PDA

View Full Version : True story? Tornado incident on police radar....



stef51
11-08-2007, 08:49 AM
Got this email from a friend. I'm pretty sure some of you knows if this true....

Stephen
---------------------------------------------------
Two British traffic patrol officers from North Berwick were involved in an unusual incident while checking for speeding motorists on the A1 Great North Road. One of the officers used a hand-held radar device to check the speed of a vehicle approaching over the crest of a hill, and was surprised when the speed was recorded at over 300 mph. Their radar suddenly stopped working and the officers were not able to reset it.

Just then a deafening roar over the treetops revealed that the radar had in fact latched on to a NATO Tornado fighter jet which was engaged in a low-flying exercise over the Border district, approaching from the North Sea.

Back at police headquarters the chief constable fired off a stiff complaint to the RAF Liaison office.

Back came the reply in true laconic RAF style:

"Thank you for your message, which allows us to complete the file on this incident. You may be interested to know that the tactical computer in the Tornado had detected the presence of, and subsequently locked onto, your hostile radar equipment and automatically sent a jamming signal back to it.
Furthermore, an air-to-ground missile aboard the fully-armed aircraft had also automatically locked onto your equipment. Fortunately the pilot flying the Tornado recognized the situation for what it was, quickly responded to the missile systems alert status, and was able to override the automated defence system before the missile was launched and your hostile radar installation was destroyed.

Good Day..."

RegRag1977
11-08-2007, 08:52 AM
Incredible! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

berg417448
11-08-2007, 09:00 AM
Sounds like an internet urban legend story to me.

MEGILE
11-08-2007, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by berg417448:
Sounds like an internet urban legend story to me.

Ditto.

Auto firing missiles? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

ploughman
11-08-2007, 09:05 AM
How alarming. I'm so glad nobody was harmed.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

jarink
11-08-2007, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by stef51:
...the radar had in fact latched on to a NATO Tornado fighter jet...

Urban legend. Police radar needs to be pointed directly at it's intended target to work. In fact, the tighter the beam, the better (to avoid giving a ticket to the wrong driver).

berg417448
11-08-2007, 09:09 AM
Very similar version here:

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/radar.asp

M4Sherman4
11-08-2007, 09:10 AM
sound like A case for mythbsters

Divine-Wind
11-08-2007, 09:13 AM
Sounds unlikely, but it's still funny.

Originally posted by stef51:
Fortunately the pilot flying the Tornado recognized the situation for what it was, quickly responded to the missile systems alert status, and was able to override the automated defence system before the missile was launched and your hostile radar installation was destroyed.

Good Day..."
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BBB_Hyperion
11-08-2007, 09:15 AM
Which frequency should this handheld device have ?

Automatic defense System isn't new, automatic offense i doubt.

scaredycat1
11-08-2007, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
How alarming. I'm so glad nobody was harmed.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif



LOL!!! good one!

rnzoli
11-08-2007, 09:31 AM
Created in the dreams of someone who just got a speeding ticket. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

stalkervision
11-08-2007, 09:42 AM
Police radar is very difficult to jam. I doubt even a tornado system could do it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This is partially because of the old and cheap method it uses to aquire speed. Many have tried though. It is also illegal to jam it. Now jamming LIDAR guns is perfectly legal though and many systems work very well.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

stef51
11-08-2007, 10:35 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I appreciate your expertise in this matter... Now I have some "bad news" to send back to my friend... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Many thanks!

Stephen

Bremspropeller
11-08-2007, 10:50 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

I'm wavin the bullsh1t-flag on that one.

stalkervision
11-08-2007, 10:50 AM
Yup, I beieve i am the "resident police radar expert" here.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Billy_BigBoy
11-08-2007, 11:11 AM
Reminds me of that other legend:
Penguins tipped over by bored harrier pilots during the Falkland war.

So not true http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

rnzoli
11-08-2007, 11:26 AM
I have heard a story about a military fighter pilot in the UK, whose mobile phone was automatically blocked for outgoing calls some years ago. The early mobile phones and sim cards were easier to hack, so cellular network operators installed (and still maintain) fraud management systems, which do sanity checks on mobile phone usage. The pilots' phone was blocked because the anti-fraud software could not believe how he could possibly be somewhere in the north, and shortly after, initiate calls from the south. Could have been an interesting discussion with the service desk agents afterwards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

smokincrater
11-08-2007, 06:23 PM
Yes I heard that one some years ago. This involing the RAAF and the local constablery form Newcastle. Though I don`t doubt that somewhere, some how it did happen.

Taylortony
11-08-2007, 07:00 PM
Believe it or not and this IS TRUE there are speed traps used in the UK for low flying fast moving RAF jets........ THAT IS A FACT


Another one which happened at Lossiemouth is a Police speed trap in the middle of nowhere in Scotland picked up a speeding car at 100 MPH, they heard a car go past but saw nothing in the dark, they gave chase and eventually pulled a car over on a twisty Scottish road at night in an unlit area with NO LIGHTS ON, turned out it was 2 RAF crew trying out their new helmet mounted night vision scopes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Another I no happened was a Jag Pilot on his last flight went up high and like the signwriters of old drew in the sky, not a farewell message, but a big **** and a set of balls that hung over a certain town for many an hour http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif...

Another at Colt on his last ever flight landed on the taxiway between the hangars and the tower, he had to literally leap over a police car that pulled out in front of him......was off the station in under 12 hours http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Taylortony
11-08-2007, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Billy_BigBoy:
Reminds me of that other legend:
Penguins tipped over by bored harrier pilots during the Falkland war.

So not true http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

Actually that is true, it used to be Hercs and
tens etc on finals as the penguins used to watch them on finals and as they had no neck muscles as such used to tip over as they went over.......... was called bowling......

There was also a fund in the Falklands when I was in provided by every crew that served there chipping in for the first Phantom at the time to shoot down an Argentinian recce aircraft that strayed into the no fly zone..... the fund stood at about 40 barrels of beer when i came out for the succesful crew.

stalkervision
11-08-2007, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
Believe it or not and this IS TRUE there are speed traps used in the UK for low flying fast moving RAF jets........ THAT IS A FACT


Another one which happened at Lossiemouth is a Police speed trap in the middle of nowhere in Scotland picked up a speeding car at 100 MPH, they heard a car go past but saw nothing in the dark, they gave chase and eventually pulled a car over on a twisty Scottish road at night in an unlit area with NO LIGHTS ON, turned out it was 2 RAF crew trying out their new helmet mounted night vision scopes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Another I no happened was a Jag Pilot on his last flight went up high and like the signwriters of old drew in the sky, not a farewell message, but a big **** and a set of balls that hung over a certain town for many an hour http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif...

Another at Colt on his last ever flight landed on the taxiway between the hangars and the tower, he had to literally leap over a police car that pulled out in front of him......was off the station in under 12 hours http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This is too funny.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Skunk_438RCAF
11-09-2007, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
Police radar is very difficult to jam. I doubt even a tornado system could do it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This is partially because of the old and cheap method it uses to aquire speed. Many have tried though. It is also illegal to jam it. Now jamming LIDAR guns is perfectly legal though and many systems work very well.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Please enlighten us on the LIDAR jamming SV.

Would it involve:
A- jingling your keys in the windshield?
B- Using a disco ball attached to your rearview mirror?
C- Attach and old CD to your rearview mirror?
D- Aluminum foil attached to the front of your vehicle?

Deadmeat313
11-09-2007, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Police radar is very difficult to jam. I doubt even a tornado system could do it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This is partially because of the old and cheap method it uses to aquire speed. Many have tried though. It is also illegal to jam it. Now jamming LIDAR guns is perfectly legal though and many systems work very well.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Please enlighten us on the LIDAR jamming SV.

Would it involve:
A- jingling your keys in the windshield?
B- Using a disco ball attached to your rearview mirror?
C- Attach and old CD to your rearview mirror?
D- Aluminum foil attached to the front of your vehicle? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All of the above! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

You can't be too careful.


T.

Bremspropeller
11-09-2007, 07:03 AM
Option B ftw

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/5/50/Disco_stu.PNG/280px-Disco_stu.PNG

M_Gunz
11-09-2007, 09:14 AM
I've put doppler on vehicles before. You can hear the weight of the body metal, weight of
the vehicle and signature of the engine if it's big enough to shake the outside. But it's
more interesting to listen to people move and do things.

JG6_Oddball
11-10-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Please enlighten us on the LIDAR jamming SV.

Would it involve:
A- jingling your keys in the windshield?
B- Using a disco ball attached to your rearview mirror?
C- Attach and old CD to your rearview mirror?
D- Aluminum foil attached to the front of your vehicle?

you wear the foil on your head silly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

S!

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Police radar is very difficult to jam. I doubt even a tornado system could do it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This is partially because of the old and cheap method it uses to aquire speed. Many have tried though. It is also illegal to jam it. Now jamming LIDAR guns is perfectly legal though and many systems work very well.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Please enlighten us on the LIDAR jamming SV.

Would it involve:
A- jingling your keys in the windshield?
B- Using a disco ball attached to your rearview mirror?
C- Attach and old CD to your rearview mirror?
D- Aluminum foil attached to the front of your vehicle? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your watching way to much Mythbusters there skunk..and those things were myths about jamming RADAR nut bag and not Lidar. Lidar jammers work and are legal to buy and use.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I've put doppler on vehicles before. You can hear the weight of the body metal, weight of
the vehicle and signature of the engine if it's big enough to shake the outside. But it's
more interesting to listen to people move and do things.

That is absolutely true if it's not moving and the moving doppler signal overrides all these noises.

Skunk_438RCAF
11-10-2007, 08:19 AM
Yeah, but how do you jam an infrared laser beam?

ploughman
11-10-2007, 08:21 AM
That'd be the disco ball.

MEGILE
11-10-2007, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Yeah, but how do you jam an infrared laser beam?

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5909/tinfoilyn7.jpg

Taylortony
11-10-2007, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Yeah, but how do you jam an infrared laser beam?

you peel all those little mirrors of a glitter ball and stick em all over your car...... and wear mirrored shades http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

I suppose if you are in the military you could accelerate towards the copper as if to run him over and claim you thought it was someone with a gun having served in Afganistan, Iraq etc you were suffering a flashback...

The RAF speedtrap uses the radar units from the Radar tracking Bofors gun systems that were captured during the Falklands war, but why the heck the fighter cannot simply use electronic countermeasures to block it is beyond me....

Skunk_438RCAF
11-10-2007, 08:39 AM
Meh I just googled it. Seems Megile is right.

Billy_BigBoy
11-10-2007, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Yeah, but how do you jam an infrared laser beam?

http://optionalg.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/c-130flares-1.jpg

Bremspropeller
11-10-2007, 10:04 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif IR Laser-beam, not IR-seeker http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
Yeah, but how do you jam an infrared laser beam?

You don't literally "jam the beam" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif You just jam up the lazer guns Ir calculating circuits by using a Ir emitter that puts out a stronger signal then the reflections that comes back off your car that the police lidar gun uses to calculate your speed when a police officer hits it with his lidar gun..

ouston
11-10-2007, 02:24 PM
A similar story I heard from a fairly reliable source - cargo flight coming into Coventry over East Anglia and the co-pilot decides to start up his Tom Tom or similar. It announces that he is doing 400 mph in a 30 mph street in Norwich.

Just goes to prove that real men read maps.

Pip pip
Ouston

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 03:23 PM
Btw the mythbuster's were totally off their bananas when they attempted disproving these myths. Anyone with half a mind knew they wouldn't work the way they did it so why even bother? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Pss..There are free plans for jamming x and K-band radar out there on the net and I know of one jammer that actually worked. Too bad the new digital police radar is WAY harder to jam then the old analog guns.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

K_Freddie
11-10-2007, 03:31 PM
Codswallop!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Every little expensive gadget has a embedded processor on board and a reset line. hit this reset and it brings the whole system into reset and reboots. Unless of course the traffic officers did not have a clue how to use the device.

To jam any system at any frequency (this is not going into frequency hopping systems or other methods) you'll need to lock onto the emmission frequency and transmit back at the same or close frequency to jam it. this makes you a target due to your jamming emmisions.

If they even launched a 'shrike' missile at the 'blind' (no clue about a/c recognition) traffic officer. If he angled the device away from the a/c the shrike would lose contact, unless it had optical recognition/GPS systems on it.

And on every a/c the pilot has to OK the missile launch. anything else is a accident waiting to happen.

BULL-BUSTERS (not myth-busters) here we come http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Skunk_438RCAF
11-10-2007, 03:36 PM
You know what I find funny about people who buy radar and lidar jammers?

They say that because they have them they can avoid tickets by being alerted to slow down because there is a cop in the vicinity checking traffic. They save money apparently. They fork over hundreds of dollars for these beepers, yet if they actually drove the speed limit they would never have to give their money to pay for tickets, and thus wouldnt need jammers in the first place!

Kind of strange how the world moves along isnt it?

Wild.Bill.Kelso
11-10-2007, 03:45 PM
So the Tornado's systems will automatically fire it's missiles if you don't override them? That sounds kind of dangerous, but I suppose a fighter ought to be a little dangerous.

Wepps
11-10-2007, 04:32 PM
Now you guys know why American police use 'Radar Dummies', those cardboard pumpkinheads with fake guns.

The rule is make people slow down, not invite attacks from our F117s.

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
Codswallop!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Every little expensive gadget has a embedded processor on board and a reset line. hit this reset and it brings the whole system into reset and reboots. Unless of course the traffic officers did not have a clue how to use the device.

To jam any system at any frequency (this is not going into frequency hopping systems or other methods) you'll need to lock onto the emmission frequency and transmit back at the same or close frequency to jam it. this makes you a target due to your jamming emmisions.



If they even launched a 'shrike' missile at the 'blind' (no clue about a/c recognition) traffic officer. If he angled the device away from the a/c the shrike would lose contact, unless it had optical recognition/GPS systems on it.

And on every a/c the pilot has to OK the missile launch. anything else is a accident waiting to happen.

BULL-BUSTERS (not myth-busters) here we come http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


K-Fred... "To jam any system at any frequency (this is not going into frequency hopping systems or other methods) you'll need to lock onto the emmission frequency and transmit back at the same or close frequency to jam it. this makes you a target due to your jamming emmisions."


>There is actually a manafactured unit out there that does this but is doesn't make you a "target" It simply sends such a high speed number to the police radar that the unit won't believe it is actually a legit signal and the display remains blank. This is actually a quite common occurance in police radar due to the complicated conditions on the highway it has to contend with. Police radar units are highly filtered for that reason and will display no reading quite often.

The other unit I am thinking of uses the "brute force method" It is a very old unit though. This actually can be detected by a trained officer but when the unit was tested by a major car magazine the officers weren't aware they were being jammed. It also sends out a jamming signal that replicates a much lower speed then the driver is going. No officers were aware that they were being jammed though. The truth is these units are so very rare that no police officers even know about them let alone have ever seen or been a victum of one.

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
You know what I find funny about people who buy radar and lidar jammers?

They say that because they have them they can avoid tickets by being alerted to slow down because there is a cop in the vicinity checking traffic. They save money apparently. They fork over hundreds of dollars for these beepers, yet if they actually drove the speed limit they would never have to give their money to pay for tickets, and thus wouldnt need jammers in the first place!

Kind of strange how the world moves along isnt it?

> If you buy a radar and lazer jammer the last thing on your mind is driving the speed limit dummy.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
11-10-2007, 04:54 PM
To all you "scofflaws" ot there I will tell you about the finest book ever written about speeding successfully. It is out of print now. You may be able to find a used copy though.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It is called "How to Avoid Speeding Tickets!
..the Fast Driver's Handbook"

It is the bible of fast and safe speed ticket avoidance.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=...s+handbook&x=63&y=20 (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=How+to+avoid+speeding+tickets%2Cthe+fast+driver s+handbook&x=63&y=20)

It isn't even expensive anymore! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I paid a lot for my copy originally.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Oh it doesn't include LIDAR because it was written before that came in but there are jammers for that..

Not that I am condoning this behavior mind you anymore believe it or not. At one time I would have.. Speeding without getting tickets involves a HUGE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION while driving! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Much more then your normal driver would ever dream of using from day to day. IMO, it is just easier and cheaper to slow down and go with the flow. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There are truly very very few if any FAST and SAFE drivers out there anymore.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sergio_101
11-10-2007, 05:33 PM
It's a internet legend.....

But I have been the unsolicited practice target
for a F-16 on Lake Wentworth NH USA.
I was fishing in the middle of the lake when
I saw it coming.
It was coming straight on at very high speed, we could not hear it at all.

Just as the sound reached us it pulled up in a long arc
leveling off a few miles in the distance at about 2,000 feet.
I turned to my buddy and said, "that pilot is laughing imagining we are very dead".
We found it very entertaining.

I would guess his speed to be at just under Mach1 because he stayed ahead of his noise
until he was nearly on us.

There is ZERO doubt we were his "target".

Sergio

Bremspropeller
11-10-2007, 06:13 PM
The best jammer out there:

http://www.gleisbau-welt.de/grafix/bilder/werkzeug/werkzeug_schwelle/vorschlaghammer.jpg

Billy_BigBoy
11-11-2007, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif IR Laser-beam, not IR-seeker http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You are right, but I'm confinced it will confuse the officer on duty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

x6BL_Brando
11-11-2007, 05:01 AM
I wouldn't put this story down as a myth so easily. Just before I met my wife she was living in a cottage on a remote hilltop-farm in North Wales. At the same time her cousin was stationed on Anglesey, a pilot in a Tornado squadron. Like most RAF pilots he's a born joker, and it wasn't long before she started to notice that the farm was getting regularly 'bounced' by low-flying Tornados. It turned out that her cousin had managed to get the co-ordinates of her farm added into the low-level training flight-plan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It's also worth remembering that the relationship between the RAF and the fuzz isn't exactly amicable. Most of the pilots I've met through VJ's cousin have ridden fast bikes or driven fast cars, and they generally don't like being lectured on speeding by pimply-faced eighteen year olds who haven't got a clue about handling a 27 tonne fighter-bomber flying at nearly Mach 1. Arrogance perhaps, but these guys are trained to have lightning-fast reactions. Many of them have been through 'the real thing' too, Desert Storm(s) and the rest. Running a high-performance car at a ton up a motorway doesn't exactly compare.

So the RAF response doesn't sound like anything more than a leg-pull; a thumb to the nose or a digit or two in the vertical, an up-yours to the local plod...

I'll ask our cousin about the auto-arming thing when I next hear from him. He left the RAF and is now doing long-haul for BA, so it may be a while. I don't doubt that the systems could have acquired the police radar, nor do I doubt that a missile could have been locked-on and launched almost instantaneously in response - but first the plane would have to be carrying armed missiles and second the navigator/WSO would have to have dis-engaged the 'safeties' for any auto-acquisition/launch mechanism to function. Neither of those two conditions would be likely to occur in the situation.

My guess is it's a joke. Maybe the Tornado crew were getting revenge for a speeding ticket; maybe it was a "we could nick you for speeding", "and we could have blown your sorry blue arse across the countryside" kind of exchange. It sounds typical. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

B

Bo_Nidle
11-11-2007, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
Police radar is very difficult to jam. I doubt even a tornado system could do it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This is partially because of the old and cheap method it uses to aquire speed. Many have tried though. It is also illegal to jam it. Now jamming LIDAR guns is perfectly legal though and many systems work very well.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

I don't know where in the world you live but in the UK it IS unlawful to deliberately jam Laser speed detection devices. The device we use gives a readout if its beam is scattered through the use of such a device. We can then seize the equipment or, if necessary, the entire vehicle and the driver could face arrest for perverting the course of justice.

Its easier (and safer) to drive within the speed limit rather than spend a load of money on bits of kit that may allow you to break the law.

We were told of the Tornado jamming story whilst being trained on the earlier radar device. I was sceptical then and still am now.

x6BL_Brando wrote
"Arrogance perhaps, but these guys are trained to have lightning-fast reactions. Many of them have been through 'the real thing' too, Desert Storm(s) and the rest. Running a high-performance car at a ton up a motorway doesn't exactly compare."

That's a typically stupid comment from someone who has never had to clear up the bodies from a fatal collision. They have the advantage at altitude that no-one will pull out on them or lose control from braking too heavily or have some kid run out into the carriageway even on the motorway . There were two young children killed a couple of weeks ago doing exactly that. I don't dispute the excellence of RAF pilots in the air but that doesn't make them any better drivers than anyone else. To paraphrase Captain Blackadder:I don't care how many times they go up-diddly-up if they drive like knobs on a public road they're still gits. (By the way I think you would be hard pushed to find any "pimply 18 year olds" on patrol in the UK let alone on the motorway). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

K_Freddie
11-11-2007, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
It simply sends such a high speed number to the police radar that the unit won't believe it is actually a legit signal and the display remains blank.

Ahem... Sorry to pop this bubble. Radar/laser speed traps do not rely on your car to send it a 'speed number' to tell the police what speed you're doing.
I think you mean it sends a signal at a frequency that is indicative of a high speed.

Radar/laser speed traps work on what is called the Doppler principle. The returned frequency (the signal that bounces off your vehicle) is shifted higher from the original frequency. This shift is a function of your speed.

All jamming does is send a more powerfull signal that the radar/laser unit mistakenly locks onto as it's original signal.

To get around this some radar/laser units use a sweep frequency band, or a pulsed frequency method. This combined with Digital Signal Processing (DSP) the weaker original signal can be filtered out. Thus making it that much harder to jam the signals, that is until somebody making the jammers also gets clever.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

stalkervision
11-11-2007, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
It simply sends such a high speed number to the police radar that the unit won't believe it is actually a legit signal and the display remains blank.

K-Freddie> "Ahem... Sorry to pop this bubble. Radar/laser speed traps do not rely on your car to send it a 'speed number' to tell the police what speed you're doing.

I think you mean it sends a signal at a frequency that is indicative of a high speed."

Stalker > Yes of course that is indeed what I mean. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Radar/laser speed traps work on what is called the Doppler principle. The returned frequency (the signal that bounces off your vehicle) is shifted higher from the original frequency. This shift is a function of your speed.

All jamming does is send a more powerfull signal that the radar/laser unit mistakenly locks onto as it's original signal.

Stalket> Yes indeed that is one method. That is more the brute force method. Another is to send a signal out so close to the original frequency the radar or lazer unit is using it can't decide which one is it's own original signal and just stays blank.

Freddie."To get around this some radar/laser units use a sweep frequency band, or a pulsed frequency method.


Stalker > Sorry Fred, that kind of unit isn't allowed by the FCC whatsoever. THANK GOD! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif All police radar and I believe even Lazer though that it isn't FCC regulated are continuious wave sources. The way they get around radar and lazer detectors is to use what is correctly called "Instant on". Some driver's call it "pulsed method". Maybe that is where you got that term from? Police call it "the kill button" btw.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif The radar or lazer unit is flipped on for a fracton of a second or two,the speed is read and then it is flipped off. Most newer units are lighting fast at this too..

This happens so fast one doesn't even have time to slow down. In fact their units will pick up you trying to do just that and know if you slam on your brakes like a big dummy that you are carrying a radar detector and it just went off.. DON'T SLAM ON YOUR BRAKES! Also the units aren't sending out a signal all the time for any radar or lazer detectors users to pick up. If you are the victum in the "beam" you are toast. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif The only way around it is to pick up a reflection off of a car being targeted ahead of you. If there are no fast targets ahead and your speeding your toast.

BTW, very good quality Radar detectors can pick up this scattered signal but not lazer..

Lazer scatter reception is very rare. The lazer beam is very narrow and the ir beam hardly reflects whatsoever except directly back to the lazer gun. That is why a lazer jammer is really pretty much now required for driving fast without getting tickets



Freddie." This combined with Digital Signal Processing (DSP) the weaker original signal can be filtered out. Thus making it that much harder to jam the signals, that is until somebody making the jammers also gets clever.

Stalker> DSP does indeed make jamming a new police radar unit more difficult as you say. These units tend to filter out jamming signals a whole lot better..

It is a continuing technological war on the highway between people who believe that it is their god given right to go fast and the police who mostly use their new radar and lazer speed tools as a revenue source for their strapped budget towns and states.

Right now the police are winning sad to say. Radar and lazer detectors haven't kept up hardy enough with the technology the police are using except in lazer jamming.

Btw, for all of you that don't know this yet police do not have to remain stationary to get your speed. Almost all radar speed readings are from "Moving radar" now.. The police radar unit in the moving police car reads your speed and it's own speed and subtracts the difference to get a reading. This use to take a few seconds but now only takes a blink of an eye. There are also units that can check speeds in front of and behind the police car "on the fly" and also pick out the fastest cars in a bunch of cars. Use to be one could "hide" behind a big truck who's radar reflection was way stronger then your own. That is rarely possible anymore.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Skunk_438RCAF
11-11-2007, 11:26 AM
Btw, for all of you that don't know this yet police do not have to remain stationary to get your speed. Almost all radar speed readings are from "Moving radar" now..

This has been around for years, I might even say decades. I dont know about the US police radars, but I do know that in Canada, the RCMP has had dashboard mounted radar for a while now. It would read the speed of oncoming vehicles and deduce the speed of the police car and give you the read out.

stalkervision
11-11-2007, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Btw, for all of you that don't know this yet police do not have to remain stationary to get your speed. Almost all radar speed readings are from "Moving radar" now..

This has been around for years, I might even say decades. I dont know about the US police radars, but I do know that in Canada, the RCMP has had dashboard mounted radar for a while now. It would read the speed of oncoming vehicles and deduce the speed of the police car and give you the read out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya, you and I know that, huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The newer moving radar units are really really nasty though..

They can read your speed every which way on the fly except straight overhead! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif