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Wolf52371
03-31-2005, 06:53 PM
Should i upgrade to the VIIC from ym current VIIB? It doesnt seem to give any adavntages, and it seems to be a little worse than the VIIB. Is ther some hidden property that puts it above the VIIB?

Johnny_JG2
03-31-2005, 06:59 PM
I'm keeping my VIIB, and not upgrading.

Our in-game VIICs don't dive any deeper than the VIIBs, and they are slower. I think you might get better AA guns, or conning tower or something like that, but as the war goes on you aren't gonna be sailing around on the surface a whole lot.

I wish there was a compelling reason to "upgrade", but I really don't like the downgrade in speed the VIIC gives.

malkuth
03-31-2005, 07:09 PM
I use to believe this, then I upgraded in 41 to the VIIC. Well let me tell you in VIIC with two engine upgrades can outrun the VIIB easy.

I can hit 20 Knots surface with my C. 8 Knots sumerged. The C gets the upgrades that the B doesn't.

Wolf52371
03-31-2005, 07:12 PM
When are those upgrades available? Its only april of 1940 now.

Lovo_Kasistan
03-31-2005, 07:22 PM
I can also install those upgrades on my VII B. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Those upgrades are only for the Diesels and you can only install one, the other will be removed.

quillan
03-31-2005, 09:34 PM
The only upgrades the VIIC gets that the VIIB doesn't are conning tower upgrades, which controls how many and what type of flak guns can be mounted on it. You can turn a VIIC into a U-Flak. You can't do that with a VIIB, though you can eventually get a second flak gun mount. I stuck with my VIIB, and haven't regretted it yet. In fact, the extra submerged endurance has really helped once or twice in getting away.

Mongoose6T7
04-01-2005, 01:51 AM
My end goal is to afford a type XXI at a cost of 30000 reknown, so I am planning to stick with the VIIB, or at least not change boats until I have 30000 in the "bank".

I'd like to try out a VIIC for the shorter time to dive, and the tower which allows the mounting of 2x light and Ix heavy flack...the defensive firepower of a Type IX.

Wolf52371
04-01-2005, 09:35 AM
Well, ive got 15,000 renown in mid-1940 so 30,000 by early 1944 doesnt seem to unreasonable.

Lovo_Kasistan
04-01-2005, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mongoose6T7:
I'd like to try out a VIIC for the shorter time to dive, and the tower which allows the mounting of 2x light and Ix heavy flack...the defensive firepower of a Type IX. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The last tower allows 3x heavy flaks, without a deckgun of course.

Mmmh, three dual M42s... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Why can't I tell my flakguys to shoot at ships? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Yarrick_
04-01-2005, 09:48 AM
Today, playing in Genuary 1942, in my second career, I felt extremly bored of having a VIIB so I decided to upgrade to the newer VIIC.
After buyning it I discovered that I had recived the second conning tower (that with 2 light flaks) for free! So, after all, it wasn't such a bad idea... THen, suddenly the radar Fumo27 became abailable.
I'm not sure if the radar became available because of the month I had to spent in port to recieve the new sub or because the VIIB was unable to get it, but I don't feel it was a bad idea after all. And I find the VIIC faster than the VIIB too (in the surface, I mean, and without any upgrades).

msxyz
04-01-2005, 10:09 AM
The VIIC were designed to accomodate the bulky electronics of the S-Gerat. The hull was 60cm longer which also affected the fuel carried (5400 more liters). A major redesign of the electrical circuits and the addition of a diesel powered compressor also occurred.

While the enlarged hull didn't affect stability (if anything, it did improve a little) the underwater speed decreased from 8 kts to 7.6 kts. Top surface speed remained about 17 kts

In my opinion, if you want to play an historically accurate campaign (no super mario style upgrades http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ) the VIIB is a slighty better boat for underwater warfare.The VIIC/41 is, however a better boat in many respects and it may be worth the change when it becomes available. Until then, stick to your trusty VIIB

quillan
04-01-2005, 11:43 AM
Yarrick, part of the reason for that is that each sub has a year by year standard equipment list in the config files. If you buy a VIIC in 1944, you'll start with a number of upgrades for free that you wouldn't get in 1940, even if they were available then (like the battery upgrade).

Mongoose6T7
04-01-2005, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lovo_Kasistan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mongoose6T7:
I'd like to try out a VIIC for the shorter time to dive, and the tower which allows the mounting of 2x light and Ix heavy flack...the defensive firepower of a Type IX. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The last tower allows 3x heavy flaks, without a deckgun of course.

Mmmh, three dual M42s... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Why can't I tell my flakguys to shoot at ships? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be fun to re-create a U-Flack, but I find I rely on the deck gun a little too much to give it up. Also, I think the anti-air capabilities in this game are already a little over done to be realistic.

I would like to see the game changed so that you can select by binoculars a surface vessel as a target for flack weapons. I wouldn't mind betting they really were used on occasion against small vessels.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by msxyz:
The VIIC were designed to accomodate the bulky electronics of the S-Gerat. The hull was 60cm longer which also affected the fuel carried (5400 more liters). A major redesign of the electrical circuits and the addition of a diesel powered compressor also occurred.

While the enlarged hull didn't affect stability (if anything, it did improve a little) the underwater speed decreased from 8 kts to 7.6 kts. Top surface speed remained about 17 kts

In my opinion, if you want to play an historically accurate campaign (no super mario style upgrades http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif ) the VIIB is a slighty better boat for underwater warfare.The VIIC/41 is, however a better boat in many respects and it may be worth the change when it becomes available. Until then, stick to your trusty VIIB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you specify why the 41 is worth waiting for? I figured I would be madly saving all my reknown by then for a Type XXI.(sans realism)http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Also, which upgrades, in your opinion, are unrealistic?

msxyz
04-01-2005, 01:04 PM
The type VIIC/41 brought the basic design to the extreme. Due to various manufacturing optimizations and internal layout improvements, up to 11.5 tons were saved. This weight was used to increase the hull thickness (from 18mm to 21mm) allowing a maximum operative depth of 180m rather than 150m for the other VIIs.

Also the VIIC/41 were fitted with a redesigned bow to improve stability during rough weather so often encountered in the northern Atlantic.

Dunno if all of these factors have been simulated into SH3

ExitStrategy
04-01-2005, 05:07 PM
From what I read and see on paper the differences are minimal.

As for flak gunnery it seems like for me if I ever see a plane there is a 90 percent chance or greater that the sea is too rough to use any guns anyhow (even when I scouted the Mediterranean Sea the north Atlantic weather follows me).

Anyhow when is the earliest you can get the XXI? I may try the IXD2 myself just so I can more effectively terrorize the America's and Africa.

Lovo_Kasistan
04-01-2005, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ExitStrategy:
Anyhow when is the earliest you can get the XXI? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
June '44.

blue_76
04-01-2005, 05:18 PM
I noticed that aircraft are real easy to shoot down.. In real life, U-boat captains would crash dive as soon as they spotted an enemy plane, not taking any chances with them. The flak gun was used only as a last resort. In most cases if a U-boat didn't dive on time, it was doomed. I remember on one of my patrols, I shot down 4 airplanes.. this seems a bit unrealistic to me.. so what i do is crash dive if i can, if not i take my chances with the flak gun even though those chances are exaggerated.. maybe the developers thought this would add to the fun factor in the game, even at full real mode they're still too easy to shoot down.

Schepke-U-100
04-01-2005, 05:32 PM
I thought that planes were no problem at all, especially after being bombed several times and they all missed by a fair distance... But then while north of Scapa flow on my way back from a patrol, I was spotted several times by swordfish aircraft, this happened over a period of about 24 hours (game time) and each time they flew away... I thought nothing of it and especially as they fly so slow i was determined to take them on with my AA if in fact they did attack...

Well, all of a sudden about 4 swordfish aircraft attacked me at dawn and pretty much all of their bombs fell close to me, one directly on my stern (leaving visable damage) I also had my AA gunner killed from that explosion. Never again will i underestimate allied air attacks... Hmmm!

ExitStrategy
04-01-2005, 05:45 PM
Yeah the aircraft seem to be getting gradually more effective as the campaign progresses for me. Pretty soon I may be to the point that I'll just avoid air covered areas almost as completely though undecovered areas become more scarce.

I am horrible at identifying the types of planes but quite a few times it seems like a scout finds me then radios back and calls in the heavy hitters. If this is truly happening then it is a nice addition.

It is sorta unfortunate in a way but by being overly cautious with airpower involved, I have much better results than when I am aggressive. Realism I suppose but playing it safe all the time can get dullhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I need some more action I must say no matter how much I like this game I think hunting merchants safely avoiding airpower/destroyers has some severe limits on replayability. Truly it is best to just avoid them when possible. At best you get some meager credit for taking these targets on which doesn't cover the risk involved.

I digress, but I'm ready for a modern sim from these guyshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Maybe an alternate reality WW3 (such as Red Storm Rising novel or what not) simulator where you are a Russian. Then you could be the underdog again and have lots of juicy Western capital ships to hunt.

Mongoose6T7
04-01-2005, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blue_76:
I noticed that aircraft are real easy to shoot down.. In real life, U-boat captains would crash dive as soon as they spotted an enemy plane, not taking any chances with them. The flak gun was used only as a last resort. In most cases if a U-boat didn't dive on time, it was doomed. I remember on one of my patrols, I shot down 4 airplanes.. this seems a bit unrealistic to me.. so what i do is crash dive if i can, if not i take my chances with the flak gun even though those chances are exaggerated.. maybe the developers thought this would add to the fun factor in the game, even at full real mode they're still too easy to shoot down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I must say it is fun to watch the flack open up on aproaching aircraft and bring one down. Makes for some good screen shots too.

It would be nice to have it much tougher depending on the difficulty level the player chooses.

I guess it's just to early to expect a game/sim for all players. What gets me excited, is how good this game should become with development or in future versions.

msxyz
04-01-2005, 11:57 PM
Get the 37mm AA gun as soon as possible. The 20mm were quite uneffective in their role and had the disadvantage of having such a short range that an aircraft would have the chance to drop their bombs before entering the effective range of the gun.

It's an irony that the famous 40mm Bofors widely used on US navy vessels was a german funded project designed to replace the 20mm which showed its limits against the fast, all metal construction planes even before the start of the war. The Luftwaffe adopted a widely improved 20mm, electrically ignited round early in the war with the superb MG151/20; for ground defense various 30mm and 37mm projects were started but, in the end, only a few and a little too late entered service.

JG27_Arklight
04-02-2005, 12:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by malkuth:
I use to believe this, then I upgraded in 41 to the VIIC. Well let me tell you in VIIC with two engine upgrades can outrun the VIIB easy.

I can hit 20 Knots surface with my C. 8 Knots sumerged. The C gets the upgrades that the B doesn't. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So can I in my VIIB with the two engine upgrades.

In fact, I think my VIIB does 21 or 22 knots on the surface, IIRC.

Spending 3000 or whatever extra renown it is for a sub of equal or slower speed? lol

Nah, think I'll pass!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

KiwiVenge
04-02-2005, 12:52 AM
Nothing else to spend renown on ....
Thats why I upgraded lol
It is like money, it burns a hole in my pocket. Still have mega renown left over too.