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Pr0metheus 1962
03-18-2005, 03:44 PM
Last week I took various game magazines to task for not giving SH3 the coverage it deserved. Today I received a reply from Steve Bauman, Editor in Chief of Computer Games Magazine. It's interesting:

"There's a simple reason: UbiSoft never really tried to promote the game with the press, and we were unable to get materials for coverage.

To use another example of how things can easily get messed up, we had a preview of Sonalysts' Dangerous Waters ready to go, but they kept telling us, "The game will be shipping in a couple of weeks." So we held the preview. That was in October. We kept holding it, but the game was always coming, "In a couple of weeks."

Well, that couple of weeks turned into about 6 months (since we now finally have the final version of the game). So we didn't end up with any pre-release coverage.

---
Steve Bauman | Editor-in-Chief | Computer Games Magazine"

So it seems that the gaming magazines aren€t completely to blame, although I do notice that there€s a distinct lack of investigative reporting (but let€s face facts, we€re not talking about the New York Times here). But the main issue is that apparently, Ubisoft doesn€t believe in this game enough to actually tell anyone in the gaming press about it.

Alpha_456
03-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Maybe they didn't believe some days ago but as they get more and more "sold out" reports things are going to change i hope.

I read in a thread that they announced SH4 for Q1 2006.Also the quick patch 1.1 and the will to fix the rest of the problems is very encouraging to me.

It seems that in the future we won't have to wait many years for a good subsim. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
03-18-2005, 04:05 PM
I think of it this way. Really the dev team has been under pressure even more to get SHIII done since they passed their first date. All started when we wanted the Dynamic Campaign. I believe that word of mouth really made SHIII sell out so quickly and also the help with Subsim and other fan sites where many of us seek quality sims like SHIII. I did my part by posting on any webpages out there that did have a review of SHIII. SHIII is so different this time there is always chance of a fire from just a little spark. Information gets around quick if its good and unique. I surely shown nearly everyone at work all the SHIII videos that I store now on my portable 1gig USB drive. I would of wanted UBI to have a TV commmercial to show SHIII off. I know EA did woth some of their games/sims.

Chuck_Older
03-18-2005, 04:15 PM
Beeryus-

In all honestly, I find this the norm for Ubi's sims, unfortunately.

I first got news of the original Il-2 by walking into a store, and I've been playing sims since the early/mid '80s. That's very poor marketing, and I have often asked myself 'why?'

I haven't come up with a reason yet. But one possiblity is that Ubi simply won't spend the money on it. They have done odd things in the past http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
03-18-2005, 04:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
I think of it this way. Really the dev team has been under pressure even more to get SHIII done since they passed their first date. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me just say that I don't think the development team is to blame for any of this. They have done a great job all around. But it seems that everyone else involved hasn't pulled their weight. Ubisoft's marketing folks didn't think the game worthy of pushing, beyond some simple ads, and in the US the distributors messed up the delivery to those of us who ordered directly from Ubisoft. I don't think the game's success will be affected in the long-term by these things, but it just makes it that much harder, and what could have been a smash hit will have to be what they call a 'sleeper hit'.

BoneDaddy1844
03-18-2005, 04:32 PM
Interesting information, Beeryus.

When I called some Gamestops on Tuesday to see if they had the game in stock yet, at least one sales associate said to the effect that SH3 was not projected to be a big seller, there wasn't a big demand for it, and referred to it as one of their "smaller titles".

Uh-huh. That is one example of how little Ubi$oft marketed this game. If the retailers treat the game as nothing to get excited about, why should anyone else?

Starting to sound more and more like Ubi$oft depth-charged SH3 even before it got out of it's sub pen.

Tsk-tsk. I feel bad for the developers. All that hard work.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

dse1010
03-18-2005, 04:36 PM
I get the feeling that any sim, no matter how much marketing, would be a projected "small seller". Also, how well is the game really doing in sales? If the retailers only got a few copies because they didn't expect much of it, then selling out isn't that big of a deal.

ivoloos
03-18-2005, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
But the main issue is that apparently, Ubisoft doesn€t believe in this game enough to actually tell anyone in the gaming press about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's a pity. If it's correct, it's up to us all to proof against Ubisoft, they were wrong.
At the other hand... I always say that all what is good, will sell itself. (yes, I know it not always work that way, but you know what I mean http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Pr0metheus 1962
03-18-2005, 04:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dse1010:
I get the feeling that any sim, no matter how much marketing, would be a projected "small seller".. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but it's funny to me because simulations used to be THE BIG computer game genre. Back in the early '90s simulations were all over the computer games magazines - covers, previews, reviews galore. They were like the 90s version of the FPS. Just recall for a moment the endless hype over Falcon 4.0.

So it makes me wonder - are simulations poor sellers because people really don't want them, or are they poor sellers because the industry doesn't believe they can be good sellers? After all, if you hype something enough, it will become popular - just look at any of the recent batch of appalling Hollywood comedies. So I think it's a chicken and egg situation, and I think simulations are being sold short not because people don't enjoy them, but simply because marketers don't like to hype them so people don't realise how great a gaming experience they can be. I mean SURELY a good simulation is more rewarding than a MMORPG game, and surely a good sim has more depth than a stupid FPS.

Chroniss
03-18-2005, 04:54 PM
On a brighter note, when I bought mine at EBX, the sales guy told me he had sold quite a few copies of it already.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-18-2005, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BoneDaddy1844:
...at least one sales associate said to the effect that SH3 was not projected to be a big seller, there wasn't a big demand for it, and referred to it as one of their "smaller titles". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had the exact same experience when I went into EB Games last night.

jimmie_T
03-18-2005, 05:26 PM
and I still don't get the game from Ubi.com...
(how stupid I was to cancel my order at amazon to place an order at Ubi.com)

NikoJ
03-18-2005, 05:29 PM
It could be that they suspected that a subsim would only appeal to a small amount of people: the grognards.
The grognards tends to find out about these types of games themselves. So by not advertising to the masses (who wouldn't buy a sim anyway) they save a lot of "dollares" by letting the sim crowd (Neal for instance) doing the free advertisments and info for their peers.

This could be one explanation (albeit maybe not a great one).
Keep in mind english isn't my first language so sorry about the poor typing skills...

//NikoJ
(Salkin from battlefront forums)

hakentt
03-18-2005, 05:38 PM
Why would they promote the BETA game??? It ruins their reputation! Or maybe the editor of magazine is JEW?! This SH3 game needs at least few more patches to make it market game. Multiplayer still does not work. Boooo UBIsoft

Mjollnir111675
03-18-2005, 05:47 PM
hakentt,

Yer in need of a ban, a BRAIN or some such and "Yer outta yer element Donnie!"



Mjollnir
"For the sparkling waves are calling you to kiss their white laced lips."

Pr0metheus 1962
03-18-2005, 07:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hakentt:
Why would they promote the BETA game??? It ruins their reputation! Or maybe the editor of magazine is JEW?... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! I guess the least said about that, the better. I guess every forum gets its share.

Messervy
03-18-2005, 07:53 PM
The way I see it is very comparable with the Hollywood movie industrie.
Every simulation demands a player that is willing to get involved in a game in much more profound way than simply being in front of the screen, presing the buttons.
Simulations provide the frame while the player with his abilities to project his inner, deeper understanding of the world he is simulating provides the ultimate experience. It is a hand in hand process.
We all have great memories of simulation in early years of coumputer gaming industrie. Now we are beiing spoiled in a very much Hollywood manner. We deman ever more.
I guess a lot of us have great recolletion of incredible movies that were not, in any way regarded as a blockbusters. We have that recollection by having been actively involved while looking at them, because they reflected some part of our selves.
Speaking from my experience allmost all blockbuster movies left me completely empty the very same moment I left the cinema.
Yet they sell well and every couple of years there is "deep runner" in the cinema - very much like a good sim.
Just my two cents.

BoneDaddy1844
03-18-2005, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BoneDaddy1844:
...at least one sales associate said to the effect that SH3 was not projected to be a big seller, there wasn't a big demand for it, and referred to it as one of their "smaller titles". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had the exact same experience when I went into EB Games last night. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's sad really. When I walked into the store to pick-up the game, there was only one other person in the store besides the sales associate. The customer was at the counter engaged in a one-sided conversation with the associate, gushing over all the newest titles, while ignoring his screaming kid in the stroller he was holding. Finally, the associate cut the guy off and asked me if I needed help with anything. I told him I was here to pick up Silent Hunter III. He replied, "Oh yeah, right. You called about that one, huh?" and I nodded.

While he went off to go find the game, which was still NOT on display in the back room, the customer turns to me and says, "Silent Hunter, yeah. Boy, that's an OLD series!"

I just smiled and ignored him. While the associate was ringing up the sale, I glanced around at the walls in the store. Each wall was stacked to the ceiling with videogame console titles everywhere. Tony Hawk, Halo 2, BIA: Hill 40, sports titles galore.

It's no wonder the store employees have little enthusiasm for a lonely old sub simulation.

Messervy
03-18-2005, 08:08 PM
Sad as you say, but I never found real pleasure in being one of the many, but being one of the few - that keeps the spirit alive. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pr0metheus 1962
03-18-2005, 08:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BoneDaddy1844:
I told him I was here to pick up Silent Hunter III. He replied, "Oh yeah, right. You called about that one, huh?" and I nodded. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay this is getting freaky. I had the same exchange with my store clerk. Are we in a parallel universe? LOL.

Holly-Woods
03-18-2005, 08:31 PM
I preordered my copy of SHIII on 15 Mar. That's right, one day prior to it's release. The clerk asked if I was ordering for my boyfriend/husband/brother/some sort of male figure and almost fell over when I said "Nope, it's for me." "I didn't know girls like this kind of game..." he said. I told him he should see my well worn and loved white Kriegsmarine crusher cap! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Anyhoo, he told me I was the only person to have ordered it and it was in the store but I couldn't have it until the next day. So, when I went back the next day, there was another guy at the counter and I told him I was there to pick up my preorder for Silent Hunter III. Meanwhile the chap I spoke to the day prior recognized me and popped into the storeroom to get my game. He smiled at me and handed it to cash register dude who looked at the box, flipped it over, opened the flap and said "Oooohhh, this is a submarine game! I thought it was a hunting game. Is it like Medal of Honor or something?" Dumb@$$....

Holly

BoneDaddy1844
03-18-2005, 08:40 PM
@ Holly--

Funny you should mention that story about the sales guy thinking SH3 was a "hunting" game.

When I was developing my solution for scoring a copy of SH3 at the store, I briefly considered making a stop at a local K-Mart, where budget hunting games are flowing off the shelves. I figured I might get lucky if some nitwit stock person thought Silent Hunter III was another deer hunting game!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Holly-Woods
03-18-2005, 08:51 PM
OMG, no kidding! That would have been huge if you could have found it there 10 or 20 bucks! And, I wouldn't be a bit surprised either. Fortunately, we don't have a K-Mart in this town at all and our Wal-Marts tend to be a little more cosmopolitan than most so you don't see a lot of the budget hunting games including Silent Hunter, as today's recon trip confirmed.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Holly

Subsim
03-18-2005, 10:18 PM
It's been my impression that Ubisoft has put some effort into promoting SH3. I know firsthand from E3, they had a really big exhibit for SH3 and there were plenty of Ubifolk, including Tiberius, Florin, Cristian and other members of the Romanian dev team there.

They also showed the game at the German Games convetion and have run ads in major mags.

Also, when the Subsim Sub Club had their meeting last October, I called Ubi and suggested a build would make a great demo for the 20+ players at the meeting and they jumped right on it and Fed Exed a version straight to Subsim (I had to sleep with the DVD in my shirt, those guys were so excited about seeing the game).

And Ubirazz and Francisco have always gotten any questions or builds to me right away, so I would guess it is (at least) the same for the bigger journalists.

I'm not sure in Steve's case about the PR efforts he saw. I offered to write the Computer Games Magazine review of SH3 but he kept putting me off (I reminded him 3 times in 3 months) and he finally stopped responding :P I know he's pretty busy and maybe he had someone else in mind, but I cannot imagine there was a problem getting material from Ubi.

Neal

BoneDaddy1844
03-18-2005, 10:53 PM
@ Neal--

Thanks for the info. Sounds like a big splash was made for the gaming insiders. Too bad those efforts didn't trickle down to the retail employee level. Silent Hunter III is barely a ping on the sonar to them...

blue_76
03-18-2005, 11:03 PM
i had a simmilar experience.. when i got to the store, there was no display or any advertisement about sh3. when i asked the sales clerk he told me they had it, but he had to really search for the box and then when he found it he handed me a slightly ripped box which i was too happy to receive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the whole place was stacked with console games and the pc section had nothing but action oriented games on display while sh3 turned up at a remote location all the way at the top shelf.. amazing.. for a game that was just released in the US that day.

SOF_Timber
03-18-2005, 11:26 PM
Here in New Jersey the game was proudly displayed in the center of the PC section at EB. There were 3 copies with the covers showing along with Brothers in Arms. I was first person to buy (bought 2 copies)the game. The kid said the store was getting calls for both SH3 & BIA. He than went in the back room and replaced the 2 games I bought. I think its going to sell well in spite of the lack of hype. Anyway PC Gamer had full page ads for the last 2 issues. The reviews should be coming soon.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-19-2005, 01:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Holly-Woods:
I told him he should see my well worn and loved white Kriegsmarine crusher cap! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One thing that sub sims have over every other kind of computer game - their fans have a special cap. I have my Kaleu cap too. I should do a poll on it.