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The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 05:30 PM
I have been an avid fan of the assassins creed player since the first, I have played and enjoyed the Splinter Cell series Far Cry and other great Ubisoft games.

When I purchased Revelations NEW I found they adapted the online pass. STUPID. My brother who also has an account used the code now I'm stuck with no online (or a crappy three day trial).

Why do I need to buy an online pass? What does Ubisoft gain from this? Right now it is just an annoyed fan.

P.S. The server argument holds no water as there will only be one person online at a time.

Krayus Korianis
11-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Fun fact, if it's the same console you both share the pass.

Next time, don't let your brother redeem the code... Der.

The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 05:53 PM
Actually since the code goes through the Uplay servers it registers everyone individually therefore not allowing me to play. Also you every hear of letting your little brother get something for once?

EscoBlades
11-16-2011, 05:54 PM
Devs and publishers don't work for free. They have to eat as well. And maintain the server structure used to bring you the game online. Would you rather whine about the increased retail price of games? No? Then stump up for an online pass. You probably spend more on fast food anyway (i know that's an assumption, but it gets my point across)

Krayus Korianis
11-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by The_Gatti:
Actually since the code goes through the Uplay servers it registers everyone individually therefore not allowing me to play. Also you every hear of letting you little brother get something for once?

Nope. Because my brother don't live here.

http://uplay.us.ubi.com/passport/

Check that out, it details what will follow:

"Does every user on my console need to have a unique Uplay Passport redeemed?

No, after a Uplay Passport is redeemed by a console user, all other console users will be able to access the content."

The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 05:57 PM
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

Krayus Korianis
11-16-2011, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It don't go through the Uplay Server. It's downloadable content that gets put on your console that enables you to play online.

Do I need to spell it out more?

The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Krayus_Korianis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
Actually since the code goes through the Uplay servers it registers everyone individually therefore not allowing me to play. Also you every hear of letting you little brother get something for once?

Nope. Because my brother don't live here.

http://uplay.us.ubi.com/passport/

Check that out, it details what will follow:

"Does every user on my console need to have a unique Uplay Passport redeemed?

No, after a Uplay Passport is redeemed by a console user, all other console users will be able to access the content." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, when I tried it before it only gave me the option to buy or get a 3-day trial.

EscoBlades
11-16-2011, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It makes perfect sense. What....you think it costs nothing to run servers? And bear in mind that those who buy preowned copies of the game, and then take it online have contributed next to nothing towards the upkeep of those servers that they will use to play.

Publishers see hardly any money from the sale of a preowned game. So why not create the incentive to make people either buy the game new, or purchase an additional online pass. Either way, it makes perfect sense. You not liking it, is another matter. get over it.

The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It makes perfect sense. What....you think it costs nothing to run servers? And bear in mind that those who buy preowned copies of the game, and then take it online have contributed next to nothing towards the upkeep of those servers that they will use to play.

Publishers see hardly any money from the sale of a preowned game. So why not create the incentive to make people either buy the game new, or purchase an additional online pass. Either way, it makes perfect sense. You not liking it, is another matter. get over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying it costs nothing to run the servers, what I'm saying is that if a person buys it new with the online pass and returns it there still is only one person on the server. If the first person never got rid of it there would be still only one person there.

The server capacity would not increase.

EscoBlades
11-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by The_Gatti:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It makes perfect sense. What....you think it costs nothing to run servers? And bear in mind that those who buy preowned copies of the game, and then take it online have contributed next to nothing towards the upkeep of those servers that they will use to play.

Publishers see hardly any money from the sale of a preowned game. So why not create the incentive to make people either buy the game new, or purchase an additional online pass. Either way, it makes perfect sense. You not liking it, is another matter. get over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying it costs nothing to run the servers, what I'm saying is that if a person buys it new with the online pass and returns it there still is only one person on the server. If the first person never got rid of it there would be still only one person there.

The server capacity would not increase. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but at least that one person has conrtributed towards their use of it, regardless of how long that period may be.

The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It makes perfect sense. What....you think it costs nothing to run servers? And bear in mind that those who buy preowned copies of the game, and then take it online have contributed next to nothing towards the upkeep of those servers that they will use to play.

Publishers see hardly any money from the sale of a preowned game. So why not create the incentive to make people either buy the game new, or purchase an additional online pass. Either way, it makes perfect sense. You not liking it, is another matter. get over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying it costs nothing to run the servers, what I'm saying is that if a person buys it new with the online pass and returns it there still is only one person on the server. If the first person never got rid of it there would be still only one person there.

The server capacity would not increase. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but at least that one person has conrtributed towards their use of it, regardless of how long that period may be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is true, but still the concept is flawed.

Silvrslide
11-16-2011, 06:16 PM
Oh my god POOOR UBISOFT. They have an extremely popular franchise that sells millions of copies, but THE SERVERS ARE RUINING THEM.

Come on now, Naughty Dog tried to do the same . It's not like these servers are dedicated.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Language Please</span>

The_Gatti
11-16-2011, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Silvrslide:
Oh my god POOOR UBISOFT. They have an extremely popular franchise that sells millions of copies, but THE SERVERS ARE RUINING THEM.

Come on now, Naughty Dog tried to do the same. It's not like these servers are dedicated.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Language Please</span>
Thank you

Black_Widow9
11-16-2011, 10:03 PM
Please contact Ubisoft Support if you are having issues. You are correct in saying

No, after a Uplay Passport is redeemed by a console user, all other console users will be able to access the content.
That is what the Facts are here-
What Is Uplay Passport? (http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/15153/p/185)
They should be able to clear it up for you. The link is also in my signature.

Yoshack Fyre84
11-16-2011, 10:35 PM
Ebay has a few UPLAY passes available for around $5, cheaper than the $10 you'd have to pay. I agree it is totally ridiculous to make separate accounts need a special pass to play multiplayer. Maybe its because they didn't make enough money NOT selling me an Ultimate Collector's edition by just not being available. Luckily I'm the only one who plays on my Xbox. But if I was forced to buy one, I would not buy direct because it's just a reason to nickel and dime their customers. Why they've chosen to do this, I don't know. But definitely buy off Ebay, you save money and they get one less sale. Hopefully enough people boycott or buy off Ebay they realize what a stupid idea it was to try and rob their once loyal customers.

If someone buys the game pre-owned and goes online, that's not creating an extra person online that they need space on the server for, because now the original owner doesn't have a copy of the game anymore. The Uplay passport might be worth it if the Multiplayer Matchmaking wasn't a complete pain to use that takes way too long. My time is MONEY. Yours may be too.

Blind2Society
11-16-2011, 10:42 PM
I agree with the OP, the move to online passes is a bad one in my eyes. I don't agree with it and never will. To me, it's greed, plain and simple. Reminds me of greedy rich bad guys from Disney movies.

Esco, you're trying to tell me the Ubi devs were starving after ACB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

zeejay21
11-17-2011, 12:10 AM
To the OP,

Why did you give the code to your brother? I know you want to be nice but sharing an online pass is the same as giving it away (or in a PC gamer sense, giving the game activation code away). If you want to play or access features online, your online pass is essentially your 'password'.

And I don't get your excuse of 'letting your little brother get something for once'? Your game that you share and play isn't exactly a gift - it's just plain sharing. You wanna get something for your brother? Buy the (new) game and give it to your brother as a present. Now that's a gift.

And regarding to accounts, man, if you're on Steam, I think you gonna go ballistic with their system over there (glad that you're not, hopefully).

EDIT: Before people even tried to counter me:

'Does every user on my console need to have a unique Uplay Passport redeemed?
No, after a Uplay Passport is redeemed by a console user, all other console users will be able to access the content.'

Please read: www.uplay.com/passport (http://www.uplay.com/passport)

CRUDFACE
11-17-2011, 12:38 AM
I hate it to. It turns allot of people away.

To me, this is doing the opposite of what some MMO games are doing. Most are now going free, but you can buy things on the side.

With this Ubisoft should make it free for people who brought the game like most of us did first. Then people can play a restricted form of it with some things locked. That way they can pay for the full thing later on...

zeejay21
11-17-2011, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by t260z:

With this Ubisoft should make it free for people who brought the game like most of us did first. Then people can play a restricted form of it with some things locked. That way they can pay for the full thing later on...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

It is free for people who bought it new, just not for buyers who buy used.

Also, your idea is already taken... by EA in DA2. The contents were already on the disc, it was hidden & locked until the right time. It was frown upon by the game's community since it requires people to buy a special edition, promotions, other games and/or DLCs just to unlock them. You want Ubisoft to do that?


And also, I love an answer to this question:

What are the main reasons online passes is hated?

EscoBlades
11-17-2011, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by Blind2Society:

Esco, you're trying to tell me the Ubi devs were starving after ACB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Hardly. But let's look at some facts.

Development costs on a franchise like AC are astronomical (especially when you have 6 Ubi studios involved). If you need Ubi's latest figures, you can view my posts on them here! (http://www.xboxgamezone.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubisoft-reports-first-half-2011-12-results/)

Once you've read between the lines, and you realise that:

a) Devs aren't rockstars and make very little in return for crunch, long hours and a ton of hard work
b) Server maintenance is extremely expensive contrary to popular belief
c) publishers see next to no money from the sale of used games.

you begin to understand the reasoning behind the Online Pass...which is effectively a "sunk cost" for the player. or would you rather new games start costing $70 or more?

Mr_Shade
11-17-2011, 05:55 AM
Just to stick my oar in..
Re the first post..

The online pass (Uplay passport) should allow anyone playing on the same console, on any profile access..
So it's not really "that" bad...

The real problem is brothers..

If your brother has a different console to you - you could always swap.. And tell him not to steal your games..

Or tell your parents - but considering the age rating on the game, you should be old enough to make your brother understand yourself..

zeejay21
11-17-2011, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
...

c) publishers see next to no money from the sale of used games.

...

I'll strengthen this fact by saying that the money goes to the retailers in a 'wheel'*.

This is why publishers are going digital more & more such as EA's Origin. On Steam and App Store, there's more indie devs than on retail so that they can receive money directly - so that they can invest more on developing and improving their games. The same thing for big companies.


* That means repeatedly. Sell new games at full price, buy used games, sell it again in an almost full price. Retailers got rich by multiple of sales, publisher got one sale only from one-time purchase.

SpitfireSpud
11-17-2011, 08:20 AM
ouch, so now that I bought my game, I also bought an online pass as the missus likes to play assassins, I just presumed that it was like EAs Online Pass where you need 2 separate codes... so the one I now bought on XBL MP, she will be able to use?

Does this mean the one I got with the game can be used by someone else? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif lol

scope2005
11-17-2011, 02:21 PM
My understanding of why this is done, is because games developers and publishers are losing a lot of money to thier games being bought again and again pre-owned.

Games with awesome online modes like battlefield, and Call of Duty are in high demand. I have seen games like Bad Company 2 and Call of Duty: Black Ops being sold by large UK retailers PREOWNED for around the same price as a brand new RETAIL copy.

Its VERY exploitive, as some people will pay this price as the games are hugely popular. The publishers complain that they are missing out on revenue to keep thier online servers up and running.

So basically buy the game preowned for a cheaper price and you will have to buy a seperate online pass - upside is that games which use this system will likely come down in price when pre-owned due to the fact it wont have multi-player out of the box.

Blind2Society
11-17-2011, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
Hardly. But let's look at some facts.

Development costs on a franchise like AC are astronomical (especially when you have 6 Ubi studios involved). If you need Ubi's latest figures, you can view my posts on them here! (http://www.xboxgamezone.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubisoft-reports-first-half-2011-12-results/)

Once you've read between the lines, and you realise that:

a) Devs aren't rockstars and make very little in return for crunch, long hours and a ton of hard work
b) Server maintenance is extremely expensive contrary to popular belief
c) publishers see next to no money from the sale of used games.

you begin to understand the reasoning behind the Online Pass...which is effectively a "sunk cost" for the player. or would you rather new games start costing $70 or more?
Sorry man, I'm just not buyin it.

Oh, and what difference does it make if publishers see money from used sales? They are used, meaning they already saw money from it.

I stand by what I said in my first post.

CRUDFACE
11-17-2011, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by zeejay21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:

With this Ubisoft should make it free for people who brought the game like most of us did first. Then people can play a restricted form of it with some things locked. That way they can pay for the full thing later on...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

It is free for people who bought it new, just not for buyers who buy used.

Also, your idea is already taken... by EA in DA2. The contents were already on the disc, it was hidden & locked until the right time. It was frown upon by the game's community since it requires people to buy a special edition, promotions, other games and/or DLCs just to unlock them. You want Ubisoft to do that?


And also, I love an answer to this question:

What are the main reasons online passes is hated? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know that. I was restating the plan. Basically, people who brought it new have full access while people who buy it used should have a restricted access and some game modes. Then they can simply pay for the extra content if they want to. I'm not saying to hide it, and DA2 dlc was all story stuff, this is just multiplayer. My friend warned me that DA2 restricted story, mine won't. It's multiplayer, so it's all about gameplay there. Two different things.

And I'm not saying you have to buy a special edition, etc for more stuff. You'll just buy it like DLC one time and then you're done for good.

It's like getting 50% then paying a little bit for the other 50%.

-I don't like Online passes because they restrict the access of the game.

-People are less inclined to pay for it

-feels like it's all about money with the fact that there's no leeway. Either you have it or you don't.

luckyto
11-17-2011, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:

Esco, you're trying to tell me the Ubi devs were starving after ACB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Hardly. But let's look at some facts.

Development costs on a franchise like AC are astronomical (especially when you have 6 Ubi studios involved). If you need Ubi's latest figures, you can view my posts on them here! (http://www.xboxgamezone.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubisoft-reports-first-half-2011-12-results/)

Once you've read between the lines, and you realise that:

a) Devs aren't rockstars and make very little in return for crunch, long hours and a ton of hard work
b) Server maintenance is extremely expensive contrary to popular belief
c) publishers see next to no money from the sale of used games.

you begin to understand the reasoning behind the Online Pass...which is effectively a "sunk cost" for the player. or would you rather new games start costing $70 or more? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, they won't go to $70 unless all publishers do. But you are right - publishers are facing increasing cost pressures now.

Server maintenance is pricey, but a fraction of what the cost of the actual hardware is and not prohibitive. A well-designed server farm shouldn't need a lot of maintenance. .... though, AC wasn't a multiplayer to begin with; so Ubisoft must have done the cost/benefit analysis on this and saw it as a profitable strategy, right?

Plus, if all this money was going to developers and creators instead of the LONG list of executives, VPs, marketing/sales teams, and shareholders (watch the credits); then your first point might have a little more bite. Yes, developers work very long hours over months at a time and get paid very little in comparison to their effort. THEY DESERVE TO GET PAID. Ubisoft has a lot of overhead though.

I especially do not pity the executives who have decided to cut every corner for annual releases and milk this baby dry. It's obvious, most everyone is wise to it. Ubisoft is not going broke.

My thought is that you should make great games that people want Day One, and then produce solid DLC content to compensate for your losses on resale. Make a good product, market it truthfully and consumers will reward you over the long haul.

Serrachio
11-17-2011, 04:28 PM
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...re-Bad-For-Everybody (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4568-Online-Passes-Are-Bad-For-Everybody)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...ave-A-Right-To-Exist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4720-Used-Games-Have-A-Right-To-Exist)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...roblem-Of-Used-Games (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4745-Fighting-The-Problem-Of-Used-Games)

Watch these and you might understand something about how used games aren't bad.

Krayus Korianis
11-17-2011, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...re-Bad-For-Everybody (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4568-Online-Passes-Are-Bad-For-Everybody)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...ave-A-Right-To-Exist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4720-Used-Games-Have-A-Right-To-Exist)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...roblem-Of-Used-Games (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4745-Fighting-The-Problem-Of-Used-Games)

Watch these and you might understand something about how used games aren't bad.

I just saw a fat man cry and whine and almost have a heart attack and possibly many mini-strokes throughout those videos...

Serrachio
11-17-2011, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Krayus_Korianis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...re-Bad-For-Everybody (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4568-Online-Passes-Are-Bad-For-Everybody)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...ave-A-Right-To-Exist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4720-Used-Games-Have-A-Right-To-Exist)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...roblem-Of-Used-Games (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4745-Fighting-The-Problem-Of-Used-Games)

Watch these and you might understand something about how used games aren't bad.

I just saw a fat man cry and whine and almost have a heart attack and possibly many mini-strokes throughout those videos... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still, he has a point.

jkellyg
11-17-2011, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It makes perfect sense. What....you think it costs nothing to run servers? And bear in mind that those who buy preowned copies of the game, and then take it online have contributed next to nothing towards the upkeep of those servers that they will use to play.

Publishers see hardly any money from the sale of a preowned game. So why not create the incentive to make people either buy the game new, or purchase an additional online pass. Either way, it makes perfect sense. You not liking it, is another matter. get over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why be a punk about it? You act like ubi isn't a multimillion dollar company, if not billion. I'm sure they're not starving. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan for the company but I don't see the mods on here being rude. If they weren't making jack off these games then they wouldn't be able to drop the price in the months to come.

zeejay21
11-18-2011, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by t260z:

...

This post is intended for everyone, not just the ones I'd quoted:

I don't think people like to buy half-baked games especially at full price. There was already a lot of people complaining when DLC was first introduced and they still continue complaining up to this day.

The issue here lies within customer's abuse as well as retailers' making a work-around. The game companies receive only one sale while retailers attain multiple sales - this isn't illegal but it is unfair. That's why game companies go digital. They want to cut the middle man who exploited them (who wouldn't?).

Look at the market now, all console retail games are getting higher in price. People complained. Game companies tried to calm gamer's sentiment by not further increasing the price, instead give options such as DLCs and hoping it can cover costs. They are already struggling to cover-up expenses and I'm not just talking about servers, I'm talking about disc licenses, rent, taxes, workers' salary, transportation, advertising, promotions, all that commerce stuff.

Online pass is just a solution, a very tiny solution, only cost $10 and people still complained. YET people also complained about the lack of quality in games ex.: 'the animation & graphics are soooo 2004!' They blame on the lack of talent of the designers, what they don't know is that these are also human beings with lives and they need to be paid or funded. People see the companies' financial charts and they saw millions of dollars, what they don't (and won't) see is the expenses. Just look at this sales report, just for Ubisoft:

http://www.4-traders.com/UBISO...12-results-13880955/ (http://www.4-traders.com/UBISOFT-ENTERTAIN-4719/news/UBISOFT-ENTERTAIN-%AE-Ubisoft%AE-reports-first-half-2011-12-results-13880955/)

Ubisoft is operating at a loss and still they're treating the customers as good as they can.

Take example on EA - they are called evil, bully, all that nasty things by people because EA told/seduced people to pay-up for extra content. They even have their own online pass. Yet they're able to maintain their financial status that they're able to create new games and improve old ones.

If game companies continue to bend under customers' will, I say that they're gonna go bankrupt.

So to this make simpler, will customers invest their dime to support their favorite company or see their favorite games stopped being developed?

Another solution that game companies can do is 'down-cutting' or minimizing - this has been applied many times before especially during the Great Recession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_losses_caused_by_the_late-2000s_recession) of the last couple of years ago (2007–2010); it involves factories and studios shutting down, workers were laid-off and products (such as games) being cancelled.

In short word, game companies are doing this to survive whether the customers like it or not.

And before someone said 'Get Creative!' then I say go work for game companies and experience what the business is like. If someone said, "Well, there's free games out there that has more awesome experience!", I'm gonna ask, "How long will the developer(s), both internal (the ones who originally created it) & external (the ones that continue to develop it) last before getting burned out without any funding or income?"



Originally posted by luckyto:

My thought is that you should make great games that people want Day One, and then produce solid DLC content to compensate for your losses on resale. Make a good product, market it truthfully and consumers will reward you over the long haul.

There are many AAA games out there that is a must-buy on Day One and they do have DLCs. It's not enough to cover cost. Game companies did try to market their games truthfully and even refund their customers if they screwed up.

The problem here is customer's abuse. They will just keep on complaining no matter what game companies do.

Unless they got the game for FREE.

EscoBlades
11-18-2011, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by jkellyg:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Gatti:
I explained how the server argument makes no sense. Also wrong assumption on the fast food.

It makes perfect sense. What....you think it costs nothing to run servers? And bear in mind that those who buy preowned copies of the game, and then take it online have contributed next to nothing towards the upkeep of those servers that they will use to play.

Publishers see hardly any money from the sale of a preowned game. So why not create the incentive to make people either buy the game new, or purchase an additional online pass. Either way, it makes perfect sense. You not liking it, is another matter. get over it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why be a punk about it? You act like ubi isn't a multimillion dollar company, if not billion. I'm sure they're not starving. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan for the company but I don't see the mods on here being rude. If they weren't making jack off these games then they wouldn't be able to drop the price in the months to come. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder why i bother with forums sometimes. Fine...completely ignore all i've said and tried to explain and continue to live in your fantasy land where games publishers don't try and run a business.

I give up.

Krayus Korianis
11-18-2011, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by zeejay21:
The problem here is customer's abuse. They will just keep on complaining no matter what game companies do.

Unless they got the game for FREE.

They'd still complain... You know that.

Krayus Korianis
11-18-2011, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Krayus_Korianis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...re-Bad-For-Everybody (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4568-Online-Passes-Are-Bad-For-Everybody)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...ave-A-Right-To-Exist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4720-Used-Games-Have-A-Right-To-Exist)
http://www.escapistmagazine.co...roblem-Of-Used-Games (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/4745-Fighting-The-Problem-Of-Used-Games)

Watch these and you might understand something about how used games aren't bad.

I just saw a fat man cry and whine and almost have a heart attack and possibly many mini-strokes throughout those videos... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still, he has a point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He actually had no points at all during his over excessive rant about pre-owned games.

Tr1p1taka
11-18-2011, 07:16 AM
Okay, so I realise that I'm adding to a thread that has intelligent, articulate and wise people contributing, but bear with me...

I bought the Collector's Edition for my son as a Christmas present. Yes, he's going to have to wait for months to get his hands on it. I wanted to check that the game ran OK, so I loaded it up on my PS3 and, yes, you guessed it, I redeemed the codes for extra multiplayer characters and locations on my User. I also set up a Uplay account and redeemed the code for that. Oh dear.

I have a game for my son that has little extra goodies on it... but he won't get them because it will only be on my name*. If he wants to use Multiplayer, he'll end up using my nickname, or I'll be forking out extra for another Uplay passport. There is currently discussion in my house about whether to buy another Collector's Edition, just to get the codes that will get him the smile on Christmas morning.

* The response from a Ubisoft Tech support rep contradicts that line that people keep quoting about DLC being available to all users of the console. He said;

Unfortunately the code for extra content in the game will work only on one account, so the content will not be available for other users.

luckyto
11-18-2011, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:

I wonder why i bother with forums sometimes. Fine...completely ignore all i've said and tried to explain and continue to live in your fantasy land where games publishers don't try and run a business.

I give up.

Don't give up. It's worthwhile to make a statement. Sometimes, it makes a difference; sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes, the people you sway are silent; and the ones who disagree are vocal. That is the nature of society. But don't give up, participate. The only sure-fire way to never hit a target is to never take a shot.

Blind2Society
11-18-2011, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by luckyto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EscoBlades:

I wonder why i bother with forums sometimes. Fine...completely ignore all i've said and tried to explain and continue to live in your fantasy land where games publishers don't try and run a business.

I give up.

Don't give up. It's worthwhile to make a statement. Sometimes, it makes a difference; sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes, the people you sway are silent; and the ones who disagree are vocal. That is the nature of society. But don't give up, participate. The only sure-fire way to never hit a target is to never take a shot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree with Esco's take on the matter but that was very well said and I agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

zeejay21
11-18-2011, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Tr1p1taka:
...

Have you mentioned this situation to the support line? Is it possible if they can give you another code for free if you requested that your current redeemed code be invalidated - making the 'already-redeemed-code' content (including Uplay points) unavailable only to YOUR account until you purchase another new code?

Or, if you want, you can just purchase the code for $10 rather than buying another Collector's edition. Mentioned this to your son that you have used the previous code to check if things are exactly what it was advertised.

Call it an extra 'gift'.

Try it.

Tr1p1taka
11-18-2011, 08:43 AM
Yes, I have already made that suggestion to Tech Support and am awaiting their response.

I got some content by redeeming a code that came with Collector's edition. I got some more by getting a Uplay Passport account. If I bought a second Uplay account, it would only give me some of the extras, not all.

My name is Mud at the moment. My wife said I had been an idiot for trying something that didn't need to be tried, but I was only trying to be helpful. Son knows, and he keeps giving me the "shaking my head in weary disbelief" look.

To be honest, I'm surprised there aren't more people complaining about this. Is mine the only household that has more than one Gamer per console?

zeejay21
11-18-2011, 08:56 AM
I'll try to speak with Ubisoft Support over at Twitter on behalf of you.

EscoBlades
11-18-2011, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Blind2Society:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luckyto:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EscoBlades:

I wonder why i bother with forums sometimes. Fine...completely ignore all i've said and tried to explain and continue to live in your fantasy land where games publishers don't try and run a business.

I give up.

Don't give up. It's worthwhile to make a statement. Sometimes, it makes a difference; sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes, the people you sway are silent; and the ones who disagree are vocal. That is the nature of society. But don't give up, participate. The only sure-fire way to never hit a target is to never take a shot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree with Esco's take on the matter but that was very well said and I agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And i respect that. At least you didn't call me a punk for trying to put forward a measured (i hope) counter point of view.

Blind2Society
11-18-2011, 09:06 AM
Of course not my friend. You're not a punk and I respect and appreciate everything you do for this community and others. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

zeejay21
11-18-2011, 09:10 AM
@ Tr1p1taka

I have already contacted Ubisoft Support via Twitter by mentioning your forum username and you may be contacted by the support soon.

Hopefully, things will get sorted out for you. Enjoy your happy holiday (well, upcoming happy holiday that is)!

luckyto
11-18-2011, 09:29 AM
Dude, you are DEFINITELY not a punk. Your posts are always thoughtful. It's very easy to take (or write) comments that can get taken out of context or come off as brash. I'm catch myself doing it. Cyberspace is just that way.

And in this case, you do have a point. Development is getting more and more expensive and more and more publishers are feeling the crunch. But I still think good DLC and honest advertising is the best way to go. At least, it's the right way to go. The surest way to destroy a company these days is for the consumer to feel misled or to cut game quality for fast turnaround. That's my point of view, and I think companies like Naughty Dogg and Rocksteady are doing that successfully.

Just my point of view, doesn't mean I don't respect the person on the other side of the fence.

Dizlol
11-18-2011, 09:59 AM
As a PC gamer i really don't know why people are upset about this, i have been dealing with key-codes (Because this is essentialy a keycode) all my gaming life well except for Warcraft 1 and Commander Keen games... anyways.

It really is not much of a hassle to use a code to get acces to Multiplayer anyways, if you have bought the game new there shouldn't be a downside for you anyways, this should not be viewed as DLC, this should be viewed as a non intrusive DRM, this doesn't punish anyone!

Where PC gaming is having Piracy to deal with, console gaming now has both Piracy and Reselling to deal with and this in my opinion is the best way to do it without punishing the paying customer.

Blind2Society
11-18-2011, 10:03 AM
It's not the need of a key it's having to pay for it separately. And yes I know I got it free with the game but that's not the point. It's the principle of the matter.

I still don't get why people keep bringing up used games and reselling. It shouldn't matter at all. You still need a disk (for console at least) to play and if you have a disk that means someone gave Ubisoft their $60. What does it matter to Ubi who is playing it. If someone new is playing it then the original owner isn't. Still the same number of people playing.

It's not like they copied the disk and gave it to someone else.

Anyway, my opinion on the matter has been well stated and it isn't going to change so I am going respectfully remove myself from this conversation. Cheers.

Tr1p1taka
11-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by zeejay21:
@ Tr1p1taka

I have already contacted Ubisoft Support via Twitter by mentioning your forum username and you may be contacted by the support soon.

Hopefully, things will get sorted out for you. Enjoy your happy holiday (well, upcoming happy holiday that is)!

That's very kind of you. I much appreciate it. This forum, this company and this game are all new to me. In fact, I'm beginning to feel hopelessly out of my depth amongst such articulate and knowledgable Gamers.

zeejay21
11-18-2011, 10:57 AM
Then welcome to the internet and welcome to Ubisoft's forum boards.

Please be forewarned that you may encounter 'unpleasant' discussions and behaviour at times from other forum residents while discussing in the forums. Please avoid them anywhere you can.

Other than that, Ubisoft® and it's fans are working constantly to improve the quality of games and services so it may benefit us all.

Thank you and enjoy your stay.

SolidSage
11-18-2011, 11:15 AM
The pass is an intelligent way to ensure that some production costs are recouped from lost sales due to preowned purchasers.

Nothing is more ridiculous than the player who hates the Production company and wants to hurt them by buying their product used. What sense does that make, how about don't play it?

I do understand buying used later on because of limited funds but doing it soley for the reason of 'protesting' against the company is devoid of reason.
If this method truly works and you somehow draw enough people to your cause that Ubi actually loses money and has to close it's doors, the games go away altogether.

What a wonderful 'lose lose' scenario that would be.

I approve of the business rationale behind the Pass. It's a method that, like anything, can and will be used in a unethical manner by some, but Ubi has continued to produce products that are worth the purchase price.

It's a business not a charity.

Serrachio
11-18-2011, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by SolidSage:
The pass is an intelligent way to ensure that some production costs are recouped from lost sales due to preowned purchasers.

Nothing is more ridiculous than the player who hates the Production company and wants to hurt them by buying their product used. What sense does that make, how about don't play it?

I do understand buying used later on because of limited funds but doing it soley for the reason of 'protesting' against the company is devoid of reason.
If this method truly works and you somehow draw enough people to your cause that Ubi actually loses money and has to close it's doors, the games go away altogether.

What a wonderful 'lose lose' scenario that would be.

I approve of the business rationale behind the Pass. It's a method that, like anything, can and will be used in a unethical manner by some, but Ubi has continued to produce products that are worth the purchase price.

It's a business not a charity.

In that case, publishers need to stop treating their customers like thieves then.

SolidSage
11-18-2011, 02:19 PM
@Serrachio
Well, I think it's the thieves that are causing the Publisher to take action to counter thievery.
It's unfortunate that the legitimate customer has to experience some negativity...and probably exagerates a bit out of being neurotic. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The Pass is free to the Ubi customer though, so in this instance I see no problem with it.

Silvrslide
11-18-2011, 04:31 PM
It's stupid. I can't let friends borrow my game without them being deprived of the multiplayer experience. I can't sell a game I OWN without the user being deprived of content, because they feel they need even more money than they get.

They need to find a better way, because this current one is god awful and punishes an unrelated market. Yo, how about for every used car bought, it's speed is capped at 50mph. That is basically what devs are doing.

The only possible outcome for them is sales lost with this type of ****. If we take this sitting down, where does it stop? Single player passes coming soon on used games.

Dizlol
11-18-2011, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:
The pass is an intelligent way to ensure that some production costs are recouped from lost sales due to preowned purchasers.

Nothing is more ridiculous than the player who hates the Production company and wants to hurt them by buying their product used. What sense does that make, how about don't play it?

I do understand buying used later on because of limited funds but doing it soley for the reason of 'protesting' against the company is devoid of reason.
If this method truly works and you somehow draw enough people to your cause that Ubi actually loses money and has to close it's doors, the games go away altogether.

What a wonderful 'lose lose' scenario that would be.

I approve of the business rationale behind the Pass. It's a method that, like anything, can and will be used in a unethical manner by some, but Ubi has continued to produce products that are worth the purchase price.

It's a business not a charity.

In that case, publishers need to stop treating their customers like thieves then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How is Ubisoft treating people like thieves?
They are giving the people who purchase the game new all the content, and people who buy used copies thus a lost sale, less content, but still a chance to buy a pass to make it count as a new copy for just 10 bucks!

Back when PC has the online only DRM you could make statements like that, but this is the way it is going to be, and honestly i love this solution

Newsflash, Ubisoft is trying to make money!

Silvrslide
11-18-2011, 08:38 PM
Newsflash: Ubisoft is making money. They just want MORE. And that is the problem with this generation.

zeejay21
11-19-2011, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by Silvrslide:
...

You can sell your used game with whatever price you want even if it's 10x the amount you originally bought - you just need to tell your friends that they needed to pay Ubisoft® $10 for online access, if they wanted to; if they don't want to, they can still enjoy single-player. If they paid for the code, they can buy the same game, used at cheaper or more expensive price, and they don't need to pay for online access since they already paid for it and has the code.

What better way? Please provide a solution. And using your logic in cars, it's no wonder why car markets suffered during the Great Recession, the manufacturers barely make anything because everyone is driving used cars. Great idea, let us all go cheap with cheap, no quality products!

Sales lost? Nope. Financial reports says otherwise, Ubisoft® reached and exceeds their sales target. No lost sales there.

Single player passes? There already is - even before Ubisoft® is created. It's called 'paying to get/play/use/eat it'. Heck, YOU yourself had created a single player pass when you sell it. Try to sell all your used games for free. If you like it, try to tell people to sell things for free.


And newsflash: Ubisoft® is operating at a loss. Know what that means? They're not making any profits AT ALL! Just enough to pay workers and investors. You should be appreciating that there's still companies like this that wanted it's fans to receive a very good experience eventhough they're financially suffering.

But, no, complaining is better way than appreciating. I wonder how you'll manage if someone doesn't appreciate but complains about you?

And that is the real problem with this generation - only knows how to complain, never try to appreciate or understand.

EmmaBemma
11-19-2011, 06:07 AM
I can understand why they do this for MPs but why on earth do some SP-only games do this now?

Silvrslide
11-19-2011, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by zeejay21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Silvrslide:
...

You can sell your used game with whatever price you want even if it's 10x the amount you originally bought - you just need to tell your friends that they needed to pay Ubisoft® $10 for online access, if they wanted to; if they don't want to, they can still enjoy single-player. If they paid for the code, they can buy the same game, used at cheaper or more expensive price, and they don't need to pay for online access since they already paid for it and has the code.

What better way? Please provide a solution. And using your logic in cars, it's no wonder why car markets suffered during the Great Recession, the manufacturers barely make anything because everyone is driving used cars. Great idea, let us all go cheap with cheap, no quality products!

Sales lost? Nope. Financial reports says otherwise, Ubisoft® reached and exceeds their sales target. No lost sales there.

Single player passes? There already is - even before Ubisoft® is created. It's called 'paying to get/play/use/eat it'. Heck, YOU yourself had created a single player pass when you sell it. Try to sell all your used games for free. If you like it, try to tell people to sell things for free.


And newsflash: Ubisoft® is operating at a loss. Know what that means? They're not making any profits AT ALL! Just enough to pay workers and investors. You should be appreciating that there's still companies like this that wanted it's fans to receive a very good experience eventhough they're financially suffering.

But, no, complaining is better way than appreciating. I wonder how you'll manage if someone doesn't appreciate but complains about you?

And that is the real problem with this generation - only knows how to complain, never try to appreciate or understand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I shouldn't have to tell them they have to fork out 10 bucks to play the full game. I bought the full product, and I should be able to sell it and let people borrow it.

Are you an idiot? There was no car reccesion, the only manufacturer that went in the **** recently was GM, and that was on them. Most people buy used cars, yet the motor industry is still striving. You're on some type of drug if you believe used sales **** with motor companies.

Your single player metaphor was idiotic so I'll let that one go. If you're selling a used game it isn't for free... Jesus christ rofl

Working at a loss =/= not making any profits, since that definitely isn't Ubisoft's case. Take an economic's class, bud.

You can call me a whiner, you can call me a complainer, but the only label you CAN call me is expressive. Me, and many other people are seeing the bull**** we are putting up with this gen. From the passes, to the unfinished games, finished with patches and DLC. Companies are getting LAZY, and ever more greedy. The problem with this generation is people like you, that isn't willing to step up and speak out because "ZOMG IT'S MY FAVORITE GAME I LOVE IT SO MUT IT CAN NEVER DO WRONG" With that mentality gaming and it's gamers are doomed. In reality with online passes, we buy 100% of the game. But if I sell it, 50% of the game is locked out. That isn't right, if I payed for it in full, the game should be in full when it's distributed second hand.

I'm a huge fan of this series and gaming in general. When Naughty Dog did it, I was fairly disappointed, especially when they gave their half *** justifications for it. Now this is going to be the norm, and the future is looking ever so bleak.

EDIT: And to mod's sorry about my language. This is the last time most likely.

zeejay21
11-19-2011, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Silvrslide:

...

They didn't block you from lending or selling back. What's so difficult in telling your friends about the online pass? Oh, silly question. You're just don't want to talk much while selling. I wonder if you ever lend a bought (with activation key-codes) PC game... nope, you're too smart for that.

Riiighhht, striving. So tell me why people are buying used cars again? I'm just dying to know!

Correct. So why do you complained about single player passes? Why do you need to sell back your games? If people won't pay, you won't give. I don't need to explain more since you're so intelligent.

lol I love to see you having a business of your own. Again, no explanation needed - you can figure out how to run a business. You don't need advices, tips or read books either.

LMAO!!!! Develop and sell a game then. Not used ones, not as a retailer - your own original game, as a publisher, a developer & a seller. Make it into a retail version, not digital.

Since you're expressive enough to debate on how game companies would work, I'm looking forward for your game company! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Silvrslide
11-19-2011, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by zeejay21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Silvrslide:

...

They didn't block you from lending or selling back. I wonder if you ever lend a bought (with activation key-codes) PC game... nope, guess not.

Riiighhht, striving. So tell me why people are buying used cars again?

Correct. So why do you complained about single player passes? Why do you need to sell back your games? If people won't pay, you won't give. I don't need to explain more since you're so intelligent.

lol I love to see you having a business of your own. Again, no explanation needed - you can figure out how to run a business. You don't need advices, tips or read books either.

LMAO!!!! Develop and sell a game then. Not used ones, not as a retailer - your own original game, as a publisher, a developer & a seller. Make it into a retail version, not digital.

Since you're expressive enough to debate on how game companies would work, I'm looking forward for your game company! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, so you are dumb? People buy used cars for the same reason as used games: a cheaper alternative. But someone HAD to have bought that car for it to be sold again second hand. They still get their money, and are satisfied with it. But you don't see Ford putting MPH caps on cars that are sold used. It's idiotic and comes off as greedy.

Because it's STUPID and GREEDY. I swear I've said that a couple times here, wow. Single player passes are dumb, that plus an online pass would completely make used games useless, which isn't right. You should sell your product once and be fine with that, not sell it, and make people pay to activate it later on if they bought it from someone else. I could do without you're illogical explanations though, since I would like to keep my brain cells.

Um, no because I actually DO know how to run a business, I've been working in my family business since I could walk so to speak and have taken economic classes in College. That's the difference here, one of us know what we're talking about, and it isn't you.

This isn't a debate though lol If this was, my opponent would be able to hold his ground without getting salty and using emotes.

zeejay21
11-19-2011, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Silvrslide:
...

Explain how it's greedy (caps).

So people selling is stupid & greedy. Yet you also sell. Your rule doesn't apply to you it seems.

What business do you run? And why not envision, develop and sell games? Your insight is, as you already known, useful for games.

So arguing on a topic in order to find a conclusion isn't a debate. So what is it called?

Elcoggins
11-19-2011, 10:40 AM
Im sorry but even i have to interject here.

Multiplayer passes/ codes have been around for years. PC gamers have had to use them for almost as long as i can remember. Console games showing the same initiative now just shows that they are having to put up with the same piracy that PC contributors have had to put up with for years.

The used car analogy is pointless. Sure getting a used car is a cheaper alternative but you don't get everything from it that you would a new car. For one thing it is more likely to break down and will not meet the same performance as brand new. You get what you pay for

And since when has making a loss meant that they could be making a profit. I'm an accounting student so don't try and patronise me, but if they use all the correct accounting methods and they are reflected in the accounts then they are not making a profit pure and simple, though gaining cash is an entirely different thing as you can physically make a loss and still gain cash.

Also to present about the argument about cant afford the new games when they are out so you are missing out on stuff by buying used games. Seriously i have bought pre-owned games before, you dont expect to have everything with it. Game contents should go back to the way they were before. When games concentrated more on the single player than the multiplayer, the multiplayer is an extra pure and simple.

As a final note single player passes wont come in, when you buy the game, you buy your entitlement to play the story. Buying the game itself covers the costs for the single player whilst to keep the servers up will continue to cost

Silvrslide
11-19-2011, 12:17 PM
"Multiplayer passes/ codes have been around for years. PC gamers have had to use them for almost as long as i can remember. Console games showing the same initiative now just shows that they are having to put up with the same piracy that PC contributors have had to put up with for years."

This isn't an issue of piracy though, it is obviously an issue for used games in this case.

"The used car analogy is pointless. Sure getting a used car is a cheaper alternative but you don't get everything from it that you would a new car. For one thing it is more likely to break down and will not meet the same performance as brand new. You get what you pay for"

Getting what you paid for is the entire point of buying used games AND cars. How exactly is the analogy pointless? Being likely to "breakdown and not meet the same performance as new" parallels used games perfectly.

"And since when has making a loss meant that they could be making a profit. I'm an accounting student so don't try and patronise me, but if they use all the correct accounting methods and they are reflected in the accounts then they are not making a profit pure and simple, though gaining cash is an entirely different thing as you can physically make a loss and still gain cash."

You answered yourself.

"Also to present about the argument about cant afford the new games when they are out so you are missing out on stuff by buying used games. Seriously i have bought pre-owned games before, you dont expect to have everything with it. Game contents should go back to the way they were before. When games concentrated more on the single player than the multiplayer, the multiplayer is an extra pure and simple."

Yes but the things you expect to be missing are like manuals and case covers. Not 50% of the game. I agree with your last part though, gaming back in the day never had this problem. You never heard any old school developers whining about used game sales either. That tells me something.

"As a final note single player passes wont come in, when you buy the game, you buy your entitlement to play the story. Buying the game itself covers the costs for the single player whilst to keep the servers up will continue to cost"

In the same merit, buying the game gives me entitlement to play ALL of the content stored on it, including multiplayer. Used or new, I shouldn't have to put more money down.

The servers aren't that breathtakingly expensive to run as developers make it seem though. If the servers were DEDICATED then it would make sense, but most aren't.

Also, excuse me for the quotations method. Not sure how to quote and post in between paragraphs on this forum.

AssassinVulpy
11-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by EscoBlades:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blind2Society:

Esco, you're trying to tell me the Ubi devs were starving after ACB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Hardly. But let's look at some facts.

Development costs on a franchise like AC are astronomical (especially when you have 6 Ubi studios involved). If you need Ubi's latest figures, you can view my posts on them here! (http://www.xboxgamezone.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubisoft-reports-first-half-2011-12-results/)

Once you've read between the lines, and you realise that:

a) Devs aren't rockstars and make very little in return for crunch, long hours and a ton of hard work
b) Server maintenance is extremely expensive contrary to popular belief
c) publishers see next to no money from the sale of used games.

you begin to understand the reasoning behind the Online Pass...which is effectively a "sunk cost" for the player. or would you rather new games start costing $70 or more? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have you ever considered the people that can't always buy games new? Have you seen how much new games cost now? Not everyone has £50 to spare, employed or not. Seriously, I'm not gonna spend £50 every time a new game (That I like) comes out, just to play online. If I had the choice of spending £50 on food or a game, I'd choose food. :P

I think the online pass thing was a mistake. I bet some people might boycott it and not let Ubisoft make all of the money they want out of it. They don't need to make millions and billions at this point anyway. ACB wasn't a flop, AC II wasn't a flop, and I don't think AC 1 was a flop either. If you count all of the DLCs, special editions, extra merchandise for them, Ubisoft are already making tons of money. They didn't need to add the online pass thing.

Dizlol
11-19-2011, 07:45 PM
That's just a part of life... you can't have everything you want.

Who is being greedy? the company who keeps making really great entertainment expierences for you? or the guy who buys a game second hand thus not paying the people who take theyre time to research an entire culture history make art write code PR people, and many many more people so they can keep paying theyre bills and feed theyre families, so they can continiue doing what they love?

Why do people feel entitled to everything, i have a budget of 30 euros per month as a student after paying every bill, and still i manage to buy the Animus Edition of this game + a pre-order for Diablo 3 and just bought MW3 this month...

Silvrslide
11-19-2011, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by JerfyNL:
Who is being greedy? the company who keeps making really great entertainment expierences for you? or the guy who buys a game second hand thus not paying the people who take theyre time to research an entire culture history make art write code PR people, and many many more people so they can keep paying theyre bills and feed theyre families, so they can continiue doing what they love?

*sigh* the company that previously, cut out content from the game to release it as DLC, the company that is making you pay 10 bucks to fully experience a game that has already been bought and paid for, and the company that literally released like 10 editions of the same game.

love assassin's creed, but it's biggest fans are allowed to be it's harshest critics

zeejay21
11-20-2011, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by Silvrslide:
...

Quit your yapping!

You do not make any sense so far, all your facts are wrong and twisted and to be honest, you only want to exploit your 'bought' games so you can swindled your customers.

To you, every game company (and other companies at that) is evil and while you, the little innocent victim gamer/customer, pretended you're some kind of hero going against these companies.

Games companies always find a way to produce must-buy games and always find a way to keep themselves from being bankrupt. If you don't want to buy the games, no loss to the game companies and too bad for you.

Any post from you after this, I'll treat it as nonsense.