PDA

View Full Version : 50 Cal fix



IFly_1968
07-21-2007, 07:24 AM
Oleg,
Great sim. By far the best out. I here this is the place to make requests so sir if you could please change the tracers on the 50 cal to be bigger and brighter. They are realy hard to see. Is this something that can be changed by the user?

IFly_1968
07-21-2007, 07:24 AM
Oleg,
Great sim. By far the best out. I here this is the place to make requests so sir if you could please change the tracers on the 50 cal to be bigger and brighter. They are realy hard to see. Is this something that can be changed by the user?

x6BL_Brando
07-21-2007, 08:54 AM
Items like tracer colours are hard-coded in the game and can only be changed by the developer. I don't know whether your request is high enough up the list (or whether it would be a legitimate change, authentically, to warrant being in any list) to be changed in what is probably the final version/ patch.

Sorry to be not much help. I can only suggest getting in closer, and then closer still, as some ace pilot stated. Tracer becomes almost irrelevant when you're close enough to see the pieces breaking off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

B

VW-IceFire
07-21-2007, 10:57 AM
This one will be several pages long no doubt.

All red tracers are hard to see...something about how the engine does its alpha blending. Its not going to be fixed...we tried to ask for that years ago.

What you can do is use the zoom/narrow field of view to get a better look at your tracers. I think the button is DEL by default but I can't remember. Have a look in the control list for narrow and wide angle focus. You'll be able to see the tracers better.

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-21-2007, 10:58 AM
This issue has been brought up many many times in the past and has never been changed in any of the patches. Apparently Oleg thinks they are fine as is. Always make sure your inside 300 meters before you fire, 200 meters is even better. I think you will find you see the tracers just fine then. Firing above those ranges is hit and miss and more or less a waste of ammo. Just be sure to adjust your convergence accordingly.

S!

3.JG51_BigBear
07-21-2007, 12:47 PM
I know that we will never see them fixed in game but I figured as long as people were talking about them:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JhreZIk07pI&mode=related&search=

Korolov1986
07-21-2007, 01:56 PM
Don't use the tracers to guide your guns. Watch for hits on the target.

M_Gunz
07-21-2007, 02:11 PM
I have video of P-47 strafing a train, guncamera footage, and even on film more sensitive to red
than human eyes you cannot see the tracers in flight. But when they hit the tracers flashed as
big bright spots (B&W film, shows as white) on the target. At the same time there is voice from
veteran in the studio telling how the tracers flashing on the target showed when they were hitting
the target and nothing about seeing where the tracers were going during trajectory. Call me
gullible but I'd say that the tracers were not always visible along their paths from behind.

Yes I've seen film that shows tracer paths but that is not always, it depends on lighting
conditions and how the camera exposure and aperture are set and speed of the film. Most of
those are more sensitive than human eyes so don't be taken in by such film.

3.JG51_BigBear
07-21-2007, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I have video of P-47 strafing a train, guncamera footage, and even on film more sensitive to red
than human eyes you cannot see the tracers in flight. But when they hit the tracers flashed as
big bright spots (B&W film, shows as white) on the target. At the same time there is voice from
veteran in the studio telling how the tracers flashing on the target showed when they were hitting
the target and nothing about seeing where the tracers were going during trajectory. Call me
gullible but I'd say that the tracers were not always visible along their paths from behind.

Yes I've seen film that shows tracer paths but that is not always, it depends on lighting
conditions and how the camera exposure and aperture are set and speed of the film. Most of
those are more sensitive than human eyes so don't be taken in by such film. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tracer rounds were never the best indicator of where the bullet stream was going because their weight would change as the magnesium (or other chemical) was burned off during the bullet's flight to the target. This wasn't a problem at short range but when shooting over longer ranges in air to air combat the trajectory of the tracer round and the standard bullets could be very different. This was the reason that many pilots in all airforces opted to have their tracers removed and preferred to rely on strikes on target as a means of aiming as oppossed to tracer rounds which had the unintended effect of giving the attacker position away. This method appears to have worked well for the Germans who relied on cannon armament but for the Americans it was often difficult to tell when rounds were hitting a target until the introduction of API rounds. The API rounds usually "flashed" when they hit a target and that let the Allied pilot know when his rounds were making contact. After that tracer rounds were usually used as a means of indicating the end of a pilots' ammo supply.

The use of tracers of course varied from unit to unit. In the 9th Airforce, for example, tracer rounds were still heavily used because of the intimidation effect they were thought to have on flack gunners/ground personnel and their greater effectiveness at low altitude. The 354th squadron of the 355th Fighter Group once loaded the guns of every fighter with 20 rounds of tracer ammunition in a row at the beginning of the ammo belts. The idea was to fire a barrage of tracer rounds at German fighters massing for frontal attacks on bomer formations.

M_Gunz
07-21-2007, 04:11 PM
If you think that 1 in 5 is a tracer and suddenly see a storm of tracers, you might just @#!+ yourself.

FritzGryphon
07-21-2007, 04:54 PM
Bigbear, we've all seen that video.

But we've also seen newer, better quality footage of 50cal tracers. It's much more red, and not blown out like in the old film.

In fact, even some guncam footage from the Pacific theatre shows red tracers.

Or better yet, just look at Iraq videos. They are the best of all. So long as they didn't change the formula they should still be the same color.

As for the size of the tracers, the M2 is the best one. It's the other guns that need to be changed. The Berezin and SHKAS tracers in particular are huge.

Some cool machine guns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK6OP8I_VsE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcM3eKO4F1c&mode=related&search=

Choctaw111
07-21-2007, 05:08 PM
This thread was not started about trajectories or any other things with the exception of color and brightness...which leads me to ask how many have seen the photo of the 50 cal tracer that I lit from 1944. I originally posted that photo about 3 years ago and a couple times since. I have fired the 50 cal about 6 bizillion times when I was in the Army and those tracers are very bright...BUT they were also not made during the Second World War either which is why I acquired some 50 cal tracer rounds manufactured during that time just to satisfy my curiosity. This photo, although poor quality (sorry) does show how bright the tracer is burning, and the color, on a very bright and sunny day. I lit the tracer with a propane torch and held the tracer with a pair of pliers so as not to burn my fingers. The flame you see IS NOT THE TORCH (propane burns blue) but the tracer only. Also make note of some smoke coming from it drifting to the left and up to just about my head level.
On an end note, the 50 cal tracers in Il2 LOOK GOOD FROM THE SIDE...BUT not so good from the front or back.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v343/PublicPhotoAccount2/50Cal.bmp

Scorpion.233
07-21-2007, 05:58 PM
Get your damn glasses old people.

I think the 50 has the best looking tracers, they are not hard to see. And they look a lot more realistic than any of the other tracers

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-21-2007, 07:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scorpion.233:
Get your damn glasses old people.

I think the 50 has the best looking tracers, they are not hard to see. And they look a lot more realistic than any of the other tracers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Italians have the best and easiest to see tracers.

3.JG51_BigBear
07-21-2007, 08:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scorpion.233:
Get your damn glasses old people.

I think the 50 has the best looking tracers, they are not hard to see. And they look a lot more realistic than any of the other tracers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Italians have the best and easiest to see tracers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the ****iest armament, go figure.

Skoshi Tiger
07-21-2007, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Some cool machine guns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK6OP8I_VsE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcM3eKO4F1c&mode=related&search= </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always thought Russians were weird, now I know. Out in the bush with your mates, Heavy machine guns and not a beer can to be seen! Shooting without beer, is like ..... Fishing without beer! It's just not right! Very stange people! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Also the lack of Ear protection is a bit of a worry!

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-22-2007, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And the ****iest armament, go figure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes they are pretty pathetic.

BBB_Hyperion
07-22-2007, 09:11 PM
So how much redshift did the normal USAF film have ? Is it possible to change color frequencies back to normal to show the difference of a recorded film and the impression that a human observer would get. (Of course we would lose some parts of the colors as they were not recorded originaly but more important is how much reduction in brightness we can see)