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luckyluca
05-02-2004, 04:15 PM
Hello,

It might sound a stupid question but I'm having serious problems trying to bomb targets...

I'm using bf109/p51/p47/fw190 and never score a hit using bombs.............
(I'm a good fighter though... :-)

can someone tell me where to find effective tecniques on how to bomb targets using fighters?

I'm playing BOE and most os the early invasion USA campaing are bombing enemy targets BOMB,BOMB,BOMB!

thanks

luckyluca
05-02-2004, 04:15 PM
Hello,

It might sound a stupid question but I'm having serious problems trying to bomb targets...

I'm using bf109/p51/p47/fw190 and never score a hit using bombs.............
(I'm a good fighter though... :-)

can someone tell me where to find effective tecniques on how to bomb targets using fighters?

I'm playing BOE and most os the early invasion USA campaing are bombing enemy targets BOMB,BOMB,BOMB!

thanks

Curly_109
05-02-2004, 05:25 PM
only practice there is no magic wand... bombing in this game is extremely difficult above 500m (with exception of He111 which makes bombing runs easier http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif).

when i dive too low i hit the target most of times but i frequently got shot up by AA or by my own bomb when explode.

take great care of your speed, alt and find the right moment. then repeat over and over again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

AcesHigh_AVG
05-02-2004, 05:37 PM
The best thing to do to improve aim is to attack the target with a roughly 45 degree nose down attitude.

Kamikaze_Gibbon
05-02-2004, 06:07 PM
Look on Bearcat99's Sturmovik Essentials (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=51910959) thread for some very good sites on IL-2 and air combat in general.

A quick browse through reveals an air to ground section onTailspin's Tales (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tailspin/index.htm)

There are almost certainly many other sites but this is the first one I found on that list.

My personal preference for mudmoving is to go in fast (400km/h) and low (<50m) with a 2 second bomb delay. Line up on the target and release the bomb when the target just passes below the gunsight.

As with all tactics, the more you practice the better you will become.

Hope this helps a little. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Kamikaze Gibbon

bird_brain
05-02-2004, 06:08 PM
I have good luck diving at a steep angle and releasing just as the target passes under the nose @ about 100m alt.

Set a 3-4 second delay on your bombs so you can climb away before they go off. Any longer delay and the target can move away or stop before it runs over the bombs embedded in the road.

Rockets are great because you can fire @ about 500m with pretty good accuracy but they do less damage than a 500k bomb. Also you cannot get rid of the launch tubes if you get in a dogfight so I prefer not to use them if expecting air opposition.

http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/Aces_Banner.jpg
Download the missions here: http://jyarbrough.homestead.com/Files.html

Papa_K
05-02-2004, 06:17 PM
As was said, Practice is the key.

More specific rules of thumb:

Fly your butt over the target. This will set your 3/9 o'clock (left/right) errors. (Wind seems to have little effect here.)

To practice, its practical to set up a quick mission with unlimited ammo (bombs).

The easiest delivery to master is an low angle delivery where you practically scrape the bomb off on the target. Do these first and get comfortable. Roll in like you're going to strage the target, but press in and fly JUST ABOVE the target. The bomb has nowhere to go but into the target - no fuss, no muss.

Now move up the delivery altitude.

Start off set some specific parameters. For example, starting from a 1000m AGL perch, get consistent on your roll-in, note dive angle and keep it (don't start steep and slowly pull up, constantly changing dive angle - do this later, when your good, maybe). Set your speed (throttle back). Pipper on the target, pick a release point that looks "right". Note your altitude. (Also note your dive angle and airspeed for future comparison.) See where your bomb lands. (If you don't see it, you can't correct.) If long, you released too late (too low/too close to the target); if short, you released too soon (too high/too far from the target) for the specific parameters (dive angle and airspeed) of that particular delivery.

(Quickly crosschecking your attitude, airspeed and altitude, while flying directly over the target with proper pipper placement... Easy right?)

Do it again and make a correction. Same starting altitude, speed, roll-in, dive angle, etc. (Consistency!) Your dive angle and speed should be in the same ballpark.
Make a correction to your release point, i.e. altitude/distance from the target, based on your prior delivery. Set the pipper on the target, quick checks of the altitude, and drop at the corrected release point. Note the 6/12 (long/short) error again. You should be narrowing down the optimum release altitude.

(Another useful aid would be bombing a target that gives an icon readout -- it gives you distance to the target. Once you get the sight picture and parameters ingrained into your head, you won't need this readout.)

Once you're reasonably successful from one starting altitude, 1000m for example, move the starting altitude up to 2000m, 3000m, 4000m. You'll be using a steeper dive angle, and your delivery speeds will be higher.

Eventually, you'll be able to roll in from just about any altitude, at any dive angle and airspeed, and drop on by TLAR method (that looks about right).

NOTE: A 90% delivery, coming straight down at the target, is relatively easy here, since there's no (or very little) wind effect, and delivery altitude isn't as critical when you're diving straight down at the target.

Papa_K

Papa_K
05-02-2004, 06:24 PM
Correction: Change "strage the target" in about paragraph 4-5 above, to "strafe the target". (Or strage it if you really want to.)

Don't get too wound up in the above post's description...just practice, work on being consistent, and fly your butt over the target.

mortoma
05-02-2004, 10:26 PM
I used to stink like you too but I practiced and now I'm really good at it. That's all you need to do. Reading some of the stuff they suggested can't hurt either.

Papa_K
05-03-2004, 01:59 AM
Something to add to earlier post:

Using the sight works fine for me with medium dive angles (20%) or greater. You have to use a lower portion of the sight for lower dive angles, since you can't add mils (lower the sight).

Why would you want to lower the sight? Let's say you want to do a 500 ft (about 150m) level bomb run - a perfectly viable option. The sight isn't even on the ground. If you could dial in the right mils, lowering the sight for a manual level delivery, you could use it, but in this game you can't.

Since you can't lower the sight, you have to use a lower portion of the the sight. The lowest usable portion is where the vertical crosshair meets the sight ring.

NOTE: With manual bomb deliveries, you have a set amount of sight depression to input depending on the type of delivery to be done. You can set mils for level, 5%, 10%, 20%, 30%...

Bottom line...forget about level deliveries in this game unless you're VERY low (and have to pull up to avoid the target). Use some portion of the sight below the crosshairs for deliveries below 20%.

I just went back and did some deliveries, and I found myself flying level into the point where I could intercept a 20% dive delivery. Twenty degrees or higher is comfortable with the sight in this game, and you have to force yourself NOT to use the crosshairs on shallow deliveries.

A good practice scenario is to go multiplay, create server, dogfight, select DOGFIGHT1. Set unlimited ammo. Choose a P-47 and 2 x 500lb bombs, and fly over to the next airfield for some practice. P-47 is good for this, not only because it's a good bombing platform, but because you WILL take some AAA hits -- Take out the AAA first. You won't survive every session, but it's good practice.

Papa_K


NOTE on bomb delivery progression after the manual delivery days:
With CCIP (constantly computed impact point) delivery modes (F-4 or later) the sight will tell you where the bomb will hit for the current aircraft flight parameters, wind at current altitude, and even include manually input (pre-takeoff) input winds at various altitudes in the calculations. This change (very early 70s) led to more accurate bomb deliveries, but the quality of pilot bombing patterns became inconsistent. Why? They didn't have to be consistent. (A lot like the change from using DR and piloting to navigate, to totally relying on the onboard nav systems -- the ability to navigate precisely without relying on the machine was lost to many new pilots.) A lost art, but it's too bad. Setting consistent parameters, and not forcing the computer to compute for wildly varying aircraft inputs for each delivery, produces better deliveries even with CCIP. Corrections had to be set in -- normally the required correction (for example, a time delay or increase for bomb release) was usually consistent for each specific jet, but some systems (individual aircraft) were better than others. Later aircraft types, generally have more accurate system potential than others, e.g., the F-16 vs. the F-4 when delivering dumb bombs.
With "smart bombs" (mid 80s to now) a bomb delivery is more like putting the bomb into an acceptable delivery funnel. The target is designated from a screen display, and the bomb will steer itself to the target. The bomb just has to be deliveried within acceptable parameters (altitude, airspeed, distance from target, dive angle...) to reach the target. When you reach the acceptable parameters, you get a signal, such as a flashing sight, that it's ok to release the bomb. The target is designated by laser, visual or IR visual, etc., and could even be designated from another source, such as another aircraft with a designator pod through data link.
Even later (early 90s to now) JDAM (joint direct attack munition) relies on target coordinate inputs and onboard GPS/INS. Accuracy is great on JDAMs, but it's hard to get the exact coordinates of some targets, or moving targets, and in some situations. Airborne and ground ability to get quick coordinates to pass to JDAM-capable bomber platforms is improving, and another bonus is that the JDAM kit is relatively cheap (about $18k?) compared to other "smart" munitions, that can be $250k/$500k and up. The JDAM kit just adds onto pre-existing bomb bodies - it just puts a nose and tail section onto a standard bomb.
Accuracy is great on the "smart bombs", both those that rely on designators and JDAMs. They've been called "force multipliers." One F-15E, for example, can now take out a target that would take a whole squadron (or more) of B-17s in WWII (just to hit the target). I personally wouldn't call it a multiplier, but maybe a focuser, of force. And, there are still situations where a large quantity of dumb bombs is just the ticket, carpeting an area rather than pinpoint precision on a specific target. (If you ask the Army, a lot of times all they want or need is something to go "Boom" somewhere near or amongst the bad guys.)

[OT inputs over. Sorry for boring rant.]

Papa_K
05-03-2004, 02:18 AM
I just read my input above...what garbage...the point?

We don't have ANY computer inputs for assitance when doing bomb deliveries in this game...it's all manual. We can't even depress the sight for varying dive angles. (I don't know if later WWII fighters did this or not. If it was possible to depress the sight (set mils) in WWII, it would be a good addition here.)

Consistency is important, but what you'll be LOOKING for is a "sight picture" that looks right for each delivery.

When you go to shoot someone in this game, with icons off, you rely on sight picture -- how big is the enemy aircraft relative to my sight?

When all the parameters for a good bomb delivery come together, you get a "good sight picture" for that type of delivery. That's where TLAR comes into play.

Papa_K

Mitlov47
05-03-2004, 02:34 AM
Go into QMB with unlimited ammo, attacking armor on the "Moscow" map. Don't worry about the tanks--tanks are immune to many bombs unless they literally hit the tank. Practice against the train, the vehicle column, and the bridges. Make pass after pass after pass, noting each time:
1) What speed was I?
2) What angle was I coming in at?
3) How far from the target was I?
Then note where the bomb lands and think about where in your view the target was when you released. At high speeds, 30% dive, and close-to-target release (requiring bomb delay), the "crosshairs for bombs" will often be the top of the fuselage. Practice and practice and soon you'll be pinpoint accurate.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1082406218_spitfiresigsmall2.jpg

luckyluca
05-04-2004, 03:31 AM
Thanks guys I've followed your advices and tried practising with unlimited ammos.
To be honest I didn't imagine to improve so quickly! the trick was to imagine in my head where the bomb was going to fall; however I've noticed I can only score hits (85% accuracy) with a steep angle and flying relatively low (100-500m) releasing the bomb when the target is at the bottom of the gunsight (where the fuselage start (thanks!!) ).
bottom line: AAA I get hit almost all the times! so the solution for me is to load rockets and to fire a couple of rockets to the AAA first....
How would you advice me to knock the AAA off?
with guns?

and PAPA, thanks for your esaurient posts, just wondering what TLAR means.

cheers
Luca

SUPERAEREO
05-04-2004, 04:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by luckyluca:
How would you advice me to knock the AAA off?
with guns?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, with AI wingmen armed with rockets.

You feel guilty afterwards, but they were only AI after all, and their deaths necessary... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

S!


"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

salthill
05-04-2004, 06:14 AM
hi
on this bombing subject:
anyone know where there are some skip bombing tracks for download
especially showing the bombs skipping off the water or ground prior to hitting the target
chhers

Papa_K
05-04-2004, 05:04 PM
TLAR = That Looks About Right

I know it was hard to pull out of my extended (often off-topic) rant.

Papa_K

Locust_
05-04-2004, 06:09 PM
#1 Set Bomb delay to .9 (thats 9/10ths of a second) Thats plenty of time.

#2 Dive at a 20/30 degree angle

#3 Zoom in with the Gunsight view.

#4 Put the target halfway between the bottom of the sight & the center of the sight.

#5 Wait untill it looks like your going to smash into the target, then release the bomb & Pull up.

#6 Kiss the enemy goodby !!!

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/sigp38.jpg