PDA

View Full Version : which religion



deniz_gulmez
08-12-2006, 01:25 PM
hello everybody.I watched all AC traliers,I saw all AC screenshots but i didn't understand one thing.?f assassins enemies are crusaders,what is assassins religion? Are they are muslim? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

entropy777
08-12-2006, 01:30 PM
<span class="ev_code_GREY">Ismaili (Shia) Muslim</span>

crasco200600
08-12-2006, 06:56 PM
they are muslims (correct me if i'm wrong) but they don't only kill crusaders they kill all the sides which includes the muslims

entropy777
08-12-2006, 07:58 PM
<span class="ev_code_GREY">They don't kill either side, they kill the people who are responsible for making the crusade happen, guards are of no interest, they are merely... Unfortunate casualties of war.</span>

xasspenx
08-14-2006, 07:16 AM
well... Altair is Muslim but what? Shiite or Sunni? And who ever his boss is will control him to kill other Shiite or Sunni Muslims. What kind of Muslim was Saladin?

CastlevaniaX
08-14-2006, 12:30 PM
Hi,

Altair belongs to Assassin's Sect, a part of "Shia" muslims. According to the period of The Third crusade ( 1191 ), His boss is supposed to be Rashid Bin Sinan, the leader of The Assassins in Masyaf's Castle. Saladin is the leader of "Suna" Muslims.

xasspenx
08-15-2006, 06:54 AM
thanks for the info http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Illuminate1992
08-15-2006, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by entropy777:
<span class="ev_code_GREY">They don't kill either side, they kill the people who are responsible for making the crusade happen, guards are of no interest, they are merely... Unfortunate casualties of war.</span>
You sound fit for an assassin lol,
I don't get this whole Shia and Sunny Muslim thing, whats the difference between the two?

FableB
08-15-2006, 01:52 PM
Illuminate: You are simply asking to tell you a story that began 1400 years ago...

entropy777
08-15-2006, 04:13 PM
<span class="ev_code_GREY">Hahahahahahaha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif Marvelous! Sunny muslims! Good one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyway, you could say it's sort of like the Catholic and the Protestant christians... Two sides of the same coin.</span>

FableB
08-15-2006, 04:24 PM
Exactly.

MDS_Geist
08-16-2006, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Illuminate1992:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by entropy777:
<span class="ev_code_GREY">They don't kill either side, they kill the people who are responsible for making the crusade happen, guards are of no interest, they are merely... Unfortunate casualties of war.</span>
You sound fit for an assassin lol,
I don't get this whole Shia and Sunny Muslim thing, whats the difference between the two? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they simply kill anyone who has an opposing viewpoint. Their goal was domination.

The difference between Sunni and Shi'a can be summarized as a fundamental disagreement over whether Muhammad's grandson Ali was his rightful successor or not. It got nastier from there. There is little love lost between the two sects, and in many places in the world they kill each other rather freely.

likeitsme
08-19-2006, 12:29 AM
^Sort of sad, but true...

Just a bit disturbing to know how quickly something as screwed up as politics can interfere with something as divine as religion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

adelx
08-19-2006, 01:44 PM
I did a lot of research in this area because I love history. I have yet to find one scolor who claim that the Hashshashin (Assassin) were Muslims or even Arabs. they definitely with all standards are not Muslims. and by the way, the killed more Muslims then anyone else! in fact, their main enemies were Muslims leaders. they even tried to kill Salah Adeen !

for a fact, they were not Muslims' friends. in fact they worked with crusaders in many of their assassins. interestingly, some sources claim that they were planning to convert to Christian just to align with the crusaders to kill Muslims! So basically, they will do anything to reach their goals.



also, they are not Arab. they are from Iran. in fact, they main capital was 100 K from Tehran, Iran.

Now to answer your question they had no religion what so ever!

anyway, lets wait for the game and see!

terminalShock09
08-19-2006, 02:54 PM
They are in fact Nizari muslims, which is a subsect of the Shia branch. The capital you're talking about is Alamut, which is indeed in Iran. However, they did have another branch at the time of the Third Crusade at the castle of Masyaf in Syria, which would make any recruits there Arabs.

entropy777
08-19-2006, 07:34 PM
<span class="ev_code_GREY">Terminal is correct, you obviously didn't do your research correctly....

Wikipedia, search word Hashshashin, first sentence:

</span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">The Hashshashin (also Hashishin, Hashashiyyin or Assassins) had a militant basis as a religious sect (often referred to as a cult) of Ismaili Muslims from the Nizari sub-sect. They were thought to be active in the 8th to 14th centuries.</span><span class="ev_code_grey">

Have fun with that.</span>

MDS_Geist
08-19-2006, 08:39 PM
adelx - They were Arab, Persian and Kurdish. The majority were Arabs. I have no ideas what scholars you consulted, but they are either incorrect, apologists or revisionists. The attempt to kill Salah ah-Din was due to a proposed truce with the Crusaders. They did not work with the crusaders, and they were Muslims.

CastlevaniaX
08-20-2006, 01:03 PM
Hi,

in Wikipedia you can find this too:


"" Their Muslim contemporaries were extremely suspicious of them; in fact they were described in terms (Batini) The term was used pejoratively to refer to those, especially Ismaili, who distinguished an inner, esoteric level of meaning (bahir) in the Qur'an. This constant religious estrangement would eventually see them go so far as allying with the Occidental Christians against Muslims on a number of occasions. Their connections to mainstream Islam were tangential at best.""

so, they allied with crusaders to kill " Sunna " muslim leaders.

marri1980
08-20-2006, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by MDS_Geist:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Illuminate1992:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by entropy777:
<span class="ev_code_GREY">They don't kill either side, they kill the people who are responsible for making the crusade happen, guards are of no interest, they are merely... Unfortunate casualties of war.</span>
You sound fit for an assassin lol,
I don't get this whole Shia and Sunny Muslim thing, whats the difference between the two? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they simply kill anyone who has an opposing viewpoint. Their goal was domination.

The difference between Sunni and Shi'a can be summarized as a fundamental disagreement over whether Muhammad's grandson Ali was his rightful successor or not. It got nastier from there. There is little love lost between the two sects, and in many places in the world they kill each other rather freely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just to correct this first , Ali is not Mohammad€s grandson, he is his cousin .

since Iam an Arabic Sunny I will be talking about the differences between Sunnah and She€ah later

Regards

adelx
08-20-2006, 06:43 PM
castle of Masyaf in Syria, which would make any recruits there Arabs.


so, because they had a castle in Syria, then they must recruits Arabs! this is totally wrong. it is based in the assumption that Syrian are Arabs! well, my friends, you are a plain wrong! at that time, Arabs were a minorities in Syria and not a majority!

I am very sure that you understand that Arabs are an ethnic group. basically there are two kind of Arabs: Al-Ariba, and Al-Mustaribah. now, each Arab keep his or her surnames as a prove to belonging to this group. for example, my last name is X, which can be traced to a well known tribe named Y which can be traced to Adnan.!

now the issues of Arabs is really long and in fact out of topic. however, I challenge anyone to bring one valid evident that the "The majority [of assassins] were Arabs." it is a challenge and I am very sure no one in the world can bring evident to the table claiming that the majority of assassins were Arabs. in fact, the opposite is correct.




Wikipedia, search word Hashshashin, first sentence



" Wikipedia ," you must be kidding. anyone can write there! I need references! real references not Wikipedia !

and by the way, keep reading the page you quoted. you will find it says, "Their Muslim contemporaries were extremely suspicious of them; in fact they were described in terms (Batini) ." and do you know what the term :batini means? it simply means that they are out of Islam and they don't belong to it!

also keep reading the same source you quoted. it says, "The group transformed the act of murder into a system directed largely against Seljuk Muslim rulers." also it says, "Hasan [the leader of Assassins] set the aim of the Assassins to destroy the power of the Abbasid Caliphate [the Muslim state at that time] by murdering its most powerful members." as you may see, their main enemy was Muslims.

notice that the Wikipedia article has many problems and not 100% correct as many western historian book about the Assassins. very simple problem you will find in many of those books and the Wikipedia article is wrong translation. for example, they call Hasan ibn Sabbah as "The Old Man of the Mountain". this is wrong. the correct translation would be "the Lord of Mountain."



The attempt to kill Salah ah-Din was due to a proposed truce with the Crusaders.


again, plain wrong ! they have a very good reason to kill Salah Al-Din. he destroyed the Fatimis State! and I can give you many references to that Fact! Now instand of that, lets use some logic here. Salah al-din was able to take Egypt from Fatimis on 1169 and he was attempted to murder him on 1176. you also know that the Fatimis state was the only real supporters of Hashshashin. So destroying the Fatimis state was not good for Hashshashin.





They did not work with the crusaders



well, sorry, but this is laughable. they worked a lot with the crusaders! now, it is my turn to prove this to you.

On a paper written by professor abu-Allah bin Abeeh , the former ministry of Justice of Mauritania and currently a professor at King Abd-Alaziz university, to the Islamic Feqa union, he says that one of the reasons the crusaders were able to enter Alsham on the 15th century (Islamic calendar) was the help of the Hashshashin.

In another paper written by Dr. Shafeek Jassr, a professor of history at Almadina University, he state that the crusaders have align in many time with Hashshashin to kill Muslims leaders.

There are many references, but Finally, in the Encyclopedia of modern religion and sects, you will find that one of the Hashshashin was given the position of Damascus' minister of Justice during the crusaders rule! This is another evident that they kept a very close relation with crusaders.

Even wikipedia says "eventually see them go so far as allying with the Occidental Christians against Muslims on a number of occasions"

Now, the references here are countless.


Finally, I challenge anyone to show me that they are Muslims or that they didn't work with crusaders or that they are Arabs. In fact, I challenge anyone to give me a real traceable source that says "the majority [of assassins] were Arabs".


I wish I had the time to write better and more things about the Hashshashin. But, I hope that this is enough.

marri1980
08-20-2006, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Illuminate1992:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by entropy777:
<span class="ev_code_GREY">They don't kill either side, they kill the people who are responsible for making the crusade happen, guards are of no interest, they are merely... Unfortunate casualties of war.</span>
You sound fit for an assassin lol,
I don't get this whole Shia and Sunny Muslim thing, whats the difference between the two? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well first of all, thank u for asking , I am a big fan of Prince of Persia franchise since the old days , I was passing by and this thread really has me to stop , join and posthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and please mind my poor English .

Before I speak ,I am an Arabic Muslim sunny ,
and I really respect all other religions and I will only speak facts and history, nothing personal .

When the prophet Mohammad (peas be upon him) died 1400 years ago two of his close companions Inherited his lead of the Muslim€s community before the third one came , first Abu Baker(ruled for 2 years) , then Omar (10 years ), they were the best two after the prophet Mohammad ,then the problem came after the death of Omar , he didn€t state which one will rule after him , for Abu Baker he stated clearly that Omar is the one that should rule after him and all agreed upon him so there was no problem at all.

After the death of Omar everyone were expecting Ali (prophet cousin ) to be the successor, and yes that what should happen all Muslims believe that there is no doubt that Ali was the best out there after Omar , but that just didn€t happen , well I don€t want to go into details cauz it is a very long story , the most important is that other great companion of the prophet his name is Othman ruled after Omar and again everyone agreed even Ali him self, no doubt about it .

Othman ruled for a couple of years until something happened , well you all know that the Jewish tribes were living there along with the prophet in the same city , and ofcourse they hated everything about Islam, nothing personal (it is a fact) , they even attempted to assassinate the prophet him self once and they did succeed later, prophet Mohammad actually died poisoned by a Jewish women she invited him and some of his companions to a lunch, one of his companion died right away but for him not much of poison got into him, so he died later on, and he stated that the Jewish poison was a cause of his ill.

Any way , Othman was killed by a group of Muslims lead by a Jewish named Abullah Ibn sab€a . this group will form later the she€ah branch of the Muslim community , as you all see some Muslims still have something in their hearts about the matter of Ali and Othman ruling and the Jewish used it to try breaking this community apart , Ibn sab€a started a rebellion against Othman secretly using passions of Ali is greater, he is the cousin of the prophet and the husband of his daughter and the father of his two grandsons (Hasan and Hussain), so many people gathered around him and one night they climbed the castle walls at midnight and killed Othman while he was reading Qur€an .

After this incident , nothing was the same , the whole community went into a real big mess , yes Ali did rule after Othman , but this didn€t settle anything actually, those group which we call she€ah begun to increase in numbers more and more and their believes started to change away of the Real Islam, then they strated to praise Ali into much higher level than he should be praised , and this is a very major sin in Islam, so Ali didn€t set and watch , he went after them and captured some of them , then he burned them , then they said €œwell no one burn with fire except the God of fire €œ , so now Ali is God!,
They also say that arc angel Gabriel did a big mistake that God send him to reveal the message to Ali and he delivered it to Mohammad!!! .

Back to the story , Later on another ruler came to the scene his name is Mo€awyah he is from the same family of Othman , the family of Omaiyah this is the same family that ruled Spain Andalusia for more than 800 years .

Any way fights begun between Ali and Mo€awyah , and the Muslims went into a chaos, which one to go with and who is going to rule Islam , Ali or Mo€awyah .

Well ofcourse Mo€awyah ruled cause the she€ah assassinated Ali later on while he was performing the dawn prayer .

Now the family of Omaiyah ruled Islam , and everything settled down , but Mo€awyah wanted the family of the prophet from his daughter side to submit to him (Ali€s descendant cause Mohammad never had a descendant all of his sons died at a young age) ,
But they refused to do so , so they began following them and killing them which is a real bad thing to happen among Muslims themselves , but it happened anyway, since then each rebellion by the family of the prophet were shutdown and ended by killing more of the prophet€s family members ,until that incident , it was one of the most dramatic incident in the Islamic history , it was the death of AL Hussain Ali€s second son and the most beloved one to the prophet of his sons , he was killed by the head of the sons of Omaiyah, Yazeed the successor of Mo€awyah. The whole Muslim community felt terribly about it they cried in blood because of it, even the troops who killed him. Yes we all blame the sons of Omiayah for that , but that didn€t mean they weren€t Muslims.

Sons of Omiayah continued in killing the Descendant of Ali, and the more killing of them the more passionate the she€ah became cause they still praise Ali and his descendant even they were the ones who killed him .

This great passion towards Ali€s descendant was the essential faith of She€ah especially the incident of Al Hussain, and they blame the whole Muslim€s (sunnah) for the actions of the sons of Omiayah.

Nowadays the she€ah believe in the descendant of Ali as some sort of divines , especially AL Hussain his level is as if he is God to them, they pray to him the perform pilgrims every year to his grave at Iraq , the swear by his name the ask by his name simply they worship him! .

For Sunaah ,they worship just God, and they believe in the descendant of Ali as they are just human, which they love from the bottom of their hearts and respect , and for the sons of Omiayah they were totally wrong and did a very terrible thing , but they were Muslims and they leave their bad deeds to God to judge .

Sorry for this very long post
Regards

FableB
08-21-2006, 04:56 AM
Just something to add,
Before Omar died he formed some kind of council that consist of six I don't remember them all but Ali and Othman were among them...So Omar told them to simply discuss who will lead the Muslims after him. they discussed for three days and they voted for Othman.

MDS_Geist
08-21-2006, 05:09 AM
Something else to add - those "facts" are by and large Islamic mythology. Their historical provenance at this point is at best highly suspect. More to the point, the Sunni and Shi'a have some differences in their historical "facts" as well.

However, we could be getting into some dangerous territory here.

marri1980
08-21-2006, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by FableB:
Just something to add,
Before Omar died he formed some kind of council that consist of six I don't remember them all but Ali and Othman were among them...So Omar told them to simply discuss who will lead the Muslims after him. they discussed for three days and they voted for Othman.

You are quit right , I didn€t want to go deep into details , as far as I know Omar put out six of the prophet€s companions to choose from , Ali, Othman , Abou Obiydah Amer Ibn Uljarr€ah, Abdurrhaman Ibn Aouf , Talhah and Sa€ad Ibn Abe Waqas,
actually the Muslims ended up to choose out of just three of them , (Ali , Othman and Abdurrhaman Ibn Aouf).

Abdurrhaman Ibn Aouf pulled him self out of it and made himself the one to choose out of the remaining Two, everyone agreed , Ibn Aouf started to go out asking and consulting everyone he could , and it turned out that the majority agreed upon Ali first,

but something happened between Ibn Aouf and Ali when he demanded him to rule by the same rules of Abu baker and Omar , and Ali replied € no I will rule by the rules of the Qur€an€, so this disagreement between the two made Ibn Aouf to choose Othman over Ali .

Untimely_demise
08-21-2006, 11:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
I have a crazy guess...maybe we dont know enough of the story to make ANY guess what so ever, i mean for all we know he could be in some kind of murder cult religon where you are veiwed by a god, or gods, as being more holy, the more you killed.

Illuminate1992
08-22-2006, 01:53 PM
Thanks for clearing that up and sorry for miss spelling sunni if that offended anyone

marri1980
08-22-2006, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Illuminate1992:
Thanks for clearing that up and sorry for miss spelling sunni if that offended anyone

ur most welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

by the way

Sun'ah is a whole , and Sunny or Sunni refers to an individual, the same for She€ah and she€ey or she€ei, it is an Arabic thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

deadskies
12-06-2009, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by likeitsme:
^Sort of sad, but true...

Just a bit disturbing to know how quickly something as screwed up as politics can interfere with something as divine as religion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Hah, divinity in religion, that's a good one. Anyone with decent reading comprehension can tell you it's all a bunch of B.S. made up by unintelligent men. They couldn't even get their stories straight going from one gospel to another. Not to mention the fact that according to EVERY religious text EVER, the world ended nearly 2000 years ago. So we're not here right now, and neither is the earth. Either that's it, or somebody was lying to a whole lot of stupid people that indoctrinated their offspring into that stupidity.

That's why I love Assassin's Creed, I get to kill some of the worst liars of the bunch-The Christian Templars

magesupermaster
12-06-2009, 07:00 AM
altair has no religion