-ftw
12-14-2010, 12:33 AM
i heard the voices i could probably figure it out if i knew who the voices were are they the templars the other assassin bases that shaun kept updating about on the pc who knows all i know is that i want to know if lucy lives (probably) and the apple (probably with the others(rebecca&shaun))and if it is the other assassins they are probably putting desmond back into the animus to learn about how to use the apple

Oil.Change11
12-14-2010, 03:26 AM
Hey guys I just read this whole thread and concerning Lucy's death I think we're forgetting the fact that the last time we saw somone getting stab while someone was holding the apple it was an illusion. Remember Altiar and Al Mualim. Maybe this was just an illusion. If I remember correctly Al Mualim stated that the apple powers was the ability to creat illusions. Now about The ones who came before, I think that it is three groups we should be thinking of. Minerva said that her race and Humans went to war, right. But what's key is she said to seek those who learned to turn away. I think that they found the wrong one. Juno is probably one the ancients who fought the humans not the peaceful ones. It's a good idea by Ubi if I'm somewhat correct because now we probably seen everyones perspective of the ideal world. I'm not saying we know the whole story of how and why they want it but think about it, first we saw Abstergo or the Templars goals, then the assassins, then Minerva's and her companions if she has any, now we probably just saw the evil ancients that wanted to keep us enslaved, and now what's left to see is the ones who turned from war perspective and thoughts about the solar flare. I may be completely wrong, just a thought. I just think that Minerva and Juno have two different ideas about what Desmond should do.

Nutella0Mutt
12-14-2010, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by Oil.Change11:
Hey guys I just read this whole thread and concerning Lucy's death I think we're forgetting the fact that the last time we saw somone getting stab while someone was holding the apple it was an illusion. Remember Altiar and Al Mualim. Maybe this was just an illusion. If I remember correctly Al Mualim stated that the apple powers was the ability to creat illusions.

That is a good point, and Altair did black out after, but there wasn't any blood. Well that doesn't really matter. We can assume for Al Mualim, he's just a corrupt man, and his synch with the apple wouldn't be as strong, so many he isn't powerful enough to create realistic illusions. But if it Desmond forced by the Ones Who Came Before, then they can probably create 100% realistic illusions.

Also, Al Mualim did say that Altair was "reborn" after he was "revived." Maybe Lucy will be reborn with new skills or something. Maybe she'll be more useful. Or maybe she'll change personalities. That would be cool.