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Tranie117
08-31-2008, 07:52 AM
O.k. first post here goes.

Firstly Hi
Secondly I can't spell, sorry (or any other words)
Thirdly I've been playing IL2 for about a month now, and just like so many gamers my age (16) I jumped right in without reading the Manual, or much else, and therefore learnt everything the hard way. I use the word everything extremely loosely. Thankfully my Dad ("Desk Pilot") did the complete opposite and read into the game quite abit. So I've learnt abit off him and after a couple of hundred hours of practice I can now fly in a straight line and even shoot down the occasional Zero.
I fly the P-38 Lightning (the later version) and have bonded with it as I'm sure allot of you have with your favorite aircraft. I'm finding that it's very hard to climb after I've lost some of that all important altitude. I'm also finding it hard to trim the tabs, I mean I can do it, but as soon as I speed up or down or flu higher or lower I have to do it all over again! Any tips? I know I'm probably coming across like a complete "Noob" but believe me I'm not actually all that bad. Honest...

Thanks, 117

VW-IceFire
08-31-2008, 08:37 AM
Hey. Welcome to the forums.

First thing...spelling...nothing beats learning to do that properly too but the quick and easy way (I misspell stuff all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) to do that is to get Mozilla Firefox (instead of Internet Explorer) which has built in spell checking while your typing up your post. Its brilliant! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

www.mozilla.com (http://www.mozilla.com)

Love the P-38...fantastic aircraft. It does take a bit of a specialist to learn its intricacies and make it work for them. Its a fighter but its quite large in size compared to most so that makes you a juicier target...particularly online. Its very rewarding to fly well on the other hand...nothing beats getting into a fight, loosing an engine, and then getting home on a single prop where another plane would have fallen out of the sky.

Why do you find it hard to climb? Specifically? It takes time...focus on your climb speed...there is an ideal speed range where you should keep the plane at that speed while climbing for best sustained climb rate. Focus on the speed rather than pointing your nose as high as you can...that will only slow you down.

Trimming is a constant task. You'll be trimming from the time you take off to the time you land. The best pilots will be doing this to keep the plane flying as straight as possible which in turn means faster. Online some pilots have been known to pull away from other pilots merely because the one pilot is trimming their plane better.

In the P-38 you have an advantage. The two engines spin counter to each other so there is no prop torque and you almost never have to trim your rudder. Just the elevator.

AnaK774
08-31-2008, 08:39 AM
Gentle adjustments on trim, don't overdo it.

Speed is life, altitude is life insurance.

Losing speed is not that bad if you still have altitude, but lack of both is good way to get some paratrooping execrise.

Don't engage unless you have advantage and exit planned to again advantageous position.

38 has exellent gun package, learn to use it effectively.

Dive brakes are better to be off, use only when REALLY needed = pullouts+ contolling your boom on unwary target without overspeeding.

Hope those help a bit

Tranie117
08-31-2008, 10:30 AM
The legendary Ice has replied to my Post!

I do have Fire fox, and the spell check is helping thanks. I did loose one engine in a dogfight and then land once, and again your right it was awesome! Hmmmm... I'm gonna practice my climbing. I think the problem is I climb to steeply and loose speed, thanks for the advice. And as for trimming, practice makes perfect but I think I have the hang of it. My dad ("Desk Pilot") flies a tempest and when I see the propeller torque thingy you mentioned I can't help but feel relieved I don't have to put up with that. Especial at take off...

Stingray333
08-31-2008, 10:42 AM
Howdy,

I just thought that I would mention that, at least for me, the cntrl+arrow keys and cntrl+Z/X keys for the trim I found a little cumbersome, especially in the middle of a furball. I mapped the trim directly to the arrow keys, and the rudder trim directly to the Z/X keys, and I also found it handy to map the trim neutral keys to something easier as well. Not a huge trick, but having it mapped this way just made it easier for me to quickly adjust the trim when things were getting hot.

I eventually used my spare joystick which had a throttle on it and mapped the throttle to the trim controls in the game, that made trimming much easier.

As for climbing, don't climb too much, try to find the climb angle that you can keep a constant speed, I don't know the ideal climb speed for the P-38, but I imagine it is in the neighborhood of 290-320 kmh, someone will likely correct me on this. Also, hold the climb angle by setting the trim, not so that your holding the elevator with constant back pressure.

Another thing to do is to keep an eye on your 'slip ball indicator', and keep it centered with the rudder. A little slip can result in a lot of extra drag.

Good flying!

Stingray

Tranie117
08-31-2008, 10:52 AM
I already mapped the trim controls to the arrows and that helped me allot too. I'm defiantly gonna try mapping them to the throttle thingy on my joystick so that I can try that out. Thanks.

stalkervision
08-31-2008, 10:59 AM
Find the fastest plane in the game and only turn when your 10 miles out of the combat zone! That's my advice. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh and fly really really high all the time too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Blottogg
08-31-2008, 11:40 AM
Tranie117, welcome to the forum, and to the sim. Something to help you with climbing is a program called Il-2 Compare, which you can download here (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=329). It will give you performance information and graphs for the aircraft in the sim, including best climb rate and speed. Most of the aircraft climb best around 250 kph/150 mph, but it will vary from aircraft to aircraft.

In real aircraft, you've got to trim any time you change airspeed or power settings, so the sim is pretty accurate in this regard. The trim isn't instantaneous in the sim though, so it's best if you click the trim control once or twice, wait a second to see the effect, then trim more if you need to. That will help you avoid "chasing the trim".

Good luck, and feel free to ask more questions. There's a HUGE amount of content in this sim, so you can keep busy trying out new aircraft/missions/campaigns/tactics for a long time.

X32Wright
08-31-2008, 11:43 AM
Before you can fly the P-38 you have to learn 'energy tactics' and 'energy mangement'. This means the ability to maximize your speed on a diven alt as well as the ability to retain speed relative to altitude changes. This includes your ability to be able to maximize your turn with outmost control on speed and maneuverability.

Most people equate maneuverability to 'turn and burn' (TNB) which is wrong, manueverability juts emans the ability of the plane to do what you wnat it to do WHEN you want it NOT when u NEED to but rather when you WANT it too. If you are fightign and always NEEDING to change diretcion and fly then you ahve lost because you are REACTING to our oppoment rather than WANTING to fly and adjust you flying since you are in command of the engagement. There is a HUGE difference between NEED and WANT when it comes to flying combat online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So my advice to you is to learn to use the airbrakes on the late P-38 and learn to use it vs more agile planes like a A6M3 or A6M5b. You have to be careful because those planes can kill a P-38 quickly if you are slow and turning with no excess energy to pull away.

stalkervision
08-31-2008, 11:49 AM
sometimes I think the zero is the best beginner aircraft. You can t and b all over the sky with it and climb like a monkey at low speeds. Of course it's a Ronson lighter and your the fuel. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

X32Wright
08-31-2008, 11:56 AM
I disagree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif a perfect trainer plane is a plane that can both TNB and BNZ as well as have good guns. For me this means La5Fn which is what I use to train people in our squad. After that they can ADAPT and fly anything from FW's to Zeros to Me262's as well as the American fighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Very few planes can both BNZ and TNB at the same time with the xeception of the Spit VIII and maybe the G2 but those two have more temperaments in handling than the La5FN.

stalkervision
08-31-2008, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by X32Wright:
I disagree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif a perfect trainer plane is a plane that can both TNB and BNZ as well as have good guns. For me this means La5Fn which is what I use to train people in our squad. After that they can ADAPT and fly anything from FW's to Zeros to Me262's as well as the American fighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Very few planes can both BNZ and TNB at the same time with the exception of the Spit VIII and maybe the G2 but those two have more temperaments in handling than the La5FN.

Ya that planes will do also I suppose.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I love fighting in Russian fighter planes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Daiichidoku
08-31-2008, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by X32Wright:
a perfect trainer means La5Fn

- 1,835

'training' inferrs that something will learned



best trainers for this game is either a zero or a jug

learn how to survive and get kills in either (prefferably both), and from therein, everything else will seem like a total cake walk


BTW, in game, the 38 HAS torque
in fact, its FM is completely FUBAR'd vs RL

that said, if you take your lumps, and learn from them, the 38 CAN be immensely rewarding

stalkervision
08-31-2008, 01:57 PM
see someone agrees with me about the zero.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Newbies get into fur balls all the time and this is where the zero shines. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

M_Gunz
08-31-2008, 02:00 PM
These guys give good advice but watch out with spell checkers as they can help you spell
the wrong words perfectly.
Example: there, their and they're are 3 different words that all too often get used interchangeably.
Advice: don't worry about it overmuch.

SlithMan
08-31-2008, 02:07 PM
yep zero is awesome plane my fave and really easy to handle, its very forgiving. Just don't get hit but its so maneuverable that's usually not a problem just be really aware of whats around you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

general_kalle
08-31-2008, 02:33 PM
as with all american planes, they are prone to stalling compared to Me109's and Zero's so be gentle on the turns. you can outtrun the most enemy's

jdigris001
08-31-2008, 04:19 PM
As a P38 lover myself Ill give you some tips that are peculiar to this game

Climbing, if you can, get to 400kph straight and level then drop your flaps to the "combat" setting. This will result in a nose up attitude, you have to push gently down on the stick to prevent the aircraft losing its energy. It doesnt appear to be climbing very well but if you watch the altimeter you will notice that it is really hauling. When the aircraft drops to 250kph raise the flaps and level off and regain your airspeed, repeat the combat flaps climb until your at the altitude you need.

Turning, the P38 doesnt turn as well as you would expect for a fighter so here again is a little trick peculiar to the game. The P38 is pretty hard to stall out, it hardly ever suddenly and without warning drops a wing unlike that damn mustang so roll 90 degrees, pull back on the stick hard AND drop the dive brakes, you will find the aircraft turns in a third of the circle that it does without the brakes. Watch your speed, u will rapidly lose speed, so retract them when the energy bleeds off. This trick is very handy when booming and zooming. I usually let off the nose guns in a head on pass at a range of 900m, zoom past the surviving zeros, and run until they are at least 1.5km behind you. Then do the speed brake turn and you can boom and zoom then on a head on pass again. The sudden turn in a third of whats normal for a P38 suprises nearly all AI.

VW-IceFire
08-31-2008, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Tranie117:
The legendary Ice has replied to my Post!

I do have Fire fox, and the spell check is helping thanks. I did loose one engine in a dogfight and then land once, and again your right it was awesome! Hmmmm... I'm gonna practice my climbing. I think the problem is I climb to steeply and loose speed, thanks for the advice. And as for trimming, practice makes perfect but I think I have the hang of it. My dad ("Desk Pilot") flies a tempest and when I see the propeller torque thingy you mentioned I can't help but feel relieved I don't have to put up with that. Especial at take off...
I'm a legend? Weird! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The climbing is definitely something you have to work out. I remember when I first started I pointed my nose as high as it could go but learned that the speed was more important later. I also tried some silly things like flaps to boost lift but that also just slows you down and only nets you a slight increase over a very short period of time followed by a much slower rate overall.

Something I learned from participating in a few friendly matches of air racing is not to overcontrol the plane too much either. Minimal amounts of control stick movements just to get what you want. Allot of movement very rightly slows you down - which can of course be good if thats the plan.

Be sure to join us online sometime. Different servers for different tastes out there but everything is available on HyperLobby.

stalkervision
08-31-2008, 04:44 PM
Don't give Icefire any ideas and bloat his noggin anymore then it is already. He's already is a legend in his own mind.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WTE_Galway
08-31-2008, 05:29 PM
In real life the p38 turned well but it was still not recommended it mix it with single engine jobs in a turn fight.

Two things that helped the p38 turn ...

1) it had fowler flaps (sometimes called combat flaps not to be confused with "combat flaps" in the game which is just a setting).

Fowler flaps effectively extend the wing area without adding much drag allowing tighter turns without speed loss.

Very few WWII aircraft had Fowler flaps as they were complex expensive and heavy. Using normal flaps (in a 109 for example) in combat is a bad move. However the p38 had Fowler flaps not normal flaps so use them to your advantage.

2) P38 jocks used asymmetrical thrust to tighten their turns. This is tricky in game as we cannot map two throttle levers but can be done. Basically you have the engine on the outer wing running faster than the one on the inside of the turn. This means you turn faster.



If you fly online there is one big disadvantage to the p38. A lot of online players are points *****s with inflated ego's (legends in their own mind). The double points you get downing a twin engined fighter will often mean nearly everybody on the server will go after you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Excerpt from Interview of

CAPTAIN J. J. FOSS, USMC
Executive Officer, VMF-121

in the
Bureau of Aeronautics
26 April 1943



THE P-38

Q. What was your impression of the P-38's?

A. The P-38 is really a good plane as an interceptor, above 20,000 feet. If you get notice that a bogey is coming in, and don't have much time, give it to the P-38's; they can really get up there. If it's above 20,000 feet they make their runs, go on out far enough to make a turn, and come back for another run, When the P-38's were sparring around with me, they would buzz way down below me, take a look, then go up through a hole in the clouds, take a short look around and come back down. They ran all around the sky while I was doing my best just to stay where I was.

Q. Was any attempt made to use them at the limit of their range?

A. They went clear up to Bougainville. They sent P-38's to fly cover on B-17's and on B-24's. There would be Zeros above them and below them would be more Zeros, float bi-planes and float Zeros, but their orders were to stay in formation with the bombers. If any of the enemy fighters made an attack, they'd just pull up, give a short burst, and the enemy fighter would pull right back up out of range. When they failed to do this one day, three of them were shot down. They went down below 20,000 feet to get some "easy meat", (these float bi-planes that can turn on a dime) - went down and tried to dogfight - that was the end of three P-38's

VW-IceFire
08-31-2008, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
Don't give Icefire any ideas and bloat his noggin anymore then it is already. He's already is a legend in his own mind.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LOL! I hope I don't think I'm a legend in my own mind. Its just weird http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Galway
08-31-2008, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Don't give Icefire any ideas and bloat his noggin anymore then it is already. He's already is a legend in his own mind.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LOL! I hope I don't think I'm a legend in my own mind. Its just weird http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I think every one of us that play combat sims have some aspect of that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Otherwise we would be perfectly happy simulating doing routine supply flights, well away from the front lines, in a Dakota all day every day.

steiner562
08-31-2008, 08:44 PM
Online I find you really need a good wingman to get the best from the p-38,or atleasst more so than other aircraft,it can become quite effective regardless of being a target drone for most blue players.

stalkervision
08-31-2008, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Don't give Icefire any ideas and bloat his noggin anymore then it is already. He's already is a legend in his own mind.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LOL! I hope I don't think I'm a legend in my own mind. Its just weird http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I think every one of us that play combat sims have some aspect of that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Otherwise we would be perfectly happy simulating doing routine supply flights, well away from the front lines, in a Dakota all day every day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

mortoma
08-31-2008, 09:52 PM
Best climb speed in P-38 ( all models ) is about 250 to 260Kph. I don't know what that is in MPH or knots off the top of my head.

X32Wright
08-31-2008, 09:56 PM
Flying Zeros would tend a beginner to develop bad habits because that plane forces one to turn more than to climb and dive. Altho the guns on the A6m3 and A6m5b are good enough to kill P-38s, they are at a disadvantage when the P-38 extends and climbs (altho I've sen stupid P-38 pilots that would loop or do vertical climbs like its a 109!). I've killed my share of P-38s in the game and theyre only a threat if flown in pairs that are using energy tactics and have enough alt to spare.

The airbrakes or aka Dive flaps is your best friend in the late P-38s because they make the plabe so much better to fight when dealing with Zeros. The P-38 in the game is no match vs late Russian or German planes.

WOLFMondo
09-01-2008, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by X32Wright:


The airbrakes or aka Dive flaps is your best friend in the late P-38s because they make the plabe so much better to fight when dealing with Zeros. The P-38 in the game is no match vs late Russian or German planes.

Above 20,000ft give me a P38L_late over any German and especially Russian planes. The only threat above 20,000ft is the 109K.

Janus1980
09-01-2008, 08:50 AM
I thought Yak-3 Vk107 was faster than P-38 late at all altitudes and Fw-190 Dora too , but it's true the P-38 is very good up high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
09-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
Best climb speed in P-38 ( all models ) is about 250 to 260Kph. I don't know what that is in MPH or knots off the top of my head.

Figure 100kph = 62mph as close enough, so 150-155mph. EDIT: more like 155-160mph.

Your best climb will maximize your total distance covered both horizontal and vertical, it
usually is not the same as best rate of climb. It also lets you stay closer to maneuver speed.

How hard can you turn or jink a P-38 at 250-260kph as opposed to around 320-340kph and for how
long?

OMK_Hand
09-01-2008, 09:27 AM
Hi Tranie117.

Some simplified numbers:
(RPM number first, then manifold pressure. The game percentages follow each in brackets.)

J and L:
Combat Climb: 3000 (100%) 54" (85%)
Cruise and Climb: 2600 (75%) 44" (60%)
Best climb speed: 154 mph IAS
Economy Cruise: 2300 (55%) 35" (37%)
Best performance at: 25,000'

L late:
Combat Climb: 3000 (100%) 54" (100%)
Cruise and Climb: 2600 (75%) 44" (69%)
Best climb speed: 176 mph IAS
Economy Cruise: 2300 (55%) 35" (41%)
Best performance at: 23,000'


When climbing, set the rpm and manifold pressure then fly at whatever angle gives the desired indicated speed. The higher you go, the less this angle will be.
If you are overheating, open the cowl flaps/radiator and climb at a faster speed, using the same settings.

Also, generally try not to go any faster than the speed indicated by the mark on the air speed gauge. It's easy to overstep this mark in a dive.

X32Wright
09-01-2008, 09:33 AM
maybe we can try that fight sometime WOLFMONDO. I want to see a well flown P-38 in this game fight a G-10 or K-4 C3.

WOLFMondo
09-01-2008, 09:45 AM
Theres plenty way better than I in the P38. I just know how to stay alive in one, at least in theory.

gdfo
09-01-2008, 10:18 AM
So Tranie117, You are looking for gentle advice.

Try this,

And these few precepts in thy memory

Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,

Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.

Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.

T'hose friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,

Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;

But do not dull thy palm with entertainment

Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade. Beware

Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in,

Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.

Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;

Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,

But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;

For the apparel oft proclaims the man;

And they in France of the best rank and station

Are of a most select and generous chief in that.

Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.


Aside from that the P-38 in all game versions makes a great ground attack fighter.
If you are attacking non combat ships the rockets will sink most of those. For combat ships use the 2 500 lb or 2 1000 lb. bombs and the release at the same time. For most situations 50% fuel is sufficient. Keep in mind that the rocket tubes will create drag and the plane will not be as fast, even after you shoot the rockets. Make sure you set a good delay for rockets and bombs or you will blow the tail off the plane.

Keep in mind that the game does not represent the REAL P-38 at all.

Becarefull of dives that are to steep. You can rip the wings of if too fast and too sharp a pullout.

I would encourage you to experiment with the gun convergence on the P-38. Some Players have stated that they get better results from setting both cannon and MG to 1000M in the game.
With that kind of gun power the P-38 makes a good bomber killer.

If you are flying on line try meeting up with some P-38 flyers and 'wing up' with them.

There is a player by the call sign of 'Worky' who sometimes plays on 'WarClouds'.
I acknowlege him as a master of the plane.

and also Brush up your Shakespear.

RAF_OldBuzzard
09-01-2008, 10:09 PM
With the P-38 it's ALL about speed.

Best climb speed in the L Late is 176 MPH as someone already said. If you are extending after a pass, don't go any slower than that. It's better to stay up around 250 or better though. You won't get the same rate of climb, but it puts more distance between you and the bad guys.

As for gun convergence, you definately want to set it at 1000m. With the guns in the nose they are already 'converged', and you get a concentrated zone of destruction at all ranges. If you set the convergence to something like 200m like a lot of folks do with planes like the P-51 and other wing mounted guns, you will actuclly decrease the effectiveness of P-38's weapons.

You will have to be careful of the overmodeled compression. With the L models the dive/recover flaps will allow you to recover. With the J, you can use elevator trim to recover from compression. That's not realistic, but then neither is the way compression is modeled, so it kind of cancels out.