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Atomic_Marten
08-09-2005, 06:13 PM
Credit for (digging up) the links goes mainly to CWoS team. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Luftwaffe guncam (http://forum.virtualfighters.net/screens/video/LWguncam.avi) taken from several machines.

Several 8th/339th...clips (http://www.web-birds.com/8th/339/gun/gun.html)

For Japanese (http://www.bunmeisha.co.jp/eizo/eizo_syosai03.html) users. Maybe they can post some direct d/l links from there. Me can't understand.

The way they bailed (http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/Bailout.avi) in real life.

B-24 Liberator (http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/B24flakhit.mpeg) receives direct hit.

Wing (http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/wingsoff2.avi) removing.

For Typhoon (http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/Typhoons.mov) lovers.

And finally VVS (http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/RussianMid.WMV) footage. I wonder how that Yak v Bf-109 combat went.



If some of you have good guncam links please share...

JaguarMEX
08-09-2005, 08:53 PM
the VVS video is really cool, looks like a trailer or something. I think it was posted years ago in the sukhoi forums as I remember seeing some of those shots. The last one with the troops coming home had me crying the first time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

LeadSpitter_
08-09-2005, 11:57 PM
vvs looks like a pure propaganda film, some nice footage but its the same footage from the history channel and guncam documentary dvds you purchase when shows dated time pilot squadrons roundspent etc, and the two 190 clips are british and american guncams, the 2 190s loosing wing clip ones.

Thx for posting I also have seen these before, you should ask LLv34s and 24s posting thier links from virtualpilots but maybe you are a member and dont know it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S thanks once again

Atomic_Marten
08-10-2005, 04:35 AM
I'm glad you guys liked it.


Here is some more

Horrido! (http://rapidshare.de/files/3830304/horrido.m1v.html), Luftwaffe guncam (courtesy of Loco-S from CWoS)

B-17 Flying Fortress (http://www.sigx.net/russr/ww2-footage/B17Documentary12Mb.WMV) documentary (12MB). One combat sortie of B-17s. A must have for all of us aero fanatics.


About virtualpilots, I saw they have a t0n of clips... unfortunately I don't understand Czech language properly. I have some direct download links from their site, but it appears that you must be a member in order to download them.

Christos_swc
08-10-2005, 09:07 AM
Have been looking for something like these clips.
Nothing like the real thing.
Thanks a lot

Atomic_Marten
08-11-2005, 09:58 AM
fifties are dealing damage (http://www.redspar.com/downloads/50cals.avi)

ultimate proof that .50cal is undermodelled.

Deedsundone
08-11-2005, 10:03 AM
A bit off topic but how do you rename a link to a name of choice?

Atomic_Marten
08-11-2005, 10:12 AM
You have an option (3rd box from left, first is insert graemlins).
Box says URL and below title...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW has anyone watched Luftwaffe guncam video? I am curious about that FW-190A-7 that is outturning P-47 Thunderbolt and putting lead on him without much problems... P-47 is turning hard, maybe on the edge of stall, since white wingtip trails can be seen.

S.taibanzai
08-11-2005, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
You have an option (3rd box from left, first is insert graemlins).
Box says URL and below title...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW has anyone watched Luftwaffe guncam video? I am curious about that FW-190A-7 that is outturning P-47 Thunderbolt and putting lead on him without much problems... P-47 is turning hard, maybe on the edge of stall, since white wingtip trails can be seen.


you saw it too ))

Wel it was now fact that p-47 could not outurn any Luftwaffe fighter at low to medium speed

The p-47 was turning at the edge of stal

Jaws2002
08-11-2005, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
fifties are dealing damage (http://www.redspar.com/downloads/50cals.avi)

ultimate proof that .50cal is undermodelled.


I think that was a dora with 4 cannons or A-8 and he got the ammo box of the wing cannon not the fuel tank.

But nice footage. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BigganD
08-11-2005, 01:43 PM
Atomic_Marten the 50cal arent undermodelled, last night on spit vs 109 I was in A8 when a p51 came at my six, he was very close, one short burst and my wing went off, WARNING DONT PLAY ON LAGGY SERVERS! this wing rip would never happen if I where in warclouds.

Christos_swc
08-11-2005, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
You have an option (3rd box from left, first is insert graemlins).
Box says URL and below title...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW has anyone watched Luftwaffe guncam video? I am curious about that FW-190A-7 that is outturning P-47 Thunderbolt and putting lead on him without much problems... P-47 is turning hard, maybe on the edge of stall, since white wingtip trails can be seen.

I see nothing wrong with that.
If there was an a/c the 190 could outturn that has to be the P-47.
But one has to wonder what the US pilot thought he were doing engaging in a turn fight with the Thunderbolt...

Pirschjaeger
08-11-2005, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
fifties are dealing damage (http://www.redspar.com/downloads/50cals.avi)

ultimate proof that .50cal is undermodelled.


I think that was a dora with 4 cannons or A-8 and he got the ammo box of the wing cannon not the fuel tank.

But nice footage. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking the same thing; 190, not a 109. As he closes in the nose of the fuselage seems to be round and wide.

Another thing I noticed is that the 190's in the game do not turn as quickly as in the footage. I saw them do a few moves I wish were possible in the game. But, another thing to consider is the footage speed. How can we be sure that is accurate?

If I were to pull that hard and that fast on the stick, I would be in a spin. But once again, maybe the footage speed is off.

BTW, I fly 190's all the time and like to TnB rather than Bnz simple do to the poor visuals of the game. Without icons it's hard to figure out exactly what the enemy is doing.

Fritz

VFA-25_Peckens
08-11-2005, 11:04 PM
archive of vids here
http://album.virtualfighters.net/index.php

2 stafing films here
http://virtualpilots.webz.cz/guncam/Strafingg1.avi
and
http://virtualpilots.webz.cz/guncam/Strafing3.avi


and some stuff from the military channel websitehttp://military.discovery.com/convergence/guncamera/vid...ry/videogallery.html (http://military.discovery.com/convergence/guncamera/videogallery/videogallery.html)
b17 mission also from military channel site
http://military.discovery.com/strategies/videogallery/m...le/memphisbelle.html (http://military.discovery.com/strategies/videogallery/memphisbelle/memphisbelle.html)

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 02:15 AM
Thanks for links Peckens.

Clip from virtualpilots, I think those are 108s dealing damage (http://album.virtualfighters.net/albums/video/visdamage.avi) to B-17s.
If I may notice, very much like in game.

Christos_swc
08-12-2005, 03:38 AM
Pirschjaeger I too felt strange seeing the 190 pull those manouvres.
I thought he should have stalled ages ago.
That pilot obviously new his game I must say.
Of course, any comparison to the game based on this footage may not be reliable.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 07:27 AM
My honest impression is that in clip FW-190 turns better than in game. Simple as that. I would lie if I say otherwise.
First manoeuver for instance, you can do in game only if you are on high speed but then again if you press stick that hard you will blackout.

About speed of the clip, it may be off but still some general conclusions can be gained considering P-47 moves.

SeaFireLIV
08-12-2005, 07:33 AM
One has to be careful with real life gun cam clips. They are great for seeing things actually happen, BUT they only show one small moment in time. You don`t get to see what happened before - or after sometimes.

TWO example:

One guy posted a well-known guncam of a B17 being shot to pieces and not shooting back from the rear. the poster used this as evidence that fighters should be able to go right up a bomber`s 6 without fear of being hit. The reality was of course the rear-gunner had been previously incapacitated BEFORE the guncam started rolling. The proof of this is very clear when you look closely at the gunner`s position - the guns are clearly drooped - unmanned.

2nd:
One guy posted a guncam of a US plane shooting a ship with 0.50s. The ship exploded suddenly. This consequently started a zillion-page forum flaming that 0.50s could cut battleships in half! Of course, the reality was that the 0.50s hit something explosive that caused the catastrophic detonation, ammunition, etc.

You have to study these things carefully - think CSI.


I haven`t seen the FW clip (it won`t let me), but I`d say treat all such clips with caution.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 07:55 AM
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs..._filters/ffdshow.cfm (http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm) -- that is the link for ffdshow download, package which contains all most common codec filters. So you can watch them... more info on page. Be sure to check http://www.divx-digest.com/software/index2.html#codecs for DivX and XviD codecs info/download.

I use BSPlayer for viewing the clips, or Media Player Classic which is also good and simple player. I also use Real Alternative and Quick Time Alternative (that installs only the neccesary files which are required to watch the .mov and .rm files).

So fix that out Seafire and watch Luftwaffe Guncam (http://forum.virtualfighters.net/screens/video/LWguncam.avi) clip, there is a part named "FW190A7 - Thunderbolt" which is in question. What are your impressions of that footage?

TooMuchCheese
08-12-2005, 10:09 AM
Guncam runs at 1/3 or 1/4 of real time, otherwise the clips would be so short they would be hard to analyse.
Anything you see happened in 1/3rd to 1/4 of the time it took for you to watch it.

As to that supposed MK108 clip, I don't think it is MK108s, I think it is the normal 20mm wing cannon of either a 190A or 190D.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 10:27 AM
Guncam runs at 1/3 or 1/4 of real time, otherwise the clips would be so short they would be hard to analyse.
Anything you see happened in 1/3rd to 1/4 of the time it took for you to watch it.

If that is the case, than it is just one insane turn there ("FW190A7-Thunderbolt"). Just watch it again and multiply it by 3 or 4. Absolute insanity. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Our FB planes for sure can't turn like that. I'm not saying that is wrong or right since I don't know.


As to that supposed MK108 clip, I don't think it is MK108s, I think it is the normal 20mm wing cannon of either a 190A or 190D.

TBH I see no much difference between those (http://album.virtualfighters.net/albums/video/visdamage.avi) impacts and these (http://album.virtualfighters.net/albums/video/262vsB17.avi) ones. What do you think?

Xiolablu3
08-12-2005, 10:48 AM
Those Luftwaffe Me110 pilots are freaking crazy! You seen the first clip? He flys past the gunners positions at about 30 feet away!

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 10:51 AM
Either good zoom lens installed or the Zerst├┬Ârer pilot is total nutcase. My money is on second guess. Loco. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Xiolablu3
08-12-2005, 10:59 AM
Hehe,

Is it my imagination or is there a La5 or La7 with German markings at 1:50sec on that VVS video in the first post??

I'm guessing many of the German Aircraft on the movie in dogfights will be captured. All sides did a lot of this, especially for photos for Newspapers or films for Newsreels.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 11:11 AM
Yes that is LA-5 if you ask me -- with German markings. Before that we have Yak diving after Bf-109 (I think both aircraft are correct awesome shot IMO), and after that LA-5 with German markings.

Jaws2002
08-12-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Hehe,

Is it my imagination or is there a La5 or La7 with German markings at 1:50sec on that VVS video in the first post??

I'm guessing many of the German Aircraft on the movie in dogfights will be captured. All sides did a lot of this, especially for photos for Newspapers or films for Newsreels.

In that russian film is very little real war fotage. You can see a lot of yak-53's dressed as la5/7's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
Pure propaganda.

Atomic_Marten
08-12-2005, 12:20 PM
Gotta agree on that one. LA-5s are looking way better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Jaws2002
08-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Tricycle landing gear la-5's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-13-2005, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
fifties are dealing damage (http://www.redspar.com/downloads/50cals.avi)

ultimate proof that .50cal is undermodelled.


I think that was a dora with 4 cannons or A-8 and he got the ammo box of the wing cannon not the fuel tank.

But nice footage. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Jaws, Gibbage has shared his opinion on the clip with us:

The Jug pilot did not get lucky on the ammo, but got lucky on the fuel tank. The explosion came from the body of the aircraft, not the wing. When the ammo bay goes, there is NO fireball. Fireball needs fuel. No fuel in the wings, no fireball.

Remember that the P-47 has wing mounted guns. An aircraft that close is inside his conversion. That means he has TWO sets of guns, not just one. You may be seeing some sparking from API's hitting the FW-190's wings from the left guns, but you DONT see is the API's going into the fueltank from the RIGHT side guns.

Again, TNT or explosives do NOT cause FIREBALLS without FUEL!!!!!! Thats all Hollywood! Those are called "fuel bombs" for a reason in movies. If you watch guncam movies and see what an ammo bay explosion looks like, all you see is a flash, and the wing is missing. Then you have a spiraling FW-190. Then compair to video footage from a Zero that has many fireballs

My conclusion is that the P-47 pilot got an API into the fuel tank wile you guys were distracted by the sparks on the right wing.

I must say that I think he's got a point there.

SeaFireLIV
08-13-2005, 08:02 AM
Well, for some weird reason I still can`t get it to work. It just quits on me.

Anyway, gibbage`s quote makes sense.

Pirschjaeger
08-13-2005, 08:57 AM
I agree with Gibbage. For a flash like that you definitey need fuel. There would be a flash inside the ammo box and not all of the ammo would ignite. The pressure would blow apart the box disperse the ammo before the majority would even explode, and therefor only a minimal of flash.

You can also see that it is much more than just a flash. It's a continuous ball of flames.

Fritz

Jaws2002
08-13-2005, 09:06 AM
Yup. I suck as investigator. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
that perfectly visible hit in the ammo box was a good distraction.
I watched it again and sure thing the guns from the other wing are hitting the exact area of the fuel tank at the right angle. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Ankanor
08-13-2005, 09:29 AM
I may well have been the right wingroot MG151 ammo box. In this area are the ammo cases for the inner cannons and the nose machineguns, as well as the fuel line for the engine. The ammo explodes and fuel from the ruptured tanks catches fire. Check the other opinions in the thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif No one denies the fuel caused the big fireball. but the initial explosion...

Atomic_Marten
08-13-2005, 09:43 AM
I may well have been the right wingroot MG151 ammo box. In this area are the ammo cases for the inner cannons and the nose machineguns, as well as the fuel line for the engine. The ammo explodes and fuel from the ruptured tanks catches fire. Check the other opinions in the thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif No one denies the fuel caused the big fireball. but the initial explosion..

Who cares about what caused it? For all I care it may be a piece of flak shell from AA gun... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif it could be also valid opinion couldn't it?

Point is that large blast is not ammo explosion but fuel blast. I believe that most probable case of fuel explosion was M2 bullet, it may be from MG151 ammo box, but thing is there is no evidence of MG151 ammo box ignition at all.

But that is not only my opinion, apparently I share it with some guys on the forum and Bill Davis, fighter pilot from clip.

BTW why did we stuck with ammo box anyway?

For the exploding MG151 ammo box to prove it would probably take a *real* experts to determine whether it even goes off, and if it goes off is that cause of the fuel explosion and all other facts.

Only the fuel explosion is certain. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif