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RvDijk | Baksteen72
04-13-2004, 10:17 AM
I really hate to be complaining about such a small thing in this great game, but I just want to get it off my chest: have more people noticed that AI fighters seem to have x-ray vision and see exactly where you are when you're (both) flying through thick clouds? I thought it would be a nice idea to lose a fighter on my six by doing some turns in a cloud, but they just follow and shoot me like there were no clouds at all... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

RvDijk | Baksteen72
04-13-2004, 10:17 AM
I really hate to be complaining about such a small thing in this great game, but I just want to get it off my chest: have more people noticed that AI fighters seem to have x-ray vision and see exactly where you are when you're (both) flying through thick clouds? I thought it would be a nice idea to lose a fighter on my six by doing some turns in a cloud, but they just follow and shoot me like there were no clouds at all... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Dmitri9mm
04-13-2004, 10:33 AM
Actually you're not the only one complaining about this, it has been brought up quite a few times. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
The AI in the game has an absolutely unupstructed view all around. It can see in the dark, at six o'clock low, through mountains, so of course it can see through clouds. The reason why view restrictions was never incoorporated in the AI is a mystery to me, but since I almost never fly offline, it is not a great problem for me.
Possibly in PF or BoB this will be added but certainly not before that.

http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/air/italy/fiat/00305.jpg
>"Flatspin", what is that supposed to mean? This aircraft is entirely spin-proof!<

carguy_
04-13-2004, 10:44 AM
No cure for it.You can only hope that when you`ll se someone on your tail it would be a human.Ace AI is almost unbeatable when somehow it jumps you.

Plus it flies like human pilots never do.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

PF_Talus
04-13-2004, 10:46 AM
From what I understand, you are also not safe in clouds online. If another player has different settings for clouds, then what you see will not be what they see.


http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Talus/Il-2_001.jpg

SeaFireLIV
04-13-2004, 10:47 AM
Yea, AI sees through clouds. I always avoid cloud when fighting AI. I had one situation last week where I couldn`t avoid the cloud. It seemed everywhere! I got onto an AIs 6, he dived into cloud (not on purpose, it was a fluke, since AI doesn`t see cloud), but I was worried. Immediately I lost him and just as quickly he was on my six shooting- in thick cloud!

All I could do was keep turning, but then I lost all my bearings and hit a small hill. I don`t get caught out by that often, but it certainly wasn`t a fair fight. It was like fighting an F16 with radar rather than a WWII aircraft.

Apparently it`s too difficult to get the AI to detect clouds. I`m not a programmer, but those clouds are VERY wispy, I could see it being tough to tell AI to see it.

The AI seeing at night is a mystery. I can`t see why the AI `seeing` radius can`t be greatly reduced as well as dropping their skill level down to make up for the darkness. That really should be addressed.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg

antifreeze
04-14-2004, 05:23 AM
PF_Talus:

I seriously hope not!! I assumed that the cloud setting would be determined by the host!! I use clouds all the time in tactical fights; it would be an extremely serious flaw in the game if one person used clouds and the other could have them turned off!!

I'm going to try to test this with my squad, but can anyone confirm this point??

http://forgotten.battles.pulpo.co.uk/il2logo.gif

SUPERAEREO
04-14-2004, 05:40 AM
CLOUDS ONLINE: if you have "Detailed Clouds" on and other players only have set "Medium Clouds", your clouds will be bigger than theirs.

This means that very often you might think you are hiding from somebody on your six by entering the nearest big cloud, but your opponent will only see you flying above/below/by the side of a much smaller cloud.

You will be very visible and you will get shot down.

This has nothing to do with the host but with the settings on your own PC, so you should select "Medium Clouds" if you are flying online.

Ok, now you owe me a virtual life or two... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

SeaFireLIV
04-14-2004, 05:41 AM
No. It`s controlled by the host. Online I often use clouds to escape. Sometimes they`ll try a lucky `last-minute` burst as I enter, but then I`m free. They certainly haven`t chased me or shot me ever in cloud successfully ever.

SUPERAEREO
04-14-2004, 05:52 AM
My understanding was that you will still see "Detailed Clouds" on your screen if you have it enabled, even if your host has set "Medium Clouds".

I am happy to stand corrected if you are sure of it, SeaFire!

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

ZG77_Lignite
04-14-2004, 07:43 AM
Imho, 'Detailed Clouds' does not change the size of clouds, but the distance at which they are 'drawn'. With Detailed Clouds you can see banks of clouds out to about (estimated) 10km, whereas Medium Clouds are about 1/2 that, the clouds that you are flying in are the same regardless.

I could be wrong, but I find clouds to be the single most useful feature for flying online, and personally I feel I can Not be shot down with any decent sized bank of clouds near me (of course I have been shot down in cloud fights before, but not very often).

F19_Ob
04-14-2004, 08:17 AM
A good thing with the clouds in the sim is that like in RL it is easier to spot a plane in the cloud if u watch from below or above, rather than from a horisontal viewpoint.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Zayets
04-14-2004, 08:22 AM
This really weird. I don't know how 2 players on the same server can have different clouds since you can see the clouds shape in the mini map. It apperas to me that they are rather embeded in the map itself,not something that you can play with your own settings.But this is just a guess.

Zayets out
http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-iar80pic.jpg

SUPERAEREO
04-14-2004, 08:25 AM
I have never seen clouds in the mini-map, Zayets... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

T_O_A_D
04-15-2004, 01:10 PM
Well you got me thinking now. But my understanding was it was a video option, per machine not host. SO you you could get more FPS on a weaker machine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif I have a couple machines here at home on my LAN I will test.

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

|CoB|_Spectre
04-15-2004, 02:59 PM
The issue of AI being able to track and shoot you inside a cloud goes back a long way. I recall that Rowan's Battle of Britain advertised that you could make tactical use of clouds. I didn't fly it much, so I asked a friend in the UK if he remembered that, in fact, you could use clouds as a way to lose an enemy AI. He said that was indeed his recollection and I also checked some archived reviews of Rowan's BoB to make sure it was a feature. Not being a programmer, I can't say how this was achieved but here's a thought:
The clouds in the IL-2/FB series do not move, making their positions and dimensions static at all times. It would seem feasible to design the AI's behavior to be affected when inside the dimensional boundaries of a cloud. This could approximate loss of padlock, which I know is something that presently only affects human pilots, but some obscuration of the precision of the tracking function used by the AI might allow for a more variable outcome. In example, upon entering the boundary of a cloud, the AI could maintain the same track, attitude and airspeed toward his target while in the cloud regardless of his target's maneuvering just as you would continue along the presumed path of a target you were following but could no longer see. This would give the pilot being pursued the opportunity to alter his course resulting in the AI's having "lost him in the clouds". Once outside the defined boundaries of the cloud mass, the basic AI tracking could resume (even though the realistic variable of possibly being unable to re-acquire would still not be modeled). Presently you can see AI behavior change when, for example in an online co-op, you are being chased and transmit the command for "Anyone, help me" to bring friendly AI aircraft to your aid and the AI pursuer breaks off your six. It doesn't seem a far stretch to see AI behavioral change along these lines. I think this would be a significant improvement in gameplay, both online and offline. The question now is whether or not 1C:Maddox can retrofit such capability into the existing IL-2/FB/AEP engine. If it could be done, it would seem natural to incorporate it into Pacific Fighters. We may have to wait for BoB, but whenever it could be done, it would be appreciated.

roybaty
04-15-2004, 03:59 PM
I have successfully escaped into clouds on greatergreen servers as well as the virtualpilots servers.

Great tactic, works almost everytime against less experienced pilots. When I see someone head into a cloud I climb and circle like a vulcher waiting for them to pop out somewhere below me. When I enter a cloud I usually split-S and climb in the other direction.

-------------- QUICK SPECS --------------

-------------- HARDWARE --------------

MOTHERBOARD: Asus A7N266c
PROCESSOR: AMD XP2000@1.7 Ghz
SOUNDCARD: SB Live, Gamer 5.1
VIDEO CARD: PNY nVidia Ti4400/128
RAM: 1 Gig 2100 DDR
HOTAS 1: Thrustmaster COUGAR
HOTAS 2: Saitek X36
PEDALS: CH Pro Pedals USB
OTHER INPUT: Track IR2


-------------- SOFTWARE --------------

OS: Win XP Pro
VOICE COMMAND: Shoot 1.6
DX Ver: 9b

T_O_A_D
04-15-2004, 05:57 PM
SUPERAEREO Has it right as stated above, short I'm not completly sure about the size thing. I am sure of that with detailed you see more clouds further away. But up close they look the same to me. I just tested it. Also will add that the is no way for the Host or the client to choose no clouds while online. Unless there is a way by messing with the config file, but in the in game menu there is not. So I recommend while Online choose medium clouds. That way others will not be hid far away by a cloud mass. All this time I've been running detailed.

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

antifreeze
04-16-2004, 03:11 AM
Thanks for the info about the clouds. I think I will still keep mine on high detail for immersion, and make sure I only hide in the dead-centre of big ones.

OK, so what about trees? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Can a player land along the bank of a river where I see a line of trees, but he doesn't because of his tree setting?

http://forgotten.battles.pulpo.co.uk/il2logo.gif

Bull-Dog.
04-16-2004, 06:16 AM
Well I learn something new every day. I just love this game/sim and forum.
I will try both settings and see which is best for me.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/bull_dog/images/4-picture.jpg?0.9775497653600231

SUPERAEREO
04-16-2004, 08:06 AM
Thank you T_O_A_D.

I think it's an issue that goes all the way back to the original IL-2.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger