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Fighterduck
09-04-2006, 04:56 AM
Hi all,
there is another of my thread: this time is on the,..uhm...IL2 graphics.No, i wont write about pros and cons of it but of a, how can i tell you...a sensation i have when i look at planes models.
Dont know you, but me, i like using F2 button and watch planes from different point of view: in flight, taking off, in the clouds...you know, maybe taking some "romatic" screenshots ^^
But there is a thing i always felt..maybe it's only me but did you ever saw real planes and "compared" to the il2? Not from the point of view of details but..uhm...from a "complexity" point of view: i mean, if you look at a P-47 it looks heavy,"complex", big, huge...when i look at it in IL2 it dont give me any of those sensation. Maybe its also because of the crappy sound not real at all, but i dont feel using a 7tons plane. Same for the Corsair: if you see it durgin an air show it give you a sensation of "heavy manouvrability"..it's a huge bird..with an heavy nose...but again, in IL2 it seems so light..like a toy.
With 109 it's different.in this case i really feel using a "real" plane..it give me the right amount of "feeling" the plane have to give me.
It's difficult to explain, hope you understand what i mean. The point isnt to criticize il2 engine, that makes an amazing job, but its about the feeling you have watching some planes.

Bearcat99
09-04-2006, 09:13 AM
I think for the most part it's only you. The Jug not only looks big and heavy.. if you fly with FFB it feels heavier too. As fro the sound..it could always be better.. but as it is it isnt bad... I have a decent sound system on my PC and 5.1 speakers... it sounds pretty good to me.

VW-IceFire
09-04-2006, 10:42 AM
Must be you...I get in the Jug...sit it on the runway...go to the externals and I say to myself "My your a big one aren't you!"

Even moreso in the air...

To be honest...having tasted Flight Sim X demo...the sound here is WAY better. No its not great but its still better because the sound of the aircraft responds to what the aircraft is actually doing. Its not accurate in how it sounds but its accurate in what its doing. Not sure if that makes sense to you but ever since I tried the FS X demo (my first taste of Flight Sim in years) I felt that FB was better no matter how "bad" it sounds.

R_Target
09-04-2006, 11:12 AM
Decent skins can help a little to overcome what I call the "tiny" effect. Still, resolution for skins would have to be doubled (at least) to get correct scaling.

Fighterduck
09-04-2006, 11:14 AM
so must be me...but sorry..eheh...tried again but can feel it how it must to be...and worste is with the corsair..this one looks like a toy for me...uhm..maybe hight res skins would help.
Th 47 of wings of power is great...this one looks really heavy..and it sounds great...maybe have to wait for bob ^^

FritzGryphon
09-04-2006, 02:17 PM
Another problem might be the lack of a point of reference for the scale of the plane.

The pilot is really the only reference, but he looks chunky, and not very real. The pilot also appears much bigger than in real photos, possibly contributing to the 'small' effect.

super71957
09-04-2006, 03:42 PM
If you really want to see just how big the Corsair is ,park it next to a Spitfire.
You will really see a great difference.
This is the best way to judge aircraft size in this sim. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

Fighterduck
09-04-2006, 03:43 PM
really i dont know..but dont misunderstanding me: how i said i'm not criticizing il2 graphics, i love this game: it's just i thing i notice every time i use some kind of planes

major_setback
09-04-2006, 04:21 PM
I know what you mean.
I always thought the plans in CFS2 looked heavier. I think it has to do with the fact that in FB the external view 'camera' is locked solid onto the model - it doesn't move at all relative to the model (unless you move the mouse). In CFS2 the camera waves up and down slightly relative to the aircraft model so that you feel it's movement, momentum etc. you also get the feeling you are in another aircraft observing it. I love the externals in CFS2.
The fact that you can zoom in further in CFS2 makes it feel like you can get closer to the aircraft; and therefore, that they are bigger.
Also I must add that I love the clour of the skins!!!!

Don't these look bigger??

CFS2:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/George001gam01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/George002gam01.jpg


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Hellcat002gam01.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Hellcat001gam01.jpg



<span class="ev_code_GREY">.</span>

Fighterduck
09-05-2006, 01:09 AM
^^ finally someone that understand what i mean http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
you see..this one dont looks "heay" at all to me

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Fighterphone/86thFG-Historia-Run-01.jpg

but this one is perfect

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Fighterphone/sp4.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Fighterphone/2.jpg

cant explin why but the second one look how a p-47 have to be...complex,huge,heavy.But the first one doesnt give me any of those feeling. It feel heavy when you use it ony because of the flight model that is different from others..but only because of this.

zbig77
09-05-2006, 02:48 AM
I would say the problem is FOV (field of view) of the external camera. Its like in photography. You get different effect when viewing the object with 200mm lens and 28mm lens (adjusting the distance to fill the same area of the frame). In FB the FOV looks to be fixed for externals, you just move the camera. Maybe this fixed FOV is just too small tahts why you get that impression.

EJGrOst_Caspar
09-07-2006, 07:29 AM
Since you have only a flat monitor in front of you, you never will experience the true 'weight' of a plane, no matter what game there is. I once could test some 3D cyberglasses with IL-2. Only for a few minutes, but it was impressive. You could virtually add the information of distance to the information of shape and got a quite good feeling of the size of planes. It was great but I was more interested in how the distance to the ground would 'feel' and so I didn't care much for planes. But this was stunning! I almost was frightening.

Read this:
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/3dglass.htm

Aesuai
09-08-2006, 01:18 AM
I'd bet you're reacting to the difference in wing appearance. The Il2 wings tend to be thinner at the tips while the same planes in the other games seem to stay pretty bulky. What d'ya think?

Fighterduck
09-08-2006, 04:33 AM
well..uhm...i really dont know what is. wings Of Power models are really great, like for the p47, they looks really "complex" and seems really heavy.I think hight res skins play a part, with some little modelling difference and stunning sound.This one is perfect.It sound very close to the real.I have Xfi creative card and 5.1 speaker, but il2 sounds are just not real at all sorry.The best sound i ever expirienced is the Spifire one from RealAir..this is perfect!But im not here to discuss or criticize il2 sounds. Like i said, some planes looks and feel like big toys to me..they seems heavy only for a much "heavy" fliught model..but when i take screenshots, well they dont satisfy me.But not for all planes: I love Mig or 109E, and much more..but i asked myself why p-47 and Corsair looked so "un-complex" to me.

stansdds
09-08-2006, 05:39 AM
I think a big part of the problem lies in the resolution of the planes. You can put massive detail into a new void and then create beautifully detailed skins, then when you resize them to 1024 x 1024 and reduce them to 256 colors you lose so much detail.

Chuck_Older
09-08-2006, 09:47 AM
I don't see any lack of 'weight' in the FB models

This seems to me to be a preference for one type of 3D rendering versus another

I have no idea what this lack of complexity issue is all about

Nobody has ever said that sounds in this sim are realistic. I thought this was about visual modelling

major_setback
09-08-2006, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Aesuai:
I'd bet you're reacting to the difference in wing appearance. The Il2 wings tend to be thinner at the tips while the same planes in the other games seem to stay pretty bulky. What d'ya think?

I think you might have hit on the reason there. Not just the tip; the root of the wing moulds more realistically to the body in some other sim models. FB planes seem to have a good amount of poly's, but there seem to be fewer used modelling the wings than there are for the rest of the model.
The chunkier wings look more realistic. FB wings look (sometimes) like folded cardboard.