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VF-29_Sandman
02-26-2005, 08:51 PM
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/iraqfootage.html

56k beware. clip is 5 megs. now this is what tracer's should look like. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Waldo.Pepper
02-26-2005, 09:14 PM
Gonna say this nicely... ru f ing blind?

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=5851077182

VW-IceFire
02-26-2005, 10:04 PM
Ahh yes, need to show it to the people over there. Yes...amazing shots....tracers DO look like "laser" blasts (which is infact totally wrong, lasers are beams, not distinct pulses).

Anyways, cool beans.

John_Stag
02-26-2005, 10:29 PM
Actually, lasers which were designed with weapons applications in mind do "Pulse"; the vapour caused by the target being zapped was found to degrade performance badly if the beam was just fired constantly. The pause between pulses gives the vapour a chance to disperse.

Hows that for trivia?

marcocomparato
02-26-2005, 11:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John_Stag:
Actually, lasers which were designed with weapons applications in mind do "Pulse"; the vapour caused by the target being zapped was found to degrade performance badly if the beam was just fired constantly. The pause between pulses gives the vapour a chance to disperse.

Hows that for trivia? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

clearly though, you gentlemen are both wrong and obviously lacking in knowledge and proper education on this subject.

now let me school you both...

You are both quoting late season NextGeneration, while Roddenberry clearly <pushes glasses back on nose bridge> created lasers in the first 72 seasons of StarTrek to have long beam lasers that did not pulse.

Now what can be called into question (and im sure this will just slide right over your heads, but here goes anyway) is the argument that Admiral Tarken's DeathStar was ALSO obviously a direct beam weapon as well. Thus the discussion is moot.

Griffon_25th
02-26-2005, 11:26 PM
Imagine the gatling gun against the 109 tee hee.

civildog
02-26-2005, 11:29 PM
Hogwash!

What about the turbolaser emplacements in the Deathstar trenches and towers? They clearly fired rapid pulses (and even needed a rapid cycling cooling system to chill the capacitors down to safe levels).

And the not to mention the pom-pom style pulse lasers on the Millinium Falcon. Those are not beam weapons but rather high-cyclic pulse laser weapons - not steady beam projectors!

Shakthamac
02-26-2005, 11:43 PM
you see... you guys are really looking at the wrong material... sheesh.

if you really want an accurate depection of how lasers work then you have to look at the Gunstar's Deathblossom model. Its true, cuz it defeated both Zur and the Kodan Armada.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000IQW3.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

VF-29_Sandman
02-26-2005, 11:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Griffon_25th:
Imagine the gatling gun against the 109 tee hee. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

can we say....confetti? how about it blazin on a 190 or even a sturmovik? owww, some1's gonna get hurt. put that puppy on a 38, and the 110 would get embarrassed hahahahaha

eddiemac0
02-27-2005, 12:28 AM
LAZORSRZ HACKZXZ NOOOBSORZ!!!!! OMGFPWNED!!!!

ClnlSandersLite
02-27-2005, 12:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Actually, lasers which were designed with weapons applications in mind do "Pulse"; the vapour caused by the target being zapped was found to degrade performance badly if the beam was just fired constantly. The pause between pulses gives the vapour a chance to disperse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think what he means is that lasers, which move at the speed of light, would appear to the human eye to be a straight line from the weapon to impact. Even if it where a short pulse of fire, the human eye would just pick up a beam. Honestly though, in all probability a millitary grade laser would not have a visible beam in order that the location of every man on the field isn't easilly apparent. Equipment would stil see them mind you, just not the naked eye. Kinda like the laser sights for firearms, the beam is not visible but the point of impact is.

John_Stag
02-27-2005, 03:22 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Airborne laser (http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/abl.htm)

Beam me up Scotty...

Eraser_tr
02-27-2005, 07:20 AM
In Star wars,the colorful bolts you see are biproducts of the gas used in the lasers and are harmless, the actual laser is supposed to be invisible and behaves like a normal laser ie a beam.

I wouldn't think laser weapons when we eventually start equiping the military with them wouldn't always be invisible, for the same reasons some bullets use tracers while others don't.

HotelBushranger
02-27-2005, 07:48 AM
Wow, I watched this agai for the second time in a coupla weeks, I think I got the first link off this place as well.

Anyway, thats hard to beleive. Is that wat its really like? Honestly it looks very ... hollywoodised.

Is that really what the gatling guns like?

Unbelieveable....

deathhamster
02-27-2005, 07:56 AM
Having a degree in physics, i have to say you are all wrong, the reason? the so called lasers in star wars and most other sci-fi programs are not actually lasers. lasers are beams of photons which travel at 3.ox10^8 (thats 8 zeros after it) metres per second. In non science terms it takes 8 minutes for light to travel the distance from the sun to earth. the "laser beams" in star wars travel far too slowly to be lasers, and star trek uses "phasers" and not lasers, sorry to be a downer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

reddevil49
02-27-2005, 08:42 AM
To heck with lasers I want four of those in my 190. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EJGr.Ost_chamel
02-27-2005, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-29_Sandman:

put that puppy on a 38, and the 110 would get embarrassed hahahahaha <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only similar weapon that came near to completion during WWII was the german MG213! So in a What-If 1946 scenario the 38 would be on the receiving end of such a gun! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

jarink
02-27-2005, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HotelBushranger: Anyway, thats hard to beleive. Is that wat its _really_ like? Honestly it looks very ... hollywoodised.

Is that really what the gatling guns like?

Unbelieveable.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, yes it is. The gun used in the video is NOT typically used by the Apache. The Apache has a 30mm chain gun which has a single barrel. This gun is, in fact, an M-134 .30 cal minigun. I don't think it's ever been used on Apaches, but they could cerainly carry the 'podded' version. As shown in the video it is mounted on a UH-1, ground and vehicle pintle mounts. Jesse "the body" Ventura also carried and fired one offhand in the movie "Predator". "Ahnold" did it agin in Terminator 2. I remember reading that the only way it was possible for them to do this aws b/c they were firing blanks which have far lower recoil than real ammo.

The real fun is when you realise that only 1 round in 5 is a tracer! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

For more on these incredibly fun weapons:
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/kpm27.htm#M134

VFA195-MaxPower
02-27-2005, 02:56 PM
The clip shows the same 3 5 second clips over and over again. I'm not sure why the title is iraqfootage. The bulk of it is obviously some kind of demonstration... at least, I think that american soldiers don't run around iraq in their helecopters shooting at cars like drunken rednecks.

I also sincerely hope that ALL of this footage is training/demonstration footage. Watching people die to the tunes of the Carmina Burana and Fight Fire with Fire strikes me as tasteless in the extreme.

Here's some stuff I dug up on the minigun a while back. I think I might have more resources on firearms than I ought to.


regarding miniguns carried by foot soldiers (http://world.guns.ru/machine/minigun-e.htm)

>>>>>
M-134

weight(unloaded, unpowered): 18.8 kg
peak recoil force: 120 kg

In the year 1987 the movie "Predator" (starring A. Schwarznegger) hit the screens. One of the most impressive scenes was the one where the US Commandos, led by "Dutch" (Schwarznegger), attempted to fight back the alien Predator. One of Commandos was armed with the distinctive weapon, a 6-barreled rotary Minigun, fed from backpack ammo box. This gave the impression that the Miniguns can be used for infantry support. It must be noted, that in this movie a special, blank firing version of the Minigun was sued. The electric motor was powered via cable, hidden in the actor's pants, and the actor had to carry bulletproof vest and protective mask to avoid injuries from the fast and violently ejecting empty cases. Had this gun being fired using real ammunition, the actor would ended lying on his back, being forced off the legs by the violent recoil. The "backpack" ammo capacity, also, could be worth only several seconds of fire. lets calculate: 2 000 rounds of 5.56mm ammo will weight about 25 kg (55 lbs); 2 000 rounds of 7.62mm will weight about 2 times more, making such load almost impossible to carry on foots. yet this load of ammo will worth only 20 or so seconds of fire. Add some powerful batteries to power electrical drive of about 4KWt (4+ horse-power), and the bulk of the gun itself, and you'll see that even the strongest man won't be able to carry this load, less to fire it with any chance to hit, due to extremely powerful recoil.
>>>>>

The recoil is powerful enough to carry the gun itself and the operator (without battery or ammo) and fly him through the air like a bullet propelled rocket.

HangerQueen
02-28-2005, 02:04 AM
I remember reading that the lasers in Star Wars were actually plasma weapons. But who cares?

fordfan25
02-28-2005, 02:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marcocomparato:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John_Stag:
Actually, lasers which were designed with weapons applications in mind do "Pulse"; the vapour caused by the target being zapped was found to degrade performance badly if the beam was just fired constantly. The pause between pulses gives the vapour a chance to disperse.

Hows that for trivia? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

clearly though, you gentlemen are both wrong and obviously lacking in knowledge and proper education on this subject.

now let me school you both...

You are both quoting late season NextGeneration, while Roddenberry clearly <pushes glasses back on nose bridge> created lasers in the first 72 seasons of StarTrek to have long beam lasers that did not pulse.

Now what can be called into question (and im sure this will just slide right over your heads, but here goes anyway) is the argument that Admiral Tarken's DeathStar was ALSO obviously a direct beam weapon as well. Thus the discussion is moot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


but the beams in ST are phasers not lasers. big defernce.

fordfan25
02-28-2005, 02:25 AM
im going to have to get one of those for deer hunting lol.

Badsight.
02-28-2005, 02:50 AM
that Huges 500 carrying those 2 pod mini-guns had insane firing rate

was it firing mainly tracers ? because it looked like a staged run for a demo video shoot


.


6000 rounds / minute is 60 bullets leaving the gun evey second

im guessing that its the smaller caliber mini-guns that are capable of firing that fast , like the .50 cal versions , because a 20mm HE or even worse , a 30mm HE round being fired that fast with be terrifying

no wonder the GAU is a true tank killer

VF-29_Sandman
02-28-2005, 05:41 AM
apache's are fitted with a single barrel 30mm chain gun which is correct. the mini gun in the video is a 20mm. a-10's carry a 30mm packing depleted uranium ap shells. but even a 20mm carrying a/p shells at the rate of fire that gun has, it would obliterate practically anything. have no idea why the vid was sayin it was an apache, when any1 that knows their choppers can clearly see its a vietnam vintage huey. even the cobra doesnt carry a mini gun with that many barrels. would carry a 4 barrel mini-gun in a 20mm config.
this gun would typically be found on an ac-130 gunship. first used in vietnam, it was 'charlie's' worst nightmare. we called it 'puff, the magic dragon'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

ClnlSandersLite
02-28-2005, 06:19 AM
Something about that clip is that the tracers are alot longer than irl in most of the shots because they tended to streak them across the camera. Shorten them some and dim them a little and you'll have what they look like irl. Remember, there are limitations in a film caused purely by the basic way a camera works.


deathhamster: the speed thing is exactly what i'm talking about. Lasers are also unlikely to make any sound except for the capacitors.
badsight:
6000rpm/60seconds is 100rps, not 60.


VF-29_Sandman:
That was not a 20mm, it was a .30 cal (7.62mm nato). Every scene in that demo, which had Dillon Aero convieniently placed at the end of it, was of the M134.
http://dillonaero.com/layout1/page/template/p.cfm?maj=1&min=0&

Also, the cobra's weapon is three barrels, not 4.
http://www.rotorhead.org/military/ah1.asp]

You are however right about that movie not having squat to do with the apache. It also didn't have squat to do with iraq. It was an advertisement.

VF-29_Sandman
02-28-2005, 06:21 AM
mebby they oughta be sued for 'misrepresentation'...in claiming it was showing combat footage of an apache, and it's a huey gunner bein a redneck ROTFL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

civildog
02-28-2005, 09:15 AM
Actually powerful enough lasers do make a loud snap when they go off. It's not from the capacitor discharge, but the laser tunnelling effect through the atmosphere. It's the sound of air refilling the vaccuum the laser created in the air.

quiet_man
02-28-2005, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-29_Sandman:
apache's are fitted with a single barrel 30mm chain gun which is correct. the mini gun in the video is a 20mm. a-10's carry a 30mm packing depleted uranium ap shells. but even a 20mm carrying a/p shells at the rate of fire that gun has, it would obliterate practically anything. have no idea why the vid was sayin it was an apache, when any1 that knows their choppers can clearly see its a vietnam vintage huey. even the cobra doesnt carry a mini gun with that many barrels. would carry a 4 barrel mini-gun in a 20mm config.
this gun would typically be found on an ac-130 gunship. first used in vietnam, it was 'charlie's' worst nightmare. we called it 'puff, the magic dragon'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

20mm is the Vulcan Gatling gun, that would rip the gunner away and most probably also the Huey

quiet_man

quiet_man
02-28-2005, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by reddevil49:
To heck with lasers I want four of those in my 190. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure about this, lots of rounds but still "light" MG, not good against even "light" armored targets

the WWII guns were pretty good, some of them still used today

quiet_man

Yimmy
02-28-2005, 02:55 PM
The Cobra gunship at one point did not have the 3 barreled 20mm cannon, but had two 6 barreled .308 mini-guns in a small turret under the nose.

jarink
02-28-2005, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yimmy:
The Cobra gunship at one point did not have the 3 barreled 20mm cannon, but had two 6 barreled .308 mini-guns in a small turret under the nose. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is correct! It was called the M28 Armament System and could mount either two M-134 Miniguns, two M-129 40mm grenade launchers or one of each. The most typcial arrangement was the combo.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/cpm28.htm#M28
http://www.aircav.com/cobra/ahgal08/ah1s-004.html]Picture (http://www.aircav.com/cobra/ahgal08/ah1s-004.html)

It was later replaced by the M97 system which most often used a modified M61 20mm Gatling Gun; having only 3 barrels instead of 6, shorter barrels and a reduced rate of rotation/fire.
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/ah-1f-12.jpg

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-01-2005, 06:03 AM
There is little that can beat the Russian Pe-8 with the 5000Kg bomb http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yimmy
03-01-2005, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
There is little that can beat the Russian Pe-8 with the 5000Kg bomb http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The B36, designed at a time when nuclear weaponry was in its infancy, had a huge conventional bomb designed for it as a backup option. I can't remember exactly how big it was, but 36,000 pounds springs to mind.

WB_Outlaw
03-01-2005, 11:44 AM
The Star Wars light infantry weapons are blasters, not lasers or plasma beamers. Particle acceleration pure and simple. The laser is there only to provide a near atmosphere free tunnel for the particles. At least, that's how I think of it.

If they are powerful enough, lasers also make noise when they hit a target. There is a demo video around of a light Al(I think) plate being lifted and suspended in the air by a pulsed laser. Each pulse resulted in a very loud and sharp impact caused by the ablation of the Al. The purpose was to demonstrate the concept of ground based laser propulsion for space vehicles.

-Outlaw.

John_Stag
03-01-2005, 12:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by quiet_man:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-29_Sandman:
apache's are fitted with a single barrel 30mm chain gun which is correct. the mini gun in the video is a 20mm. a-10's carry a 30mm packing depleted uranium ap shells. but even a 20mm carrying a/p shells at the rate of fire that gun has, it would obliterate practically anything. have no idea why the vid was sayin it was an apache, when any1 that knows their choppers can clearly see its a vietnam vintage huey. even the cobra doesnt carry a mini gun with that many barrels. would carry a 4 barrel mini-gun in a 20mm config.
this gun would typically be found on an ac-130 gunship. first used in vietnam, it was 'charlie's' worst nightmare. we called it 'puff, the magic dragon'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

20mm is the Vulcan Gatling gun, that would rip the gunner away and most probably also the Huey

quiet_man <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the 20mm carried by the post-Vietnam Cobras only has three barrels.

Ah, I see someone alreaqdy got there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

John_Stag
03-01-2005, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yimmy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
There is little that can beat the Russian Pe-8 with the 5000Kg bomb http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The B36, designed at a time when nuclear weaponry was in its infancy, had a huge conventional bomb designed for it as a backup option. I can't remember exactly how big it was, but 36,000 pounds springs to mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lancaster?

Grand Slam weighs in at 22,000lb; exactly 10,000kg.

DuxCorvan
03-01-2005, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
The Star Wars light infantry weapons are blasters, not lasers or plasma beamers. Particle acceleration pure and simple. The laser is there only to provide a near atmosphere free tunnel for the particles. At least, that's how I think of it.

If they are powerful enough, lasers also make noise when they hit a target. There is a demo video around of a light Al(I think) plate being lifted and suspended in the air by a pulsed laser. Each pulse resulted in a very loud and sharp impact caused by the ablation of the Al. The purpose was to demonstrate the concept of ground based laser propulsion for space vehicles.

-Outlaw. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naaay. Have you ever seen a Spaniard sneezing? It's obvious that somehow Star Wars civilizations have developed and installed synthetic Spanish noses in their weapons. Red-coloured Rebel beams are due to less advanced technology, which produces noses with feebler inner veins. The original sound was something like 'Atchooooo-atchooooo-snifff!!!' but was later substituted in the soundtrack.

VF-29_Sandman
03-02-2005, 07:55 AM
a guy i work with was in the nam...and he said that pilots of 'puff' reported that when all the guns on that bird opened up, u'd feel the force of it in the rudder's. and even the mini-guns would be felt. btw, he also said that they could spray an area of a football field from stem to stern in under a minute with just the mini's....every square inch of it. owwwwwwwww now that's what i'd call.....airfield smackdown.

Owlsphone
03-02-2005, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
Actually powerful enough lasers do make a loud snap when they go off. It's not from the capacitor discharge, but the laser tunnelling effect through the atmosphere. It's the sound of air refilling the vaccuum the laser created in the air. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is the same as...lightning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DuxCorvan
03-02-2005, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Owlsphone:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
Actually powerful enough lasers do make a loud snap when they go off. It's not from the capacitor discharge, but the laser tunnelling effect through the atmosphere. It's the sound of air refilling the vaccuum the laser created in the air. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is the same as...lightning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

'Lightning' is the cause. The sound is 'thunder'. Aaaah... the young... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif