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View Full Version : P51D.. rear view mirrors or warning radar?



tagert
02-01-2004, 12:43 PM
I would like to see the rear-view mirros added to the P51's... or the warning radar system used on late P51's... Either would be fine by me, the addition of a radar would be cool, but, in light of the lack of any radar system modeled in IL2 I think the mirrors would be easer to do?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the mighty eighth war manual pg 238
A tail warning search radar for fighter and reconnaissance aircraft, AN/APG-13 gave visual and audible warning to a pilot of the approach of another aircraft from the rear within some four miles. rial installations were made in autumn 1944 on reconnaissance aircraft. A fighter installation programme entailing antennas placed each side of the fin, commenced in March 1945 with the 355th, 4th and 361st Groups in that order. It was also installed in night flying B-17s and B-24s of 482nd Group. Incorporated on production P-51Ds from blocks 20-NT and 25-NA, the first of these were received in March 1945. AN/APS-13 was similar to the British tail warning device called Monica and in RAF use was know as Monica MKVII<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TAGERT

tagert
02-01-2004, 12:43 PM
I would like to see the rear-view mirros added to the P51's... or the warning radar system used on late P51's... Either would be fine by me, the addition of a radar would be cool, but, in light of the lack of any radar system modeled in IL2 I think the mirrors would be easer to do?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the mighty eighth war manual pg 238
A tail warning search radar for fighter and reconnaissance aircraft, AN/APG-13 gave visual and audible warning to a pilot of the approach of another aircraft from the rear within some four miles. rial installations were made in autumn 1944 on reconnaissance aircraft. A fighter installation programme entailing antennas placed each side of the fin, commenced in March 1945 with the 355th, 4th and 361st Groups in that order. It was also installed in night flying B-17s and B-24s of 482nd Group. Incorporated on production P-51Ds from blocks 20-NT and 25-NA, the first of these were received in March 1945. AN/APS-13 was similar to the British tail warning device called Monica and in RAF use was know as Monica MKVII<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TAGERT

LeadSpitter_
02-01-2004, 01:32 PM
the majority of p51ds used mirrors the 2 or one center mirror taken off p47s, its funny how the aircraft with the best visabilty you cant see your vertical stabilizer thats why it was bubbled left and right, but you can in the yaks.

us planes will always be dogged in this sim, nothing we can do about it

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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LeadSpitter_
02-01-2004, 01:35 PM
the majority of p51ds used mirrors the 2 or one center mirror taken off p47s, its funny how the aircraft with the best visabilty you cant see your vertical stabilizer thats why it was bubbled left and right to look past the armored plate, but you can in the yaks.

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
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MiloMorai
02-01-2004, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
the majority of p51ds used mirrors the 2 or one center mirror taken off p47s, its funny how the aircraft with the best visabilty you cant see your vertical stabilizer thats why it was bubbled left and right, but you can in the yaks.

us planes will always be dogged in this sim, nothing we can do about it
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know why you say that, for looking through the S/S InAction book on the P-51 most of the pics of the Ds have no mirror.

You know that American data is manufacturer's advertizing data. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif



Long live the Horse Clans.

tagert
02-01-2004, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
I don't know why you say that, for looking through the S/S InAction book on the P-51 most of the pics of the Ds have no mirror.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most.. Well one thing for sure, I can find more pictures of P51 with mirrors then 109K's with flettner tabs on the ailerons! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But seriosly.. I can also find P47's without mirrors.. so just wondering what Oleg's reasoning was... But in light of the warning radar.. I figured they would rather give us mirrors then that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MiloMorai:
You know that American data is manufacturer's advertizing data.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Some, not all, alot of it is based off the NACA data.. ie non-manufacturers.

TAGERT

MiloMorai
02-01-2004, 03:01 PM
Tag see your PT(re. 162).



Long live the Horse Clans.

Bearcat99
02-01-2004, 07:34 PM
The P-47s had that too.

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ajafoofoo
02-02-2004, 12:11 AM
Edit: ajafoofoo, check your private topics (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)

[This message was edited by Tully__ on Mon February 02 2004 at 03:04 AM.]

Korolov
02-02-2004, 12:19 AM
Well the thing is that the pony and the Jug have that headrest in the back, while the yak only has that sissy armored glass.

Those headrests have saved my life on multiple occasions, and that armored glass on the Yak is easily penetrated.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

KIMURA
02-02-2004, 04:23 AM
The mirrors were absolutely not standard and added by ground crews, IF the pilot demand for them. IIRC the round shaped mirrors were British origin and originally belonged to Spits.

Aaron_GT
02-02-2004, 05:54 AM
The problem isn't lack of mirrors, so
much as lack of lean-with-turn like
you get in Warbirds 3 (and there the
motion is also G limited). G limited
lean-and-turn for BoB would be a welcome
addition.

tagert
02-03-2004, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by KIMURA:
The mirrors were absolutely not standard and added by ground crews, IF the pilot demand for them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As where alot of *things*. Field mods were very common.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by KIMURA:
IIRC the round shaped mirrors were British origin and originally belonged to Spits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Figured as much, just didnt have any documents indicating that.. as a mater of fact neither did you! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Where did you get your info?

TAGERT

KIMURA
02-03-2004, 02:48 PM
Tagert, you brought me in bad affliction, because I could had remember that but forgot where I've read that. Here a scan out of Squadron/Signal "Walk Around P-51D". Read the text below the pic....................

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/a-z/kimura-hei/spit_mir.jpg

DONB3397
02-03-2004, 03:08 PM
I have videos and pictures showing P-51Ds with the bullet-shaped mirrors above the canopy, but they don't seem to be standard. The one in Kimura's post seems pretty tidy compared to the ones I've seen.

I wonder what impact they had on drag, and I wonder if they were really effective. In a Bf109 documentary this morning, I heard Guenter Rall say they put a mirror in his a/c, but the vibration was so bad it was useless.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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tagert
02-03-2004, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KIMURA:
Tagert, you brought me in bad affliction, because I could had remember that but forgot where I've read that. Here a scan out of Squadron/Signal "Walk Around P-51D". Read the text below the pic....................

http://mypage.bluewin.ch/a-z/kimura-hei/spit_mir.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>cool picture!! Thanks for the reference! It's a keeper!

TAGERT

tagert
02-03-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
I have videos and pictures showing P-51Ds with the bullet-shaped mirrors above the canopy, but they don't seem to be standard. The one in Kimura's post seems pretty tidy compared to the ones I've seen.

I wonder what impact they had on drag, and I wonder if they were really effective. In a Bf109 documentary this morning, I heard Guenter Rall say they put a mirror in his a/c, but the vibration was so bad it was useless.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There seems to be a few styles

Here is one that is on the INSIDE of the canopy, thus no drag
http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/collins1.jpg

And here is one that is on the ouside.. not the plexie glass shaped to reduce drag.. This is the style I usally see.. if any.

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/dusty2.jpg

Most pic's of late P51 dont have mirrors.. the view was so good you really didnt need them.. in real life.. but due to the limitaions of the sim.. ie we can not lean left and right to look around the armor plate.. I think the addition of the mirror would make up for that and represent the late P51 views better

TAGERT

DONB3397
02-03-2004, 05:40 PM
Tagert, these pictures answer the question. Thanks.

I heard Bud Mahurin say once that the most important physical characteristic a pilot could have...was a rubber neck. In FB, it may be a hi-res screen and TIR2 are more important than a rubber neck.

FB mirrors on the P-40/P-47/Hurri work well on my rig, but I find that I loose them when I turn on the gunsight (shift+F2).

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
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