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View Full Version : Der Rote Baron - English Trailer Released



HuninMunin
03-07-2008, 04:29 AM
Official Website (http://www.redbaron-themovie.com/)

Looks nice to my eyes ( well... beggars can't be choosers situation anyway for us geeks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )...

Yes there will be a woman and all that - but folks that have seen test screenings reported that the lovestory is nowhere near Pearl Harbor or not even Flyboys level.

Mercanario
03-07-2008, 05:24 AM
nice lookin` lady... but... is the Barons triplane porked?

Schwarz.13
03-07-2008, 05:32 AM
Great!

I wonder, how long before it hits indepenent cinemas in the UK?

Bewolf
03-07-2008, 05:50 AM
my political correctness sensors start to tingle here. Manfred von Richthofen was great fighter pilot. But he also was a men of his time. And his quote in the movie "we shoot down allied aircraft, not men" makes me twitch. The right thing to say nowadays. Back then, it was not.

HuninMunin
03-07-2008, 06:15 AM
I think the statement sums up rather nicely what the real Richthofen felt at a certain time.
He managed to avoid any direct confrontation with the destruction he caused until a certain event.
It is partly correct that he saw himself as a hunter ( or sportsman ) rather then a warrior; that changed drastically with the dawning numerical superiority the Allied gained in the later years.

I suspect that the movie will play with the guilt factor and spare out that Richthofen was as much a butcher later on as f.e. Mannock.

I recommend the book "Der Rote Baron" by Joachim Castan, wich is in my view the best ( if not only ) good portrait of Richthofen.
It is the only lecture I came across wich does not at all build on the legend or stupid questions like "who shot him down" but criticaly approaches the real person.
A must read, in my opinion.

PBNA-Boosher
03-07-2008, 06:48 AM
I'm not so sure HuninMunin. After reading his journal, which may have some errors in translation, it seemed that most of the time he was just shooting down planes, not men, but there were times when he did go for the pilot. He expresses frustration at artillery spotting planes. Although he often expresses remorse for killing someone, he is sometimes rather cold.

HuninMunin
03-07-2008, 07:29 AM
It's not only the translation that makes the journal almost useless as a historical record; the journal itself was written and published for propaganda purposes and over the years, it has been doubted more and more that Richthofen himself is the actual author.

Either way, I did not intend to awoke the impression that Richthofen was a noble fighter.
Noone was back then and Richthofen lost all the nobility he carried with him during the long months of fighting an evergrowing opposition.
Strafing runs on infantry were normal in 1918 were they were rejected in earlier days.

But in the context of early 1917, during the birth of Jasta 11, the sentence from the trailer
is a stylized expression of the attitude.

He was a cold blooded killer for sure - far more then the legend portrays, but he did not start out as one.

After you have brought down 40 + other men, mostly killing them in the process, you have become either boarder-psychopatic or cold blooded.

BillyTheKid_22
03-07-2008, 07:33 AM
Great NICE!!

Haigotron
03-07-2008, 09:10 AM
Great! except that one part where he throws the wreath in the grave as he's flying over...unless that happened in real life...which i doubt

DKoor
03-07-2008, 09:33 AM
Very nice.

berg417448
03-07-2008, 10:20 AM
Those who go to the movie expecting historical accuracy may find them selves a bit disappointed. A quote from Muellerschoen:

"A meticulous reconstruction of the Baron's life and the historical setting was not uppermost in mind, that didn't interest me so much," he stresses. "It is more important to see what is relevant for people today. I saw no sense in making the film like a well-researched documentary. However, during my preparation on the film and looking into the story of his life, the man seems to be more like how I thought he should be."

http://www.german-cinema.de/app/filmarchive/film_view.php?film_id=1542

I will go see it. No way it could be worse than Pearl Harbor!

Luke5skywalker4
03-07-2008, 11:29 AM
Argh, I wish it was done in Native German rather than dubbing it to German. Kind of ruins the authenticity/realism when you see actors talking in plain English (while keeping their original accents) or pretending to have a another language's accent .

leitmotiv
03-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Von Richthofen was translated as saying that air combat was "killing" and "all else was nonsense." His favorite shot was a kill shot into the pilot's station from below. He wasn't on a crusade to kill for revenge like Mannock; he was a consummate hunter. Neither was he a stunt pilot like his friend Voss. He considered the air war sport until a bullet cracked him on the head and put him out of action for months. Then it became duty. He was probably a burn-out case when he was killed. The old vR would not have chased an opponent over enemy lines at low altitude where he was clipped by an Australian soldier.

HuninMunin
03-07-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Von Richthofen was translated as saying that air combat was "killing" and "all else was nonsense." His favorite shot was a kill shot into the pilot's station from below.

Never heard anything about both things.
Might be the translation...

Shooting from below does not really make sense in the WW1 enviourment, for two reasons:
1.) Richthofen preached to always stay above the enemy, wich is why the thing he loved about the Dr 1 was not it's outstanding turnrate, but the fact it climbed better then any other airplane of it's time.
2.) If he was going for the pilot the best position to shoot would be from high 6; from there both the pilot and engine are easy to hit.
Shooting from below makes the least sense to hit the pilot; he is more exposed from any other angle.

MB_Avro_UK
03-07-2008, 01:47 PM
Hi Hunin,

Thanks for posting the link http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

It's always difficult to judge a film from a trailer but it looks to be far better than FlyBoys!! And the CGI is an improvement.

A girlfriend is inevitable in modern films to help make it a financial success.

There will of course be 'liberties' taken with regard to historical facts for the same reason.

But if the film as a result awakens public interest in WW1 aviation so much the better.

We here are 'aviation junkies' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

leitmotiv
03-07-2008, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Von Richthofen was translated as saying that air combat was "killing" and "all else was nonsense." His favorite shot was a kill shot into the pilot's station from below.

Never heard anything about both things.
Might be the translation...

Shooting from below does not really make sense in the WW1 enviourment, for two reasons:
1.) Richthofen preached to always stay above the enemy, wich is why the thing he loved about the Dr 1 was not it's outstanding turnrate, but the fact it climbed better then any other airplane of it's time.
2.) If he was going for the pilot the best position to shoot would be from high 6; from there both the pilot and engine are easy to hit.
Shooting from below makes the least sense to hit the pilot; he is more exposed from any other angle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

His favorite method of attack was to dive on the quarry and hit them vertically from beneath---obviously the target was unaware of his impending death. This is well known and in all his biographies. As for the quote, it is commonly known, but that doesn't mean it is correct, but it certainly expresses his no nonsense attitude to air fighting---the exact opposite of the mixer-uppers Udet and Voss.

Xiolablu3
03-07-2008, 04:31 PM
Looks pretty good, at least it cant be any worse than Flyboys.

zardozid
03-08-2008, 04:23 AM
I don't care if their is romance in the movie...I don't care if they show his childhood or family life...as far as I'm concerned they can put anything they want in their just as long as its a good movie. Anything that helps us care about the characters will make the action just that much better...I have seen movies that where nothing but big budget CGI action from start to finish that sucked. And I have also seen low budget movies filled with interesting characters that I loved...

That said, as I think someone else has already pointed out, you can never tell from the trailer if a movie is going to be good...you CAN sometimes smell a stinker from the trailer, but you can never tell if it will be good. With the "Red Baron" trailer its hard to tell if they crammed all the best stuff in their with nothing left-over for the film (LOL)...

I can say this, the trailer doesn't smell too desperate (who knows it could be ok).

crucislancer
03-08-2008, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Luke5skywalker4:
Argh, I wish it was done in Native German rather than dubbing it to German. Kind of ruins the authenticity/realism when you see actors talking in plain English (while keeping their original accents) or pretending to have a another language's accent .

When I saw the trailer I was surprised to see that it was in English. I also would have prefered German with English subtitles, with the only English being spoken from the Allied.

I can't wait to see it, though. I expect it will be much better then Flyboys.

Any other military aviation films in the works? I heard some rumor about a remake of "Dambusters", and George Lucas said that he wants to work on a Tuskegee Airmen movie with the title "Redtails". Not sure when that's happening, though.

JG53Frankyboy
03-08-2008, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luke5skywalker4:
Argh, I wish it was done in Native German rather than dubbing it to German. Kind of ruins the authenticity/realism when you see actors talking in plain English (while keeping their original accents) or pretending to have a another language's accent .

When I saw the trailer I was surprised to see that it was in English. I also would have prefered German with English subtitles, with the only English being spoken from the Allied.

I can't wait to see it, though. I expect it will be much better then Flyboys.

Any other military aviation films in the works? I heard some rumor about a remake of "Dambusters", and George Lucas said that he wants to work on a Tuskegee Airmen movie with the title "Redtails". Not sure when that's happening, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the film was made in english AFAIK..............

and about flyboys, i fall asleep http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Stiletto-
03-08-2008, 10:55 AM
Looks okay, but I'd much rather fly it than watch it! All it did was make me more ancy for Knights of the Sky...

rileyjams
03-08-2008, 11:37 AM
Hot nurses and Airplanes, can't get much better than that

JTFM
03-08-2008, 12:17 PM
A few random comments that popped into my head after reading this thread:

I often read of a "cold-blooded killer" in war. What's a warm-blooded killer? Is there a difference (if any) to those killed, or aren't they just as dead?

People say MvR was "cold blooded" because he shot down "helpless" two-seaters. I've read hundreds of combat reports and in none of them did the surviving crews of vanquished two-seaters opine "Gee, we never imagined we'd be shot at by the
enemy--how unfair!" Nope. Instead, they camouflaged their airplanes and armed them with machine guns and at times escorted them with fighters and had predetermined evasive tactics because they knew it was coming. Two-seaters were the satellites of their day--they were top of the target priority list.

One must remember that MvR sought to shoot down two-seaters--that was his "job," as it were. Attacking a two-seater from high six just invited catastrophe from the gunner's return fire. A BE2 or FE2 or RE8 was not armored--shoot them
from below and the bullets are going to tear right through wood and fabric. MvR's first victory (an FE2) was attained in this manner: he shot it from below where he was out of the gunner's field of fire and subsequently shot up the FE2's engine, killed the gunner and fatally wounded the pilot. That's the name of the game--kill them without being killed yourself. MvR would dive to attack, only if he had advantage of sun behind him (i.e., his opponents never saw him coming), but normally he preferred (and wrote to this effect in his Air Combat Operations Manual) to attack from behind and first aim for the gunner in order to kill or incapacitate him. The common sense of this methodology is undeniable.

Strafing was not rejected in MvR's early days--he describes bombing and strafing Russian cavalry with his Albatros C.III (which in addition to the observer's flexible Parabellum MG 14 had a fixed Maxim lMG 08/15 synchronised to fire through the propeller arc) "from the lowest possible altitude" in the summer of 1916. That's almost midway through the war, but only a few months after MvR's active piloting duties began (licensed Christmas 1915, began flying for K8/KG2 March 1916.)
Indeed, he continued strafing throughout 1918 (Udet described one such event while flying with MvR) and revealed he would have liked to have been an artillery flyer if not a fighter pilot.

I disagree MvR was burned out when he died; at least not as a consequence of his wound. Contrarily, he was back at the top of his game. Certainly, throughout summer 1917 he needed convalescing and was suffering from his head wound, (which IMO is when he penned his melancholy "Thoughts in a Dugout") but he had so much leave (almost all of September and October and half of December 1917, and all of January 1918) that by late winter/early spring 1918 he was on a victory pace that he hadn't known since April 1917. Despite the bad weather in March/April 1918, he shot down 17 planes during these months, (1 F2B, 2 SE5as, 2 RE8s, 2 AWFK8s, 1 Dolphin, and 9 Camels). Also, 21 April was not the first time MvR chased opponents and/or fought across the lines.

The movie should be okay in some regards, but expect some truth-stretching--like Roy Brown shooting him down. That bit when he's hunting as a boy and imitating the plane he sees flying by; please. MvR had no real passion for flying like that. MvR was a cavalryman. He didn't even consider becoming a pilot until mired for months in the trenches before Verdun, and even then he chose to become an observer, not a pilot, which he did.

Anyway, fascinating man and story. I know the movie isn't going to be 100% accurate but I'm sure I'll find enough to make me happy.