PDA

View Full Version : Are Clay and Darim related?



Xenoxin
12-02-2011, 05:51 AM
I was reading through the forums here yesterday and at some point I came across the topic where Alta´rs reflection at the library/vault was discussed. So I watched it again on Youtube and while I was watching I noticed that Darim and Clay/Subject 16 pretty much look the same. I searched the forums here and couldn't find anything about it. After some googling I ended up at some XBOX forum where someone noticed the same. The following picture was posted there:

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg57/daishichi/DarimSubject16.png

Is there any chance they're related somehow or is it just a coincidence?

Assassin_M
12-02-2011, 05:55 AM
There is a resemblance, just not that much.. hmmmm

What is Ubisoft preparing for us ?

Another mind-rape I reckon..

Serrachio
12-02-2011, 06:08 AM
While the resemblance is quite uncanny, Clay (Subject 16) only ever linked up to Desmond's genetics through Ezio.

wolves_smurf
12-02-2011, 06:09 AM
Subject 16 was related to Ezio and abstergo used ezio's memories to try and find the grand temple but 16 died, they then used desmond to look at altairs memories because they know that he definitely had contact with the apple and knew the locations of more, so if 16 is related to altair and darim why didn't they just use altairs memories, either abstergo didn't know about this until after subject 16 died or maybe ubisoft are just being lazy and using the same face on two different characters.

Serrachio
12-02-2011, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by wolves_smurf:
Subject 16 was related to Ezio and abstergo used ezio's memories to try and find the grand temple but 16 died, they then used desmond to look at altairs memories because they know that he definitely had contact with the apple and knew the locations of more, so if 16 is related to altair and darim why didn't they just use altairs memories, either abstergo didn't know about this until after subject 16 died or maybe ubisoft are just being lazy and using the same face on two different characters.

If Clay was a descendant of Altair, when Lucy placed Desmond in the Animus at the start of AC2, it would show that Altair was their closest genetic match between the two.

Since Ezio appeared, that couldn't be true.

Then again, if closest meant in terms of time, that may be disproved, but that theory wouldn't be possible because then Clay could have given Abstergo Altair's memories.

Assassin_M
12-02-2011, 06:19 AM
Altair and Clay are not related..
and the closest match IS indeed in terms of time..
alot of proof to disprove that Altair and clay were related..

(I find it hard calling him Clay, sometimes i reread what I wrote and say to myself "who the hell is Clay ?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Serrachio
12-02-2011, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Altair and Clay are not related..
and the closest match IS indeed in terms of time..
alot of proof to disprove that Altair and clay were related..

(I find it hard calling him Clay, sometimes i reread what I wrote and say to myself "who the hell is Clay ?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Yeah, they revealed somewhere that 16's name was Clay Kaczmarek.

Assassin_M
12-02-2011, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Altair and Clay are not related..
and the closest match IS indeed in terms of time..
alot of proof to disprove that Altair and clay were related..

(I find it hard calling him Clay, sometimes i reread what I wrote and say to myself "who the hell is Clay ?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Yeah, they revealed somewhere that 16's name was Clay Kaczmarek. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the Encyclopedia..
They could`v done it in the game though, because I cant pronounce his surname, Its Polish..

Grandmaster_Z
12-02-2011, 06:38 AM
they do look alike

Assassin_M
12-02-2011, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Grandmaster_Z:
they do look alike
Did you find that out by yourself ?

Abeonis
12-02-2011, 06:55 AM
Actually, nothing has been said to confirm Clay and Altair are not related. All that is said at the beginning at ACII is that Ezio is an ancestor Clay and Desmond share, nothing more, nothing less.

The fact that Darim and Clay look practically the same is further evidence to support a genetic relationship; I highly doubt Ubioft decided to use the same facial animations simply to save a bit of cash...

kudos17
12-02-2011, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by Assassin_M:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Assassin_M:
Altair and Clay are not related..
and the closest match IS indeed in terms of time..
alot of proof to disprove that Altair and clay were related..

(I find it hard calling him Clay, sometimes i reread what I wrote and say to myself "who the hell is Clay ?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Yeah, they revealed somewhere that 16's name was Clay Kaczmarek. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the Encyclopedia..
They could`v done it in the game though, because I cant pronounce his surname, Its Polish.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's pronounced "katch-mahr-ik" I believe. Though I bet a lot of people, American-English speakers especially, pronounce it "Kaz-mar-ek" :P (I'm no exception, that's how I'd have said it had I not been familiar with the surname).

Also, I remember that "Kaczmarek" is the modern version of some other Polish surname which stemmed from "barkeeper", or some such thing. Funny, considering what Desmond's previous occupation was...

Serrachio
12-02-2011, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
Actually, nothing has been said to confirm Clay and Altair are not related. All that is said at the beginning at ACII is that Ezio is an ancestor Clay and Desmond share, nothing more, nothing less.

The fact that Darim and Clay look practically the same is further evidence to support a genetic relationship; I highly doubt Ubioft decided to use the same facial animations simply to save a bit of cash...

While that might be possible, if Abstergo could get both Ezio and Altair's memories from Clay, why would they capture Desmond and make him relive through Altair's memories?

And while it also may be possible that their appearance is similar through genetics, it would be quite odd if it made its way down through the bloodline a whole 800 or so years.

itsamea-mario
12-02-2011, 07:16 AM
Just because they look similar doesn't mean they're related.
Desmond doesn't look at all like Altair, not anymore atleast.

Serrachio
12-02-2011, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
Just because they look similar doesn't mean they're related.
Desmond doesn't look at all like Altair, not anymore atleast.

...But Desmond and Altair are related.

Abeonis
12-02-2011, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
Actually, nothing has been said to confirm Clay and Altair are not related. All that is said at the beginning at ACII is that Ezio is an ancestor Clay and Desmond share, nothing more, nothing less.

The fact that Darim and Clay look practically the same is further evidence to support a genetic relationship; I highly doubt Ubioft decided to use the same facial animations simply to save a bit of cash...

While that might be possible, if Abstergo could get both Ezio and Altair's memories from Clay, why would they capture Desmond and make him relive through Altair's memories?

And while it also may be possible that their appearance is similar through genetics, it would be quite odd if it made its way down through the bloodline a whole 800 or so years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whose to say they didn't try and use Clay to locate the Apple map. He did kill himself afterall, so it's possible he did so before they were able to access the map.

As for your second point, whilst I agree with you completely, the fact remains that this is a video game, and such things might be considered artistic licence. If Ubisoft conciously made the choice to have Darim and Clay look the same, there was a reason for it.

itsamea-mario
12-02-2011, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
Just because they look similar doesn't mean they're related.
Desmond doesn't look at all like Altair, not anymore atleast.

...But Desmond and Altair are related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the point I'm making..

Krayus Korianis
12-02-2011, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
Just because they look similar doesn't mean they're related.
Desmond doesn't look at all like Altair, not anymore atleast.

...But Desmond and Altair are related. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the point I'm making.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alta´r does look like Desmond if Desmond was a bit younger with the new facial graphics. But either way, this entire discussion is speculation lol.

Sarari
12-08-2011, 06:05 PM
I think the graphics of AC2 was very cartoonish and very undetailed. Sort of clayish http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That was sort of a downfall for me in AC2.

creedalien
12-09-2011, 12:54 PM
its easy, ubisoft used the SAME MODEL for saving developing time, thats all.

LightRey
12-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by creedalien:
its easy, ubisoft used the SAME MODEL for saving developing time, thats all.
I don't see Clay and Darim being similar enough for them to have used the same model. Generally in AC the characters are modeled after their voice actors.

SweetsMachineGun
12-09-2011, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by creedalien:
its easy, ubisoft used the SAME MODEL for saving developing time, thats all.
I don't see Clay and Darim being similar enough for them to have used the same model. Generally in AC the characters are modeled after their voice actors. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new face-scanning technology allows morphing between two voice actor's faces. That's probably what they did with Darim's-- is take Sixteen's original model and morph it with another actor's features. Still looks super similar though.

Will_Lucky
12-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Comparing Darim in the last memory to Clay is an even more uncanny resemblance.

I always assumed that Ezio was the last ancestor they tried to put him through before he killed himself. Abstergo knew of him, but if they knew of the vault I imagine that would have changed a lot. Not to mention they would have known the location of the Apple in Rome. So obviously they never made it that far.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Codex in Ezios memories that pointed them towards Altair.

itsamea-mario
12-09-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm pretty sure I look nothing like my medieval ancestors.

dxsxhxcx
12-09-2011, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by creedalien:
its easy, ubisoft used the SAME MODEL for saving developing time, thats all.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case, look at the guards, they all look the same..

LightRey
12-09-2011, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by creedalien:
its easy, ubisoft used the SAME MODEL for saving developing time, thats all.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case, look at the guards, they all look the same.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That only goes for generic NPC's and it's the case in all games.

dxsxhxcx
12-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dxsxhxcx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by creedalien:
its easy, ubisoft used the SAME MODEL for saving developing time, thats all.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case, look at the guards, they all look the same.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That only goes for generic NPC's and it's the case in all games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AC1/2/B had a little variety in the guards faces, in ACR they all look the same, this is something that bothered me a little in ACR, it seems that I'm killing the same person during the entire game... :P